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Night Epoch
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:05:00 - [31]
 

Having played countless RR station games, I have to agree.

If you're getting remote repped, you should keep your aggro. That's a simple fix that would solve a LOT of problems.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:14:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Night Epoch
Having played countless RR station games, I have to agree.

If you're getting remote repped, you should keep your aggro. That's a simple fix that would solve a LOT of problems.


I can see an obvious flaw with that one:

/remote reps an enemy to stop him jumping or docking FOREVER!

Lord Helghast
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:33:00 - [33]
 

/signed this will make taking sov rediculous, with 2x reinforced, and gate games lol in real game this will be impossible to take sov lol

make it so that if you rep, or fire your aggressed and unable to dock, seems only fair

Saihras
Gallente
Trust Doesn't Rust
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.11.12 18:47:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Saihras on 12/11/2009 18:52:46
Edited by: Saihras on 12/11/2009 18:52:07
Edited by: Saihras on 12/11/2009 18:49:30
Edited by: Saihras on 12/11/2009 18:47:35
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Night Epoch
Having played countless RR station games, I have to agree.

If you're getting remote repped, you should keep your aggro. That's a simple fix that would solve a LOT of problems.


I can see an obvious flaw with that one:

/remote reps an enemy to stop him jumping or docking FOREVER!



why not go one step futher?
pointed/being shot at = bob the station dockingmanager wont open the doors for you at all. Would be easy to come up with a ingame explanation why this is so.
Sure undocks would become one of the most dangerous places, but with the option to see to the undock out of the window and maybe a increase in station hitbox or some AOE weapon(doing 1dmg, but dont know how this would work for high/lowsec) with a cooldown for the station to prevent cloakers camping stations 23/7.

At least the age of dockinggames would be over, which come dominion would be worth the price in my opinion.

Ryhss
Caldari
The Excecutorans
Posted - 2009.11.12 18:58:00 - [35]
 

I hate staion camping games! Lots of corps who war dec, get one or 2 lucky kills(by blobbing), then the decced corp gets organized and kills the crap out of the deccers, so that corp decides to run n hide whenever they see thier WTS.'
This sucks bigus****us(latin for large ***** :p) and makes the original targets not care about the war.

Cory Sopapilla
Minmatar
Kiroshi Group
Posted - 2009.11.12 19:13:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Cory Sopapilla on 12/11/2009 19:13:57
I agree that remote rep should flag someone. It'd also be kind of nice if you could look out a friggin window or something to see who's outside the station before you undock. Even if you could click on something to request a "ping" from the station for 1K ISK to get a reading of distance and objects like the onboard scanner, that would be an improvement.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.12 22:00:00 - [37]
 

How will dominion increase amount of RR BS docking on stations? Sure you go shoot those stations, but that is with fleets of probably 100+. I am impressed if your RR BS survives being primaried by 100 ships for a minute.


Kyusoath Orillian
Haters Gonna Hate
Posted - 2009.11.12 22:13:00 - [38]
 

i would advocate for the removal of all aggression timers , especially for stations your alliance is supposed to own.

people say they don't like 'undocking games' but what they mean is they don't like it when people use it against them.

i don't like it either, i also don't like it when people move out of range of my scram and escape, maybe ccp should change it so whenever i target someone they explode ? that would improve my game experience a LOT !

yeah so i agree with all you alliance big boys who want station games nerfed, i know you need to remove any advantage a defender might have against you especially one where your 20 titans and 300 man fleet might not give you enough of an edge, after all eve is only for these mighty alliances, and we must cater to their every need.

why not make so that any time you jump into system it instantly makes it your sov ? i mean half the time its just a formality anyway right ? you'll take your skill-less blob and
paid-for-thru-exploit titans and just roll over any one that dared to try and step into 0.0 without 300 people online at all times anyway.

you sickening children.


Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.11.12 22:17:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Becq Starforged on 12/11/2009 22:18:02
Here is how you solve docking games, whether it's Dominion-style sove defense docking games in Dreads, or conventional docking games in empire space:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=554953&page=1#1

Implement that and the problem is solved.

Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.11.12 22:27:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
How will dominion increase amount of RR BS docking on stations? Sure you go shoot those stations, but that is with fleets of probably 100+. I am impressed if your RR BS survives being primaried by 100 ships for a minute.

You have a point, though you're missing a more important one. Imagine if the defender is using dreadnaughts or carriers instead of BSes? If, for example, the defense has a Titan and a bunch of carriers who each RR the titan until they take aggro, then dock/undock to repair all damage for FREE (station owner set repair costs) and clear aggro, how do you fight them? Keep in mind that you are losing a capital ship to the Titan every few minutes. And nowadays, consider what happens if the defender has multiple Titans being supported by carriers who themselves have an infinite supply of free hit points?

Kyusoath Orillian
Haters Gonna Hate
Posted - 2009.11.12 22:44:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Becq Starforged
Originally by: Furb Killer
How will dominion increase amount of RR BS docking on stations? Sure you go shoot those stations, but that is with fleets of probably 100+. I am impressed if your RR BS survives being primaried by 100 ships for a minute.

