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Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.11.12 21:19:00 - [31]
 

this seems incredible chance based.

It's quite possible someone who just takes a quick stab at invention may get extremely lucky and win a bpo. Yet someone who does invention non-stop all day for 3 years gets none.

a bit too much random luck in this sorta system.

Graalum
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.12 21:37:00 - [32]
 

i always though they would make good tourney prizes

HongHi Choi
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.11.13 12:26:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Xander XacXorien
The net result of being extra rewarded with a T2 BPO would be dumbing down the invention system to being pointless because there are far too many T2 BPO's, hence ruining the invention "game" for noobs. I wouldn't argue for more T2 BPO's I would argue for less and if anything increase invention runs.



I think that you are partially right. However, my assumption is that at some point invention would cross over from being "builders job", to being the "researchers job". That is, the inventors would cross over from inventing for BPCs with short term profit, to inventing for BPOs for long term profit. The invetion will then have to take some minor fixes.

Originally by: Alezander Jagen
By increasing the amount of BPOs in the system, you increase competition and lower prices. With lower prices, more people start using T2 ships and gear (excepting those who have enough money for best-named but no T2 skills) and you get more customers. Thus, you keep your profits, and we get to kill more noobs in shiney ill-fit T2 ships.


That's the idea.

Originally by: Tarron Sarek

1) What more T2 BPOs would do is just increase supply and low-price competition. Yes it would probably drive prices down. And by that it would be very bad for inventors, the group many claim to represent.

2) What it would also do is drive down T2 BPO prices. But why? Simply because they would be worth less..

3) On a side note, prices for T2 are really low, just as prices for T1 ships are on an all time low.
Imho they don't need to drop even more, or otherwise blowing up a shiny T2 ship isn't much of an achievement or loss, both for the winner and the victim.


1) True. Read previous argument in this post.
2) Yes. In this way we also fight the RL ISK market, which is good. Btw, noticed the T1 BPO market?
3) Really low?! Did you eve read my replies? Now I might be mistaken when the mods are considered (will do more reasearch), but margins for ships are about 140%.

Originally by: Vadimik
You do realise that every time you introduce anything that combines the words "T2 BPO" and "small chance to get one" you are reviving the lottery, right?


Untrue. Lottery was "sit on my ass and wait to get rich". This system would require that you actually work your a** off, to eventually get reward. In other words, worth only for those who have decided to do invention to be one of the main ways they make ISK.

Originally by: Typhado3
this seems incredible chance based.

It's quite possible someone who just takes a quick stab at invention may get extremely lucky and win a bpo. Yet someone who does invention non-stop all day for 3 years gets none.

a bit too much random luck in this sorta system.



Worry not. We, the physicists, deal a lot with probability, and chances like this are usually interpreted as no chance at all.

vdude
Posted - 2009.11.13 12:50:00 - [34]
 

http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/Petitions/PetitionDetails.aspx?20091113-1777857-F0AFA1E1

this is a petition for t2 bpo. Yes it is unfair. But adding lottery for t2 bpc with higher material will solve the problem.
blueprint copies can't be coppied, and can't be researched, but still would gain a big benefit for someone.

And i think best would be to cancel t2 BPO - owners allready have been awarded (by earning they made till now), and ccp could give them an final BPC instead of those BPO.

Problem would be resolved like this, lottery reward system:

t2 bpc - would be an replacement for the t2 BPO.
faction BPC award
t1 BPO

New players would have same chance, and it would add some joy, no more need to reduce the number or BPO and this could function forever.




Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.13 13:10:00 - [35]
 

We also need moar T3 BPO's because the current T3 BPO holders are clearly ruining the market

*facepalm*

Rolling Eyes

venturestar01
Posted - 2009.11.13 14:40:00 - [36]
 

The thing with T2 BPO's is that people who won them or "won" them probably can make profit out of them or even sell em for alot more money.
In comparison you have cap's build in empire wich may not be used too get an unfair advantage over other players, for example lvl 4 mission running.
So why do certain players get too hold on to an unfair advantage and others not?

darius mclever
Posted - 2009.11.13 17:55:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: darius mclever on 13/11/2009 17:57:05
Originally by: venturestar01
The thing with T2 BPO's is that people who won them or "won" them probably can make profit out of them or even sell em for alot more money.
In comparison you have cap's build in empire wich may not be used too get an unfair advantage over other players, for example lvl 4 mission running.
So why do certain players get too hold on to an unfair advantage and others not?



there is only one T2 bpo problem. but thats in the head of the people who are jealous that they dont have one.

if at all let the input ME/PE go into the ME/PE for the t2 bpc you get. so if you have a perfectly researched t1 bpc (practical loss in materials is 0), you get a t2 bpc with ME0/PE0. then the new faction labs with lots of me/pe slots would get lots of work as everyone is researching their invention bpos to a level that they get decent output ME/PE for the t2 copies.

