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blankseplocked Message to CCP - BLASTER FIX FOR DOMINION
 
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lm89
Posted - 2009.11.14 05:25:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: lm89 on 14/11/2009 05:29:05
Ok thereís been quite a bit of talk about the much needed Blaster improvements lately. As a fallow Gallente pilot, im right behind it.

I hear Dominion is not too far away, so with little time remaining, this post is designed as a rough and ready petition, for anyone who is in favour of Blasters receiving there much needed upgrades in order to properly fulfil their role of high DPS close range turrets. At the moment you can have all the EFT DPS you want, but you arenít able to hit a planet. Therefore, specifically modify these key areas (IMO);

-Serious increase in tracking speed
-And/ or serious decrease/removal in Void's tracking penalty


Anyone who agrees, say Aye. Also, any modifications/ additions to these suggestions, shoot.
Anyone who disagrees, itís a free world, just post in a very small font.


captcommunic
Gallente
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2009.11.14 05:43:00 - [2]
 

I agree that Blasters need enhancing, but even they do get changed they will nerf the damage anyway. Another fact to consider "is do you really think CCP cares?" The answer my friend is NO.

Shitzen Giggles
Posted - 2009.11.14 10:22:00 - [3]
 

While I'd like to see Blasters get a look-at, let's be realistic, there's no way we'll see it by Dominion.

Doctor Mabuse
Posted - 2009.11.14 10:31:00 - [4]
 

They'll be fixed eventually. Lasers used to be so bad Amarr pilots all trained projectiles; they have now been fixed. This time round its the Minmatar weaponry getting a well needed boost.

Game balance takes a lot of time to get almost right (it can never be exactly right) It's just time to be patient. Personally from a Gallente point of view I would prefer to see the Lachesis/Arazu and Eos bonuses addressed first.

Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2009.11.14 10:33:00 - [5]
 

Blasters *have* the best tracking. If you think you can't hit a planet with blasters, imagine how the other turret users feel at that range.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2009.11.14 11:18:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 14/11/2009 11:19:12
You seriously think they're going to fix an entire turret line when they're literally too busy to change two numbers around in the database?

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.11.14 11:28:00 - [7]
 

Blasters have the best tracking, its just falloff is too short to do what I do with minmatar ships - orbit 2-3x my optimal into falloff. Blasters need more:

Optimal
Falloff
Tracking
Damage

Choose one. I don't care because I've stopped fly Gallente for the most part.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.11.14 11:41:00 - [8]
 

All high-damage T2 ammo is intended to be used against a ship size larger than itself. Hence the tracking penalty is on Void is quite appropriate. What is not appropriate, however, is the way that it only does a tiny amount more damage than faction.

Rage and Fury missiles work because, despite their "tracking" penalties, they do ~11% more damage than CN. That should be the model for Void.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2009.11.14 11:46:00 - [9]
 

Blasters have many problems. Tracking isn't one of them, unless you're doing something wrong or firing on smaller ships.

Lack of appreciable damage advantage over competitors which outrange them massively and horrible fitting of sub-BS ships being two.

Tracking problems are just user error.





CCP StevieSG

Posted - 2009.11.14 12:18:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: CCP StevieSG on 14/11/2009 12:18:32
Moved to Features and Ideas from Ships and Modules. Please be advised that Petitions are classified as spam and are not allowed on the EVE forums.

kyrv
Posted - 2009.11.14 12:56:00 - [11]
 

Most definatly not, they gave short range high dps since forever and simply now people have t2 they also have increased Ehp and a fitting tool that help improove setups.

Megathron was good because of its simplicity, other ships take the typhoon for expample require a lot of level V and a tad impossible to fit untill the fitting programs.

Megathron is still the best by far.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2009.11.14 13:16:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: kyrv
Most definatly not, they gave short range high dps since forever and simply now people have t2 they also have increased Ehp and a fitting tool that help improove setups.

Megathron was good because of its simplicity, other ships take the typhoon for expample require a lot of level V and a tad impossible to fit untill the fitting programs.

Megathron is still the best by far.


Hi. I'm an Amarr battleship. I do near-blaster dps at 40km+. Suck it "best by far" Gallente.

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2009.11.14 13:38:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Cpt Branko
Blasters have many problems. Tracking isn't one of them, unless you're doing something wrong or firing on smaller ships.

Lack of appreciable damage advantage over competitors which outrange them massively and horrible fitting of sub-BS ships being two.

Tracking problems are just user error.





On paper the tracking is ok, but the tracking formula puts paid to that Wink

I still maintain large blasters and AC's should have no damage reduction at Battleship velocities vs other BS/BC, and only limited damage reduction vs Cruisers. Simply because they are limited in scope of use beyond solo/ very small group combat. When I'm less busy I'm going to tinker with another idea for the tracking formula...

kyrv
Posted - 2009.11.14 13:39:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Originally by: kyrv
Most definatly not, they gave short range high dps since forever and simply now people have t2 they also have increased Ehp and a fitting tool that help improove setups.

