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Kara Mitsui
Perkone
Posted - 2009.11.08 23:16:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Kara Mitsui on 08/11/2009 23:19:43
You really ought to be glad that you've found a corp with some discipline and a clue. If you stick with them you'll probably learn a lot.

But you have to lose this 'i pay with my money so I can do whatever I want' attitude. Corps are groups of people working together, and there will be plenty of times you have to spend time in-game doing things you would rather not. Fuelling poses, mining, sometimes they might jack tax up to 100% and make you go ratting for a day to bump up corp income... these are all perfectly normal 'chores' that you have to deal with if you want to get the most out of your monthly sub. The reward is the chance to become a valuable part of a team that actually accomplishes things, and that's 100x more rewarding than just doing your own thing.

As for the drake fleet issue, it all depends on whether or not they were excluding you from jsut that fleet or it was something more serious. If it was just that fleet, then that's prefectly normal. A remote-rep drake gang is a specialised group that doesn't require a lot of support the way a normal BS fleet would - drakes are pretty good at tackling one their own and they make nice scouts, too, as long as you realise that scout==bait. But having people join in in different ships, meh, it just spoils the whole thing.

You will find lots of fleets like this - T1 cruiser gangs, Assault Frig gangs, Destroyer gangs.... these are all great fun but if you're not flying the right ship it kind of ruins it for everyone else.

Believe me, in the long term it's far better to have leadership who will impose discipline on a fleet, instead of the opposite where they don't care what you bring. In the former case you will get practise at executing specific strategies and you will win more fights than you lose, even outnumbered. In the latter case you will have no strategy at all, you won't get respect if your only tactic is to bring more d00ds. And you will lose every fight against more organised fleets.

Finally, you don't need to be Caldari to fly a drake. In fact, the drake is one of those multipurpose ships that can do so many things reasonably well without a huge amount of training, I would recommend every pilot should be able to fly one.

Maik Sarsei
Posted - 2009.11.09 00:59:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Maik Sarsei on 09/11/2009 01:00:23
Originally by: IsThatSo
Hi,

I have a wierd situation here, i've recently joined in a 0.0 operating corporation aaaand, as soon as i joined they told me that a drake gang will be formed for some action. I told them I dont have drake skills and i'm not caldari either, and the guy gave me that look and said 'you can't join fleet then'...

my question is; how can anyone tell me how should i do spend my money? i'm paying for the game, i think i should have the right to play it my way, am i right?

Playing with other people you can't always have your way. You will have to follow some basic rules and compromise at times. It is kind of like relationships in real life with friends/roommates/girlfriend/wife. Just because you pay your bills does not mean that you should have complete freedom to do whatever you like.

In game the fleet commander has a say of who can and cannot join his fleet. Mind you he also pays $15 monthly to have his fun. So either learn to compromise and play with other people, or go play alone.


Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:18:00 - [33]
 

You should just tag along in a ECM Bursting frigate.

gambrinous
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:03:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: gambrinous on 09/11/2009 05:06:37
Originally by: IsThatSo
Hi,

I have a wierd situation here, i've recently joined in a 0.0 operating corporation aaaand, as soon as i joined they told me that a drake gang will be formed for some action. I told them I dont have drake skills and i'm not caldari either, and the guy gave me that look and said 'you can't join fleet then'...

my question is; how can anyone tell me how should i do spend my money? i'm paying for the game, i think i should have the right to play it my way, am i right?


Most corps will tell you what to fly, but not in the "fly a drake" sense, only in the "this is a battle cruiser gang, bring a bc, long range, passive tank" sort of way. But on top of that, I've NEVER seen an FC refuse some extra tackle in gang (or is this lowsec).

ps to date I've never heard an fc request drakes lol, but I've heard "you bought a ****ing drake? you **** $(@& ^^$#&* &@(#& &*#(($& ($)@(*$&^(*)) &*($^&#&^*^# idiot.

