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Graalum
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.10 04:30:00 - [2761]
 

Edited by: Graalum on 10/11/2009 04:32:16
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 07/11/2009 13:51:06
Originally by: Hertford
Originally by: CCP Soundwave

Except for replacing the NPCs, this is pretty much what we're putting in, which is being conveniently ignored in favor of angry theorycrafting. We could replace the NPCs, but at the top tier the sites seeded wil make it financially viable without changing the npcs.

vOv


So basically, you did read my original posts on this exact topic from over a year ago, and completely missed the point of supporting more than three players in a given 0.0 system?

If a system has three anomalies in it at all times, that'll keep three people occupied. Not fifty. Where I come from, that's called basic arithmetic.

When you scan for an anomaly, will it explicitly tell you the difficulty rating?

When you scan for an anomaly, will it explicitly tell you if someone else is already in it?

When you scan for an anomaly, will you automatically get a result you can bookmark remotely?

And when you actually run the anomaly, would the lack of normal valuable belt rats result in you having been better off in Motsu?


When we have 10 anomalies, that will be enough for 10 people. I wrote this earlier in the thread too.

When you scan for an anomaly, that anomaly will be based on your upgrade tier, making a specific number superflous (since the tier collectively replaces that).

You will not be told if anyone is in it, that is not something I would prefer to see implemented.

When you run the highest tiers of anomalies, you will financially be on par with Motsu.


Further down that page his next post refers to his first post. Since you are having difficulty finding it...

Quote:
Hi Cool

About the anomalies:

Anomalies are a good way of injecting single player content into a certain system. The way it's currently set up is that the site instantly re-spawns when run, meaning it's not three sites per day; it's three sites constantly. Financially, having guaranteed access to NPCs should provide a much more solid stream of income than jumping from belt to belt, hoping that rats have re-spawned. We could have added more belts to systems, but why would we want you to jump around in a growing list of belts when we can just have you jump into a single anomaly and make money?

They were not put in as "OH GOD I STRUCK GOLD" sites. You don't make 0.0 financially inhabitable for thousands by adding extra officer spawns, you do it by providing a constant flow of content that makes a good amount of money, which is what the anomalies do. The distribution of sites is made so that the higher the upgrade, the higher quality anomaly. Financially, the top tier anomalies that will be spawning are much more profitable than mining and ratting currently is, and pretty much on par with level 4s. Added to that, they have a chance of escalation.


Note that he does not say, "not as good as level 4's". He says "on par with level 4's" and of course mentions that you have the possibility of an escalation on top of that.

I would suggest you actually read the information posted instead of name calling and talking down to people offering factual information.

I'll not do your searching for you again.

I will continue to point out where you (among others) are taking liberties with the facts as they have been presented.



again, where did he say upgraded rats, mr taking liberties with the facts? What is going to make the currently useless anomalies worthwhile?

Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Qlanth
Edited by: Qlanth on 10/11/2009 04:09:40
Infinitely respawning anomalies 95% of which will not even be close to the amount of ISK you will be able to make belt ratting regardless of how often you hit an empty belt, let alone a level 4 mission.

Easy fix to this is to switch out the pre-nerfed terrible rats in anomalies and replace them with belt rats. That would easily make the current Pirate Magnet worth it (at leas

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.10 04:32:00 - [2762]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1

Quit distorting the information presented to further your own ends.



Oh the irony.
None of the posts from Soundwave indicate they actually tackled the problem of useless anomalies. You're just pulling stuff out of your arse.

Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.10 04:39:00 - [2763]
 

Edited by: Qlanth on 10/11/2009 04:43:45
Edited by: Qlanth on 10/11/2009 04:41:57
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Qlanth
Edited by: Qlanth on 10/11/2009 04:09:40
Infinitely respawning anomalies 95% of which will not even be close to the amount of ISK you will be able to make belt ratting regardless of how often you hit an empty belt, let alone a level 4 mission.

Easy fix to this is to switch out the pre-nerfed terrible rats in anomalies and replace them with belt rats. That would easily make the current Pirate Magnet worth it (at least for first tear)


Case in point.

