open All Channels
seplocked Test Server Feedback
blankseplocked Massive Supercarrier nerf intentional?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (52)

Author Topic

Vrenth
Gallente
The Program
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2009.11.11 11:09:00 - [1]
 

Shocked They were not particularly overpowered before this nerf, seeing as 90% of ships could speed tank them, bringing their dps down to that of equal or lower levels than traditional fighters. The only issues I saw with them having that many fighters was the visual lag created when missile effects were turned on and 20 of those bombs exploded at the same time.

With current figures, they are doing about 40-50% less dps. This brings them down to just above dreadnought damage. Judging their weapon systems are not only destructible, and it is easily shaved off by moving fast or being small... I'd say this nerf was poorly implemented or completely pointless.

If this ties in with motherships being the ship that eventually fills the field with the level of drones that the supercarrier used to field.. then I am okay with that, but the fighter bomber damage needs to dramatically increase. Losing the ability to field 20+ fighter/utility drones, I would say it needs to be raised to it's previous level, if not higher to maintain it's utility.

What this nerf has essentially done is taken away it's role and turned it in to a giant flying chunk of HP... which is only a slight improvement on the previously useless "mothership"

matrix666
Gallente
X.S. Industries
TSOE Consortium
Posted - 2009.11.11 13:00:00 - [2]
 

Can we get a comment from ccp as to this being a mistake or are they getting nerfed to to 10 fighters please?

Amy Wang
Posted - 2009.11.11 13:29:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Amy Wang on 11/11/2009 13:29:56
Originally by: Serena Ku
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources

If this doesn't change back I, too, will be selling a wyvern


I asked a GM in sisi about this as I also logged in and was suprised the Nyx only could launch 10. His response was it is a bug and would be fixed at the next downtime.

We can breathe guys... it's ok. Laughing


from: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1180138&page=14#392

not directly from CCP but it makes sense cause this being intentional would just be ridiculous, so chillax Cool

Serena Ku
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.11 14:00:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Amy Wang
Edited by: Amy Wang on 11/11/2009 13:29:56
Originally by: Serena Ku
Originally by: EdFromHumanResources

If this doesn't change back I, too, will be selling a wyvern


I asked a GM in sisi about this as I also logged in and was suprised the Nyx only could launch 10. His response was it is a bug and would be fixed at the next downtime.

We can breathe guys... it's ok. Laughing


from: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1180138&page=14#392

not directly from CCP but it makes sense cause this being intentional would just be ridiculous, so chillax Cool


Yes, that was me who asked. But this was before I noticed the description also was changed so I guess I am getting paranoid. Embarassed

Amy Wang
Posted - 2009.11.11 14:16:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Amy Wang on 11/11/2009 14:21:13
yes, I concur
Quote:

Amarr Carrier Skill Bonuses:
50% bonus to Capital Energy and Armor transfer range per level
5% bonus to all Armor resistances per level
Can fit Projected Electronic Counter Measures
Can deploy 1 additional Fighter or Drone per level
200% bonus to Fighter control range
Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
ShockedMadEvil or Very Mad

Also note the bandwidth changed from 12500 to 7500 allowing for a maximum of 15 drones/fighters (lvl 5 plus 5 DCUs nobody will fit anyway).

If this is intentional it makes no sense whatsoever, before moms were just overpriced carriers in essence, then they got the boost to make them worthwhile and now this nerf brings them back to overpriced carrier level??

Maybe the idea is to reduce lag by reducing the drone number, that would make sense kinda (although just making the compact-citadel-torp explosion less lag inducing would have dont that trick already lol).

But only if they add a 20% damage and hp bonus to drones/fighters/fighter-bombers per level!

That would actually at the same time reduce the impact smartbombs have on fighter-bombers which is probably a good side effect. And if the fighter-bay sizes stay it will also solve the problem with too little space for spares.

Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:36:00 - [6]
 

I just don't get it. Huge, mean looking, expensive to build .. a one time decision for a pilot to get into them and be stuck there unable to change ship. So why nerf them this badly? Their days of virtual invincibility is gone .. no one is going to conquer a quarter of null sec with four of them ever again no matter what you do. It looked for a few weeks like you had given them a role in the game again .. and now you back out? This change is ridiculous and uncalled for. Please reverse it.

