open All Channels
seplocked Market Discussions
blankseplocked Dynasty Banking - For Those that want Closure
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 [3]

Author Topic

Dumb Jerk
Posted - 2009.11.17 21:38:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Ray McCormack
If there is one thing pertinent I learnt from TornSoul during my time in BIG and the BMBE...


my my, what an incestuous little world you guys live in. I wonder what other connections exist between BIG, EBank, DBank, etc.

Just a side question: do auditors do anything other than a preliminary audit? or is there an ongoing process? Is there any neutral third-party auditing EBank? When was the last time it was audited? If it hasn't received a third-party audit, why not?

SetrakDark
DarkCorp Citizens Holdings
DarkCorp Citizens
Posted - 2009.11.17 21:45:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Dumb Jerk
Just a side question: do auditors do anything other than a preliminary audit? or is there an ongoing process? Is there any neutral third-party auditing EBank? When was the last time it was audited? If it hasn't received a third-party audit, why not?


As far as I understand it, all such efforts have been attempted yet fallen through. Shockingly, the required time and effort to run a clean and transparent bank in a video game seem to outweigh the reward from doing so.

Barbicane
TGUN Industries
Posted - 2009.11.17 22:00:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Varo Jan
The arrogant troll who currently runs what´s left of EBank hasn´t demonstrated competence to-date.

I'd like to say in defense of Ray McCormack that before he took over the day-to-day operations of BMBE, that bank was about as popular as EBank is today. He did turn BMBE around and today it appears to be fairly well working within its niche.

I'm pretty sure Ray McCormack regrets joining EBank, but I'm impressed by his track record and by his perseverance, and if anyone can make it work it's him. Just give him a chance, will you?

Convexing
Posted - 2009.11.17 22:24:00 - [64]
 

This whole "Oh, we found a security problem with our database so your all screwed and I keep everyones ISK" excuse is laughable. You just compare how much ISK you have in your account used for the bank against whatever backup you have. If it's close, you know the database hasn't been tampered with.

If it was tampered with, even if 90% of the people received all or even some of their ISK back, that would be better then screwing 100% of investors out of completely everything. Trying to right the wrong no matter how small the effort put in or the outcome is always better then not trying at all and running away.

In the end, this just turned out to be the easy lame excuse Manalapan needed to get out from under his failing bank and make himself rich in the process. Manalapan is a lazy bum with zero honor for taking the "easy" way out of this problem.

I didn't lose that much in DBANK, only 7 Bil. My largest gripe is how poorly the situation was handled. I am just glad I retrieved my much larger sum out of EBank before that also went to hell. Banking in Eve is dead forever.

Reilly Duvolle
Posted - 2009.11.18 01:29:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
Also those same sources have shown that he is someone who can not handle his 'reputation' being bad


If there is one thing pertinent I learnt from TornSoul during my time in BIG and the BMBE it is this. Never fear to do what you believe is right, ride the storm and reap the rewards.

Cue the trolls saying it's a pity that's the only thing I learned...



Not at all Ray. I am just curious what kind of excuse your guys are going to use when u finally close down EBANK. But I guess, as long as people still deposit money with you, there is really no reason to close it. Money rolling in right?

Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2009.11.18 04:16:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Amarr Citizen 155 on 18/11/2009 05:20:29
Originally by: Reilly Duvolle


Not at all Ray. I am just curious what kind of excuse your guys are going to use when u finally close down EBANK.


Something like this:

Dear EBANK customers and fans,
We are sorry this day has come but we must finally close our doors. We all knew this day would come and that eventually CCP would turn off the servers and move on to another game. We've enjoyed the past 15 years since having paid back all isk and reopened our banking services to the public. We wish you all the best with your future endeavors. /finger


Yeah, something like that.

Edit: Sorry, forgot the finger...thanks Ray.

Reilly Duvolle
Posted - 2009.11.18 13:05:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
Edited by: Amarr Citizen 155 on 18/11/2009 05:20:29
Originally by: Reilly Duvolle


Not at all Ray. I am just curious what kind of excuse your guys are going to use when u finally close down EBANK.


Something like this:

Dear EBANK customers and fans,
We are sorry this day has come but we must finally close our doors. We all knew this day would come and that eventually CCP would turn off the servers and move on to another game. We've enjoyed the past 15 years since having paid back all isk and reopened our banking services to the public. We wish you all the best with your future endeavors. /finger


Yeah, something like that.

Edit: Sorry, forgot the finger...thanks Ray.


Nice fairytale there 155. Although the children that are the only ones that could possibly believe you might take offense of the finger. Just a tip.

