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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:36:00 - [1021]
 

disclaimer--don't own a mothership, don't care. Think the changes are just fine.

I think the ability to dock motherships is actually a good idea. It always struck me as a broken mechanic that people had to pay for extra accounts whose sole job it was to sit parked in a mom at a post 360 days a year.

-Karlemgne

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:42:00 - [1022]
 

CCP is this nerf happenign because you have a new super secret ship coming out? Tell us, no more secrets!!

Also, still need to work on this drone thing, im saying 2.5 drones per level is reasonable enough, but I WANT MY CLONE VAT!!

The clone vat was a great logistical pwn mobile. you could fit the corp hangers with XXXX ammo and fit the ship hanger with XXXXX bombers and drop a mothership into a system, have everyoen clone jump and mount into bombers while the mothership cloaked. Motherships / super carriers are supposed to be great tactical command and control ships.

Soleil Fournier
StarFleet Enterprises
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:43:00 - [1023]
 

Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 13/11/2009 20:50:51

The best and most fair way for reimbursement, that is also feasable:

Allow us to dock and refine our ships pre-dominion. This way we get our money out of it before the reduction in materials. This could be done either by petitions or just allowing us to dock reguarly.

Thanks

iudex
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:44:00 - [1024]
 

Originally by: CCP Nozh
Hey,

We've made some further changes to super carriers after taking your feedback into consideration. It's quite understandable that the changes made were a disappointment to many of you, but I wanted to remind you that Singularity is a test server and all changes, even these are subject to change.

Compact Citadel Torpedo Changes:

  • Explosion Velocity: 60

  • Damage: 3200


Super Carrier Changes:

  • Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level

  • Can dock at stations



Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.

That's all for now.

-Nozh





For me (as someone involved in producing, not actually flying them) this looks like an acceptable compromise, provided you don't reduce the NPC price of the BPOs. I assume there will be a decent demand with this version of changes, since the dockability is a huge improvement (doesn't require extra char, easy safe to trade etc.), also the reimbursement for the value loss seems to mitigate things for existing owners a lot.

skye orionis
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:48:00 - [1025]
 

Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
CCP is this nerf happenign because you have a new super secret ship coming out? Tell us, no more secrets!!

Also, still need to work on this drone thing, im saying 2.5 drones per level is reasonable enough, but I WANT MY CLONE VAT!!


I'm telling ya, if they revert moms and make T2 Carriers = Super Mega Win

Of course then we'll get a 30 page thread about bad paintjobs.

Jack Sparroxx
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:52:00 - [1026]
 

Edited by: Jack Sparroxx on 13/11/2009 20:52:22
sweet lord Shocked

rampaging herds of EW immune AEON's with millions's of HP and 15 fighterbombers. They will be dirt cheap and you can dock them, did any one say epic docking games???.. That will end bad BAD BAD. That set up will be game breaking like nothing else. and with out a doubt the nerf bat will get swung on that ship class again before long.

Why cant you just leave the ship as it was on you first draft? the shipclass was just about perfect(apart from the HEL lol bonus).

white kight
Helljumpers
White Noise.
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:54:00 - [1027]
 

Edited by: white kight on 13/11/2009 20:59:47
I don't mind the whole docking thing. Just give it a special docking timer, like it can only dock once every 30 mins or an hour or something. This should get rid of most of the station games.

Edit: Your ship is too large to dock right now. We have to prepare to recieve your ship. Please wait 30 minutes and try to redock.

Jack Gates
Gallente
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
Posted - 2009.11.13 20:56:00 - [1028]
 

Edited by: Jack Gates on 13/11/2009 20:57:14
Originally by: Babel
Presuming the 'docking everywhere' gonna be knocked back .. here's an idea:

'Sovereign MoMpool Outpost Upgrade' - Yes you can 'dock yr supercap' at an outpost with this sexy new hypothetical upgrade integrated into the OP, the ship is invulnerable while yr 'docked' [you appear in station as a pod and ship is outside for all to see] whether yr online or not .. unless ----

--- the outpost changes hands :P

Then the new owners have the 'parked' supercaps all to themselves.

Essentially - Yes, you can dock your supercap [at an outpost owned by your corp] BUT there is always the risk that OP will change hands and someone else gets yr big shiney toy .....


this is beyond idiotic

Originally by: Agmar
Originally by: Jack Gates
do people still think this gag is funny


No... which is why it is.


I don't think it's really reached that "ironic funny" point yet

Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:01:00 - [1029]
 

Originally by: Karlemgne
disclaimer--don't own a mothership, don't care. Think the changes are just fine.

I think the ability to dock motherships is actually a good idea. It always struck me as a broken mechanic that people had to pay for extra accounts whose sole job it was to sit parked in a mom at a post 360 days a year.

