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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2009.11.19 10:28:00 - [1531]
 

Originally by: The Internets

Err, with 15 FBs it's almost 10000 DPS from a Nyx against capitals. Slaughters anything that isn't ewar immune (it's reasonable to expect a target painter or two in a gang; you're not flying these ships solo right?).

Guess what, Moms do 2000 DPS (2500 Nyx) right now, max.

10000 > 2500, right?


Yes you can paint sieged dreads and triage carriers really well.

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.11.19 10:38:00 - [1532]
 

Originally by: RoCkEt X
replies are slowing down because everyone's seen what everyone else thinks, and now we're waiting to see what CCP will do anything about it.

and ofc to see if our MS accounts will still be active in a month's time.



Indeed its time for a reply from ccp. And it better be a bloody good reply.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2009.11.19 11:09:00 - [1533]
 

Originally by: RoCkEt X
replies are slowing down because everyone's seen what everyone else thinks, and now we're waiting to see what CCP will do anything about it.

and ofc to see if our MS accounts will still be active in a month's time.



Pretty much this. I check these boards (and alliance ones) a few times a day, the rest of the time I spend playing Assassins Creed 2 instead. Btw, awsome game, they actually managed to make a sequel being better then an awsome original.. I'm in chock!

Either case, I went from wonder WTF was going on with CCP to being guttered. At this point it doesn't matter what they do, the damage is already done. It's just a question if it's gonna be bad, or really horrible.

Hell, as much as I think the Carrier 2.0 would be an alot worse option then the initial xMoms we tested on SiSi, I believe we'll see blobs of them either way. As I just posted above; it's just gonna be worse if they get cheap and can dock.

..and if CCP seriously thought that the xMom market went up in price because of the initial SiSi state, then I'm gonna smack you in the face to wake you up - don't you think the totally ridicilous new Sov system, where the rich get richer (just possibly own less space), will promote a system where few bigger entities will control the production? People are buying the xMoms now, beause it'll be a ***** to get hold of them when Dominion hits. No matter if they gets nerfed or buffed. Rolling Eyes

Oljud Zork
Evolution
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.11.19 11:13:00 - [1534]
 

I am tired of all the speculations about the dps from a Super Carrier here is a Link to my dps calculations.

That post contains the calculations for "Compact Citadel Torpedoes" and the given numbers are the ones CCP Nozh released. Until further information from CCP is it this that we will see in Dominion.

Compact Citadel Torpedo:
Explosion Radius 3500m (2187,5m for Hel with Minmatar Carrier V)
Explosion Velocity 60m
Damage Reduction Factor 6,5
Base Damage 3200 (4000 for Nyx with Gallente Carrier V)

The target:
Naglfar with 3x Lg CDFE I, In Siege, 1886m sig, 0m/s velocity.

The Attackers:
Aeon and Wyvern against a SiegeŽd Naglfar: 1724 dps and using 5 DCU 2299 dps.
Nyx against a SiegeŽd Naglfar: 2155 dps and using 5 DCU 2874 dps.
Hel against a SiegeŽd Naglfar: 2759 dps and using 5 DCU 3679 dps.

For all the good stuff and the conclusion read the link above...


Regards

// Zork

dracice
Posted - 2009.11.19 11:42:00 - [1535]
 

anti capital ship role, and UBER all in one anti cap role is two different things.

remember CCP dont want any solo pwn mobiles.

DirtySnipe
Viziam
Posted - 2009.11.19 11:49:00 - [1536]
 

FAIL...

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.11.19 11:53:00 - [1537]
 

Originally by: Oljud Zork
I am tired of all the speculations about the dps from a Super Carrier here is a Link to my dps calculations.

That post contains the calculations for "Compact Citadel Torpedoes" and the given numbers are the ones CCP Nozh released. Until further information from CCP is it this that we will see in Dominion.

Compact Citadel Torpedo:
Explosion Radius 3500m (2187,5m for Hel with Minmatar Carrier V)
Explosion Velocity 60m
Damage Reduction Factor 6,5
Base Damage 3200 (4000 for Nyx with Gallente Carrier V)

The target:
Naglfar with 3x Lg CDFE I, In Siege, 1886m sig, 0m/s velocity.

