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Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.10 19:53:00 - [2941]
 

Originally by: Orthaen
Originally by: Qlanth


I still think however than if you want to fix 0.0 money making you need to fix those anomalies so that all anomalies are worth running because they are on par with belt ratting (the top tier is better, the majority is on par, the bottom tier is slightly worse but you need to finish them for a new one to spawn) or else I will just keep on belt ratting because I can make more ISK more reliably.


People in this thread, from testing, and CCP responses have indicated that this is what will happen. The anomalies quality will be at least on par with ratting, once you've upgraded them. Ideally, better.

On the topic of 0.0 mining being worthless....why? Is it the logistics, or getting the ore refined? ABC ores are 2-3 times more profitable then mining in hi-sec. I know, a lot of poor trusec systems have absolutely laughable ores, but grav sites are always better then the resident ores, meaning they would be primarily ABC ores in 0.0 grav sites, with some dark ochre, gneiss, and mercoxit on the site.


Because of the drone regions and drone compounds in general mineral prices have been steadily crashing. ABC ores are not worth as much as they were a year ago and actually if you crunch the numbers Veldspar is probably the 4th best ore to mine.

Niamota Olin
Posted - 2009.11.10 19:54:00 - [2942]
 

The essence of complaints is simple.

dominion will turn people who enjoy pvping in 0.0 into pve'ers due to the need of isk from individuals.

No matter how many times people say adapt or whatever, people play a GAME for there fun, if there fun is pvp how is forcing them to change play style good for the game?

And the whole ting about getting bears to come into 0.0.. thats just the same in reverse, if your in 0.0 your going to find pvp whether you like it or not, thus it turns pve'ers into pvpers.

Forget the isk per hour arguments, this is about ccp FORCING us to play how they want to fit there game.

ie

no more sandbox, its a becoming a controlled playpen like every other mmo.

Pointfive
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:06:00 - [2943]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire

R64 income goes into helping pay for alliance upkeep, not personal wallets. If there's an alliance out there that you can show me that supplies there people's PVP ships, please show me who it is.


From alies i know? TRI (prolly back again due to dyspro), PL, most (if not all) of NC, im quite sure -A- and you do it too. It is called "ship reimbursement program" which de facto is moving alliance isk (in form of assets) to players wallets (hands).

An


Yes if you lose a ship doing an important fight you will get some of your isk reimbursed. Pretty much the only fights deemed important are the fights that protect the r64s themselves. Pretty much everyone trying to defend 0.0 isk income and say that level 4s being better than the vast majority are just super mad because they somehow think all 0.0 players just sit around getting rich off moon goo. They dont. Maybe a few do. And some people who are lucky enough can get money off of complexes. The average palyer is making less than level 4s and this is not right. Making the game so you spend your time on an alt in empire making cash so you can go back to 0.0 and be able to fight again is just sad.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:07:00 - [2944]
 

Originally by: Shawna Gray
Lol. Pretty much everyone who can't cut it in 0.0 has a empire alt to make isk, or at the very least rats/mines etc.

Fixed that typo for you.

NickSuccorso
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:09:00 - [2945]
 

Quote:
From alies i know? TRI (prolly back again due to dyspro), PL, most (if not all) of NC, im quite sure -A- and you do it too. It is called "ship reimbursement program" which de facto is moving alliance isk (in form of assets) to players wallets (hands).


Pretty sure nobody gives 100% reimbursement on everything, nor do they shower members with ships at no cost.

Marchocias
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:10:00 - [2946]
 

Wooooo! Almost 100 pages to this threadnaught already!

Everyone.... get ready to link arms and drunkenly sing Auld Lang Syne!

ep1k
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:12:00 - [2947]
 

Dont increase 0.0 income because i want my level 4 alt to make me money forever. I am also a big baby who has never been in a large 0.0 alliance and thinks the average player get nonstop free money from moons.

gambrinous
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:12:00 - [2948]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 10/11/2009 19:47:04
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 10/11/2009 19:43:38
Originally by: NickSuccorso

R64 income goes into helping pay for alliance upkeep, not personal wallets. If there's an alliance out there that you can show me that supplies there people's PVP ships, please show me who it is.


From alies i know? TRI (prolly back again due to dyspro), PL, most (if not all) of NC, im quite sure -A- and you do it too. It is called "ship reimbursement program" which de facto is moving alliance isk (in form of assets) to players wallets (hands).


Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm in one of those alliances, my ships aren't reimbursed

Ships are only reimbursed on approved ops (generally just an official FC) but even then, not all ships. Caps? NO, HACS? NO Recons? NO

So best case scenario is full reimbursement if I only ever PVP when there's an official fleet formed, and only if I fly a sub cap that is on a list. Yay.

I dunno wtf is wrong with all you trolls. This thread is now just ghey with people that don't know what they are talking about.

xxxak
Caldari
Intergalactic Syndicate
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:16:00 - [2949]
 

Originally by: Quesa
Edited by: Quesa on 06/11/2009 22:57:11
Nothing I have seen so far has even come close to SUGGESTING we will be able to find activity for even 50 people for more than an hour in a single, fully upgraded system.

1 person can clear 4 anoms in an hour.

2 people can clear a DED 7-9/10 plex in an hour.

Mining is **** until you fix Grav sites and give us a reason to actually mine VELD.

All I've seen are enough activities to keep 20-30 people busy for 3-4 hours.

I'm begging you to explain how you even came CLOSE to the number of 100-150 being able to keep themselves busy in a single upgraded system. I'm not trolling, I REALLY REALLY REALLY want you to explain to us how this is even remotely possible.


This really.

Verlisia
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:16:00 - [2950]
 

lol more goon tears please I've children to feed lolLaughing

Niamota Olin
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:20:00 - [2951]
 

Here is some constructive criticism for ccp

The first person in your next dev meeting to use a buzz word like synergy or dynamic...

Fire them.

gambrinous
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:21:00 - [2952]
 

Personal attack is not allowed.Applebabe

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:21:00 - [2953]
 

Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 10/11/2009 20:25:29
Originally by: gambrinous

Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm in one of those alliances, my ships aren't reimbursed

Ships are only reimbursed on approved ops (generally just an official FC) but even then, not all ships. Caps? NO, HACS? NO Recons? NO

So best case scenario is full reimbursement if I only ever PVP when there's an official fleet formed, and only if I fly a sub cap that is on a list. Yay.



You know whats the funniest part about this thread? People contradict themselves all the time. But when they contradict themselves in one post - this is just comedy gold.

EDIT:
And a bit back at 1st post on this page
Quote:
If he can't even get cyno jammers and stuff untill WAAYYY late in his systems development, how the heck is he ever going to last that long?


You see, the issue is you (as in you = players) just killed your own immunity by... reducing SOV costs. When clear system costed 300m/month just to keep sov it meant noone would really try and take it from you coz keeping it to yourself would cost them a bit. Now with reduced sov costs it is again feasible just to sov up all systems within 100 jumps so noone else sits there. Whats funnier keeping sov will be even EASIER now than before. 30m/month is less than small tower costs.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:24:00 - [2954]
 

Edited by: Gnulpie on 10/11/2009 20:24:34
Edit: Failpost

Pointfive
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:25:00 - [2955]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: gambrinous

Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm in one of those alliances, my ships aren't reimbursed

Ships are only reimbursed on approved ops (generally just an official FC) but even then, not all ships. Caps? NO, HACS? NO Recons? NO

So best case scenario is full reimbursement if I only ever PVP when there's an official fleet formed, and only if I fly a sub cap that is on a list. Yay.



You know whats the funniest part about this thread? People contradict themselves all the time. But when they contradict themselves in one post - this is just comedy gold.


Are you daft? Some ships are reimbursed most are not. Maybe he was flying one that isnt. Shocked You decide to go do some pvp on your own? No reimbursement. You decide to form a big gang? No reimbursement. Get ganked doing any form of pve? No reimbursement. If you fly a specific ship for a very specific flight. You get some of your loss reduced. You still lose isk. Woah man these freakin moons make 0.0 and isk fountain for the average man.

Kepakh
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:25:00 - [2956]
 

Originally by: xxxak
Originally by: Quesa
Edited by: Quesa on 06/11/2009 22:57:11
Nothing I have seen so far has even come close to SUGGESTING we will be able to find activity for even 50 people for more than an hour in a single, fully upgraded system.

1 person can clear 4 anoms in an hour.

2 people can clear a DED 7-9/10 plex in an hour.

Mining is **** until you fix Grav sites and give us a reason to actually mine VELD.

All I've seen are enough activities to keep 20-30 people busy for 3-4 hours.

I'm begging you to explain how you even came CLOSE to the number of 100-150 being able to keep themselves busy in a single upgraded system. I'm not trolling, I REALLY REALLY REALLY want you to explain to us how this is even remotely possible.


This really.


Until there are space upgrades on Sisi or there is another devblog released you can only troll like Quesa does.

