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Xareth Tovan
New Eden Rock Doctors
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:42:00 - [481]
 

Originally by: William Caldon
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:39:51
Originally by: Ralph42nd
lots of rage, rage, I need to get out and see sunshine, etc


Wow, lots of rage there. You realize that trolling is against CCP's forum policy right? Thus they are in the right. Go on, keep being righteous...your not.

Also, I've noticed that 90% of all this feedback is basically trolling from Goons. Thus 90% is actually worthless. Go figure. Oh and keep flaming, it totally impresses your alliance, your corp and yourself. (In other words, you could be mature, but your not, thus making it hard for people like CCP and myself to take you seriously) Also, CCP has fully explained their actions. Why can't you figure that out?

@Minto: you have no idea what I do.


what you have failed to notice is the fact that goons, AAA, IT are all agreeing. that alone speaks volumes

Ice Fist
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:43:00 - [482]
 

Originally by: William Caldon
Originally by: Ralph42nd
lots of rage, rage, I need to get out and see sunshine, etc


Wow, lots of rage there. You realize that trolling is against CCP's forum policy right? Thus they are in the right. Go on, keep being righteous...your not.

Also, I've noticed that 90% of all this feedback is basically trolling from Goons. Thus 90% is actually worthless. Go figure. Oh and keep flaming, it totally impresses your alliance, your corp and yourself. (In other words, you could be mature, but your not, thus making it hard for people like CCP and myself to take you seriously) Also, CCP has fully explained their actions. Why can't you figure that out?


Quoting someone that isn't ever going to set foot in nullsec and probably won't ever fly a capital ship. Yeah there are alot of us Goons here, but if you noticed we have IT, AAA, Bobby Atlas of all people trolling and agreeing along with us. And it doesn't matter that they explained their reasons, its that their reasons suck. Damn, everytime a politician explains their reasons do you bite and go "ok, do what you want" then too? What is so difficult for you nose-bleeding empire carebears to understand? They promised us gold and are paying us in hopes and dreams. What is NOT to be upset about in our position?

William Caldon
Caldari
Golden Cross Enterprises
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:44:00 - [483]
 

Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:46:55
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:45:40
"During the development of Dominion we have been looking at the whole of capital ship warfare and in particular the Motherships--reviewing their place on the battlefield and our goals for them as designers. We're unhappy with the role they currently occupy in practice and after much deliberation and testing we aren't happier with the direction we were taking them as anti-capital Supercarriers. In too short a time we've redesigned a ship class that doesn't have a unique enough role or serve a diverse enough purpose. These are massive ships that require amazing amounts resources to produce. They are part of the power equation of EVE's unique and important Alliance Warfare. As designers we need to do is take a few steps back, deliberate more (with your help), go through more testing (also with your help) and really perfect the Mothership redesign."

There. Underlined the important parts. That explains all your questions, just not in the way you want.

z0186
Amarr
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:45:00 - [484]
 

I think we all just lost at EVE.
Welp.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:46:00 - [485]
 

but torps are good, you just might need a few painters

....guys?

Tommy Blue
Black Lance
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:46:00 - [486]
 

Edited by: Tommy Blue on 20/11/2009 02:50:19
Quote:
Abathur comes out with the original Mothership changes proposed for Dominion. As far as I am aware, everyone was happy with the preliminary numbers, and player testing didn't reveal any particularly horrific flaws.

Suddenly, the entire suite of changes was thrown out the window for a set that completely changed the mothership mechanic in a way that ticked off the majority of New Eden. Amidst the backlash, now all of the Mothership/Supercarrier changes have been thrown out the window.

What happened?

What was wrong with the first version of Supercarriers?


So you didn't "like" the first iteration of the SuperCarrier changes? We did! The original SuperCarrier changes were one of the only good things about dominion. Now dominion is...meh...not the awsomesauce that it was supposed to be.

Vanija
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:46:00 - [487]
 

Yet everyone that would actually use motherships is excited about the changes.