NightHawk VenGarden
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:40:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: NightHawk VenGarden on 11/11/2009 16:40:58
Originally by: Mynas Atoch
I just don't get it. Huge, mean looking, expensive to build .. a one time decision for a pilot to get into them and be stuck there unable to change ship. So why nerf them this badly? Their days of virtual invincibility is gone .. no one is going to conquer a quarter of null sec with four of them ever again no matter what you do. It looked for a few weeks like you had given them a role in the game again .. and now you back out? This change is ridiculous and uncalled for. Please reverse it.


....quoting Mynas...something i never thought possible.

CCP, are you kidding? So now MOMS = Carriers in terms of fighter deployment for 10x's the price?

And fitting DCU's is a joke, a mom or a carrier without it's high-slots to remote repair in the new 'OMG EHP' age is insane.

This is just stupid CCP, people have been buying up moms everywhere and that alone should show you that even though they will have to do it with care, they want to fight with moms.....now you nerf them without announcement and without giving them a chance? This is ridiculous.

Sith8
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.11.11 16:51:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Mynas Atoch
I just don't get it. Huge, mean looking, expensive to build .. a one time decision for a pilot to get into them and be stuck there unable to change ship. So why nerf them this badly? Their days of virtual invincibility is gone .. no one is going to conquer a quarter of null sec with four of them ever again no matter what you do. It looked for a few weeks like you had given them a role in the game again .. and now you back out? This change is ridiculous and uncalled for. Please reverse it.


Quoting Minas

Ian Logalus
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:09:00 - [9]
 

Ooh god let this really be a bug... 10 fighters or drones on a mom... wtf :X
18b down the drain for a regular carrier with double dps :X

LordMordred
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:33:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: LordMordred on 13/11/2009 08:51:31
Not some random error then this:

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

This is insane. Reverse or upgrade with a 20% everything per level bonus for fighter bombers.

You gave these ships purpose for being again... now... ??? Maybe some friends are right in their attitude that Eve had a good run while it lasted not sure I'm there yet depends on your official reply.

Edit:

Everything about this is ******ed and insane beyond belief

I'm going to disregard the market impact and focus just on the pilot issue

Reducing the build cost will send proliferation threw the roof. We'll be seeing fleets of these things roaming the skies. The part that sucks about that: They're supposed to expensive and unique ships. Not your run of the mill ship. You decreasing their "specialness" to a point that's almost ******ed. This wouldn't have been so bad at the old build cost because the commitment required to put on the field would still be very high in terms of isk. And their DPS was high enough that these things would literally be ripping each other asunder. Losses would be high and the price would be high. This = GOOD. Proliferation = Bad CCP, head out of arse please.

The DPS Nerf by itself makes them pointless. Expensive ship = Unique ship. These are the roaming beasts of the sky and their presence should be felt. The cost and training invested here CAN NOT be understated. There are many who were looking forward to flying them in combat for the first time. And those of us who have had one since they were actually usable on the battlefield that have waited YEARS with it wasting away on a character to see their special ship, the goal they worked to achieve to finally be worth something again. And CCP suited both parties with their first plan quite well. Hopes were high... people were drinking... smiles on faces. Then... some guy who must be flying a spreadsheet who has no idea how the game actually functions in reality and implication of tactics comes along and makes arbitrary and pointless changes that resign the ship to slightly better but still completely worthless?

Then there is the market and builder issues: I'll just sum it up rather than completely disregard. You have made a change with out any warning, just a shotgun from the hip ill-thought through change to the cost and value of the ship that everyone thought was just fine and going live. You may not see how WRONG and hurtful that is to do... but you dropped this like an atom bomb with out so much as a "Surrender or Face Complete Destruction" letter.