-Karlemgne


Auntie Palli's Guide To Defending Sov (with no risk whatsoever).

1. Baddies hit your outpost. Outpost goes into reinforced.
2. Reinforcement timer expires. You undock 50+ motherships and repair the outpost.
3. Hostiles outside start shooting your mothership. An Aeon gets primaried.
4. The spidertank is not enough, and once it hits 10M HP left out of its 30M, it docks.
5. The aeon repairs in station (for free, it's your station after all) and undocks.
6. Rinse repeat.

Anile8er
Five Fat Soldiers
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:01:00 - [1030]
 

I think this last post from CCP about the ability to dock and 15 fighters/bombers is a good fit for the ship. Aswell the reimbursment for value.

well done CCP for taking player thoughts into consideration. A 7th high slot may serve the ship well too considering there lower drone count will lessen there effectivness against smaller ships. A 7th high slot gives the player another neut or smartbomb.

Ivanna Nuke
Gallente
Holders Of The Cowbell
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:02:00 - [1031]
 

Edited by: Ivanna Nuke on 13/11/2009 21:02:53
Edited by: Ivanna Nuke on 13/11/2009 21:02:29
Oh dear, just put it back as it was before.

edit: Don't type while holding a drink... not good.


















Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:03:00 - [1032]
 

Originally by: Pallidum Treponema
Originally by: Karlemgne
disclaimer--don't own a mothership, don't care. Think the changes are just fine.

I think the ability to dock motherships is actually a good idea. It always struck me as a broken mechanic that people had to pay for extra accounts whose sole job it was to sit parked in a mom at a post 360 days a year.

-Karlemgne


Auntie Palli's Guide To Defending Sov (with no risk whatsoever).

1. Baddies hit your outpost. Outpost goes into reinforced.
2. Reinforcement timer expires. You undock 50+ motherships and repair the outpost.
3. Hostiles outside start shooting your mothership. An Aeon gets primaried.
4. The spidertank is not enough, and once it hits 10M HP left out of its 30M, it docks.
5. The aeon repairs in station (for free, it's your station after all) and undocks.
6. Rinse repeat.

This tactic would probably work with carriers.

Starbases should be decoupled from sov entirely tbhf.

glassmanipulator
Gladiators of Rage
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:04:00 - [1033]
 

Originally by: Mendolorian Girl
Edited by: Mendolorian Girl on 12/11/2009 16:17:39
Originally by: The Mittani
Abathur and Hammerhead had this all sewn up nicely at Fanfest. The capital ships panel was broadly hailed as a success and the players were excited about the upcoming changes.

Now you've created chaos where previously there was a surprisingly high degree of order and unanimity, for EVE at least. With your clumsy PR move there, you also just wiped out the wealth of everyone planning and investing in MS builds, or who was planning on selling one pre-patch.

Don't like the changes? Sell your MS! Oh wait, Nozh told everyone they'll be cut in value by 40%, even though that's not been finalized. Good luck selling one now!

I don't know who you are or why you're messing with what was one of the few uncontroversially good aspects of Dominion. But you should back off these changes ASAP. You should also gain a basic understanding of economics/public relations, given how much chaos your lil post there just created.

I don't even fly a supercap, and GS isn't exactly a supercap heavy alliance, but your pro-move stealth nerf and followup nightmare post is infuriating in and of itself. In fact, I'm so annoyed, I'm dropping my posting gimmick to point out how monumentally poorly judged this is.


I hate that I'm about to say this, but I couldn't agree with The Mittani more. A well thought out and intelligent post.

You'll have to excuse me, I now have to go shower in bleach.

//edit - crap, he did it again.. another sensible answer :(


For once I'd have to agree as well.......

He pretty much hits the nail on the head.

Serena Ku
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:11:00 - [1034]
 

Originally by: Pallidum Treponema

Auntie Palli's Guide To Defending Sov (with no risk whatsoever).

1. Baddies hit your outpost. Outpost goes into reinforced.
2. Reinforcement timer expires. You undock 50+ motherships and repair the outpost.
3. Hostiles outside start shooting your mothership. An Aeon gets primaried.
4. The spidertank is not enough, and once it hits 10M HP left out of its 30M, it docks.
5. The aeon repairs in station (for free, it's your station after all) and undocks.
6. Rinse repeat.



Best post for today Cool

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:19:00 - [1035]
 

Originally by: Dramaticus
Originally by: Karlemgne
disclaimer--don't own a mothership, don't care. Think the changes are just fine.

I think the ability to dock motherships is actually a good idea. It always struck me as a broken mechanic that people had to pay for extra accounts whose sole job it was to sit parked in a mom at a post 360 days a year.

-Karlemgne


no one cares what some low brow scrub thinks


Good, because nobody buy goons really gives two craps about what metawhiners think. So I guess we're in a very similar position visa vis our relationship to this thread.