You have a point, though you're missing a more important one. Imagine if the defender is using dreadnaughts or carriers instead of BSes? If, for example, the defense has a Titan and a bunch of carriers who each RR the titan until they take aggro, then dock/undock to repair all damage for FREE (station owner set repair costs) and clear aggro, how do you fight them? Keep in mind that you are losing a capital ship to the Titan every few minutes. And nowadays, consider what happens if the defender has multiple Titans being supported by carriers who themselves have an infinite supply of free hit points?



what happens then? then you go home and cry about it.

oh no they defended their system from you, its not fair you had more ships you should win, all they did is play the game smartly using legit game mechanics its not fair waaahhawahhh.


Harisdrop
Gallente
Vindicate and Deliverance
Posted - 2009.11.12 23:04:00 - [42]
 

locking should be act of aggression

Grim Vandal
Burn Proof
Posted - 2009.11.12 23:05:00 - [43]
 

All nice and dandy especially the "shoot someone and he cant dock/jump" proposal.

What I would like to see is the docking perimeter reworked.

You undock the station at one point however to dock again you have to get to the other end of the station. The docking perimeter should be cone shaped and you need to travel there to dock.

YES no more gheyish insta dock.
At this point I should mention that insta jumps are a hell of a really ghey mechanism as well.

BTW I dont give a damn for the 80% of players hugging high sec mission gheyness so DO this. Razz


Ethan Blue
Caldari
Dirty Rotten Bastards
Posted - 2009.11.12 23:32:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Grim Vandal
All nice and dandy especially the "shoot someone and he cant dock/jump" proposal.

What I would like to see is the docking perimeter reworked.

You undock the station at one point however to dock again you have to get to the other end of the station. The docking perimeter should be cone shaped and you need to travel there to dock.

YES no more gheyish insta dock.
At this point I should mention that insta jumps are a hell of a really ghey mechanism as well.

BTW I dont give a damn for the 80% of players hugging high sec mission gheyness so DO this. Razz




THIS. Well the idea is +1, don't care about the sermon explaining his reasons.

Avoida
Posted - 2009.11.12 23:52:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Avoida on 12/11/2009 23:55:07
Edited by: Avoida on 12/11/2009 23:53:48
Originally by: Harisdrop
locking should be act of aggression


Logging in should be an act of aggression. My wife looks at it that way...I log in and get aggro immediately. It doesn't magically go away in 15 minutes either. I also lose standings the longer I stay logged and eventually I lose temporary docking privileges at 'her station'. /sigh

JS LiamElms
Gallente
Zor Industries
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.12 23:53:00 - [46]
 

i hate docking games... sucks big time! and while i want to agree with the station issue... because the has been countless times i have tried to shoot a station hugger to find them drop out a carrier and provide reps making it impossible for your small gang to kill any station hugger!

but then... i ask myself... is providing health an act of aggression? Sure its just rotten they brought a logistics person with them.... but you could just bring a falcon? or concentrate your fire on the logistics to make him jump out or dock up.

either way... i can't see why a logistics causes aggro from providing health... how is it directly harming you?

steveid
Viziam
Posted - 2009.11.13 00:03:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: JS LiamElms
i hate docking games... sucks big time! and while i want to agree with the station issue... because the has been countless times i have tried to shoot a station hugger to find them drop out a carrier and provide reps making it impossible for your small gang to kill any station hugger!

but then... i ask myself... is providing health an act of aggression? Sure its just rotten they brought a logistics person with them.... but you could just bring a falcon? or concentrate your fire on the logistics to make him jump out or dock up.

either way... i can't see why a logistics causes aggro from providing health... how is it directly harming you?


Your thinking small though. Imagine fifty carriers. A hundred. Now try to formulate a plan in which it is possible to shoot a station that is remote repped by that many carriers none of which you can kill as they instadock when primaried and undock with full hitpoints.

Now try and do this while an opposition fleet is trying to kill you.

You need 500 people. Forget about it with 100 pilots, 25 enemy would stop you in your tracks.

The trouble is, even WITH an aggression timer from RR its still going to be a ***** because the level of point dps you will need to drop a carrier that being rr in that time is very high. Without it your gonna need a massive blob. Yay. Just what dominion was supposed to create Rolling Eyes

Barakkus
Posted - 2009.11.13 00:13:00 - [48]
 

People should come out of stations at > 1km/s and the bounding boxes of the stations drastically reduced, so that within 10 seconds of coming out of a station you're already 10km away.

As it is now, the bounding boxes of some stations is so gigantic you're still at 0 on a station after the intial kickout and just letting yourself drift along for more than 20 or 30 seconds. By reducing the bounding box for stations you have a chance to bump someone off station even if they come to a full stop after loading into space.

Station docking games suck.

