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Odda
Gallente
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.16 12:45:00 - [1351]
 

Monday today, Stil wonder what day this ccp Nerf gets fierd..

Can't you gett some one who has played the game to fixx stuff?
Not by looking at numbers, but by looking at how stuff actaly works!

It's like having a getting a drug dealer working at a rehab senter. it just does not work..

meanato
Posted - 2009.11.16 13:24:00 - [1352]
 

the way i see it is 2 supercarriers fighting should be like 2 bs fighting, and by that i mean

- 1 super carrier should be able to solo another supercarrier it should take some time but ATM it very very hard to do.-

fighterbomber should have the "ho sh**" factor i.e 20 dreads smacking something cyno opens 8 s/c jump in and the cap fc should get a cold shiver down his spine.

they should go back to the way they were with the 20 bombers because these things are going to be exploding all over the place in cap battles. like i've been saying self rep and deadspace fits are a thing of the past. and thats a good thing nothing i like to see more than cap kills in epic lag filled fights, so they need to be worth risking. witch atm on the test server they are not.

Tobruk
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.16 14:08:00 - [1353]
 

This whole thing is so absurd. EVERYHTING WAS FINE BEFORE YOU MADE THESE CHANGES NOZAH

Don't lower cost and gimp the dps hoping that they will become more widespread. If they are good ships they will become more widespread.

Don't let them dock so that more people will buy them. If they were as originally tested on SiSi then people will use them regardless.

Don't gimp the number of drones to reduce lag. Fix the graphics and coding to enable more bombers.

I get what you are going for but all that would have been, simply by leaving things as they were.
If you insist on continuing then you owe current MS owners that 5-6 Bil in reduced build cost directly to their wallets, no questions asked. you screwed them big time with your announcement and with these changes.



Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
Posted - 2009.11.16 14:19:00 - [1354]
 

Originally by: Zyleina Kzorvern
The cost was never the issue. Neither was the fact that they could only be built in 0.0. What limited the number of motherships was the need for a dedicated account.

You can reduce the build cost all you want, but if they can't dock, their numbers won't go up that much.

But once it can dock, it can join the 50+ other ships in my hanger. The ultimate cost of owning a mothership or titan was never the ship or mods. It was the dedicated account that you needed to fly it.

Allow them to dock, and even if you increase the build cost, their numbers will shoot up.

Isk is not an issue. Tons of people have way too much of it. With all the powerblocs around, building supercaps in 0.0 won't be that much more risky once sov 4 goes away.

Whether the ship can dock will determine whether it stays exclusive or becomes a common ship that every capital pilot will have in their hanger.


Partly true. The reduced price accelerates a lot the procces and opens the door to more players. Specially sided with fact aht now you can insure them if you are goign to try somethign reaaally dumb and dangerous with it.

Kai Lae
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.16 14:55:00 - [1355]
 

Just on sisi, according to super descriptions, they've been re-nerfed to 1 fighter/fighter bomber per level.

Enjoy the monday nerf!

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2009.11.16 14:56:00 - [1356]
 

Originally by: Kai Lae
Just on sisi, according to super descriptions, they've been re-nerfed to 1 fighter/fighter bomber per level.

Enjoy the monday nerf!



Laughing

Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
Posted - 2009.11.16 15:02:00 - [1357]
 

Edited by: Catari Taga on 16/11/2009 15:04:35
Originally by: Zyleina Kzorvern
You can reduce the build cost all you want, but if they can't dock, their numbers won't go up that much.

But once it can dock, it can join the 50+ other ships in my hanger. The ultimate cost of owning a mothership or titan was never the ship or mods. It was the dedicated account that you needed to fly it.

Allow them to dock, and even if you increase the build cost, their numbers will shoot up.
Definitely. I know many players who will get one if this goes live. The only reasonable explanation is that this is CCP's intention. I don't understand why they think this is a good idea though.

PS: Nerfs to DPS are balanced by the fact that a couple of these ships are an unkillable logistics platform IMO.

cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
White Noise.
Posted - 2009.11.16 15:07:00 - [1358]
 

Originally by: Tobruk
This whole thing is so absurd. EVERYHTING WAS FINE BEFORE YOU MADE THESE CHANGES NOZAH

Don't lower cost and gimp the dps hoping that they will become more widespread. If they are good ships they will become more widespread.

Don't let them dock so that more people will buy them. If they were as originally tested on SiSi then people will use them regardless.