What you have stated does not jibe with the facts we have been presented, as you can clearly read above. Since the rats in these anomalies will have their quality determined by the level of your upgrades you can NOT state that they are going to be the same as current anomaly rats. You have been told that is incorrect.

Quit distorting the information presented to further your own ends.




Every single thing a CCP employee has posted has said absolutely nothing about "fixing" anomalies or making them worth running. Just that there would be a certain number ALWAYS available and that the top tier anomaly will be "almost on par" with a level 4 mission.

They are completely ambiguous about whether they are referring to the current top tier of anomalies, which are incredibly difficult to find (I would say around 5% of current anomalies are worth running over belt ratting), or if they are planning on changing anything about anomalies to make them worth as much as a level four (add new anomalies, up bounties in anomalies, or increase the rate at which to-tier anomalies spawn.

I am not misrepresenting anything in my previous post. If they do nothing to change anomalies aside from how many guaranteed ones there will be (this is the only thing they have EXPLICITLY stated or even alluded to) they will not be worth running over belt ratting. They would be worth running, however, if instead of the degraded 1/2 bounty, no loot, no salvage rats they were replaced with their regular loot. regular salvage. regular bounty. belt rat counterparts.

e: Keep in mind that I am not suggesting replacing the rats as an upgrade but as a complete overhaul to ALL anomalies regardless of sovereignty. Right now anomalies are a joke - they were released pre-nerfed and despite them being a great idea (they really are a good way to replace current statsic belts) were completely ignored after being implemented.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.11.10 04:46:00 - [2764]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 10/11/2009 04:56:01
Quote:
When you run the highest tiers of anomalies, you will financially be on par with Motsu.


and

Quote:
When you scan for an anomaly, that anomaly will be based on your upgrade tier, making a specific number superflous (since the tier collectively replaces that).


and

Quote:
The distribution of sites is made so that the higher the upgrade, the higher quality anomaly. Financially, the top tier anomalies that will be spawning are much more profitable than mining and ratting currently is, and pretty much on par with level 4s. Added to that, they have a chance of escalation.


Bolded for the most pertinent part. Now what do you suppose is different about top tier anomalies anomalies that makes them "much more profitable than ratting"? What do you think "on par with level 4's means in terms of tackling the issue of current anomalies being useless?

If you are going to try to continue persuading people that this can not possibly mean the quality of rats (not to mention volume of them available to shoot) is significantly better than current anomalies then there is no point to trying to continue any sort of rational discussion with you. You've already made up your mind and are just blowing smoke.

Edit: Qlanth, "pretty much on par with" is not the same as "almost on par with". And "On par with Motsu" is about as blunt as you can get.

Kanatta Jing
Posted - 2009.11.10 04:48:00 - [2765]
 

Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: Ranger 1

Quit distorting the information presented to further your own ends.



Oh the irony.
None of the posts from Soundwave indicate they actually tackled the problem of useless anomalies. You're just pulling stuff out of your arse.


Yes someone will have to be the hero and clear out the rally points and ports so Havens and Sanctums can spawn... I recommend making the new guy do it.

PS: this is a 4 spawn Sanctum, they scale up to 7 spawns.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Manfred Sideous
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.10 04:55:00 - [2766]
 

CCP jus tossing this out here. You know Ive noticed a pattern forming on these dev blogs. The seem to only get alot of replies when something really bad is about to happen.

Disabling Ghost Training
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=896318
207 pages where you tried to explain it as a bug. But us the customer knew it was really you wanted more money.

Starbase Exploit
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=945010
95 pages of you explaining that you were too incompetent to fix a exploit that was happening for years and had altered the eve economy to great extents.

Nano Nerf
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=831524
144 Pages where you explained that small gang wasnt important and that carebear tears are making you nerf a pvp mmo.


The great carrier nerf
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=618279
110 pages where you made motherships a POS ornament and they proceeded to sit in POS's for the next 2 years.

T20 anyone
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=526462
Here is where you had to finnally had to come clean at being inept at even making sure your employs weren't cheating.