Dzil
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2009.11.18 15:12:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
Edited by: Amarr Citizen 155 on 18/11/2009 05:20:29
Originally by: Reilly Duvolle


Not at all Ray. I am just curious what kind of excuse your guys are going to use when u finally close down EBANK.


Something like this:

Dear EBANK customers and fans,
We are sorry this day has come but we must finally close our doors. We all knew this day would come and that eventually CCP would turn off the servers and move on to another game. We've enjoyed the past 15 years since having paid back all isk and reopened our banking services to the public. We wish you all the best with your future endeavors. /finger


Yeah, something like that.

Edit: Sorry, forgot the finger...thanks Ray.


Well, hidden in this message is the big announcement. Ebank customers, you will be paid back sometime before the game closes down.

My mind is now at ease :P

Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2009.11.18 19:19:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Dzil

My mind is now at ease :P


You're welcome.

Hepzibah Mariana
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2009.11.18 20:33:00 - [70]
 

Is there anything we could do about this? Does anyone have information about alts or something we can do to at least make him burn through the ISK if not pressure DBANK or even EBANK into returning some of the ISK. I know its a terrible greifer tactic but I don't like jsut sitting by unable to do anything.

Turiel Demon
Minmatar
Celtic industries
Posted - 2009.11.18 20:39:00 - [71]
 

Learn2ignoresunkcosts

Avandir Correus
Posted - 2009.11.18 20:47:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Hepzibah Mariana
Is there anything we could do about this? Does anyone have information about alts or something we can do to at least make him burn through the ISK if not pressure DBANK or even EBANK into returning some of the ISK. I know its a terrible greifer tactic but I don't like jsut sitting by unable to do anything.


What would that accomplish? Start a new account, shuffle the isk through a couple different characters. It'll never be traceable at that point, and you can still make off with it scot free. Not like training up skills takes terribly long or anything. It's entirely too easy to escape unmolested. Griefer tactics in this type situation don't do anything but pander to infantile urges, really.

Besides which, half of Ray's detractors might fully well be alts of his if you want to get that paranoid. It's not hard to fake in a game like this.

caronome
Posted - 2009.11.18 22:32:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
Edited by: Amarr Citizen 155 on 18/11/2009 05:20:29
Originally by: Reilly Duvolle


Not at all Ray. I am just curious what kind of excuse your guys are going to use when u finally close down EBANK.


Something like this:

Dear EBANK customers and fans,
We are sorry this day has come but we must finally close our doors. We all knew this day would come and that eventually CCP would turn off the servers and move on to another game. We've enjoyed the past 15 years since having paid back all isk and reopened our banking services to the public. We look forward to your custom in future lives. /finger


Yeah, something like that.

Edit: Sorry, forgot the finger...thanks Ray.


Having already had a Grail reference, equal time for HHGTG could be served by a Slartibartfast quote.

Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2009.11.19 11:32:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: SentryRaven
Edited by: SentryRaven on 16/11/2009 15:15:17
Want to sell DBANK Forum sql-dump. Offers here or ingame.

EDIT:
Dump will obviously have all emails and password hashes cleared.


Be carefull what you're doing there, mate. You're stepping on (or already over) the line of real life crime with such an offer. Even with some information removed.

Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2009.11.19 11:39:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Gabriel Rosencrantz
Originally by: Hel O'Ween
Because nobody knows for how long the database was exposed to the public and therefore nobody knows how many have tried to inject something in there/manipulate the data.


I'm sorry, but this is an odd thing to say.

The thing is: no one knows that ANYTHING was done to the database. So whats-his-name is going to keep the money because something MIGHT have happened. And apparently its better that he keep your money, rather than some thief. Cause we all know, if all of your money is going to be taken, its better that it be taken by the corporation rather than the thief.



It wasn't my intention to defending DBANK in any way. I lost money myself there. I was just replying to someone about the technical details. The whole case now became an openly admitted scam. Although it is my understanding that DBANK wasn't planned as a scam in the first place and that database issue (or restauration of it) was the stimulus to it, it doesn't matter in the end. A scam's a scam in this case, no matter what the motivation was.

Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2009.11.19 11:53:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Hel O'Ween
Be carefull what you're doing there, mate. You're stepping on (or already over) the line of real life crime with such an offer. Even with some information removed.

What real life do you live in? That's no where near being a crime. A crime against common decency perhaps, but no law would be broken.

Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2009.11.19 12:12:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Ray McCormack

What real life do you live in?



Obviously a good (=consumer oriented) one. §202 ff StGB. There's another one, I don't remember right.