White Aero
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:47:00 - [488]
 

This quote from a corp mate pretty much sums this idea up.....

[02:45:55] Captain BushDog > on that note. i will log off and start drinking more


Vanija
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:48:00 - [489]
 

Get on stickam and we can drink together.

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:48:00 - [490]
 

Edited by: Terianna Eri on 20/11/2009 03:00:17
Originally by: William Caldon
Also, I've noticed that 90% of all this feedback is basically trolling from Goons. Thus 90% is actually worthless.

Did you not notice that the posts that goons are making are requesting the same thing that everyone else is?
Originally by: William Caldon
Also, CCP has fully explained their actions.

LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing
No. Neutral


RELEASE ABATHUR FROM BONDAGE

EDIT: Hey cool, this post used to be halfway down on page 20

Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:48:00 - [491]
 

Originally by: William Caldon
"During the development of Dominion we have been looking at the whole of capital ship warfare and in particular the Motherships--reviewing their place on the battlefield and our goals for them as designers. We're unhappy with the role they currently occupy in practice and after much deliberation and testing we aren't happier with the direction we were taking them as anti-capital Supercarriers. In too short a time we've redesigned a ship class that doesn't have a unique enough role or serve a diverse enough purpose. These are massive ships that require amazing amounts resources to produce. They are part of the power equation of EVE's unique and important Alliance Warfare. As designers we need to do is take a few steps back, deliberate more (with your help), go through more testing (also with your help) and really perfect the Mothership redesign."

There. Underlined the important parts. That explains all your questions, just not in the way you want.


Do you regularly accept the game design acumen of someone who didn't know what ships could and couldn't be target painted, and didn't know capital ships fight at close range? Seems to me, that if he doesn't know those basic things, then he isn't qualified to be giving us reasons as to why he's decided to go back on months of discussion and play testing.

Answer me this: Why would any of us now want to "help" him re-design motherships? So more of our time can be wasted on ideas CCP will implement, test, get a massive amount of positive feedback from, then back out of for, at best, shaky reasons that are barely explained, leaving an 18bn ISK ship worthless for another six months?

Valanan
Caldari
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:49:00 - [492]
 

Edited by: Valanan on 20/11/2009 02:50:44
Well, I was running a second account to train a Cap Alt guess I don't need to anymore.

Minto Took
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:49:00 - [493]
 

Originally by: William Caldon
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:46:55
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:45:40
"During the development of Dominion we have been looking at the whole of capital ship warfare and in particular the Motherships--reviewing their place on the battlefield and our goals for them as designers. We're unhappy with the role they currently occupy in practice and after much deliberation and testing we aren't happier with the direction we were taking them as anti-capital Supercarriers. In too short a time we've redesigned a ship class that doesn't have a unique enough role or serve a diverse enough purpose. These are massive ships that require amazing amounts resources to produce. They are part of the power equation of EVE's unique and important Alliance Warfare. As designers we need to do is take a few steps back, deliberate more (with your help), go through more testing (also with your help) and really perfect the Mothership redesign."

There. Underlined the important parts. That explains all your questions, just not in the way you want.


Someone not in a 0.0 alliance tries to comment about ships used in 0.0 alliances.

lol

Gouglash
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:51:00 - [494]
 

I just want to let you know that I just came back to this game after a year off. I left because your ridiculous company reimbursed a titan due to "server logs showed..." in a fight where we dropped about 400 people onto it, and the server didn't even crash. I'm sure that people not even familiar with this incident can guess what alliance that titan belonged to.

So I finally got over it, and decided to give the game a chance, and I'm only a month back and I have to admit that this one employee of yours, Nozh, is quite possibly even more ridiculous than whatever dolt reimbursed that titan.

You set a high bar, CCP. I thought you'd never be able to top it, but you did.

Congratulations.

Slayton Ford
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:52:00 - [495]
 

Nohz should be fixing AFs, not caps. At least then his changes won't cost the player base a significant amount of isk.