The Attackers:
Aeon and Wyvern against a SiegeŽd Naglfar: 1724 dps and using 5 DCU 2299 dps.
Nyx against a SiegeŽd Naglfar: 2155 dps and using 5 DCU 2874 dps.
Hel against a SiegeŽd Naglfar: 2759 dps and using 5 DCU 3679 dps.

For all the good stuff and the conclusion read the link above...


Regards

// Zork


Let me send you an evemail when I get home..

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2009.11.19 11:58:00 - [1538]
 

Originally by: dracice
anti capital ship role, and UBER all in one anti cap role is two different things.

remember CCP dont want any solo pwn mobiles.


Then why introduce Fighter Bombers, if they are just doing what Fighters do.. but purely vs big ships? Then why write a dev blog and claim you want to give a role where pilots 'want to field their supercap in combat'?

I sure as hell don't see more reasons to field my mom with the proposed changes, vs the current situation. It's more or less the same. If I field it I field it, but I know I'll be alot more careful when travelling now that I will be struggle as **** to just fend off a single HIC, as opposed to the previous 2. Cool

Personally I wouldn't give a rats ass if CCP removed the FB's and we had the old 2k dps with 20 Fighters as max again. As long as I can keep the drones I need to fend up HIC's when moving, and I'd prefer to get more highslots tbh, right now I can't even fit the modules I consider to be a 'must have'. Solopwn? Try hold a mom down on SiSi, it doesn't even take remotely decent HIC pilots to do so anymore.

Oljud Zork
Evolution
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.11.19 12:33:00 - [1539]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz

Let me send you an evemail when I get home..


Sorry I am away from EvE and can only access the forums from my pocket-PC. If you really want to get in touch with me:

Join the #eve-evo channel on the irc.stratics.com itŽs an open irc channel and I am the only Zork in that channel.

Regards

// Zork

Gyle
Caldari
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.19 12:47:00 - [1540]
 

Dear CCP you had the Titans billed just right. Then you wrecked em. Everyone (suprecap and regular pilots alike) Thought the 200% damage per level bonus for the titans was bang on.

100% is not enough please rectify this immediately.

Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.19 14:30:00 - [1541]
 

To me, the Chimera was always the best looking ship in the game.

Although I've often steered away in different training paths, my goal from way back in 2006 was to fly one.

Recently I finally achieved the ability to, I'm talking about in the past few months.

So with this SC change, why would I fly a Chimera? Why would anyone?

They'll be the Procurer equivlent of Carriers.

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.11.19 15:07:00 - [1542]
 

Originally by: Gyle
Dear CCP you had the Titans billed just right. Then you wrecked em. Everyone (suprecap and regular pilots alike) Thought the 200% damage per level bonus for the titans was bang on.

100% is not enough please rectify this immediately.

This, also replace Titans with motherships and it's still true.

wat is ze deal???

Grrrrrrrre
Posted - 2009.11.19 15:22:00 - [1543]
 

Well i can lay guess that ccp do want to increase the number of these ships being seen fielded.
and as such with only sumthing like 415 of them in operation they proabbly feel the need to lower the costs.

i would point out that because of their own inability to fix the titans before now they have overlooked a simple fact.
alliances instead of builing these ships instead buil titans.
so alot of the pilots who infact should of been in motherships now are in titans.

THIS will not be brought back into line by lowering the cost of the super carrier.
but instead making the titan ALOT more expensive OR useless.

I would guesstimate that almost 150pilots who should of been in mom's ended up in titans then add on the build time of a titan over a mom and you are looking at almost 220 less mom's ingame than would of been if titans had been correctly priced for their capabilitys (now and in abathur stats).

SO by altering this ship class all you will do is create another problem later down the road in 1 way or another.
You should fix titans to be much more expensive and have the 200% dmg bonus.

This will limit their proliferation.
leave the mom's to abathurs stats and watch as they increase in number but within reason.

have 2 ship types that will be used.

And the natural order of eve will balance out numbers in time. Sure we may see the odd 20 v 10 titan gankfest on each other but it will only happen once or twice.
they will eventually balance out in numbers to the desired amount.

dracice
Posted - 2009.11.19 16:19:00 - [1544]
 

Originally by: Vincent Gaines
To me, the Chimera was always the best looking ship in the game.

Although I've often steered away in different training paths, my goal from way back in 2006 was to fly one.

Recently I finally achieved the ability to, I'm talking about in the past few months.

So with this SC change, why would I fly a Chimera? Why would anyone?