(disclaimer: i dont own any t2 bpo, but i happily get rich with invention.)

Vadimik
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:04:00 - [38]
 

Quote:
Untrue. Lottery was "sit on my ass and wait to get rich". This system would require that you actually work your a** off, to eventually get reward. In other words, worth only for those who have decided to do invention to be one of the main ways they make ISK.

You have no idea, don't you?
I have a POS I can get running within a few hours inventing, say, tech II drones. 10's if not 100's of runs a day. And it requires a few minutes a day to get the invention running, plus a hour or two on a weekend for general logistics. It's nowhere a "hard" work. Not "harder" then the research missions we used to have for sure. And given the chance-based nature, it's exactly reviving the lottery.

Brock Lando
Posted - 2009.11.13 19:51:00 - [39]
 

Not supported at all, this isn't any better then the T2 BPO lottery, it IS a lottery.

If you want to fix the mess,
1) Turn T2 BPOs in high run BPCs (1 year+ worth of production if you like, so they approach the value of what they are currently being traded for)
2) Improve the efficiency levels of inventended BPCs

darius mclever
Posted - 2009.11.13 22:16:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Brock Lando
Not supported at all, this isn't any better then the T2 BPO lottery, it IS a lottery.

If you want to fix the mess,
1) Turn T2 BPOs in high run BPCs (1 year+ worth of production if you like, so they approach the value of what they are currently being traded for)
2) Improve the efficiency levels of inventended BPCs


current t2 bpo prices range more around 3years for return of investment.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.11.13 22:31:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Brock Lando
Not supported at all, this isn't any better then the T2 BPO lottery, it IS a lottery.

If you want to fix the mess,
1) Turn T2 BPOs in high run BPCs (1 year+ worth of production if you like, so they approach the value of what they are currently being traded for)
2) Improve the efficiency levels of inventended BPCs


current t2 bpo prices range more around 3years for return of investment.

Current T2 BPO prices are inflated by around 500%. Rolling Eyes

Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2009.11.13 23:03:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 13/11/2009 23:09:44
Originally by: vdude
But adding lottery for t2 bpc with higher material will solve the problem.
This was my proposal for a 'T2 BPO fix' for a long time.

Simply changing the lottery to BPCs instead of BPOs would've been an interesting alternative to invention.
Originally by: darius mclever
if at all let the input ME/PE go into the ME/PE for the t2 bpc you get. so if you have a perfectly researched t1 bpc (practical loss in materials is 0), you get a t2 bpc with ME0/PE0.
This is an interesting suggestion, because letting ME/PE influence the outcome ME/PE without any further restrictions is problematic, since there is no limit.
So if the max you could get was ME0/PE0, I guess that could work.

I'm no big supporter of one-time investments, though, so still a bit sceptical about that.
Imho effort should be the most important factor, not time.
Many perfectly researched T1 BPOs have such a high ME/PE simply because the owner was bored or didn't have anything else to do with the BPO or the labs.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2009.11.13 23:33:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 13/11/2009 23:36:43
Originally by: Grarr Wrexx
Don't fix what ain't broken. 95% of the current T2 BPO holders have acquired it by means other than the lottery. You would be ruining them.


How would it be ruining them any more than invention when introduced ruined them a first time around? How many times can the sky fall in one place?

Offering an end to the eternal grind is an act of mercy, nothing more.

darius mclever
Posted - 2009.11.13 23:57:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 13/11/2009 23:09:44
Originally by: vdude
But adding lottery for t2 bpc with higher material will solve the problem.
This was my proposal for a 'T2 BPO fix' for a long time.