Don't gimp the number of drones to reduce lag. Fix the graphics and coding to enable more bombers.

I get what you are going for but all that would have been, simply by leaving things as they were.
If you insist on continuing then you owe current MS owners that 5-6 Bil in reduced build cost directly to their wallets, no questions asked. you screwed them big time with your announcement and with these changes.





alot of people are saying that we super cap owners are whinnning due to the dps loss i would still like the 20 drones/fighters but the real hit here is the fact that here is such a big isk loss never in eve has any 1 item loss such value in one go. well not in my 3 almost 4 years of playing yes we had the speed nerf and people lost bills from items they could not sell in time this is the 1st time any item has lost 10b in market value.

if this hits TQ it will be the biggest nerf to the game in an isk value and yes even a dps value.

Skags
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.11.16 15:12:00 - [1359]
 

Originally by: Kai Lae
Just on sisi, according to super descriptions, they've been re-nerfed to 1 fighter/fighter bomber per level.

Enjoy the monday nerf!
Did it ever cange? I was on Saterday and I think it was still 1. Another thing if there is isk given for price devalue to the SC's if someone has one cooking in the oven and it comes out a few days after patch day how are those taken care of and does it go to the toon who is cooking the ship or who ends up in the ship or some sort of peticion system?

MAX MEXX
Posted - 2009.11.16 15:17:00 - [1360]
 

I do love how CCP randonmly removes post from this thred.

Serena Ku
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.16 15:32:00 - [1361]
 

Originally by: MAX MEXX
I do love how CCP randonmly removes post from this thred.


Heh, and I thought my browser was acting up.

Anyway the new patch is up and have not noticed any changes done to Supercapitals yet. Sad


McFly
Peanut Factory
Posted - 2009.11.16 16:05:00 - [1362]
 

10.28.2009: CCP Abathur: Supercarriers will not be docking in Dominion. If this ever happens it will be the result of a very expensive infrastructure or outpost upgrade.

<----What Happened here? Did Nozh stuff Abathur into a trunk somewhere and take the reins?

11.13.2009: CCP Nozh: Super Carrier Changes: Can dock at stations



Meh Orka
Amarr
Big Guns Inc.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.16 16:20:00 - [1363]
 

Just make a new tier 2 carrier and leave the current motherships as they are.
Tier 1 Carrier: the current carriers
Tier 2 Carrier: Fighter Bomber/Anti capital spec. ship
Tier 3 Carrier: Motherships

- New ships = GOOD
- Nerfing ships = BAD

hermina
Amarr
Big Guns Inc.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.16 16:20:00 - [1364]
 

Just make a new tier 2 carrier and leave the current motherships as they are.
Tier 1 Carrier: the current carriers
Tier 2 Carrier: Fighter Bomber/Anti capital spec. ship
Tier 3 Carrier: Motherships

- New ships = GOOD
- Nerfing ships = BAD

Kate Pole
Posted - 2009.11.16 16:31:00 - [1365]
 

Originally by: hermina
Just make a new tier 2 carrier and leave the current motherships as they are.
Tier 1 Carrier: the current carriers
Tier 2 Carrier: Fighter Bomber/Anti capital spec. ship
Tier 3 Carrier: Motherships

- New ships = GOOD
- Nerfing ships = BAD



Problem is MOMs as they are now are broken. Not enough dps, tank and jump range even with JC5 cant go with the rest of caps... so no, they need a boost on all lvls.

R0ze
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.16 16:35:00 - [1366]
 

Originally by: McFly
10.28.2009: CCP Abathur: Supercarriers will not be docking in Dominion. If this ever happens it will be the result of a very expensive infrastructure or outpost upgrade.

<----What Happened here? Did Nozh stuff Abathur into a trunk somewhere and take the reins?

11.13.2009: CCP Nozh: Super Carrier Changes: Can dock at stations



QFT and history ..

Mike Yass
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.16 16:40:00 - [1367]
 

Originally by: Master Arrow
Originally by: Mike Yass
The real problem with reducing the cost of motherships is it reduces the desire to gank them.

With the intended buff to tanking, they are essentially immune to subcaps. The change to price also affects how many caps you're willing to commit to kill one. At 15 bil/ship plus another 2-3b in fittings it's worth risking around ~15 dreads to take it out. At 6b per ship, it's worth risking ~5 dreads to take it out.