Megathron was good because of its simplicity, other ships take the typhoon for expample require a lot of level V and a tad impossible to fit untill the fitting programs.

Megathron is still the best by far.


Hi. I'm an Amarr battleship. I do near-blaster dps at 40km+. Suck it "best by far" Gallente.


Thats a point made from EFT central from experience and experienced players powning you, short range a megathron will win most times, considering your three mid slot lack of webber i'd like to see either a 40km's tackle or the effect of resists upon your stats.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2009.11.14 13:50:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: kyrv

Thats a point made from EFT central from experience and experienced players powning you, short range a megathron will win most times, considering your three mid slot lack of webber i'd like to see either a 40km's tackle or the effect of resists upon your stats.


Bolded the hole in that. Know what that abaddon is doing while the Mega is slowboating its way over there? Oh yeah, shooting.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2009.11.14 13:55:00 - [16]
 

OP probably needs to train up gunnery support and learn to transversal imo.

Schmell
Russian Thunder Squad
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.11.14 13:58:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Schmell on 14/11/2009 13:57:49
Assuming how ccp makeing stuff recently...you will cry blood after BLASTERS FIX

So, best not

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2009.11.14 20:00:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Originally by: kyrv

Thats a point made from EFT central from experience and experienced players powning you, short range a megathron will win most times, considering your three mid slot lack of webber i'd like to see either a 40km's tackle or the effect of resists upon your stats.


Bolded the hole in that. Know what that abaddon is doing while the Mega is slowboating its way over there? Oh yeah, shooting.


Funny thing is I just ran the numbers, and if you set up a mega with a couple 1600 plates, an EANM and a DCU you end up with LESS EHP VS LASERS than an abaddon does with the same fit vs blasters >_<

It's roughly 111k vs lasers on the mega and 135k vs blasters on the baddon. The mega also deals about 1250 DPS VS the abaddon's 1070, meaning, assuming they're shooting each other and are in blaster range, the mega does ~16% more DPS, and the abaddon has ~21% more EHP. Keep in mind that this is in a situation that already heavily favors the blaster boat. The mega deals more damage than the baddon up to about 11km, and assuming both ships are webbed and going 90% of their max speed while webbed, the blasters track poorly closer than 1km, and lasers track poorly when closer than 3-4km.

What this essentially means is assuming both pilots have similar skills, and both are competent and know how to use their ships properly, the fight will be won by the mega if the fight STARTS at >5km, and he manages to keep transversal up while maintaining a range of 1-3km. Assuming he can't do that, or the fight happens between 5 and 10km, it's pretty much a coin toss, and if the fight starts/happens at >10km, the baddon is almost always gonna win.

As for the whole eft vs experience thing, you can't just dismiss either of them. EFT doesn't factor in a lot of things that are very real problems/advantages when pvping, but then again experience is incredibly biased information because a large portion of the people you'll fight are retarted, so saying a ship works well because you've killed a lot of people with it in no way means that it actually works well, just that it's worked well against the people you've fought with it, for example:

About a month ago I got into a vaga for the first time. We were at war with a ~300man alliance and it was just me and a couple other guys shooting them. I took my vaga, and started engaging a fleet they had sitting like 100km away from a gate In that first fight I killed.. I think it was 8 people and simply left when the remaining ships were all too large for me to break their tanks on my own. From that point on every time I engaged them it was at the very least against 10 to 1 odds (when I was in my vaga anyway) and I didn't lose a single vaga to them. This means that my experience has taught me that the vaga is at least 10 times as strong as most other ships. Clearly this is not the case, as my war targets were ******ed, and given my choice of ships from their arsenal I could have easily picked one that could solo (at least drive off) a vaga if fit properly.

TLDR:
Lasers > blasters, even in blaster range mega == abaddon in a 1 on 1, experience not supported by numbers is useless, because people are ******ed.

Oh and one last thing, if YOU do well in a blaster boat, and someone else dies horribly every time they get in one, what makes your view on the ship more valid than theirs?

Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2009.11.14 20:14:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Cpt Branko
Lack of appreciable damage advantage over competitors which outrange them massively and horrible fitting of sub-BS ships being two.
This.

Although both go hand in hand, as compromises in fitting often lead to reduced damage (ion blasters, electron blasters).

Koltranx
Posted - 2009.11.14 21:19:00 - [20]
 

At least the Blaster did get a tracking boost in the form of TE/TC's. Minmatar got a lack luster boost then a kneecapping with the nerf gulf club to there weapons, then a punch in the face with the nerf I don't give a F$$$ fist to the nag.

CCP try venturing over to the Fall Earth forum to get a dig on how well those Devs treat there customers. You have lost touch with your fan base and that never bods well for any rock-star.

Rhen Ayase
Ma'asei Merkabah
Naraka.
Posted - 2009.11.14 21:42:00 - [21]
 

so you are comparing a tier3 battleship (aba) with a tier2 battleship (mega) in which the tier3 costs quite more, and outperforms the other one in a static 1on1 battle with a badass fitting noone would ever use?