Ap0ll0n
Gallente
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:19:00 - [1036]
 

Originally by: Pallidum Treponema
Originally by: Karlemgne
disclaimer--don't own a mothership, don't care. Think the changes are just fine.

I think the ability to dock motherships is actually a good idea. It always struck me as a broken mechanic that people had to pay for extra accounts whose sole job it was to sit parked in a mom at a post 360 days a year.

-Karlemgne


Auntie Palli's Guide To Defending Sov (with no risk whatsoever).

1. Baddies hit your outpost. Outpost goes into reinforced.
2. Reinforcement timer expires. You undock 50+ motherships and repair the outpost.
3. Hostiles outside start shooting your mothership. An Aeon gets primaried.
4. The spidertank is not enough, and once it hits 10M HP left out of its 30M, it docks.
5. The aeon repairs in station (for free, it's your station after all) and undocks.
6. Rinse repeat.



And this is ofcourse not possible with standard carriers.. Rolling Eyes

Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:23:00 - [1037]
 

Edited by: Pallidum Treponema on 13/11/2009 21:29:24
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema

Auntie Palli's Guide To Defending Sov (with no risk whatsoever).

1. Baddies hit your outpost. Outpost goes into reinforced.
2. Reinforcement timer expires. You undock 50+ motherships and repair the outpost.
3. Hostiles outside start shooting your mothership. An Aeon gets primaried.
4. The spidertank is not enough, and once it hits 10M HP left out of its 30M, it docks.
5. The aeon repairs in station (for free, it's your station after all) and undocks.
6. Rinse repeat.

This tactic would probably work with carriers.


Nope. Carriers can be melted before they can redock or they have a chance to get into the spidertank web. Supercarriers will have 20-25 times the HP of a carrier, and will therefore be able to survive. Also, carriers can be jammed and dampened to break their spidertanks. Supercarriers cannot.

Edit: Hey! Look! Numbers!

Hostiles are camping your station with 200 battleships. These 200 battleships do 500 DPS each, for a total of 100000 DPS.

A carrier has 1.5M EHP. 1.5M/100k = 15. A carrier will melt in 15 seconds, meaning that you have a very good chance of killing it before it can be remote repped.

A supercarrier has 30M EHP. 30M/100k = 300. A supercarrier will live for FIVE MINUTES even without a local rep or any kind of spidertank. Add a spidertank and.. yeah, right. There's no way you can kill that before it docks.


Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Starbases should be decoupled from sov entirely tbhf.


They will be. Outposts will now be protecting sov instead. With a dual reinforcement timer, so you'll get two chances to defend according to the above.

Rosalyn Heart
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:24:00 - [1038]
 

Edited by: Rosalyn Heart on 13/11/2009 21:25:17
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema
Originally by: Karlemgne
disclaimer--don't own a mothership, don't care. Think the changes are just fine.

I think the ability to dock motherships is actually a good idea. It always struck me as a broken mechanic that people had to pay for extra accounts whose sole job it was to sit parked in a mom at a post 360 days a year.

-Karlemgne


Auntie Palli's Guide To Defending Sov (with no risk whatsoever).

1. Baddies hit your outpost. Outpost goes into reinforced.
2. Reinforcement timer expires. You undock 50+ motherships and repair the outpost.
3. Hostiles outside start shooting your mothership. An Aeon gets primaried.
4. The spidertank is not enough, and once it hits 10M HP left out of its 30M, it docks.
5. The aeon repairs in station (for free, it's your station after all) and undocks.
6. Rinse repeat.



And this is ofcourse [sic] not possible with standard carriers.. Rolling Eyes


It has been demonstrated on more than one occasion that it is possible to alpha a regular carrier with just BSes and dreadnoughts on the field.

EDIT - Beaten...by -A- no less. :argh:

Dirk Culliford
H A V O C
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:25:00 - [1039]
 

Ok...so to summarise:


Sov wars now pointless because of having to destroy anything of value - Check
Sov wars now impossible to win because of MS blob sitting on the station - Check

I say we all just blue each other and run anomalies together

Ivanna Nuke
Gallente
Holders Of The Cowbell
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:30:00 - [1040]
 

I want CCP's own reason without any public relations ****e thrown in, as to why they moved away from a plan of which the community was happy with.


Letifer Deus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:32:00 - [1041]
 

How long is it going to take Nozh to write his "big picture" blog?

Merces Mercedis
Minmatar
Lunitic Fringe
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:40:00 - [1042]
 

Edited by: Merces Mercedis on 13/11/2009 21:41:25
Will some Dev please take the time to give a explanation for these changes.

If there is a good reason maybe you will get some support, not the rage you have now over changes we the players do not understand and see as a game killer for those of us in 0.0

Do you understand you have now managed to totaly make a static 0.0 w/o any chance for anyone gaining or loosing any sov with a station what ever.