Mme Pinkerton
The pink win
Posted - 2009.11.19 12:37:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Hel O'Ween
Originally by: Ray McCormack

What real life do you live in?



Obviously a good (=consumer oriented) one. §202 ff StGB. There's another one, I don't remember right.

rough translation of 202a (beware IANAL) Wink

Originally by: StGB
Whoever provides himself or any other with unauthorized access to data - which is not intended to be accessible by him and which is explicitly secured against unauthorized access - by overcoming access security, shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding three years or a fine.

providing someone else which unauthorized access to data which is not intended for him: check (the 3rd party wasn't meant to access the internal DBANK forums)
secured against unauthorized access: check (forum login)
by overcoming access security: open to debate (security was partly disabled, but it was obvious that the data was not intended to be public)

If the forum dump contains RL info about DBANK staff, I would expect further privacy rights to prevent the sale/circulation of this data (under German jurisdiction)...

Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2009.11.19 12:46:00 - [79]
 

If I 'accidentally' make all EBANK forums public, thereby revealing the real-lie contact details (with addresses) of the previous Board, would I be held legally responsible under those laws?

And would you catch me here in Africa, or would I just not be able to visit Germany anymore? (lol)

Mme Pinkerton
The pink win
Posted - 2009.11.19 13:08:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Ray McCormack
And would you catch me here in Africa, or would I just not be able to visit Germany anymore? (lol)


If I am not mistaken, the point was not whether this *is* illegal or not, but whether countries exits under whose legislation this would/might be illegal.

In Germany there has been some recent debates about a very similar matter as some guy had used a crawler to collect publicly viewable user data from a German Facebook competitor and did threaten to sell this data to 3rd parties.
He was arrested on charges of attempted extortion (because he allegedly asked the company running the network for money for not disseminating the data), but it is widely believed that the mere act of collecting & selling this data to a person outside the social network might constitute a criminal offense violating privacy rights, as the people who did include the information into their profile pages had a reasonable expectation of their profiles only being viewable within the network and didn't agree to disseminating that data to 3rd parties.
(Sadly, that guy did commit suicide in prison before the case could be negotiated before a court Neutral.)

Avandir Correus
Posted - 2009.11.19 14:38:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Mme Pinkerton
Originally by: Ray McCormack
And would you catch me here in Africa, or would I just not be able to visit Germany anymore? (lol)


If I am not mistaken, the point was not whether this *is* illegal or not, but whether countries exits under whose legislation this would/might be illegal.

In Germany there has been some recent debates about a very similar matter as some guy had used a crawler to collect publicly viewable user data from a German Facebook competitor and did threaten to sell this data to 3rd parties.
He was arrested on charges of attempted extortion (because he allegedly asked the company running the network for money for not disseminating the data), but it is widely believed that the mere act of collecting & selling this data to a person outside the social network might constitute a criminal offense violating privacy rights, as the people who did include the information into their profile pages had a reasonable expectation of their profiles only being viewable within the network and didn't agree to disseminating that data to 3rd parties.
(Sadly, that guy did commit suicide in prison before the case could be negotiated before a court Neutral.)

That's just frakking dumb. It's publicly viewable information, there were no privacy rights violated. That's no different than getting arrested for telling a friend your neighbor is driving a new sportscar because he parked it in his driveway.

If it was an extortion charge, I could see that working out, but just selling data that's publicly available?

Mme Pinkerton
The pink win
Posted - 2009.11.19 14:47:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Avandir Correus
If it was an extortion charge, I could see that working out, but just selling data that's publicly available?

Rereading my post, my wording wasn't careful enough - the data was viewable to anyone who had registered an account with the social network (via the search functionality), so it wasn't public de jure but otoh anybody could register an account (no ID checks or similar), so it was public de facto.

Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2009.11.19 16:21:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Ray McCormack
If I 'accidentally' make all EBANK forums public, thereby revealing the real-lie contact details (with addresses) of the previous Board, would I be held legally responsible under those laws?



No, I think not, because you're the "owner" of that board. Whereas SentryRaven was not involved in DBANK (corerct me, if I'm wrong).

Quote:

And would you catch me here in Africa, or would I just not be able to visit Germany anymore? (lol)



That depends. Say, I manage to get a warrant on you. Germany might have a bilateral agreement with that country. If not, than you should avoid any EU country, as you might get arrested upon arrival and sent to Germany. Which is no theoretical case, but has happened before, see for example Gary Lauck (arrested in Denmark, sent to Germany) or Nichlas Leeson (arrested in Germany, sent to Singapure).