The increase to HP also drastically increases enemy response time. Currently supercaps die to dread fleets before repping triage carriers can undock. After the patch, the defender is going to get 3-4 minutes after the attacking dreads enter siege to rescue a super cap. This is a massive, massive increase in risk to the attacker. Unfortunately, the logic behind cap fleets is that you always deploy as many caps as possible, and that when you lose, you tend to lose everything. The result is that risk of killing a mothership goes way, way up, and with the price nerf, the reward of killing one goes way, way down.

The end result is that motherships will be ****ing everwhere, and no one is going to try and kill them. Your patch will eliminate a nice source of cap fights. Please don't do that.

I know Goons are famous for stupid posts...but this is epic LOL'n at it's best....this has to be the worst point of view on supercarriers ever considering it comes from someone in goons who are famous for hotdropping anything that is camping a gate.


You're pretty dumb. The reason we abuse our capitals against small ships is that it's fun, it's nearly risk free and free to the pilot, and under certain situations, profitable for the pilot thanks to our reimbursement policy.

If you're going to gank a mothership in a competent alliance in dominion, you're going to get counter-dropped. That's not the case currently, as the asset they would counter-drop to save is already dead by the time they get a cyno in system.

The Economist
Logically Consistent
Posted - 2009.11.16 16:51:00 - [1368]
 

Don't worry guys, I'm sure there's no chance that'll ccp will keep saying stuff on sisi is subject to change then announce a feature lock in a week's time with no significant changes to now. No chance at all ugh

fairimear
Gallente
The Sp00Ks
Posted - 2009.11.16 16:54:00 - [1369]
 

Edited by: fairimear on 16/11/2009 16:54:59
this entire chapter of eve stinks.

THE CHANGES.

THE AMOUNT OF DEV RESPONCE.

THE LACK OF ANY REASON.

THE TOTAL INSULT TO EVERY 1 WHO HAS EVER PUT THE TIME REQUIRED FOR 1 OF THE SHIPS IN.

This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.


Raiga88
Caldari
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.16 17:19:00 - [1370]
 

THE END IS NEAR !

Susy Assulu
Caldari
Atomic Mexicans
Posted - 2009.11.16 17:26:00 - [1371]
 

Originally by: Raiga88
THE END IS NEAR !
THE TRUTH!

Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.11.16 17:29:00 - [1372]
 

To those who perceive Moms and this project management / customer relationship fiasco by CCP to be the exclusive concern of the super rich and elite in EVE, you couldn't be more mistaken.

What about those pilots who mined or gathered up the ore, built the capital components (AND invested in the capital component BPOs / BPCs) and performed the logistics to make it possible for one of these ships to be built?

Many pilots comprise the industrial chain required to build a super capital ship and not all of those pilots are super rich. Let us also not forget the pilots who hold and protect the space in which these ships are built.

These sudden and poorly communicated changes impact more pilots than is apparent by simply reading the test server feedback threads.

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2009.11.16 17:31:00 - [1373]
 

Originally by: Hakaru Ishiwara
To those who perceive Moms and this project management / customer relationship fiasco by CCP to be the exclusive concern of the super rich and elite in EVE, you couldn't be more mistaken.

What about those pilots who mined or gathered up the ore, built the capital components (AND invested in the capital component BPOs / BPCs) and performed the logistics to make it possible for one of these ships to be built?


Hear hear!

Captain Jonah
Posted - 2009.11.16 17:56:00 - [1374]
 

Smells like Sony got involved...

Is Dominion CCP's "NGE"? (Starwars Galaxies epic fail)

-Gag intelligence, check
-Ignore the playerbase, check
-Nerf the end game and make sure most anyone get in on it (Jedi / Supercaps), check
-Learn nothing by watching other MMO mistakes, looking like a check

-Mom account in training ready to cancel, check

Sad to see this unfolding...

Saurish
Posted - 2009.11.16 18:07:00 - [1375]
 

Originally by: Captain Jonah
Smells like Sony got involved...

Is Dominion CCP's "NGE"? (Starwars Galaxies epic fail)

-Gag intelligence, check
-Ignore the playerbase, check
-Nerf the end game and make sure most anyone get in on it (Jedi / Supercaps), check
-Learn nothing by watching other MMO mistakes, looking like a check

-Mom account in training ready to cancel, check

Sad to see this unfolding...


This quote is probaly the most serius argument to any developer of CCP.