Please explain this to us.

Odda
Gallente
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:41:00 - [1043]
 

Before dominon,

Motership pilots lowed the ships they had.

All the nice officer mods they fitt. With these changes it's gona change A LOT.

No one is gona fitt cool mods on it any more.
It will also end upp as "just another ship".

Motership where nice, and we loved them!

PLEASE GO BACK TO CHANGES THAT WHERE ON SISI LAST WEEK!

They where actaly nice, and balanced!

Zaethiel
Infinity Research
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:53:00 - [1044]
 

There seems to be alot of rumors atm. I would like to know how things are all around atm.

1.Are Super Carriers getting 10 drone max now?
2.Expl Radius on compacts still at 1000?
3.Damage reduced from 3600 to 3200?
4.It true that their price was reduced by 50%? (that really sucks i payed 17bill for mine a long time ago).

The 10 drone max is pretty crappy since drones are killed so easily, plus HICs are redicuously tanked; A Super Carrier probably doesn't stand any chance of actually soloing a HIC within a reasonable amount of time. A BS could tank 20 fighters with an active tank (currently), how can anyone expect a mothership to be useful going off of 50% less DPS when it couldn't even kill a Drake with max skills. I thought they were supposed to be capital killers, at least let them kill capitals; atm it seems like a carrier or dread could just tank a mothership without problem esp. if you count triage and siege.

Fleur D'oranger
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:54:00 - [1045]
 

Edited by: Fleur D''oranger on 13/11/2009 21:54:30
This thread has turned into comedy gold, truly.

One half of the knowledgable people are saying that these will never be used again and that will ruin eve.

The other half of the knowledgable people are saying we're going to be ass deep in them and it will ruin Eve.

Which is it?

Look, I can remember when you were a force of nature in this game if you could field 20 battleships. Battleship fights were like, whoa!

Bit later on, you paniced if a dread showed up. Then it was 10 dreads... 50 dreads... 100 dreads.

Hello? Capital fights are so 2008. Time for super-cap fights. Anything has to be better than the stagnant status quo of the few collecting way too much from way too many, no? I think it'd be awesome to watch AAA and Goon and IT throw SCs and Titans at each other until they were flat busted and back in empire. Woudldn't it?

JZIM
Caldari
Drakes With Frickin' Lazerbeams
Posted - 2009.11.13 21:55:00 - [1046]
 

30 minute supercapital redock timer please kthx

Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.13 22:00:00 - [1047]
 

Originally by: JZIM
30 minute supercapital redock timer please kthx


Aye. At the very least its time for different redock timers for different ship classes. I mean really, wouldn't it be more difficult to tractor a supercarrier into a station than a shuttle?

Ryan Coolness
The Littlest Hobos
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.11.13 22:01:00 - [1048]
 

Edited by: Ryan Coolness on 13/11/2009 22:10:42
Edited by: Ryan Coolness on 13/11/2009 22:05:15
Quote:

* Can deploy 2 additional Fighter or Drone per level


ok, fair enough, better then just 10, if DCU on SCs also add 2 per level instead of 1 there could even be an incentive to fit a few of them

Quote:

Furthermore we're looking into solutions to reimburse current mothership pilots for the drop in construction cost.



Thank you for listening, I'd still rather have you keep them expensive as they are now instead, but at least we aint being robbed, thats good


Quote:
* Can dock at stations


Together with the cost reduction this means the entry barrier to these ships got lowered by a lot.
They will be very common ships and nothing "special" any more, loses a lot of the "feeling" to piloting them for sure (not talking about balance issues even like the docking games mentioned above) you know, feeling like this:

Originally by: "CCP Abathur

"Perhaps no ships in EVE symbolize the majesty of the game more than the Nyx, Wyvern, Aeon and Hel."


Personally I'd prefer they stayed exclusive, with high entry requirements.

Plus a lot of people will prolly cancel their supercap pilots accounts, not because of emoragequit but because they aint needed any more with the docking possiblity, do you want that? It loses you money you know? :P

ericret
Posted - 2009.11.13 22:07:00 - [1049]
 

Originally by: JZIM
30 minute supercapital redock timer please kthx


This. It will be great to dock supercarriers, but make it so that you can't play docking games with them PLEASE!

Mnement'h
Amarr
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.11.13 22:07:00 - [1050]
 

This is getting absurd ... CCP if you want Dominion to hit TQ on Dec 1st without it imploding all together leave the moms in their current Apocrypha state, launch dominion and then work some more on the whole deal till you can make something that isn't a lame excuse for a design solution ...


oh and please let go of the spreadsheet and actually play the game for a change ... and I mean the game on TQ, not the devs-with-spreadsheets playpen on SiSi.


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