Clueless Alt
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:34:00 - [35]
 

You just escaped a failfleet, be glad.

Corduroy Rab
Chaos Reborn
Posted - 2009.11.09 05:47:00 - [36]
 

You have the right to play the game your way. They have the right to do the same and they have the right to not want to play with you.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.11.09 06:43:00 - [37]
 

... or you could wait until tomorrow when they form an all interceptor gang, or an all battleship gang, or an EW and hac gang.

A consistent fleet organization or theme is important for the survival and success of the whole group.

If you don't understand this, you are a liability rather than an asset.


Rhanna Khurin
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2009.11.09 06:53:00 - [38]
 

Why would anyone purposely want a gang consisting entirely of drakes? Surely this is what most FC's try and avoid.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.11.09 08:09:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Rhanna Khurin
Why would anyone purposely want a gang consisting entirely of drakes? Surely this is what most FC's try and avoid.



Not in the least. A gang of 40-50 drakes, with some HICs & Scimitars and scouts, is horrifyingly effective. Gotta love that ~80Km range with 414 DPS HMLs. Gotta love assigning 200 Warrior IIs to the inty in the gang. Gotta love a cheap (27M in empire), insurable ship that can soak up 50-60k EHP, and has great resists so the scimitars are extra effective (especially now that medium rigs are lolcheap. 1 EM resist + 2x CDFE ftw)

And check out the align time of a Drake (7.4s) vs say a Zealot (7.3s). The drake gang can move around pretty much as fast as a HAC gang.

FCs will rightly dislike 4x SPR 250 DPS no tackle brick drakes. A properly fitted drake is an excellent addition to almost any medium gang.

Colonel Xaven
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.09 08:47:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: IsThatSo
Hi,

I have a wierd situation here, i've recently joined in a 0.0 operating corporation aaaand, as soon as i joined they told me that a drake gang will be formed for some action. I told them I dont have drake skills and i'm not caldari either, and the guy gave me that look and said 'you can't join fleet then'...

my question is; how can anyone tell me how should i do spend my money? i'm paying for the game, i think i should have the right to play it my way, am i right?


Nobody told you to train those skills ("you can't join then" does not mean "you have to skill that").

But to join a Drake fleet you should be able to fly a Drake w/ fitting. Same goes for Badger fleets. There is no point in "Hey, let's join a Drake fleet with my Harbinger".

Besides that I guess every 0.0 corp claims the right to dictate some basic skills depending on what the corp / alliance goals are, i.e. to participate in a fleet ship you need to be able to fit a certain loadout.

Being in a corp actually means to support your corp in every possible way, that's the deal. Love it or leave it.

(But training for a Drake is indeed pointless if not just for fun.)

Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.11.09 10:03:00 - [41]
 

This is such classic win. New 0.0 player joins up and instantly doesn't want to do what his corporation mates are doing and:
-Has a fit and goes emo over "my money"
-Makes an alt to rant, which means he's been steaming for awhile
-Posts on GD

Originally by: IsThatSo
So in corporations there is only 1 man who dictates the rules, no matter what the corporation members say or like?


Pretty much how all good corporations and alliances work, some try to rule by a council and most aren't very successful, one leader makes things extremely easy as decisions can be made quickly and carried out easily.

Your arrogance that you don't have to follow anyone's rules is shocking, maybe being a solo pirate is for you.

Tiny Tove
Posted - 2009.11.09 10:05:00 - [42]
 

My corp was forming a mining op. I've only trained for Invention, and they said I couldn't join group. :(

Locke DieDrake
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.09 10:43:00 - [43]
 

I've never seen a 0.0 corp that didn't have at least some basic rules about what to train and in what priority. Especially for nublets. The best of them will explain this upfront, and hold your hand through the process so that when you are done, you are a killing machine.

However, that being said, nothing you've said indicated that you were in some way being forced to do anything. Just because they excluded you from this particular op doesn't mean they don't want you at all.