Simply changing the lottery to BPCs instead of BPOs would've been an interesting alternative to invention.
Originally by: darius mclever
if at all let the input ME/PE go into the ME/PE for the t2 bpc you get. so if you have a perfectly researched t1 bpc (practical loss in materials is 0), you get a t2 bpc with ME0/PE0.
This is an interesting suggestion, because letting ME/PE influence the outcome ME/PE without any further restrictions is problematic, since there is no limit.
So if the max you could get was ME0/PE0, I guess that could work.

I'm no big supporter of one-time investments, though, so still a bit sceptical about that.
Imho effort should be the most important factor, not time.
Many perfectly researched T1 BPOs have such a high ME/PE simply because the owner was bored or didn't have anything else to do with the BPO or the labs.


i was thinking in the range of you need to get a perfect researched bpo for a ME0/PE0 t2. e.g. for an 200mm rails bpo that would mean ME 820.;)

so with the average researched bpo you end up with something like me-2 maybe. still an improvement.

if you want to get lets say ME4 for the t2 bpc you would need to research it to ME1640. thats 228 days ME research! it gets even worse with bigger modules and ships.


darius mclever
Posted - 2009.11.14 00:02:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: darius mclever
current t2 bpo prices range more around 3years for return of investment.

Current T2 BPO prices are inflated by around 500%. Rolling Eyes


agreed. but do you really expect them to go down ever? at the current rate of inflation, they will become kind of trophies pretty quickly.

venturestar01
Posted - 2009.11.14 00:06:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: darius mclever


there is only one T2 bpo problem. but thats in the head of the people who are jealous that they dont have one.




I would not call every person who is questioning T2 BPO's jealous.

The issue is really simple, does someone who won (not bought) a T2 BPO have an advantage over the rest of the playerbase?

Cool

Equinocs
Posted - 2009.11.14 00:19:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Equinocs on 14/11/2009 00:22:21
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: darius mclever

Originally by: darius mclever
if at all let the input ME/PE go into the ME/PE for the t2 bpc you get. so if you have a perfectly researched t1 bpc (practical loss in materials is 0), you get a t2 bpc with ME0/PE0.
This is an interesting suggestion, because letting ME/PE influence the outcome ME/PE without any further restrictions is problematic, since there is no limit.
So if the max you could get was ME0/PE0, I guess that could work.

I'm no big supporter of one-time investments, though, so still a bit sceptical about that.
Imho effort should be the most important factor, not time.
Many perfectly researched T1 BPOs have such a high ME/PE simply because the owner was bored or didn't have anything else to do with the BPO or the labs.


i was thinking in the range of you need to get a perfect researched bpo for a ME0/PE0 t2. e.g. for an 200mm rails bpo that would mean ME 820.;)

so with the average researched bpo you end up with something like me-2 maybe. still an improvement.

if you want to get lets say ME4 for the t2 bpc you would need to research it to ME1640. thats 228 days ME research! it gets even worse with bigger modules and ships.



Researching T1 BPOs beyond a feasible "optimum" quote just to get a positive ME/PE for T2 BPC really doesn't make any sense and would further block up the already sparse ME-Slots without improving the original BPO. "Optimal" ME/PE for the T1-BPO should result in a ME/PE 0 T2-BPC. Or just ad another skill that allows us dedicated researchers to carry a certain percentage over from the T1-BPO.

There, i said. We all know what this evetually will ammount to. Another skill, another timesink - but one i would support nonetheless. Prerequesites could be item/group specific and something like [all][racespecific] Encryption Methodes V + needed research skills for invention V and that would somehow determine what percentage of the ME/PE of the T1-BPO get's carried over. Whatever, something like that. I'm no getting paid for it, let the devs figure it out...

darius mclever
Posted - 2009.11.14 00:38:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: venturestar01
Originally by: darius mclever


there is only one T2 bpo problem. but thats in the head of the people who are jealous that they dont have one.




I would not call every person who is questioning T2 BPO's jealous.

The issue is really simple, does someone who won (not bought) a T2 BPO have an advantage over the rest of the playerbase?

Cool



you could say the same about anything else that is rare in eve. officer mods, faction ships and stuff.

1. do they have an advantage? yes for sure.
2. do i care. not so much. if i wanted the same advantage, i would buy one. but for the moment it is easier for me to make money with inventions than sinking money into the bpo.

HongHi Choi
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.11.14 09:23:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: darius mclever
you could say the same about anything else that is rare in eve. officer mods, faction ships and stuff.