They'll be the Procurer equivlent of Carriers.


um...a chimera is a carrier.

Impolite Andevil
New Dawn Corporation
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2009.11.19 16:26:00 - [1545]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: RoCkEt X
replies are slowing down because everyone's seen what everyone else thinks, and now we're waiting to see what CCP will do anything about it.

and ofc to see if our MS accounts will still be active in a month's time.



Indeed its time for a reply from ccp. And it better be a bloody good reply.


Yep. The numbers have been crunched, the people that actually understand how cap warfare in this game works have pointed out the huge problems with the Nohz design, now we are just waiting for CCP's response and growing more and more disillusioned as all signs point to CCP thrashing about with no reasons for their changes. There is the occasional burst of activity when a troll or clueless noob that doesn't understand explosion radius comes along, but mostly we are just waiting... Check the numbers of views on the thread spiralling up. The post count has slowed, but we are all still watching closely.

Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.19 16:27:00 - [1546]
 

Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 19/11/2009 16:27:39
Originally by: dracice


um...a chimera is a carrier.


ok, I really didn't think I had to spell out the analogy:

After the patch if these changes go through,

Procurer : Retriever :: Chimera : Wyvern


There is no reason to fly a carrier when dominion hits with a 5.5bil SC.

Aurelius Valentius
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2009.11.19 16:48:00 - [1547]
 

Edited by: Aurelius Valentius on 19/11/2009 16:49:57
If the Carrier and the Super-Duper-Carrier (GOD I HATE THAT NAME, it smacks of "Uber", wait the "Uber-Carrier"... way, dude! whoa... I feel my IQ plummeting into the abyss (my what big words I use...DUDE!!!) - *vomits*

Ok, *slaps self*... anyway, besides my feelings on that name... I plan on getting 1 Aeon and 1 Archon (if they are both dock capable) for my "collection of T1 ships, but I have opted to only collect them as meaningless trophies of a by-gone era, a museum piece to float and spin in the hangar of some station somewhere... perhaps await some new era of use, but resigned to a large paper weight in the current incarnation of EVE.

I shall enjoy such a toy, but my working ship shall remain the very useful ships of the game that have a role, and further, that are functional within that role... carriers started out with such hope for this expansion and well, they crashed and burned...

Also, I must say that the further I see Dominion shaping up, the less inclinded I am to ever getting into 0.0... I had ideas on it, but as it stands now, in the last few months I don't much see the point (reward), I was skilling for a Aeon, but the actual ship I will now use is probably just a transition from my Providence to a Ark and call it good... Dread, Titans and Carriers aren't looking so hot to me anymore, well at all really... my end game plan is now about ISK making and Trade, Jumping will consist of JFs to trade points... can't really go wrong there, and the skills are pretty much where they are and have been.

The Internets
Posted - 2009.11.19 18:09:00 - [1548]
 

Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: The Internets

Err, with 15 FBs it's almost 10000 DPS from a Nyx against capitals. Slaughters anything that isn't ewar immune (it's reasonable to expect a target painter or two in a gang; you're not flying these ships solo right?).

Guess what, Moms do 2000 DPS (2500 Nyx) right now, max.

10000 > 2500, right?


Yes you can paint sieged dreads and triage carriers really well.


Reading is hard. I said anything that isn't ewar immune (such as a sieged dread).

sue denim
Posted - 2009.11.19 18:25:00 - [1549]
 

u no just cause they costs 5-6b to build doesn't mean they're gonna cost that much :| MS' atm don't cost what they go for by a long shot and it doesn't seem like they're changing much in terms of production.

Ne0tr0n
Posted - 2009.11.19 18:40:00 - [1550]
 

Originally by: The Internets
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: The Internets

Err, with 15 FBs it's almost 10000 DPS from a Nyx against capitals. Slaughters anything that isn't ewar immune (it's reasonable to expect a target painter or two in a gang; you're not flying these ships solo right?).

Guess what, Moms do 2000 DPS (2500 Nyx) right now, max.

10000 > 2500, right?


Yes you can paint sieged dreads and triage carriers really well.


Reading is hard. I said anything that isn't ewar immune (such as a sieged dread).


and thats your "anti-capital" role to not shoot the primary shipclass in a capfight?

Ai Mei
Starfish Operating Syndicate
Posted - 2009.11.19 19:19:00 - [1551]
 

To prevent my dread from being ganked by large amounts of fighter bombers. I have now elected to drop 2 turrets for faction smartbombs.