Back when I was a nub and joined my first 00 corp, they "forced" me to train tackling skills and dragged me away from my ratting to go on fleet ops. They also provided the ship and fittings and told me what to do. This is how I learned to tackle, and from watching, I learned how gangs work, from small fast groups to large tower flattening groups. I got to see my first cap ship in action, and from the chats I learned all about tactics and mechanics that as a nublet, you can't even begin to imagine. It also inspired me to become an elite tackler, flying inties and later dictors.

Now, many millions of skill points later, no one complains when I tell them I can't bring an armor tanked BS with guns on it. Do you want a raven? NO? OK, how about an inty? HIC? HAC? RECON? Logistics? One of the above is always welcome.

The thing about 00 corps, and all corps really is that you have to prove you aren't in the game for just you, you have to prove you are in it for the group. If you can't figure out what they are providing that is worth having, then you are either hopelessly foolish, or you got a bad corp. Most likely some of each. However, you find a good corp, and prove you are willing to help in any way you can, and they will take care of you. Even if your contribution is less than ideal, it's the spirit that truly counts. Sure this also means you'll be left out of some ops, but that is as much for your own good as it is everyone else.

gambrinous
Posted - 2009.11.09 13:04:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Locke DieDrake
no one complains when I tell them I can't bring an armor tanked BS with guns on it. Do you want a raven? NO? OK, how about an inty? HIC? HAC? RECON? Logistics? One of the above is always welcome.


That's what I don't get about the OP. But hey, probably need to go learn how to operate drakes of agony :P

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2009.11.09 13:08:00 - [45]
 

I would have trained caldari cruiser III then used a lazor drake or something.

I'm quite serious btw.

Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar
Dead poets society
The Laughing Men
Posted - 2009.11.09 13:24:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
I would have trained caldari cruiser III then used a lazor drake or something.

I'm quite serious btw.


Or perhaps a surprise RR/ECM Hull tanked drake

Hairy RingPiece
Posted - 2009.11.09 14:51:00 - [47]
 

That's what happens when there's only 1 corp in Eve taking new recruits.

Captain Tardbar
State Protectorate
Posted - 2009.11.09 15:08:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: IsThatSo
my question is; how can anyone tell me how should i do spend my money? i'm paying for the game, i think i should have the right to play it my way, am i right?


Maybe because the Drake has superior passive tanking skills compared to any other class of comparable ships.

And you are wasting their time by not flying one... Ergo... You should rag quit and give all your stuff away.

Yhalasia Khurin
Posted - 2009.11.09 15:15:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Captain Tardbar
Originally by: IsThatSo
my question is; how can anyone tell me how should i do spend my money? i'm paying for the game, i think i should have the right to play it my way, am i right?


Maybe because the Drake has superior passive tanking skills compared to any other class of comparable ships.

And you are wasting their time by not flying one... Ergo... You should rag quit and give all your stuff away.


Because having a fleet of loldps ships with no tackle but can tank really well is good amirite?

Christina Bamar
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:16:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Yhalasia Khurin
Originally by: Captain Tardbar
Originally by: IsThatSo
my question is; how can anyone tell me how should i do spend my money? i'm paying for the game, i think i should have the right to play it my way, am i right?


Maybe because the Drake has superior passive tanking skills compared to any other class of comparable ships.

And you are wasting their time by not flying one... Ergo... You should rag quit and give all your stuff away.


Because having a fleet of loldps ships with no tackle but can tank really well is good amirite?


Because no one would ever bring a couple tacklers along with such a fleet, that would just be insane amirite?

As far as the OP goes, if you insist on doing what you want to do regardless of the rest of your corp then you're a liability not an asset, it's really that simple. You're the new guy, it's your job to fit in, not the entire corp's job to adjust to what you want to do.

You have 3 options when you don't like what your corp is doing.