No you can't. They must be grinded for, therefore acquiring them requires an effort. Not only that, but guess what - it's chance based, so you can get a superb item, or a rather crappy one not worth the hours you (and the gang) put into getting it.

See some parallel with invention?

Now I didn't know about POS invetion. Still, even if you need only a few hours to complete the invention in a POS, you still need to be online every time it does, get another set up, so on and so forth. It requires work. Lottery does not.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.14 10:00:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: HongHi Choi

Originally by: Typhado3
this seems incredible chance based.

It's quite possible someone who just takes a quick stab at invention may get extremely lucky and win a bpo. Yet someone who does invention non-stop all day for 3 years gets none.

a bit too much random luck in this sorta system.



Worry not. We, the physicists, deal a lot with probability, and chances like this are usually interpreted as no chance at all.


1) if you don't know the number of events that can generate the result but only the % of the event happening you can't comment if it is not chance at al or not.

What are the chances to getting a royal flush at poker? Really low.
How many are dealt every day in the world? Several as the number of players is high.

2) Add a small random chance of getting a T2 BPO and as soon as someone is know to have got one the cryes of cheating will start. No thank.


If you are so keen on getting a T2 BPO through research I have alredy suggested the only workable system as far as I can see (old post):

1) get the T1 BPo

2) move it to a appropriate R&D agent with all the research skills needed for research and production from the T2 BPO

3) start a research job with him

4) he will request a mission at least once a week to avoid unsuscribed accounts research. If the mission is not done within a week the research pause until a new mission is done (you need to speak with the agent to get it);

5) the mission require something more than simple tritanium. A possibility would be some T2 component related to the final BPO, hacking some specific site and getting back the material, adding more apèpropriate datacores or a BPC of the T2 item you are researching, maybe even getting some sleeper salvage. Extra mission could speed up research;

6) the agent will use one of you R&D agents slots and will not generate datacores, they will be used doing the research;

7) after a long time (dependant on player skills in all relevant fields, agent skill and kind of BPO) you get a T2 BPo (no random chance, if you accrue the needed research you get the BPO).

That way you work like a real researcher, substantially you pay the T2 BPO through the "used" datacores and the missions you do and you really have to choose between an immediate gain doing invention (in reality creating bootleg copies of already invented items) or a long term gain doing research.

To be full functional without damaging inventors (in the current meaning of the term in game) it would require CCP to add some new T2 stuff every few months, so that there is always some new T2 item that has no BPO.


To be clear, minimum research time with maximum skills an with a easy BPO should be at least 3 months.





Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.14 10:27:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Equinocs

Researching T1 BPOs beyond a feasible "optimum" quote just to get a positive ME/PE for T2 BPC really doesn't make any sense and would further block up the already sparse ME-Slots without improving the original BPO. "Optimal" ME/PE for the T1-BPO should result in a ME/PE 0 T2-BPC. Or just ad another skill that allows us dedicated researchers to carry a certain percentage over from the T1-BPO.

There, i said. We all know what this evetually will ammount to. Another skill, another timesink - but one i would support nonetheless. Prerequesites could be item/group specific and something like [all][racespecific] Encryption Methodes V + needed research skills for invention V and that would somehow determine what percentage of the ME/PE of the T1-BPO get's carried over. Whatever, something like that. I'm no getting paid for it, let the devs figure it out...


I have always supported the "carry over a % of the ME/PE research to the final BPC" proposal.

Adding a skill to do that make it even better in my eyes as it give an advantage to the dedicate inventor against the "dabbler" that has trained 3 skills and always invent the same item.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.14 11:02:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: HongHi Choi
It requires work. Lottery does not.


Try to speak about what you know.

You see the current research system and say "the lottery was simple". It was not so simple and it required a lot of grind.

1) it started in 2005 when having 3 million SP was being a good skilled character (no remapping, level 4 implants at 100+ millions each, level 5 implants 500+ millions, less isk than today). Using 1-2 millions of those SP for the research skills was crippling for most characters:

2) no sharing of standing gains, so non fast standing increase. The research character was the one that had to ask for missions, no character with access to lever 4 agents to boost him.

3) the research missions where more serious. No "give me tritanium". You had to give a large range of materials from R.A.M. to enriched uranium, from electronics to science graduate students and the "move this stuff" missions had up to 10K m3.
All doable, but it wasn't a pile tritanium and click "accept mission" and "complete mission" for the next year.