Johndalar
Posted - 2009.11.15 00:39:00 - [22]
 

Don't ask any buff! Look at what they have done to minmatar, they make changes but it works better on Amarr! I guess they thought they did such a good job they wanted to make it fair to the other races so they KILL the Naglfar just after they made it usable: 5% projectiles DAMAGE per level and 5% citatels rof per level. They made it worse then it was before!

So if you still love Gallente and want to use them don't ask ccp to do anything with them. Just look around at the Buff threads around here, every one that ccp started working on people are mad as hell and telling ccp to change it back to the first idea or just leave it alone.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2009.11.15 00:58:00 - [23]
 

Yes CCP fix blasters.

for exaplme fix could include

* increase DPS.
* decrease falloff.

I dont want to wait 6 months just to find out you dont care about blasters .
Because lets face it , you hate gallente.

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2009.11.15 01:02:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Rhen Ayase
so you are comparing a tier3 battleship (aba) with a tier2 battleship (mega) in which the tier3 costs quite more, and outperforms the other one in a static 1on1 battle with a badass fitting noone would ever use?
Tiers of battleships mean very little, if anything when it comes to the performance of the ships, as the different battleships are usually completely different in their usage, and the cost of the ship rarely dictates its combat abilities, just look at any tech II ship.
Some examples:
Phoon > pest
Domi > Mael
Mega > Hyp
And since when is a plated setup with 3 damage mods not something most people for pvp fit? Admittedly I've never been fond of BS pvp but afaik there are only a few ships on which active tanks are viable, and neither the mega nor the baddon fall under that category...

As for the 1on1 comment, again this is something that HUGELY favors the mega. In gang combat, the ability to hit out at 40km or do near blaster dps at 15km is MUCH more useful than what the mega can do. Go warp a gang just about anywhere, you'll notice that the fleet does not all land at the exact same place, they're fairly spread out, meaning even if you land right on top of someone (rare) not everyone will be within blaster range, and if more support shows up (not at all rare) then odds are that NONE of the guys are in blaster range. If you engage on gates, you can assume 90% of your guys will not be in blaster range (even fewer for region gates).

The statement I made was that even in a situation that heavily favors the mega, unless it manages to keep in a ridiculously small sweet spot for range while constantly keeping transversal at 90% (which is extremely hard to do, assuming it's even possible in the middle of combat) it will only, at BEST, match a ship that within 1 second can go from 15km optimal to 40km optimal.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2009.11.15 11:43:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Cambarus


As for the 1on1 comment, again this is something that HUGELY favors the mega. In gang combat, the ability to hit out at 40km or do near blaster dps at 15km is MUCH more useful than what the mega can do...


Yeah I don't think I made myself clear; I wasn't talking about 1v1, I was talking about usefulness in a fleet. And you pretty much summed it up best here.

Omar Khayyam
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.11.15 13:52:00 - [26]
 

i can use all of the weapons with their t2 variants, and i must say that, at least for PVE blasters are extremely useless for pve. i am usually using a vargur for pve with barrage ammo and they are great after you can use t2 ammo..

i think that not the turrets but the ammo should have been fixed for blasters. T2 blaster ammo have something as usefull as a "Barrage" ammo. maybe they shuold just give more range bonus to that ammo?

Letifer Deus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.16 03:13:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Omar Khayyam
maybe they shuold just give more range bonus to that ammo?



null from +25%/+25% to +37.5%/+37.5%, increase base blaster damage mod by 10%, tracking by 15%. Would be a good start to test out on sisi.

Omar Khayyam
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.11.16 07:57:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Omar Khayyam on 16/11/2009 07:56:59
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Omar Khayyam
maybe they shuold just give more range bonus to that ammo?



null from +25%/+25% to +37.5%/+37.5%, increase base blaster damage mod by 10%, tracking by 15%. Would be a good start to test out on sisi.


Agreed, this might make blasters usefull again. (at least for me)

Goloith
Posted - 2009.11.16 08:43:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Goloith on 16/11/2009 08:43:32
Tbh I really don't find that blaster don't do enough damage or that the tracking is really that bad, what I do find that is extremely irritating is the fact that if you can't get close to a target you can't even do any damage. Gallente are the slowest race in the game, yet use blasters.....CCP does this make any sense whatsoever? No it doesn't.

I propose a brand new idea, how about give ships that are blaster boats a 15km "Blink" ability (maybe let Gallente have a second ability on their MWD) or module eh? Could base the "Blink" range based off blaster size and MWD meta-level, hell even make some rigs for it. Can't step on Minmatar's toes by making Gallente faster than them, but this could be pretty sweet. Maybe from using the "Blink" ability it shuts down the MWD for 15 second because it used it all at once.

Like I said before, Blasters are completely and utterly useless atm and we don't need fixes, fixing is not going anywhere and CCP needs to teach an old dog new tricks. That's my crazy two isks.

Nareg Maxence
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.16 11:35:00 - [30]
 

As far as T2 ammo goes, it needs to be redone from scratch, cause it's broken badly.


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