1) Emorage quit
2) Shut up and go with the flow
3) Try to intelligently make your point about why everyone else is wrong

In this case there isn't really an option for point 3 because they're not wrong, they just want to fly a drake fleet.

Shmeria
Posted - 2009.11.09 23:12:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Vaal Erit

Originally by: IsThatSo
So in corporations there is only 1 man who dictates the rules, no matter what the corporation members say or like?


Pretty much how all good corporations and alliances work, some try to rule by a council and most aren't very successful, one leader makes things extremely easy as decisions can be made quickly and carried out easily.

Your arrogance that you don't have to follow anyone's rules is shocking, maybe being a solo pirate is for you.


He's just upset because they're all Communists Laughing

ShardowRhino
Caldari
Torque Theory
Posted - 2009.11.10 04:29:00 - [52]
 


Is this thread a troll? Maybe, but I am sure there are people that actually have found themselves in such a "problem".


First off, if someone wants to start up a certain type of fleet, it's their baby, they control how things are done. You have a choice of joining them, or doing something else. If you cannot meet the requirements for the fleet then you are going to be doing something else for the time being.


The real problem is if, and i mean IF the corp you are in only uses drakes 100% of the time, or even 50% without a need for any other type of ship such as tacklers or covert ops,ecm, and so on. If that is not the case, bite your tounge when they do drake only ops, or simply skill for one. It's your choice, just as it is the FC's choice to put together a certain type of fleet. Hell it can be a Kestrel only fleet if he wants. You could always start your own fleet for those not looking for drake pvp action.


Corps that require certain skills should be upfront about it. It is a waste of their time to recruit people that do not fit, nor wish to skill to fit certain roles. I doubt every fleet is 100% drakes, so find one that is not 100% or inquire about the chances of such. If there is never anything but drake fleets then feel free to find a corp that offers what you want out of the game. Do not expect a group of people to give a care about what a new individual wants or thinks, so don't expect to change their style to fit your tastes.


It's all about choice. you can choose to skill a drake, you can choose to start your own fleet, you can choose to do something else, you can choose to stay, and you can choose to leave. You aren't married to them, you don't owe them any more then they owe you, which is absolute nothing. Sure it might suck, or sting when you find yourself on the outside, but you have choices so make them.


At worst you learned that you need to ask more questions before joining another corp. Theres loads of corps out there so just start looking for something that fits what you want out of the game.

Ignitious Hellfury
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
Posted - 2009.11.10 04:40:00 - [53]
 

A lot of alliances/corps these days have drake only gangs... They will do other things as well. If you think you're seriously missing out then train for a drake, otherwise while they're out pewpewin you can go look for officer spawns.

m3rb3aSt
Minmatar
Advanced Component Research Enterprise
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.10 05:26:00 - [54]
 

corps or alliances which penalize people for not being able to fly what they want are always pretty terrible

Kara Mitsui
Perkone
Posted - 2009.11.10 07:36:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: m3rb3aSt
corps or alliances which penalize people for not being able to fly what they want are always pretty terrible


Mostly that's true. In certain situations I will be a prick about it... lets say when you are facing up to the same opposition every day for a while and you learn their tactics and formulate something to beat them - well it's going to **** me off if I'm the FC and 1/4 of my pilots keep turning up in ships that don't fit the plan and we keep getting beat.

But in the OPs case, it sounded to me like it was just a case of 'today we are running a lol drake fleet so if you don't have one, do something else and see you tomorrow for our regular roam'. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Brayiel
Perkone
Posted - 2009.11.10 10:48:00 - [56]
 

Just train BC 1 and lvl 1/2 skills to get in it and fit it with, I dunno, projectiles, just for the fun of it.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.11.10 12:25:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Brayiel
Just train BC 1 and lvl 1/2 skills to get in it and fit it with, I dunno, projectiles, just for the fun of it.


WTB: drake with turret slots


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