So I think this is a pretty clear inidication that when a thread garners this much attention you are doing something terribly wrong. Now we the paying customers you know the ones that provide you with a job are saying ..... WE DONT LIKE THE PRODUCT YOUR TRYING TO SELL.


So for your own sake your families and childrens well being please do a better job. O and perhaps listen to the people that pay the bills.


Game Set Match

/Thread

Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.10 04:58:00 - [2767]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Quote:
When you run the highest tiers of anomalies, you will financially be on par with Motsu.


and

Quote:
When you scan for an anomaly, that anomaly will be based on your upgrade tier, making a specific number superflous (since the tier collectively replaces that).


and

Quote:
The distribution of sites is made so that the higher the upgrade, the higher quality anomaly. Financially, the top tier anomalies that will be spawning are much more profitable than mining and ratting currently is, and pretty much on par with level 4s. Added to that, they have a chance of escalation.


Bolded for the most pertinent part. Now what do you suppose is different about top tier anomalies anomalies that makes them "much more profitable than ratting"? What do you think "on par with level 4's means in terms of tackling the issue of current anomalies being useless?

If you are going to try to continue persuading people that this can not possibly mean the quality of rats (not to mention volume of them available to shoot) is significantly better than current anomalies then there is no point to trying to continue any sort of rational discussion with you. You've already made up your mind and are just blowing smoke.



They cannot possibly mean the quality of rats because they have specifically said right here that the higher the upgrade, the higher the TIER of anomaly will be likely to spawn. Like I said before about 5% of anamolies are currently worth running. They have said nothing about WHAT EXACTLY the new chance of these top tier anomalies will be when they spawn. They have said NOTHING about making the other 95% of anomalies worthwhile to run PERIOD. As in, while the top tier are worth running over belt ratting, the lower 19 tiers are far worse.

And you wouldn't need to make only the top tier worthwhile if only the rats in them were regular and not pre-nerfed. This would make it on par with belt ratting and sometimes even better than belt ratting, and for the top 25-30% better than a Level 4

Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.10 05:03:00 - [2768]
 

To make it clear when I say "because of the risk and increased logistics of 0.0 space I should be able to make more, not as much as a L4 in empire" I am not sayign I want to make 300% more ISK, 200% more ISK or even 100% more ISK than what L4 mission runners make. I want to make maybe 20-30% more than a mission runner in highsec makes because to defend my own space I am constantly battling and losing ships. I would very much enjoy for the end-game of Eve to be able to facilitate my ability to defend my space and not make it so that I decide "I might as well just have an alt in empire so i can more reliably make ISK"

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.11.10 05:11:00 - [2769]
 

Now I know what is throwing you, and since not all of his responses are quoted I can see where it might be easy to make this mistake.

Look at this part again.

Quote:
When you scan for an anomaly, that anomaly will be based on your upgrade tier, making a specific number superflous (since the tier collectively replaces that).


These anomalies are based on your UPGRADE tier, not on the standard anomaly tier system. I can certainly understand your error in this case, the terminology "tier" is describing two different mechanics, and people tend to automatically think "anomaly quality tier" when the word tier is used in discussing anomalies.

By the way, your arguments have been both civil and well worded. Thanks for that.

Alex Under
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.11.10 05:11:00 - [2770]
 

Quoting my friend here...

Originally by: Manfred Sideous
CCP jus tossing this out here. You know Ive noticed a pattern forming on these dev blogs. The seem to only get alot of replies when something really bad is about to happen.

Disabling Ghost Training
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=896318
207 pages where you tried to explain it as a bug. But us the customer knew it was really you wanted more money.

Starbase Exploit
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=945010
95 pages of you explaining that you were too incompetent to fix a exploit that was happening for years and had altered the eve economy to great extents.

Nano Nerf
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=831524
144 Pages where you explained that small gang wasnt important and that carebear tears are making you nerf a pvp mmo.


The great carrier nerf
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=618279
110 pages where you made motherships a POS ornament and they proceeded to sit in POS's for the next 2 years.

T20 anyone
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=526462
Here is where you had to finnally had to come clean at being inept at even making sure your employs weren't cheating.