It seems CCP wants a ship thats a carrier but better but not as good as a Mom. Fine. Create a supercarrier. Base it off a carrier hull, give it 2x the HP of a carrier, let it use up to 15 drones/fighterbombers/etc. No ewar immunity, let it dock, let it cost ~5-6b. Its simple and could be done in a day. Keep the mom the same except give it 5x the HP of a carrier and can use up to 20 fighterbombers/drones/etc. Its still a red-headed-stepchild but it isn't instapoppped now.

The dread changes show that there was no thought or intelligence involved. Unless close range is 10k. Also, you guys finally fixed Nag and now the nerf. Yea, Nerf minmatar is the CCP rule, I guess they couldn't find another minmatar ship to nerf this patch anyways.

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:55:00 - [496]
 

I was having a chat with a goon director who shall remain nameless, and they pointed out to me an issue which I think we should consider in a sober light.

At fanfest, CCP made a big production about how their new corporate rallying cry for this year was 'Excellence'. They showed videos and even had that delightful little rap-rock "HTFU" thing proclaiming their solidarity as a company and the quality of their work.

Does someone who does not comprehend basic aspects of capital warfare - or even ewar mechanics - being in charge of the capital dev portfolio represent CCP's 'Excellence'?

As much as I'd like to simply post lil dude and talk about how wonderful - or shall I say 'excellent' CCP Abathurs changes were - how delightful it was to see a transparent, two-way feedback process between devs and players on Sisi - this blog forces the question.

Where's the excellence?

Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Nihil-Obstat
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:56:00 - [497]
 

Originally by: William Caldon
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:46:55
Edited by: William Caldon on 20/11/2009 02:45:40
"During the development of Dominion we have been looking at the whole of capital ship warfare and in particular the Motherships--reviewing their place on the battlefield and our goals for them as designers. We're unhappy with the role they currently occupy in practice and after much deliberation and testing we aren't happier with the direction we were taking them as anti-capital Supercarriers. In too short a time we've redesigned a ship class that doesn't have a unique enough role or serve a diverse enough purpose. These are massive ships that require amazing amounts resources to produce. They are part of the power equation of EVE's unique and important Alliance Warfare. As designers we need to do is take a few steps back, deliberate more (with your help), go through more testing (also with your help) and really perfect the Mothership redesign."

There. Underlined the important parts. That explains all your questions, just not in the way you want.

Hey there empire buddy... guess what? They proposed a new role for these ships. They seemed good, and were balanced. People generally liked them.

Then something happened.

Abathur's ideas were scrapped. This guy Nozh came in - someone who doesn't even know how simple mechanics work/do not work with capital ships. He puked out some ideas, and people were like WTF? Then he came back later and said "okay so that won't work, so lets try this instead". And that had an even worse reaction.

Now, instead of going back to a set of ideas THAT WERE TESTED AND ACCEPTED AS FINE... CCP's response is "**** it, we'll do NOTHING instead".

Do you see the problem with any of this?

No, of course you don't. You never leave empire.

And obviously, some of the people WORKING on this game don't actually PLAY it.

disposable tradealt
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:56:00 - [498]
 

Originally by: Slayton Ford
Yea, Nerf minmatar is the CCP rule, I guess they couldn't find another minmatar ship to nerf this patch anyways.


They already nerfed all the good ones anyway.

WrathOfOprah
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:57:00 - [499]
 

Originally by: Gouglash
I just want to let you know that I just came back to this game after a year off. I left because your ridiculous company reimbursed a titan due to "server logs showed..." in a fight where we dropped about 400 people onto it, and the server didn't even crash. I'm sure that people not even familiar with this incident can guess what alliance that titan belonged to.




This story is hard to believe because we all know that CCP's logs never show anything.

Johndalar
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:57:00 - [500]
 

I want to be a fly on the wall when its morning in iceland and the boss sees this. Heads are going to rollTwisted Evil

And for good reason, you fail to communicate to your customers and now the hand that feeds you is biting back.