Valeo Galaem
New Eden Advanced Reconnaissance Unit
Sentient World Observation and Response Directive
Posted - 2009.11.13 00:58:00 - [49]
 

Prevent locking around a station at docking range + X? May need adjustments to docking distance, bounding sphere, RR range..

Random idea, feel free to tear it to pieces Embarassed

Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.11.13 01:41:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Barakkus
People should come out of stations at > 1km/s and the bounding boxes of the stations drastically reduced, so that within 10 seconds of coming out of a station you're already 10km away.

As it is now, the bounding boxes of some stations is so gigantic you're still at 0 on a station after the intial kickout and just letting yourself drift along for more than 20 or 30 seconds. By reducing the bounding box for stations you have a chance to bump someone off station even if they come to a full stop after loading into space.

Station docking games suck.

I disagree. The problem isn't people undocking then redocking. The problem is people undocking, shooting for a while then redocking once they start losing. Unless they implement a way for people inside a station to look out a viewport and see that there's an enemy blocked there, then you [i]needp/i] to be able to re-dock. But only if you didn't engage while undocked.

Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.11.13 01:47:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Valeo Galaem
Prevent locking around a station at docking range + X? May need adjustments to docking distance, bounding sphere, RR range..

Random idea, feel free to tear it to pieces Embarassed

Not a terrible idea, but here's the way to game it: you lock your opponent, then move to docking range while fighting. Then, if things start going badly, you dock up. Doesn't really fix the problem, and also gives the undocking party a significant disadvantage in that he has to travel away from the station under fire for some time before he can even return fire.

If you make it two-way (you can't lock or be locked within docking range + X), then it cancels the advantage above, but then you make it impossible to blockade an opponent. Ie, you can't tackle them, so they just warp off.

Read my idea above, it manages to (a) prevent combatants from docking to avoid fights, while (b) allowing non-combatants to redock. The latter can be removed once a method of scanning the space outside the station before undocking is implemented.

dracice
Posted - 2009.11.13 06:21:00 - [52]
 

signed. anyone who understands the changes can see this will be a problem.

u must claim the station AND kill the infra-hub before you can attack the tcu )territory claim unit(

so once the fight reaches the stage where the HUB has been destroyed then the fight moves to the station, where all the defenders will blob up and undock games with capitals and other stuff like the op says will commence.

numbers would be needed to keep them at bay while the station is shot or, you just keep shooting station and make them redock when they become annoying.

or just have everyone lock 2 targets first and wait till everyone is locked and alpha them.

Boppi
Blue Republic
Posted - 2009.11.13 06:39:00 - [53]
 

I came here expecting another whiney thread and got a real good OP with a good point i didn't think about.

Originally by: Doomed Predator
Make all stations kick out stations. 5 minute timer for redocking and give people in stations an overview that shows them whats outside the station.

m3rb3aSt
Minmatar
Advanced Component Research Enterprise
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.13 08:12:00 - [54]
 

Solution: If you remote rep someone who is aggressed then you become aggressed!

Nice and simple!

Titan Pilot
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2009.11.13 11:15:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: m3rb3aSt
Solution: If you remote rep someone who is aggressed then you become aggressed!

Nice and simple!


In empire, I thought if you RR someone in a fight, you already become agressed to the attacker but you cannot shoot unless fired upon?
Isn't that already in place? So if it is, basically you want the right to not only shoot the repper but prevent him from docking?

Because you know once you target him....he can't cloak and he has milliseconds to warp out or dock.

Seems fair to me lol

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.11.13 11:22:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Titan Pilot
In empire, I thought if you RR someone in a fight, you already become agressed to the attacker but you cannot shoot unless fired upon?
You become a legal target, which is a different thing. You do not get an aggression timer since you haven't activated any offensive modules, and this means you're allowed to dock up immediately.

Aylara
Posted - 2009.11.13 11:36:00 - [57]
 

RR and station games are awesome for guerrilla warfare. It's one of the few viable tactics available to use when you're always outnumbered, especially in NPC 0.0 regions.

Remember that not all the stations are insta-redock and you can always bump your target away.

Waagaa Ktlehr
Amarr
GeoCorp.
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2009.11.13 12:25:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Titan Pilot
IT alliance agreeing with this is laughable at best. Gee I wonder why they agree... And the moment they recapture their home systems, they will petition this and say its unfair. Blah blah blah


Ahahahahaha, lovely the bitter tears.
Scared much?

Mars Amar
Posted - 2009.11.13 14:29:00 - [59]
 

thought the whole idea of the new sov mechanic was to allow more small corps / alliance a chance to hold sov.....so the remote rep and docking will play a part in them keeping sov for longer other wise we are gonna have the same as we have now ....big alliance more ships biiger gank squad....small group no chance what so ever and vise versa.

My choice leve 0.0 as it is ...BUT....change it for highsec and all those war deccing ***s that hide on station and dock get nerfed.

RabbidFerret
Kinetic Cartel
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2009.11.13 15:06:00 - [60]
 

OP has a great point.

Increase the kickout range or the redock timer.


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