So I think this is a pretty clear inidication that when a thread garners this much attention you are doing something terribly wrong. Now we the paying customers you know the ones that provide you with a job are saying ..... WE DONT LIKE THE PRODUCT YOUR TRYING TO SELL.


So for your own sake your families and childrens well being please do a better job. O and perhaps listen to the people that pay the bills.


Game Set Match

/Thread

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.11.10 05:19:00 - [2771]
 

Originally by: Alex Under
Quoting my friend here...

Originally by: Manfred Sideous
CCP jus tossing this out here. You know Ive noticed a pattern forming on these dev blogs. The seem to only get alot of replies when something really bad is about to happen.

Disabling Ghost Training
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=896318
207 pages where you tried to explain it as a bug. But us the customer knew it was really you wanted more money.

Starbase Exploit
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=945010
95 pages of you explaining that you were too incompetent to fix a exploit that was happening for years and had altered the eve economy to great extents.

Nano Nerf
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=831524
144 Pages where you explained that small gang wasnt important and that carebear tears are making you nerf a pvp mmo.


The great carrier nerf
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=618279
110 pages where you made motherships a POS ornament and they proceeded to sit in POS's for the next 2 years.

T20 anyone
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=526462
Here is where you had to finnally had to come clean at being inept at even making sure your employs weren't cheating.



So I think this is a pretty clear inidication that when a thread garners this much attention you are doing something terribly wrong. Now we the paying customers you know the ones that provide you with a job are saying ..... WE DONT LIKE THE PRODUCT YOUR TRYING TO SELL.


So for your own sake your families and childrens well being please do a better job. O and perhaps listen to the people that pay the bills.


Game Set Match

/Thread



Might be a better idea to discuss the actual issues in the thread rather than attempt mudslinging. If you want to discuss ANY of those issues (and I'm sure there will be a great many people that would be happy to dispute your assertions) then start your own thread.

And FYI, being a paying customer does not make you competent in game design.


NickSuccorso
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.11.10 05:21:00 - [2772]
 

Quote:
So for your own sake your families and childrens well being please do a better job. O and perhaps listen to the people that pay the bills.


I'm sure CCP is very happy that you're taking an interest in their corporate budget, but this ranks up there with "I'm going to cancel all 14 of my accounts if this isn't fixed RIGHT NOW" in the pantheon of really bad arguing. Other than that, your post actually makes me pretty disappointed in everyone's effort in this thread. This is at least as big as the other issues there, barring T20 and moongate, yet isn't garnering near the amount of outraged keyboard mashing.


Hendrik Stahl
GoonFleet
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2009.11.10 05:32:00 - [2773]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1


And FYI, being a paying customer does not make you competent in game design.




Apparently neither does being a game designer

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.11.10 05:32:00 - [2774]
 

Edited by: Gnulpie on 10/11/2009 05:37:09
Why the need to install the upgrades anyway?

Why do we need to 'unlock' and 'install' those upgrades? That is totally artificial and not fitting into Eve!

Instead the upgrade of space should come automatically.

For example if you rat enough the space should upgrade itself with better opportunities! Constantly and with finer grains. Not every level 2 more guaranteed anomalies, but every 1% of military index improvement, a 2% more chance to find one more anomaly. Just for example.

Get rid of these totally idiotic payment system for upgrades. If the players improve the space by their presence and by their doings, then the space should get improved automatically!!

I can understand the installation for cynofield jammers ... though that is bad also. Just make it chancewise and also automatically. You should be able to light up a cyno always. But when the space is strategically powerful enough, then the jumprange to that cyno should become shorter and shorter. When the space is not improved by player doings, the jumprange should be just like to a normal cyno. And then the range reduces to 99% etc. until it hits 0% and the system is effectivly jammed.

THAT would be better. And more logical. And it wouldn't need that stupid and completely artificial payment system. Same with all the other upgrades.

And best, both things are easy to implement!