So far we can only say that you will gain guarateed 230 man hours of anomaly grinding per max military upgraded system.
Not much info on hidden belts, mini-profession sites, complexes or such.

Hrin
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:26:00 - [2957]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
page 100 snipa!

(always wanted to do that Very Happy)


30 posts in a page

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:27:00 - [2958]
 

Adapt or die.


Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:28:00 - [2959]
 

Originally by: Pointfive
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: gambrinous

Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm in one of those alliances, my ships aren't reimbursed

Ships are only reimbursed on approved ops (generally just an official FC) but even then, not all ships. Caps? NO, HACS? NO Recons? NO

So best case scenario is full reimbursement if I only ever PVP when there's an official fleet formed, and only if I fly a sub cap that is on a list. Yay.



You know whats the funniest part about this thread? People contradict themselves all the time. But when they contradict themselves in one post - this is just comedy gold.


Are you daft? Some ships are reimbursed most are not. Maybe he was flying one that isnt. Shocked You decide to go do some pvp on your own? No reimbursement. You decide to form a big gang? No reimbursement. Get ganked doing any form of pve? No reimbursement. If you fly a specific ship for a very specific flight. You get some of your loss reduced. You still lose isk. Woah man these freakin moons make 0.0 and isk fountain for the average man.


Are you stupid? If SOME ships are reimbursed then he IS reimbursed. So his first line is a blatant lie. I wrote about reimbursement at all not full or whatever. Which he confirmed - in some cases he gets ship back = reimbursement program exists.

Ivanna Nuke
Gallente
Holders Of The Cowbell
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:28:00 - [2960]
 

It all relates to cowbell.

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:32:00 - [2961]
 

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Lol. Pretty much everyone who can't cut it in 0.0 has a empire alt to make isk, or at the very least rats/mines etc.

Fixed that typo for you.


Lol you are not "special" if you can make some isk in 0.0. But if you are smart you put your monemaking char where he can do an optimal job, and thats in empire.

Niamota Olin
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:33:00 - [2962]
 

Most ship reimbursement programs I know of are a falisy, they normally relate to t1 ships and you get back isk relating to insurance payout's. So with insurance and a boost you can normally get a hull back easily and reinsure it (sometimes) but mods are lost and its all t1 only in many cases.

Ship reimbursement is a bad name for it.

Gordon Reiss
Double-Down
Demolition Notice
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:33:00 - [2963]
 

Got 99 problems...

Sen Roo
Gallente
Net 7
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:34:00 - [2964]
 

Edited by: Sen Roo on 10/11/2009 20:39:02
Um no. The Dominion expansion is not going going to force PvPers into PvErs. What you are going to have to do is recruit someindustrial corps into your nullsec space and use your Mad PvP skill[/right]z to safe guard them while they make you isk and build your ships. Kinda like in real life the military guards the borders of a nation so its citizens can live and work in peace. Oh and those who are complaining and saying that Dominion won't work? Unless you give at least one constructive idea for fixing what they are doing you all are just *****ing and whining.Rolling Eyes

Edit: Formating

Halaxi
Caldari
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:34:00 - [2965]
 

In breaking news, CCP responds to the issues raised since their last reply god knows how many pages ago, acknowledging the points raised, and stating their intended course of action.

Oh wait...my bad, I was daydreaming again Embarassed

Not many days left until December 1st CCP, it would be nice to have even a simple 'hey guys, we've looked at what you've said, we're working on it' before then.

Hal.

Pointfive
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:34:00 - [2966]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
Adapt or die.




This patch hurts major alliances not at all. 0.0 income still isnt that great, small alliances still will not be attracted to come out. Adapt to what? Crappy game design? No one will be dying as much as you seem to be getting yourself off with tought of it.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:36:00 - [2967]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 10/11/2009 20:39:08
Originally by: Kepakh
So far we can only say that you will gain guarateed 230 man hours of anomaly grinding per max military upgraded system.
We can't even say that. We get a potential 230MH of anomalies per maxed system.
Originally by: Sen Roo
Um no. The Dominion expansion is not going going to force PvPers into PvErs. What you are going to have to do is recruit some industrial corps into your nullsec space and use your Mad PvP skillz to safe guard them while they make you isk and build your ships.
The problem is that the Dominion expansion fails to give you anything to entice them into accepting that kind of recruitment offer.

gambrinous
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:36:00 - [2968]
 

Edited by: gambrinous on 10/11/2009 20:47:24
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 10/11/2009 20:25:29
Originally by: gambrinous

Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm in one of those alliances, my ships aren't reimbursed

Ships are only reimbursed on approved ops (generally just an official FC) but even then, not all ships. Caps? NO, HACS? NO Recons? NO

So best case scenario is full reimbursement if I only ever PVP when there's an official fleet formed, and only if I fly a sub cap that is on a list. Yay.