At that time it was a level of grind fully comparable to the level of grind you do today to invent.



Merle Hausen
Caldari
Phoenix Propulsion Labs
Firmus Ixion
Posted - 2009.11.14 23:09:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: HongHi Choi

Originally by: Typhado3
this seems incredible chance based.

It's quite possible someone who just takes a quick stab at invention may get extremely lucky and win a bpo. Yet someone who does invention non-stop all day for 3 years gets none.

a bit too much random luck in this sorta system.



Worry not. We, the physicists, deal a lot with probability, and chances like this are usually interpreted as no chance at all.


1) if you don't know the number of events that can generate the result but only the % of the event happening you can't comment if it is not chance at al or not.

What are the chances to getting a royal flush at poker? Really low.
How many are dealt every day in the world? Several as the number of players is high.

2) Add a small random chance of getting a T2 BPO and as soon as someone is know to have got one the cryes of cheating will start. No thank.


If you are so keen on getting a T2 BPO through research I have alredy suggested the only workable system as far as I can see (old post):

1) get the T1 BPo

2) move it to a appropriate R&D agent with all the research skills needed for research and production from the T2 BPO

3) start a research job with him

4) he will request a mission at least once a week to avoid unsuscribed accounts research. If the mission is not done within a week the research pause until a new mission is done (you need to speak with the agent to get it);

5) the mission require something more than simple tritanium. A possibility would be some T2 component related to the final BPO, hacking some specific site and getting back the material, adding more apèpropriate datacores or a BPC of the T2 item you are researching, maybe even getting some sleeper salvage. Extra mission could speed up research;

6) the agent will use one of you R&D agents slots and will not generate datacores, they will be used doing the research;

7) after a long time (dependant on player skills in all relevant fields, agent skill and kind of BPO) you get a T2 BPo (no random chance, if you accrue the needed research you get the BPO).

That way you work like a real researcher, substantially you pay the T2 BPO through the "used" datacores and the missions you do and you really have to choose between an immediate gain doing invention (in reality creating bootleg copies of already invented items) or a long term gain doing research.

To be full functional without damaging inventors (in the current meaning of the term in game) it would require CCP to add some new T2 stuff every few months, so that there is always some new T2 item that has no BPO.

To be clear, minimum research time with maximum skills an with a easy BPO should be at least 3 months.



Honestly, this. There needs to be a way to get T2 BPO's and this is a method that REQUIRES you to work for it. It should take a player time, effort, and even an investment on their part. I would prefer if this system somehow tied into the invention system in some way.

For example, one mission has you invent BPC's of the T2 item your are researching and produce those modules.

T2 BPO's should not be impossible for someone to get other than by forking over an absurd amount of ISK.

On a side note, how much sense does it make when all an inventor does is invent hulks, week after week, for years now, and yet they are no better at doing that same task? It makes no sense, eventually, that inventor should get that BPO due to his YEARS of invention on that item.

Should people get this at random and for no effort. No, but it should be obtainable somehow.

Athar Mu
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2009.11.15 00:43:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Merle Hausen
On a side note, how much sense does it make when all an inventor does is invent hulks, week after week, for years now, and yet they are no better at doing that same task? It makes no sense, eventually, that inventor should get that BPO due to his YEARS of invention on that item.


So how many BPO's should this character get? 1, 2, 3, 4....? How many months/years would you have to wait till you got one? If I invented lots of types of ships/modules/ammo (which I do) wouldn't that mean I would eventually get lots of BPO's or would I only get one BPO randomly?

T2 BPO's are a collector items, unless you had one from the start and didn't buy it then you probably haven't made any isk off it yet. They are relics.

Oh by the way why then is there no profit in inventing ships like Golems? If of course (what everyone in this thread who wants to either get more or rid of T2 BPO's is saying) that T2 BPO owners are the ones that make invention unprofitable!

HongHi Choi
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.11.15 12:47:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: HongHi Choi
It requires work. Lottery does not.


Try to speak about what you know.

You see the current research system and say "the lottery was simple". It was not so simple and it required a lot of grind.

