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Kayl Breinhar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:01:00 - [2641]
 

Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 09/11/2009 22:01:08
Originally by: Qlanth
So even though we are arguing the exact same point goons are crying and you are...

He's not one of "us" so that means he's more relevant, duhhhhhh.

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:02:00 - [2642]
 

Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
* 75 % of crying post are off goons, sudden defenders of small alliances .


ITT: Goons are the most vocal alliance around. Shocking, I know.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:03:00 - [2643]
 

Edited by: Batolemaeus on 09/11/2009 22:05:45
Originally by: Otin Bison

So, you get your PvP on for free? Is what you're saying?
So, why all the consternation by folk about their ISK making in 0.0 ?


You seem to be confused.
I'm talking about now. As in, now, before dominion, i get free ships for strategically relevant operations funded by the moon stuff i'm (partly) protecting. The isk from moon goo doesn't just sink somewhere, it gets invested. The 100% refinery or the lvl3 industry upgraded station or the jump bridges that take me to empire, all funded by moons. The moon isk don't just vanish like you said, i'm directly profiting from them.

However, my alliance surely won't come up for the ships i lose outside of strategically relevant ops. Those are the majority of ops, however. I will still have to make money to support that. And now CCP steps in and declares that i should be using worthless anomalies that are sub par to mission running in empire as a promised upgrade to the space i protect? Why the hell should i even do that?

Now, pay attention to this very closely:
If i want to make money, and believe me, sometimes i just need some isk, i get to choose between different activities. I'll choose the one that is most profitable while being as easy as possible to do while half asleep. This is mission running in empire.

So no, i'm not complaining that isk making in 0.0 is worse than in empire, both before and after dominion. I get my isk anyways.

I'm complaining that the expansion that was supposed to bring tons of players to 0.0 and make it possible to live there doesn't deliver. Why bother with anomalies as the only steady stream of income (all assuming we'd react like ccp wants us to and concentrate in a few systems only) when i can make more money elsewhere? If CCP wants us to live in the place we hold for nostalgic reasons, then they failed at changing it so we'd reconsider our behaviour.

Itzena
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:06:00 - [2644]
 

It's a shame this thread will end up locked, because bumping it around the middle of next summer would no doubt be mildly amusing.

Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:10:00 - [2645]
 

One thing that has definitely become glaringly clear is that CCP is completely out of touch with 0.0 moneymaking or else they are just ignoring it completely to push an agenda regarding static belts.

I honestly would love to run Cosmic Anomalies instead of doing belt ratting because they are far more interesting. But in typical CCP fashion they released them pre-nerfed and they are basically worthless when compared to normal belt ratting.

The sad part is this could be easily fixed but they seem to have absolutely no motivation to do so. (Hint CCP: these Sov changes were and are perfect motivation)

Tamahra
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:10:00 - [2646]
 

Originally by: Batolemaeus

So no, i'm not complaining that isk making in 0.0 is worse than in empire, both before and after dominion. I get my isk anyways.

I'm complaining that the expansion that was supposed to bring tons of players to 0.0 and make it possible to live there doesn't deliver. Why bother with anomalies as the only steady stream of income (all assuming we'd react like ccp wants us to and concentrate in a few systems only) when i can make more money elsewhere? If CCP wants us to live in the place we hold for nostalgic reasons, then they failed at changing it so we'd reconsider our behaviour.



this

Vivian Azure
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:13:00 - [2647]
 

Originally by: Kayl Breinhar
A lot of you seem to think that we're "whining" because we don't want to lose our big D&Q-shaped "blob" on the map.

This isn't the case. We've been chatting for months on how we'd probably be forced to "consolidate" our space and how to do so while retaining the most defensibility. Little did we know that with these changes the space wouldn't be worth *keeping* at all save for CSAAs.

This is not a "Goon" thing. As usual we're just the most vocal. Rooting for this because it hurts us hurts everyone who has space who doesn't like us. There would be nothing to do but defend and carebear. Going to war, you know, those things that give EVE such good press, would be entirely suicidal in this new system, and either wouldn't happen, or would simply cease after a few battles. Exciting, huh?

But you don't care. This is CAOD. Here any nameless/corpless ******* can post something as if he knows what the hell he's talking about (or troll, snipe, or egg on) and be heard as if he *did* know what he was talking about. Maybe just to possibly see himself quoted or to get some sense of "power" over someone he feels needs to be taken down a peg.

Under this patch, with these "upgrades," 0.0 space will not be worth holding. NPC 0.0 will become the de facto new "must have." The "nerf" to moon mining will mean less T2 submaterials on the market which in turn will mean drastically higher prices for everything T2. Less ABC ores on the market will hurt everything else.