RAW23
Posted - 2009.11.19 16:30:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Hel O'Ween
Originally by: Ray McCormack
If I 'accidentally' make all EBANK forums public, thereby revealing the real-lie contact details (with addresses) of the previous Board, would I be held legally responsible under those laws?



No, I think not, because you're the "owner" of that board. Whereas SentryRaven was not involved in DBANK (corerct me, if I'm wrong).

Quote:

And would you catch me here in Africa, or would I just not be able to visit Germany anymore? (lol)



That depends. Say, I manage to get a warrant on you. Germany might have a bilateral agreement with that country. If not, than you should avoid any EU country, as you might get arrested upon arrival and sent to Germany. Which is no theoretical case, but has happened before, see for example Gary Lauck (arrested in Denmark, sent to Germany) or Nichlas Leeson (arrested in Germany, sent to Singapure).


New European arrest warrants are very scary. In theory you can be arrested by the cops in your home country for something that isn't an offence in your country (such as holocaust denial in the UK) and sent to the country that issued the warrant.

SentryRaven
KIA Corporation
Zenith Affinity
Posted - 2009.12.04 12:12:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: SentryRaven on 04/12/2009 12:14:27
Originally by: Hel O'Ween
Originally by: Ray McCormack
If I 'accidentally' make all EBANK forums public, thereby revealing the real-lie contact details (with addresses) of the previous Board, would I be held legally responsible under those laws?



No, I think not, because you're the "owner" of that board. Whereas SentryRaven was not involved in DBANK (corerct me, if I'm wrong).


You are wrong.

I was briefly "employed" to fix their forums with API verification and have it not let any spambots register.
I was also in the progress of rewriting their styles.

I was given Administrator / Founder permissions and thus could access every part of that board.

The paragraph you quoted is regarding personal data, AFAIK.
Your posts on an internet forum are not personal data as per this ruling.

And for the haters / forum warriors:
Highest offer/buyout I received was 45B ISK. :)
Manalapan offered 14 ISK. The amount I had in DBANK + Interest, to be precise.

Einear Lightfingers
Posted - 2009.12.06 04:38:00 - [86]
 

For all of you who have had fun with losing isk to scams. Mana is back and also tells you to talk to his alt for a refund of isk. (ALT: Jade Elaira) However, when requesting your isk the scum bag talks you along, deposits .10 isk and then spams you with you been scammed messages. He/She/It is part of General Tso's Alliance. Recommendation is to say F it and remember it is a just a space game. Filled with individuals who have no life skills, live in their parents basements, and a social life of a corpse. Enjoy the money Mana/Elaira I have already recouped my loses 2 fold.

Borrowing the Sign of Another...

Finger!

Jade Elaira
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.06 05:19:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Einear Lightfingers
For all of you who have had fun with losing isk to scams. Mana is back and also tells you to talk to his alt for a refund of isk. (ALT: Jade Elaira) However, when requesting your isk the scum bag talks you along, deposits .10 isk and then spams you with you been scammed messages. He/She/It is part of General Tso's Alliance. Recommendation is to say F it and remember it is a just a space game. Filled with individuals who have no life skills, live in their parents basements, and a social life of a corpse. Enjoy the money Mana/Elaira I have already recouped my loses 2 fold.

Borrowing the Sign of Another...

Finger!


"Einear Lightfingers > Practice your tanking skills we will all be gunnig for you."

KentDub
Posted - 2009.12.06 05:32:00 - [88]
 

Lawl! I just scammed Jade Elaira for 50m! You'all just need to learn to scam the scammers. Get a life - get some balls, and most important: send Jade Elaira any amount of isk and he will sent it back 10x! I got 50m out of it!

Malefor Seltroska
Posted - 2009.12.06 13:45:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Malefor Seltroska on 06/12/2009 21:16:39
Originally by: Securitas Protector
Hold on, does that make Ihatalo Cartel Financial Services the largest bank in EVE that hasn't scammed anyone yet?

Not yet, but they have some potentially serious underlying issues that could turn into one if they are not resolved ;p

- Main operating burden placed on a small number of semi-inactive individuals, Uleseces being around very infrequently, with no other high-access staffers seeming to taking the reins.
- Withdrawl requests currently take 5+ days to action, well over the 24-48 hour service level agreement, after asking someone to action it Rolling Eyes
- Website is not updated to make depositors aware of issues, even over a month of being aware of delays.

It could just be a temporary issue and geniune mistake, but this possibly has burnout written all over it ;p


Pages: 1 2 [3]

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only