Now, if you still want some isk sink, then go and consider those fuel pellets I mentioned earlier for the infrastructure hub. Those pellets should be manufactured using npc goods (for the isk sink), gas from sleeper space (for the better interaction between parts of eve) and they should be lightweigt (to reduce logistics).

Think about it.

All player actions should have some impact. Player actions should NOT go completely to waste unless they first fit into a predetermined pattern.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.11.10 05:37:00 - [2775]
 

Originally by: Hendrik Stahl
Originally by: Ranger 1


And FYI, being a paying customer does not make you competent in game design.




Apparently neither does being a game designer


Heh, I saw that one coming. Very Happy

mine mi
Posted - 2009.11.10 05:39:00 - [2776]
 

I think the mayor problem is why this magical thing happens.
We need to answer some questions, before we can understand these changes
If I pay for the sovereignty, for example administrate stargates on the solar system, what happens in the unclaimed sectors, I canít jump? , and more important, if I control the star gate why hostiles can use it?
Some answer could be.
You need to pay a toll to use it, X isk, and if you are at war with this alliance sector you must to pay double, a type of bribe.
Ok this is just an example; with this modification you can loose an entire fleet, (in isk) without a single shot in a rooming, but is an answer of a question we can resonate and understand.
Other questions could be, if a have more pirate activities in my sector, why?
Because my economic prosper and if is the case, where came from?
Again possible answer, from my neighborhood solar system

And you guys make questions, and CCP reasonable answer, no magical mechanic game play.


Arronicus
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2009.11.10 06:05:00 - [2777]
 

Got very excited about described changes at fanfest, and all the other dev blogs, passed on that excitement to alot of other plans, did theory crafting, helped with testing, etc, and now this hits.

VERY VERY DISSAPOINTING. The fees? No escalation, so no true deterrent to holding alot of property as long as some people are willing to maintain a jumpbridge out to that part via some fees every 2 weeks. As for making systems capable of making it profitable for 50 people to live in them at once? What a joke. An extra plex or 2 a day? 1-2 people are gonna log on after downtime, run them, and then go back to the belts. Great, now systems can hold an extra.... 2-4 people with GOOD levels of upgrading?

Im sorry, but your report card for upgrades available garners a lowercase F. (The capital F is reserved for a better fail. this one didnt put in enough effort)

Ava Santiago
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.11.10 06:05:00 - [2778]
 

Originally by: Destrim
Edited by: Destrim on 08/11/2009 01:53:27
Re-posting, because no one said anything :(

Well, personally, I think the heavy tax and necessity to use the systems does an excellent job at condensing empires, and opening 0.0 up to much more people. THAT I have no problem with... even the heavy tax.

What I DO have a problem with is this: the industrial/military upgrades are weaksauce. I say this because the upgrades, which are supposed to apply to an alliance's/corp's infrastructure, are not, in fact, doing much to help them achieve such ends.

In other words, you have succeeded in using punishment ("pain aversion") to reign-in the ballooning miss-usage of 0.0 space (which works perfectly), but you haven't created any rewards as incentive for holding only a few systems. Penalizing works, but it only goes so far: you have to make it much more worth while to dig-in and hold the few systems they put so much time into improving. So, the improvements must be worthwhile.

For me, I consider it the equivalent of creating an actual ****ing HOME in EVE. Not just some space you hold, so you can wave your e-peen, but somewhere that actually means something to you.

This is what I propose:

Industry upgrades: Something which...

  • Decreases build costs by x% per sov level

  • Decreases build times by x% per sov level

  • Decreases reaction times by x% per sov level

  • Increases moon stuff mined per unit of time by x% per sov level

  • Increases refine rate (going beyond 100%, so you actually get MORE from refining) by x% per sov level

  • Retain the "hidden belts per sov level" idea

  • Increase mining amount/speed by x% per sov level



<snip>


I wanted to go back to 0.0 and build things for alliance in dominion. As it stands, Dominion does not help with that and the Dominion industry upgrades do not offset the loss of security resulting from "distance to the border decreased". More ores and refined modules... does not offset increased risk to researched blueprints.