And on a personal note it pains me to say that I have for the first time ever seriously given consideration to yanking myself away from this game. Why? Because I thought it had become clear that I was wrong and that CCP do still understand their own game and aren't on a course to self destruction because they were keeping their ranks filled with experience players as the main driving points for their ideas. Well this has me doubting my lack of doubt.


fairimear
Gallente
The Sp00Ks
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:36:00 - [11]
 

No. just No.

no pants
Black Hawk Down Syndrome
Posted - 2009.11.11 18:10:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: LordMordred
Not some random error then this:

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

This is insane. Reverse or upgrade with a 20% everything per level bonus for fighter bombers.

You gave these ships purpose for being again... now... ??? Maybe some friends are right in their attitude that Eve had a good run while it lasted not sure I'm there yet depends on your official reply.




someone hasnt read the thread :)

mineswallower
0utbreak
Posted - 2009.11.11 18:20:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: mineswallower on 11/11/2009 18:29:54
Sigh, I thought I would have a reason to actually use a Nyx again.

CCP, why dont you try listening to your game designers, who have actually played the game at this level and know about this stuff, rather than just running round screwing up the first decent change you have made in game play in about 3 years?

Impolite Andevil
New Dawn Corporation
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2009.11.11 18:20:00 - [14]
 

Wow. I have a hard time believing that this was unintentional or a bug since the ship attribute changed, the description changed, and the bandwidth changed. That said...

I was looking at getting a Mom/Supercarrier in Dominion. TBH, it was about the only thing left that really interested me. With this change, I think I will finally be done with Eve... I will be very interested in seeing what happens.

Manfred Sideous
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.11 18:26:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Manfred Sideous on 11/11/2009 18:30:47
CCP can you allow supercapitals to dock 1 time so they can be reprocessed. Because its alot of isk to be tied up in useless ships. This really is a serious request not a troll. It seems that you are not interested in giving players who invest lots of time in training and isk investment any true reward for said effort. So let us reprocess them and use the isk elsewhere because they are useless. I really get the impression that you are afraid to let anyone or anything stand out.

Carrier = 1 bil

Supercarrier = 13-15 bil

Shouldnt the supercarrier be like 10 times more lethal and tough?

Titan = 60 billion

10 min refire on superweapon and 2.5 times dps on guns than a dread. Seriously are you kidding.

My corp is pretty poor we dont have any T2 bpo collection we dont hold endless moon gold. We dont have a industry division to crank out isk but yet we have invested over 200 billion isk in supers because they are supposed to be end-game. With every nerf you have made to them you have relegated them to Trophies and POS ornaments at best.


Edit* added more clarification of my point.

Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.11.11 18:49:00 - [16]
 

It makes no sence to me to tune th dps down. One might argue that allainces could bring 25 moms to dominate battlefields, but the next day a smart fc has asquad of stealthbombers declawing those moms, or some snipehacs taking out bombers.

Their dps has a counterpart, but what good are they if they do no more dps then a dread?

Sniperpirate
Minmatar
Infinite Improbability Inc
Posted - 2009.11.11 18:55:00 - [17]
 

The MS was broken, first you change the name into something meaningless, I can bear with this, even though it is a cheat into creating another ship class.

Then you nerf the drones, which is the only damage output the ship has? First i thought 20 fighter bombers no supplementary drones. This is a joke but i could find some small reason to do this. But now 10 drones only, might as well use a carrier cos its cheaper and does the same job.

The titan doomsday wasn't overpowered to being with, only dumb pilots die to it. If your aligned you can warp out with no to minimal losses. The AOE was taken out to be replaced with Single Target, i dont like the move but its liveable just. Next you change the timer from 5 mins to 10 mins, I thought the whole point of dominion was non stop PVP not a lag fest which is what your creating, every time a titan fires off its super weapon.

Nemisis666
Posted - 2009.11.11 19:02:00 - [18]
 

Oh sweet, more idling for my Mothership pilot. It's not like I've been waiting for a year to find a justification to field the thing and die horribly in a blaze of glory.

Nemi.

Kell Braugh
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.11.11 19:29:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Kell Braugh on 11/11/2009 19:31:00
Price and performance is not a linear equation, especially in eve where people will spend 100000% (2mil vs 2BIL) more isk for 20% more performance. (Look at deadspace Boosters/Reps if need an example)

edit: Although I agree that supercarriers should pwn, using the price argument is fallacy

Lynn de'Marco
Divine Power.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2009.11.11 19:58:00 - [20]
 

this has to be a joke......

the whole point in boosting moms was to make them worth their cost and now they're being nerfed again.


so basically against sub caps they're now equal to carrier
against capitals they're slightly better than dreads

tbh if this doesn't change i got a nyx for sale.... at least i can use the ISK to cyno jam my station system for a few months.....