If there is a logical explanation for the past two weeks I would love to hear it but until you give us the "feedback" we need I am with the mob. I Want Heads!

razzo
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:57:00 - [501]
 

Originally by: Slayton Ford
Nohz should be fixing AFs, not caps. At least then his changes won't cost the player base a significant amount of isk.

It seems CCP wants a ship thats a carrier but better but not as good as a Mom. Fine. Create a supercarrier. Base it off a carrier hull, give it 2x the HP of a carrier, let it use up to 15 drones/fighterbombers/etc. No ewar immunity, let it dock, let it cost ~5-6b. Its simple and could be done in a day. Keep the mom the same except give it 5x the HP of a carrier and can use up to 20 fighterbombers/drones/etc. Its still a red-headed-stepchild but it isn't instapoppped now.

The dread changes show that there was no thought or intelligence involved. Unless close range is 10k. Also, you guys finally fixed Nag and now the nerf. Yea, Nerf minmatar is the CCP rule, I guess they couldn't find another minmatar ship to nerf this patch anyways.


//Signed//

And you should ask CCP if you cant replace Nozh.
Looks like you would do a better job just from that post.

Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Frontier Venture
Posted - 2009.11.20 02:58:00 - [502]
 

Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 20/11/2009 03:01:05
Try me. Let me guess, that would be someone who holds sov, because anyone else who doesn't hold sov: "DOESN'T UNDERSTAND OUR PAIN!!!". (and if that isn't elitist, I don't know what is...) While I sympathize with those who fly Motherships, wouldn't you rather that CCP release quality products? Considering, I might add, these quality products are free. Take a chill pill you guys, geez....you make this one dev blog sound like the entire expansion is ruined. While the Target painting comment was a bit whacked, I'll agree, I think your blowing it out of proportion.

So tl;dr: chilllllllllllll.


Did I mention I brought a flame-proof suit?

Hah, not going to give quoters the pleasure...

Sertan Deras
Gallente
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 03:00:00 - [503]
 

Guys guys, the person who is in control of the most expensive ships in the game doesn't understand basic game mechanics. It's cool though, chillllllll.

Hratli Smirks
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 03:00:00 - [504]
 

Edited by: Hratli Smirks on 20/11/2009 03:04:07
Serious post: Did nobody kind of look over this thing and say, "Hey, man, you can't targetpaint POS modules or sieged/triaged capitals or really anything a capital is supposed to shoot at." I mean it isn't like Nozh is running a one man show here, somebody had to bring this up at some point, right?

Unless this is really just a big troll like I was saying before.

Kushmir
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 03:01:00 - [505]
 

٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶www.gaytube.com٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶٩ ๏̯͡๏)۶٩๏̯͡๏)۶

Ferroque
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.20 03:02:00 - [506]
 

"heh"

Vanija
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 03:03:00 - [507]
 

Originally by: Hratli Smirks
Serious post: Did nobody kind of look over this thing and say, "Hey, man, you can't targetpaint POS modules or sieged/triaged capitals." I mean it isn't like Nozh is running a one man show here, somebody had to bring this up at some point, right?

Unless this is really just a big troll like I was saying before.


Obviously you don't realize how ******ed CCP is....

Minto Took
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.20 03:03:00 - [508]
 

Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
...wouldn't you rather that CCP release quality products?


They could, you know, push back the release date.

Astetta
Posted - 2009.11.20 03:04:00 - [509]
 

Edited by: Astetta on 20/11/2009 03:04:21
Hey guys, this internet spaceship game wasn't really all that fun anyway. Let's go find one where the developers have a clue and use their own product.

٩๏̯͡๏)۶__________/

Valanan
Caldari
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.20 03:05:00 - [510]
 

Originally by: Isaac Starstriker
While I sympathize with those who fly Motherships, wouldn't you rather that CCP release quality products?


The original version of the changes were a quality product that was well tested and well received by the playerbase?



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