The proposal above is an effective means of making manufacturing and researching in 0.0 more attractive - reducing ship build times by 10% in a Sov 5 industry system.. would force alliances to create manufacturing hubs - and thereby generate strategically important sites/systems.

Profit + target. This is the kind of synergy that Eve needs.. the stuff on offer deserves the "weaksauce" label.

Dante Edmundo
Posted - 2009.11.10 06:23:00 - [2779]
 

Edited by: Dante Edmundo on 10/11/2009 06:30:51

Gnulpie writes: "POSTPONE THE SOV CHANGES!

The expansion without the sov changes will be great already: new planetary graphics, new browser, new fleet organisation, new corp management tools, new eden (aka cosmos) web-interface, changes to high end moons, supercap changes etc."


I agree Gnulpie. I suggest CCP release everything except the SOV changes for the time being. There is a lot of good content that has received overall positive feedback (except perhaps the Titan nerf). There are just too many unknowns right now and too many good points brought up in this EPIC threadnaught - for CCP just to mindlessly go for the Dec 2nd deadline. Exodus Part Duex anyone?

Why rush it? The game isn't going to disappear - and I think from reading this thread, most alliances will be content with the status quo until the SOV changes can be polished more.

DELAY SOV CCP GODS - BUT RELEASE THE REST OF DOMINION. IT IS SUFFICIENT.

And then I suggest work with alliance player leadership who seem passionate about making null-sec a better place - and I would say almost ALL OF THEM AGREED WITH YOUR GOALS CCP but few of them have agreed with your current methods.

I don't think you or the players will lose much by just holding back on the SOV changes.



Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.10 06:57:00 - [2780]
 

What the eve community needs is an elected body by the players that voices concerns to CCP. People that 'represent' the eve community. People that tell CCP what we want to see and not be there for selfish reasons and such. People that truly want to represent the EVE community and not want just free stuff like trips to events and things.

What do you guys think?

Honest Smedley
Posted - 2009.11.10 07:08:00 - [2781]
 

Originally by: Manfred Sideous
CCP jus tossing this out here. You know Ive noticed a pattern forming on these dev blogs. The seem to only get alot of replies when something really bad is about to happen.

Arkanon's News Item on the recent allegations of developer misconduct (2007.05.25)
Top Forum Warriors In Thread
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146 Elmo Noguchi ( Imperial Academy )
90 Prall Grosserbauch ( GoonFleet ) [ GoonSwarm ]
70 Shadow Elk
60 Alice Cholmondeley ( I Am Legend )
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Supercaps, Caps, Drones and Fighters, a New Zulupark Blog (2007.10.21)
Top Forum Warriors In Thread
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71 Icome4u ( The Mining Consortium )
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113 Haakelen ( United Forces )
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Disabling ghost training - the blog edition (2008.10.13)
Top Forum Warriors In Thread
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129 Squirrrel ( Squirrrel Industries )
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Starbase exploit addressed (2008.12.10)
Top Forum Warriors In Thread
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124 Etho Demerzel ( Holy Clan of the Cone )
52 URUS FORGE ( THE TRUST INCORPORATED )
36 Gamer4liff ( Metalworks ) [ Majesta Empire ]
33 Cadela Fria ( Dark-Rising ) [ IT Alliance ]
33 Gnulpie ( Miner Tech )

Upgrading and Upkeep of Sovereign Solar Systems in Dominion (2009.11.06)
Top Forum Warriors In Thread
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
82 Korodan ( GoonFleet ) [ GoonSwarm ]
56 Vivian Azure
56 Kepakh
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51 Qlanth ( Merch Industrial ) [ GoonSwarm ]

Honest Smedley
Posted - 2009.11.10 07:13:00 - [2782]
 

The alliance stuff is a bit off due to inactive accounts not reflecting corp/alliance changes since going inactive...

Arkanon's News Item on the recent allegations of developer misconduct (2007.05.25)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3012 Unallied or Unknown
780 GoonSwarm
124 IT Alliance
97 Band of Brothers
84 Pandemic Legion

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1920 Unallied or Unknown
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2654 Unallied or Unknown
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87 Wildly Inappropriate.
82 Triumvirate.