Dri Kulsane
Amarr
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.11 20:14:00 - [21]
 

I'll take my post here, since this seems to be what's needed.

There is no respect in making a change like this. Bad enough it was decided that such glorious ships were down graded to a sub class level at the start, but now the decision to take us all from behind while we were smiling.

I've been an Aeon pilot for a long time. I've held onto the ship through tick and thin. For the past few years I've trained one character to use that ship to the best of it's abilities, just like so many others here posting. I know what they are capable of, and with this change you are reducing them to nothing all over again.

If it's an isk sink you were in need of CCP, then you just pulled the wool over a lot of peoples eyes here with this. Imagine how many Mothership's have been sold in the past few weeks since the original announcement was posted about them being "FIXED". Well, all those people just sank their isks into an area of the game which will never be used again as it stands.

Sincerely,
Dri Kulsane Confused

Vuk Lau
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.11 20:28:00 - [22]
 

I will just say two words - WTF?

Seriously guys stop focking nerfing supercaps. Removing DD - ok I can live with it, but nerfing initially crappy supercarriers, and not to mention castrating titans and then nerfing them to hell is utterly stupid.

So please stop doing that, or no one will fly them which means they will not die at all. Dont blame playerbase for not following CCP vision of only 5 titans in total in New Eden.

Traderjohn
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.11 20:41:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Traderjohn on 11/11/2009 20:41:20
This is pointless. You set a role for a mothership / Super carrier. Then you destroy its role by only allowing 10 drones. Why do people train up carrier 5 then? Might aswell fly a normal carrier.

Pritty pointless role now

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.11 20:42:00 - [24]
 

seriouspost if you're some random dude developer who's never flown a mothership you need to back away slowly and let someone who actually has a clue what he's doing handle this

ok peace out~

Thaeus
Black Serpent Technologies
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2009.11.11 20:42:00 - [25]
 

Yeah as I've said not worth my time. I've had this Wyvern for almost 2 years now, through the worst of it (on my alt) waiting for a chance when it made sense to use it because it was actually a formidable weapon. Now it's nothing but an embarrassing waste of time and isk that will never get used other than to ferry a few BS's around.

Agmar
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.11 20:46:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Agmar on 11/11/2009 20:47:22
I think constructive criticism is more valid than calling CCP and their families ******ed.

Having said that, I'm wondering if we could get CCP's rationality behind this change so that we could have a decent dialogue.

Edit- I'd have to assume that they'd only do this to reduce server load, and they'll be adding in a massive damage bonus per level or a role bonus. Similar to when they nerfed NPC RoF and increased volley damage... right? RIGHT?!?

Murkelost
Gallente
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.11.11 20:49:00 - [27]
 

I am not surprised of another nerf, however this seems way out of league.

CCP has done alot of nerfs in previous history which has not been to satisfying for the gameplay, and they don't seem to learn that nerfing
is a poor way of trying to fix things.

Improve and balance should be the way Wink

MakkAnzy
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.11.11 20:52:00 - [28]
 

You get us all excited about being able to use our motherships again.
Then you sneak in the nerf on the test server a few weeks before the launch.
I await the official response on this issue.

I just wanted CCP to know that the ship is yet again pointless to even deploy with the nerf in place.

Thaeus
Black Serpent Technologies
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2009.11.11 20:55:00 - [29]
 

I agree with you. However, the nerfing went too far as it stands. Bad enough titans got ransacked (which I can live with tbh) but Moms? They were always crappy (specially the Wyvern) and rarely got fielded when there was any amount of risk involved... now we won't see them at all.

Genevieve Mitsuda
Perkone
Posted - 2009.11.11 21:00:00 - [30]
 

+1 Supercarrier pilot who now firmly believes he flies an overpriced (by 15 times) carrier.


Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (52)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only