But if developer cannot solve what Captain Jonah said, then i have no idea wtf is he doing at mmorpg game.

Dumping down game for new players and for "masses", WoW is that way Arrow.

An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.16 18:07:00 - [1376]
 

Oh no! You are no longer a super elite space pilot!

This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.

Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2009.11.16 18:55:00 - [1377]
 

Originally by: McFly
10.28.2009: CCP Abathur: Supercarriers will not be docking in Dominion. If this ever happens it will be the result of a very expensive infrastructure or outpost upgrade.

<----What Happened here? Did Nozh stuff Abathur into a trunk somewhere and take the reins?

11.13.2009: CCP Nozh: Super Carrier Changes: Can dock at stations




Add to this
2009.09.15: CCP Abathur: One side effect of this change is that the build cost for Supercarriers will go down slightly as they will no longer require the Capital Clone Vat Bay components.

Taarna Galin
Posted - 2009.11.16 19:02:00 - [1378]
 

It looks like the workday has come and gone for Nozh and he couldn't spare 5 minutes to post something, anything. Sad

Sajeera
Posted - 2009.11.16 19:11:00 - [1379]
 

Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Oh no! You are no longer a super elite space pilot!

This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.




this is one of the very few times that i can agree with you.

All that i see is a bunch of old players screaming in horror that somebody may enter their special 2003 club and be able to pilot a mothership - BLASPHEMY.

All the threats for mass suicides, wrist cuts and account deleting are exactly because they already have a mothership and they want to be few and special, they want pawnmobile, expensive one, and to not be able to dock exactly because of the same reason.

I can agree about the docking games argument but there must be some way or game mechanic to prevent this, like docking timer or implementing some expensive outpost upgrade for docking. Everybody here raging against docking under any circumstances have only one thing in mind "Don't let other people be special like me".

Its not like every new pilot will jump from Ibis to Wyvern, you need years of training and tons of money to be able to afford one anyway.

Just my opinion, flame on....

cpu939
Gallente
Volatile Nature
White Noise.
Posted - 2009.11.16 19:24:00 - [1380]
 

Edited by: cpu939 on 16/11/2009 19:33:03
Originally by: Taarna Galin
It looks like the workday has come and gone for Nozh and he couldn't spare 5 minutes to post something, anything. Sad


remember he doesn't care about the ms pilot player base all he cares about is bumming down eve to get new players in next thing you'll see is the capital skill books costing 36m for capital ship 40m for carrier 8m for dread and 450m for titan

i mean no reply from any ccp dev and no dev blog also changes not happing on sisi, i think his post with the changes to docking and 2 fighter/drones per level was just a ploy to get us to wait and then it will hit tq and will be told no this is it.

also this is one of the devs along with zulupark who wants only 5 fighter/drones for carriers and ms with us having to give out the others now that he has took 50% away from the ms how long till he removes the other 25%.

ccp rp = look we value our players we even have a csm group made up and voted by the players
ccp reality = we make the rules if you don't like it tought.

while i would like to go to fanfest where alot of talking on the super caps took place i now fell it is a pr stunt and like most stunts ends up going bad.

Originally by: Sajeera
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Oh no! You are no longer a super elite space pilot!

This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.




this is one of the very few times that i can agree with you.

All that i see is a bunch of old players screaming in horror that somebody may enter their special 2003 club and be able to pilot a mothership - BLASPHEMY.

All the threats for mass suicides, wrist cuts and account deleting are exactly because they already have a mothership and they want to be few and special, they want pawnmobile, expensive one, and to not be able to dock exactly because of the same reason.

I can agree about the docking games argument but there must be some way or game mechanic to prevent this, like docking timer or implementing some expensive outpost upgrade for docking. Everybody here raging against docking under any circumstances have only one thing in mind "Don't let other people be special like me".

Its not like every new pilot will jump from Ibis to Wyvern, you need years of training and tons of money to be able to afford one anyway.

Just my opinion, flame on....


2003 club sorry my wyvern pilot is a 2006 toon, yes it took years of training but it would have been in a wyvern long before if it was not for teh fact that i wanted set skills before i got into the wyvern, the isk is not that hard to get 16b is really easy to get borring at time but easy to get.

and some time the only way to get it into ccp head that something is wrong is to whine look at all the nerfs there many due to low sp players going i can't do what a high sp player can or i can think of a way to over come x ship vaga then falcon. whats next the riffter


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