So yeah, have your fun claiming "you've got ten alts all of which are in 0.0, billionaires, and are 'important men in the internet spaceship community.'" You'll suffer as much as us if this goes through.


My corp/alliance will have absolutely no problems holding space with the upcoming changes. Sure, we don't hold as much space as Goons, but we don't need this much anyways for our 1000 members.
The moon-mining will not change anything in the T2-production for us aswell, it just get's more wide-spread across the moon-materials. Some moons loose their value, some others do increase. The prices will stay pretty much as they are.

Will we drop the Sov on some of the currently claimed systems? Sure we will do drop sov here and there, where we don't use the systems other then for some belt-hunting, but we're considering to place a flag there, if CCP changes the costs from 20 million to 1 million per day. Sov without even placing a tower, for a laughable 30 million ISK a month... Why not?

Yes, I don't post with my main and an alliance or corp-ticker, as we all know what happens if you do so. It doesn't have to do anything with credibility and i really don't care about it tbh, but in my example, I'm not allowed to raise my oppinion in public forums with my main-character for the reason, that my own oppinion will be seen as the oppinion of my whole corp/alliance, which it isn't.

And yes, I'm not the casual-player like alot of you're pretending to be, but I've spoken with alot of corp/alliance-members about this, and noone of them would've a problem with contributing some 5-10 million ISK a day to the corp to keep up with the bills.
And why should they complain? All fleet-ships are 100% funded by the corp, and that even includes the needed Tech 2-ships like Interceptors, Dictors, HICs and Logistics. HACs are given out for some special OPs aswell.

I don't know what alot of corps/alliances are doing differently, that this doesn't work out for them, but I guess it's greed and egoism.

So yeah... we're happily looking forward to the expansion, as nothing really changes for us, but we'll have the option to invest some money to provide some more PvE-content for our members in 0.0.

Sally Bestonge
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:14:00 - [2648]
 

for those of you who believe 0.0 PVPers get free ships while in large alliances you are terribly delusional. T1 ships see some reimbursement, as do capitals, but very few T2 ships see much reimbursement, if any.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:14:00 - [2649]
 

For the few high sec miners here claiming 0.0 is safe and they would love to mine there: Why arent you mining in providence right now? We got plenty of crappy roids you may mine.

Issler Dainze
Minmatar
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:15:00 - [2650]
 

I have to say CCP failing to deliver what was promised is a disappointment. We were told to expect a system with expenses for holding space that increase on a curve and that the cost for only have a small holding would be set to encourage smaller alliances to move to 0.0.

What we get instead will make it even less likely that a small alliance could make their home in 0.0. We were planning on finding a system or two out in the wild to make our own. I can't seen any way to make the ISKs work for that now.

I now have gone from being REALLY excited about this expansion to being reminded CCP really just don't like industrialist and being a sad panda as my hope for a 0.0 home for BEEP clearly isn't going to happen any time soon.

Issler

Pointfive
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:18:00 - [2651]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar
A lot of you seem to think that we're "whining" because we don't want to lose our big D&Q-shaped "blob" on the map.

This isn't the case. We've been chatting for months on how we'd probably be forced to "consolidate" our space and how to do so while retaining the most defensibility. Little did we know that with these changes the space wouldn't be worth *keeping* at all save for CSAAs.

This is not a "Goon" thing. As usual we're just the most vocal. Rooting for this because it hurts us hurts everyone who has space who doesn't like us. There would be nothing to do but defend and carebear. Going to war, you know, those things that give EVE such good press, would be entirely suicidal in this new system, and either wouldn't happen, or would simply cease after a few battles. Exciting, huh?

But you don't care. This is CAOD. Here any nameless/corpless ******* can post something as if he knows what the hell he's talking about (or troll, snipe, or egg on) and be heard as if he *did* know what he was talking about. Maybe just to possibly see himself quoted or to get some sense of "power" over someone he feels needs to be taken down a peg.

Under this patch, with these "upgrades," 0.0 space will not be worth holding. NPC 0.0 will become the de facto new "must have." The "nerf" to moon mining will mean less T2 submaterials on the market which in turn will mean drastically higher prices for everything T2. Less ABC ores on the market will hurt everything else.

So yeah, have your fun claiming "you've got ten alts all of which are in 0.0, billionaires, and are 'important men in the internet spaceship community.'" You'll suffer as much as us if this goes through.