Disabling ghost training - the blog edition (2008.10.13)
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Upgrading and Upkeep of Sovereign Solar Systems in Dominion (2009.11.06)
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Black Omne
Caldari
Freedom-Technologies
Sev3rance
Posted - 2009.11.10 07:16:00 - [2783]
 

Originally by: Dante Edmundo
Edited by: Dante Edmundo on 10/11/2009 06:30:51

Gnulpie writes: "POSTPONE THE SOV CHANGES!

The expansion without the sov changes will be great already: new planetary graphics, new browser, new fleet organisation, new corp management tools, new eden (aka cosmos) web-interface, changes to high end moons, supercap changes etc."


I agree Gnulpie. I suggest CCP release everything except the SOV changes for the time being. There is a lot of good content that has received overall positive feedback (except perhaps the Titan nerf). There are just too many unknowns right now and too many good points brought up in this EPIC threadnaught - for CCP just to mindlessly go for the Dec 2nd deadline. Exodus Part Duex anyone?

Why rush it? The game isn't going to disappear - and I think from reading this thread, most alliances will be content with the status quo until the SOV changes can be polished more.

DELAY SOV CCP GODS - BUT RELEASE THE REST OF DOMINION. IT IS SUFFICIENT.

And then I suggest work with alliance player leadership who seem passionate about making null-sec a better place - and I would say almost ALL OF THEM AGREED WITH YOUR GOALS CCP but few of them have agreed with your current methods.

I don't think you or the players will lose much by just holding back on the SOV changes.





/signed
The SOV changes need a lot more work before they are put into place.


Tesal
Posted - 2009.11.10 07:24:00 - [2784]
 

Originally by: NickSuccorso

I'm sure CCP is very happy that you're taking an interest in their corporate budget, but this ranks up there with "I'm going to cancel all 14 of my accounts if this isn't fixed RIGHT NOW" in the pantheon of really bad arguing. Other than that, your post actually makes me pretty disappointed in everyone's effort in this thread. This is at least as big as the other issues there, barring T20 and moongate, yet isn't garnering near the amount of outraged keyboard mashing.




Plenty of outrage, just not much rational discussion.

I partly agree with Gnulpie, the game should not require grinding just to live in a place. That very much goes against the tradition in EvE. What is next, grinding for skills? What happens if you have to fight a large war and don't have time to rat for a month? They should drop that part of this. The time based part will still work for purchasing upgrades.

I also agree with Verone, in his post.
Originally by: Verone


Mikal, I'm happy to disappoint, and I'll give a response along with a response to the quotes above.

CCP is performing a MASSIVE change to game mechanics. The logic, and principle behind the change is outstanding, and all the whining about having to fuel towers and babysit 1000 control towers to keep your space, or destroy 1000 hardened control towers to take someone's space is going to be gone.

This change to mechanics isn't going to happen overnight with the launch of Dominion. It's a massive overhaul of how Eve operates, and it instantaneously affects TENS OF THOUSANDS of players the second Dominion goes live. It's not a case of changing the slot layout of a ship, or tweaking its stats. It's potentially game breaking on the most fundamental of levels.

The fact of the matter is, giving too much reward too soon would give the game's economy a massive heart attack. Of course CCP are going to implement it with pre-nerfed rewards. Its going to be monitored, tweaked, worked on, fiddled with and monitored some more before they're happy with it. Something this big as a change in game isn't going to be complete overnight, its part of the core of the game.

Its going to take time to balance it and watch to see how Eve reacts to it. This kind of thing is so large that its impossible to test on a development server. It has to be done in live play, because its not possible to simulate the effects of play on the scale of TQ on any of the test servers. The only thing that they can do is make sure the mechanics work fully.

0.0 alliances have whined for years about having the Sovereignty system overhauled. CCP has the answer to it and the logic and ideas behind it are sound and well thought out. Its just going to take time to implement and the best way to do it is by pre-nerfing the rewards until the dust settles around the launch of Dominion and CCP can see how alliances react to the new mechanics.