You know whats the funniest part about this thread? People contradict themselves all the time. But when they contradict themselves in one post - this is just comedy gold.

EDIT:
And a bit back at 1st post on this page
Quote:
If he can't even get cyno jammers and stuff untill WAAYYY late in his systems development, how the heck is he ever going to last that long?


You see, the issue is you (as in you = players) just killed your own immunity by... reducing SOV costs. When clear system costed 300m/month just to keep sov it meant noone would really try and take it from you coz keeping it to yourself would cost them a bit. Now with reduced sov costs it is again feasible just to sov up all systems within 100 jumps so noone else sits there. Whats funnier keeping sov will be even EASIER now than before. 30m/month is less than small tower costs.


well since I mainly fly caps in fleet ops (as that's what is asked for) so it's pretty accurate. the best case scenario should illustrate why it's necessary to earn isk, but I guess that went over your head (hint: because it's a pretty **** option) u think I should only pvp when there is an official fleet up? srs what is with the trolls now

also re 1st post: I meant it's not just goons, it's everyone that has a modicum of common sense

E: m.o.d.i.c.u.m is censored lol, I hear there's gonna be an option to turn off swear filter in dominion, patch is now good, **** 0.0

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:39:00 - [2969]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Pointfive
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: gambrinous

Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm in one of those alliances, my ships aren't reimbursed

Ships are only reimbursed on approved ops (generally just an official FC) but even then, not all ships. Caps? NO, HACS? NO Recons? NO

So best case scenario is full reimbursement if I only ever PVP when there's an official fleet formed, and only if I fly a sub cap that is on a list. Yay.



You know whats the funniest part about this thread? People contradict themselves all the time. But when they contradict themselves in one post - this is just comedy gold.


Are you daft? Some ships are reimbursed most are not. Maybe he was flying one that isnt. Shocked You decide to go do some pvp on your own? No reimbursement. You decide to form a big gang? No reimbursement. Get ganked doing any form of pve? No reimbursement. If you fly a specific ship for a very specific flight. You get some of your loss reduced. You still lose isk. Woah man these freakin moons make 0.0 and isk fountain for the average man.


Are you stupid? If SOME ships are reimbursed then he IS reimbursed. So his first line is a blatant lie. I wrote about reimbursement at all not full or whatever. Which he confirmed - in some cases he gets ship back = reimbursement program exists.


No you said "I dont need to do anything, the afk-ISK-from-thin-air will fund me everything: from SOV, to POS to stations to ships." And thats far far from some isk for a few specific shiptypes on a few specific ops.

Baitin
Posted - 2009.11.10 20:40:00 - [2970]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Pointfive
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: gambrinous

Hate to burst your bubble, but I'm in one of those alliances, my ships aren't reimbursed

Ships are only reimbursed on approved ops (generally just an official FC) but even then, not all ships. Caps? NO, HACS? NO Recons? NO

So best case scenario is full reimbursement if I only ever PVP when there's an official fleet formed, and only if I fly a sub cap that is on a list. Yay.



You know whats the funniest part about this thread? People contradict themselves all the time. But when they contradict themselves in one post - this is just comedy gold.


Are you daft? Some ships are reimbursed most are not. Maybe he was flying one that isnt. Shocked You decide to go do some pvp on your own? No reimbursement. You decide to form a big gang? No reimbursement. Get ganked doing any form of pve? No reimbursement. If you fly a specific ship for a very specific flight. You get some of your loss reduced. You still lose isk. Woah man these freakin moons make 0.0 and isk fountain for the average man.


Are you stupid? If SOME ships are reimbursed then he IS reimbursed. So his first line is a blatant lie. I wrote about reimbursement at all not full or whatever. Which he confirmed - in some cases he gets ship back = reimbursement program exists.


Mate learn basic logic.

Some types of ships are reimbursed under very specific set of circumstances, IE.

If the Fleet is "official".
If the ship lost is of a limited and specific type.
If you actually loose a ship.
If you ask for a reimbursement.

So if the Op never fly in "official" fleets. (timezones can be a ***** in some alliances)
OR always flies a non-aproved ship (FUN!)
OR never looses a ship during any of the official fleets (very possible if you're a good cov op pilot)
OR never ask for reimburment. (some of us likes to pay our own way)

He/she have never been reimbursed. QED


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