My corp/alliance will have absolutely no problems holding space with the upcoming changes. Sure, we don't hold as much space as Goons, but we don't need this much anyways for our 1000 members.
The moon-mining will not change anything in the T2-production for us aswell, it just get's more wide-spread across the moon-materials. Some moons loose their value, some others do increase. The prices will stay pretty much as they are.

Will we drop the Sov on some of the currently claimed systems? Sure we will do drop sov here and there, where we don't use the systems other then for some belt-hunting, but we're considering to place a flag there, if CCP changes the costs from 20 million to 1 million per day. Sov without even placing a tower, for a laughable 30 million ISK a month... Why not?

Yes, I don't post with my main and an alliance or corp-ticker, as we all know what happens if you do so. It doesn't have to do anything with credibility and i really don't care about it tbh, but in my example, I'm not allowed to raise my oppinion in public forums with my main-character for the reason, that my own oppinion will be seen as the oppinion of my whole corp/alliance, which it isn't.

And yes, I'm not the casual-player like alot of you're pretending to be, but I've spoken with alot of corp/alliance-members about this, and noone of them would've a problem with contributing some 5-10 million ISK a day to the corp to keep up with the bills.
And why should they complain? All fleet-ships are 100% funded by the corp, and that even includes the needed Tech 2-ships like Interceptors, Dictors, HICs and Logistics. HACs are given out for some special OPs aswell.

I don't know what alot of corps/alliances are doing differently, that this doesn't work out for them, but I guess it's greed and egoism.

So yeah... we're happily looking forward to the expansion, as nothing really changes for us, but we'll have the option to invest some money to provide some more PvE-content for our members in 0.0.


Lets make sure to point out you admit to having 2 accounts dedicated solely to making money in empire, and play over 6 hours a day. The fact that those 2 accounts arent in nullsec making cash, is really all that needs being said.

Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:19:00 - [2652]
 

Edited by: Trent Nichols on 09/11/2009 22:20:59
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar

The small alliance line is laughable. The biggest enemy to us is peace. This expansion will force that on everyone. Peace in EVE is boring as hell.


This right here is the other part of what makes Dominion such a disaster.

There will be very few wars between the current sov holding alliances after dominion. If grabbing space only gets you more bills why do it? This wouldn't be so bad if that PVP void was going to be filled by hoards of empire alliances charging into now vacant 0.0 but that isn't going to happen.

The insane fees and the fact that they are flat rate insures there will still be no room for new alliances in 0.0 and they wouldn't be able to afford it even if there was.

Thats twice Ive quoted goons in this thread... What have you done CCP?

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:19:00 - [2653]
 

Originally by: Pointfive
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Tesal


YES OR NO: Can I have your stuff.




Seriosly.

CCP:

* 75 % of crying post are off goons, sudden defenders of small alliances .
* Changes and upkeep cost sound pretty good but there IS still problem with lvl4.
* Consider icreasing bounties of rats so running anomalies will be some more profitable of lvl4 .
* It could good to add some more usefull upgrades some of which were mentioned in this thread.
* Chaniging moon stuff in BPO requirments for t2 stuff was the worst way to deal with moon minerals changes , i am dissapointed in this regard. We still dont know how it will impact EVE economy



The majority of the wgoons re not hining about moon or sov prices, they are complaining about the same ****. The null sec income being crap and level 4s being too good.


I have heards goons crying about :

* Star wars game and expansion that killed it NGE ? And saying it is coming to eve
* That 0.0 is now worthless and they are going to farm lvl4 , then saying they stay for other reasons when i am talking about moving to delve.
* insulting other poeple beggining on that some have no idea of 0.0 and they(goons) knows everything ending on nerds that lives in mothers basement.
* complaints that now they cant pvp in carriers and titans for free.
* complaining that now they cant cyno jam and jump bridge entire regions.
* crying about small alliances that they suddenly feel so much sympathy for that they cant afford to hold sov.

and many more that i missed ...

And no, null sec is no crap after expansion.

Moons + rats + hi lvl plexes + hi lvl wormholes gives very decent income. You just have to work a litte more ( no more afk empires ) and cant roll caps like they were rifters.

The anomalies are there to give you opportunity to keep isks flowing 23/7. The only thing i dont like they are at the level with lvl4.They should give more.

Also mining is broken beacuse of : lvl4 loot and drones .But thats the diffrent story.

Also CCP what about drones regions. How do you compensate no bounties thing ?





Xunasy
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:21:00 - [2654]
 

Ahaha what a horrible update, I feel sorry for whoever wasted their time on this pile of ****.