I wouldn't be surprised if over time the rewards get better, but for now all they're doing is playing it safe to make sure that they don't totally butt**** the game's economy by pouring trillions of ISK into the market because they made a bad call on the rewards for sov...


Sov in 0.0 is badly broken. It has to be fixed. Waiting is not an option I am afraid. The people claiming they will quit eve over this are outnumbered by the people actually quitting eve under the current system. The supernaps, the moon gold, the cap ships, pos wars and so on are strangling the game. This is a huge risk by CCP. But to stay where we are now will mean we die. If we move forward there is a chance.

I think I can shorten this and add an appropriate amount of invective so that it translates into troll, a language Goons can understand.

You must die so that EvE can live. Now die!

Hertford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.10 07:57:00 - [2785]
 

What incentives are CCP adding in the proposed changes for empire dwellers to consider or commit to moving from empire and living in 0.0?

Kanatta Jing
Posted - 2009.11.10 08:11:00 - [2786]
 

Originally by: Hertford
What incentives are CCP adding in the proposed changes for empire dwellers to consider or commit to moving from empire and living in 0.0?


Same as before. Battleship rats you don't need massive faction standing to kill and Exotic Ores in abundance.

It's just that now more Alliances may need the Taxes/Rents and may have to more actively court either new kinds of members or maybe another renter alliance.

At least that how I think It's going...

I could imagine a maybe one or two new alliances yoinking suddenly SOV less constellations of minuscule value somewhere maybe.

But hey, it would be a chance for new blood if they was feisty enough.

Chantacas
Posted - 2009.11.10 08:21:00 - [2787]
 

Simply as a paying customer, CCP need to listen up.

Risk must be compatible with reward. This simply isnt the case with the new proposals.

How about allowing afk cloakers in motsu that can shoot anyone without concorde interfering?

I predict recons will be the most used 0.0 ships in dominion. Nice one ccp.

I'll be flying one; in a fully upgraded system near you.

gambrinous
Posted - 2009.11.10 08:23:00 - [2788]
 

Originally by: Dante Edmundo
Edited by: Dante Edmundo on 10/11/2009 06:30:51

Gnulpie writes: "POSTPONE THE SOV CHANGES!

The expansion without the sov changes will be great already: new planetary graphics, new browser, new fleet organisation, new corp management tools, new eden (aka cosmos) web-interface, changes to high end moons, supercap changes etc."



thumbs up, you forgot faction ship changes/additions

ccp, give yourselves a pat on the back for that much and go back to the drawing board (read that as fix the code that is broken to allow yourselves to do what you already know is right) re sov and 0.0 upgrades.

Kanatta Jing
Posted - 2009.11.10 08:31:00 - [2789]
 

Originally by: Chantacas
Simply as a paying customer, CCP need to listen up.

Risk must be compatible with reward. This simply isnt the case with the new proposals.

How about allowing afk cloakers in motsu that can shoot anyone without concorde interfering?

I predict recons will be the most used 0.0 ships in dominion. Nice one ccp.

I'll be flying one; in a fully upgraded system near you.


I await you and your 7 Redeemers.

NickSuccorso
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.11.10 08:45:00 - [2790]
 

Quote:
Sov in 0.0 is badly broken. It has to be fixed. Waiting is not an option I am afraid. The people claiming they will quit eve over this are outnumbered by the people actually quitting eve under the current system. The supernaps, the moon gold, the cap ships, pos wars and so on are strangling the game. This is a huge risk by CCP. But to stay where we are now will mean we die. If we move forward there is a chance.

I think I can shorten this and add an appropriate amount of invective so that it translates into troll, a language Goons can understand.

You must die so that EvE can live. Now die!


People keep saying this as if current 0.0 alliance members in this thread aren't in agreement that the current sovereignty system and moon gold is out of whack. Everybody knows that **** needs to change, and everybody has known that it's coming. We all welcome the change, and the original vision of 0.0 filling up with many alliances reaching for the brass ring while territories and pos responsibilities shrink makes us smile. We don't like how they plan to go about it right now, because it's going to strangle these small alliances, and make very little change to the territorial situation in 0.0.


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