1) it started in 2005 when having 3 million SP was being a good skilled character (no remapping, level 4 implants at 100+ millions each, level 5 implants 500+ millions, less isk than today). Using 1-2 millions of those SP for the research skills was crippling for most characters:

2) no sharing of standing gains, so non fast standing increase. The research character was the one that had to ask for missions, no character with access to lever 4 agents to boost him.

3) the research missions where more serious. No "give me tritanium". You had to give a large range of materials from R.A.M. to enriched uranium, from electronics to science graduate students and the "move this stuff" missions had up to 10K m3.
All doable, but it wasn't a pile tritanium and click "accept mission" and "complete mission" for the next year.

At that time it was a level of grind fully comparable to the level of grind you do today to invent.





I was playing back then, and i did have to grind standings with a research agent, caldari spaceship eng at lvl4, so don't get me started. None of what you speak of were really the requirements. You had to have lvl5 science (no big deal), and lvl4 skill in research as you do now. After you get standings to reach the agent (and you would be grinding missions anyway - I have standings 8.0 with lai dai for two years now at least), you just needed to start the job, and sit on your a**. And don't tell me you can't, cuz that's what i did.

Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
Posted - 2009.11.15 13:16:00 - [56]
 

The game does not need more T2 bpo's.


I do have a solution however but it would take a little effort from CCP.

What inventors need is an edge over BPO owners, production cost, material effeciency and runs is not the way to go.

What if all T2 modules and ships has sub varients.

E.g. Crow MKI, MKII...

Each version has one slightly increased stat, such as 10% more shield, or been 5% faster.

Have these varents been only produced from invention. At a low chance, perhaps 1/10 invention jobs.

Komi Toran
Posted - 2009.11.15 14:00:00 - [57]
 

So, let's assume that you're right, and T2 BPOs are very bad and making invention unprofitable. So, your solution is to add more T2 BPOs, which, by your argument, will make invention even less profitable until the point where there's no reason to invent, save for buying a ticket to a BPO lottery. Yeah, that's a great solution! Rolling Eyes

AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar
Atomic Geese
Posted - 2009.11.15 16:14:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Elldranga
You need a problem before you need a solution. Why don't you look up a bit of info regarding how much of the market is produced by T2 BPO's before claiming that the T2 market is dictated by T2 BPO's? Just saying....


Ballisic Control System II Blueprint

ME 20
PE 0

Cost to Manufacture using market sell prices for minerals/components
Roughly 200k isk at most.

Price the module can be sold for
Roughly 780k isk minimum.


Time to manufacture one with Industry 5 using a 1.0x manufacturing time multiplier
66 minutes

Amount of units that can be produced in 30 days
654

Estimated profit per unit
~500k minimum

Estimated profit potential per month
327,000,000


Sure, the blueprint may cost one 42bil isk to purchase and take one 128 months (or ten years) to pay off, but if you were the one that originally got the blueprint via the Lottery, had it handed down to you for free, stole it or got it via isk you obtained by stealing from corps or other 'quick and easy, but unsustainable' means, this simple little T2 bpo is an isk printing machine on its own that 'cannot be removed'.


The fact that it is essentially impossible to remove a T2 blueprint from the game these days short of accidentally/intentionally trashing it means that there is literally no in-road for people to use to try and get a passive isk-printing-factory up and running.

Because of this fact, there are also the people in the shadows taking advantage of the still-high cost of putting invented ships and modules on the market, that are able to make their 100%+ profit per ship or module they produce using their BPOs, because they don't have to 'compete' with other owners of the same blueprint; because there aren't any.

Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2009.11.15 17:32:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 15/11/2009 17:40:12
Originally by: Merle Hausen
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Good stuff.

Honestly, this. There needs to be a way to get T2 BPO's and this is a method that REQUIRES you to work for it. It should take a player time, effort, and even an investment on their part. I would prefer if this system somehow tied into the invention system in some way.
Agreed, but I think BPCs with good ME/PE level (could depend on agent level and quality) and multiple runs might be better and will keep it running in a more controlled way than adding more 'infinite' BPOs you could never ever get rid of again.

If the T2 lottery would have been about multi run BPC instead of BPOs from the start, it would still be fine now.

Ok, here's an idea:
How about inventing BPCs the way we do now and then start research with a research agent, like Venkul described, to add runs and improve ME/PE on that BPC?
This would tie the systems together instead of separating them or discarding parts of it.


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