Jade Kitana
Posted - 2009.11.19 20:21:00 - [1552]
 

Originally by: dracice

um...a chimera is a carrier.


Lol, look up quick, you may see the "point" obtaining orbit velocity.



Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2009.11.19 20:40:00 - [1553]
 

Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 19/11/2009 20:43:09
Originally by: dracice
Originally by: Vincent Gaines
To me, the Chimera was always the best looking ship in the game.

Although I've often steered away in different training paths, my goal from way back in 2006 was to fly one.

Recently I finally achieved the ability to, I'm talking about in the past few months.

So with this SC change, why would I fly a Chimera? Why would anyone?

They'll be the Procurer equivlent of Carriers.


um...a chimera is a carrier.


Just in case you don't get why people might be laughing at you. I'm underlining the important part and providing you with a tip by quoting a few player comments about procurers.
Quote:
Quite possibly the worst mining ship in the game next to the Rookie Ships, the Procurer-class is most commonly used as a component for building its Tech 2 counterpart, the Skiff. That said, if you have no other barges and can't find a battleship or mining cruiser, this ship will do in a pinch. Just....not that well.

Quote:
Most people know the Procurer is outmined by an Osprey or Scythe.

But without MLU's, a procurer is outmined by a mere Bantam.

What was the creator of this ship smoking? Seriously, it's a mining barge, shouldn't it mine at least somewhat well?

Quote:
Procurer is definitly the worst(ship in EVE), it's pretty easy to outmine it in any other mining ship.

Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.19 21:24:00 - [1554]
 

Originally by: sue denim
u no just cause they costs 5-6b to build doesn't mean they're gonna cost that much :| MS' atm don't cost what they go for by a long shot and it doesn't seem like they're changing much in terms of production.


It depends.

Built and sold internally you might see a 10%-15% markup. So maybe 6-8b. I haven't seen the current build costs on SISI so I'm going by the quotes in this thread. And I suck at math.

Here's the point -> .

But you will not see them anywhere near 12b-16b.

Either way, why would someone fly a carrier with a base cost of, say, 1b when for a few more bil (a bil is the new 100m to many, especially those able to fly caps) you can have an omg-super-buffed station-hugging, ewar-immune, SC doing exactly what it was not ment to do- scouring lowsec. Capship killer? Heh.

CCP Zymurgist


Gallente
C C P
Posted - 2009.11.19 22:27:00 - [1555]
 

Locking this thread.

There is a blog post out now about the changes coming in Dominion for capital ships. Read Capital Ships in Dominion and please keep comments to the comment thread: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1217073

We thank you all for your constructive feedback on this issue.

Aqua Tarkus
ZER0.
IT Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.19 22:27:00 - [1556]
 

New devblog is out. And that what we get:

Quote:
Regrettably, we've come to the point where we can no longer commit to making Motherships the monsters they're supposed to be for Dominion. However, we are going to continue refining their schematics, keep our welding torches hot and you should see them undocking from the shipyards again once we and the community are happy with their balancing.

This means NO CHANGES WILL BE MADE TO MOTHERSHIPS IN DOMINION. Since they are part of the original rebalancing effort, the DEPLOYMENT OF FIGHTER BOMBERS WILL ALSO BE POSTPONED.

CCP Nozh

cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
White Noise.
Posted - 2009.11.19 22:29:00 - [1557]
 

7 days and no dev blog, whats going on ccp scared of what we might say?
is this where you tell the carrier pilots that to keep the super carrier better then you we have given it not only the the fighter-bombers but only 10, so to make it better for them we will be removing 50% of your drone useage. -Or is it a case you don't know what to stay you know these super capital pilots are multipul account holders and your trying to work out the cost if they leave.

sure some will say let them go, lets think on this for a minute if the super carrier pilot only has 2 accounts then that a very small drop to ccp what if like me and they have more lets say 5 accounts thats 2000+ accounts still small, but what i find is most of these older players are also doing fc'ing, production, ceo/directors and they keep there corp/alliance running. also if like myself they have sold ETC then that can be an added impact to the game maybe only 1/4 sell ETC but thats still 100+ codes gone.

all we are asking now is to know what is going on and to be able to reply to your ideas sure it might be whinny some of it is good infomation that the dev might not have looked at.

so to ccp get your finger out and give us the information


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