Uberfrau
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:22:00 - [2655]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure
And yes, I'm not the casual-player like alot of you're pretending to be, but I've spoken with alot of corp/alliance-members about this, and noone of them would've a problem with contributing some 5-10 million ISK a day to the corp to keep up with the bills.


So, wait, you don't currently have a tax set on your corp?

Vivian Azure
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:28:00 - [2656]
 

Edited by: Vivian Azure on 09/11/2009 22:29:22
Edited by: Vivian Azure on 09/11/2009 22:28:58
Originally by: Pointfive


Lets make sure to point out you admit to having 2 accounts dedicated solely to making money in empire, and play over 6 hours a day. The fact that those 2 accounts arent in nullsec making cash, is really all that needs being said.


How many players in your alliance have multiple accounts and invest alot of time to make the game more fun for those, who can't do so?

75% of our corp are playing with a single account and they can live very well with it. Even with the upcoming changes.

Originally by: Uberfrau
Originally by: Vivian Azure
And yes, I'm not the casual-player like alot of you're pretending to be, but I've spoken with alot of corp/alliance-members about this, and noone of them would've a problem with contributing some 5-10 million ISK a day to the corp to keep up with the bills.


So, wait, you don't currently have a tax set on your corp?


Our corp-tax is 10%.

Tesal
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:29:00 - [2657]
 

Originally by: Kayl Breinhar
A lot of you seem to think that we're "whining" because we don't want to lose our big D&Q-shaped "blob" on the map.

This isn't the case. We've been chatting for months on how we'd probably be forced to "consolidate" our space and how to do so while retaining the most defensibility. Little did we know that with these changes the space wouldn't be worth *keeping* at all save for CSAAs.

This is not a "Goon" thing. As usual we're just the most vocal. Rooting for this because it hurts us hurts everyone who has space who doesn't like us. There would be nothing to do but defend and carebear. Going to war, you know, those things that give EVE such good press, would be entirely suicidal in this new system, and either wouldn't happen, or would simply cease after a few battles. Exciting, huh?

But you don't care. This is CAOD. Here any nameless/corpless ******* can post something as if he knows what the hell he's talking about (or troll, snipe, or egg on) and be heard as if he *did* know what he was talking about. Maybe just to possibly see himself quoted or to get some sense of "power" over someone he feels needs to be taken down a peg.

Under this patch, with these "upgrades," 0.0 space will not be worth holding. NPC 0.0 will become the de facto new "must have." The "nerf" to moon mining will mean less T2 submaterials on the market which in turn will mean drastically higher prices for everything T2. Less ABC ores on the market will hurt everything else.

So yeah, have your fun claiming "you've got ten alts all of which are in 0.0, billionaires, and are 'important men in the internet spaceship community.'" You'll suffer as much as us if this goes through.


This isn't CAOD. You answer to everyone in this forum, including "nameless" corps.

Yes, you suffering would make me happy. Yes, under this patch space isn't worth holding. THAT IS THE POINT OF THE PATCH. It is to force you to consolidate. All the same rats that exist now, will be there after the patch, except there will be more rats in upgraded space. The big change/loss is in moon gold. This is INTENDED to deprive you of income. The idea of Sov is being changed to its core, it is a flag, its no longer the literal indication of control it used to be. For real military control you will have to fight outside your Sov areas.

You are pushing an agenda that you think will give you the most advantage. Your posting indicates a strategy where you replace moon gold with rat gold, that shifts the balance from empire to 0.0 in isk generation, maintaining your advantage, and nullifying your need to pull back on systems and cyno jammers. My position is different from Goons, as is a lot of other people who have posted. You shouldn't presume to speak for other people, speak for yourself. I don't buy this "white hat" stuff coming from Goons, the entire idea of your alliance is to act like bastards. Its also a campaign launched straight from Goonfleet forums, not some spontaneous uprising. I also get the CVA and Atlas type issues. The CVA issues especially are very different from Goons. Goons are, as usual, shouting over everyone else. Just because you are the loudest doesn't mean you are the only voice.

Can I have your stuff?

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:30:00 - [2658]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 09/11/2009 22:32:20
Quote:
I honestly would love to run Cosmic Anomalies instead of doing belt ratting because they are far more interesting. But in typical CCP fashion they released them pre-nerfed and they are basically worthless when compared to normal belt ratting.


I keep seeing comments similar to this. You will be happy to know that anomalies will be getting bumped to be as lucurative as level 4's when fully upgraded. You gain 2 per upgrade (in addition to any that naturally occur), the respawn insantly and without limit. These 10 high end anomalies should keep quite a few people busy over a 23hr period (4-6hrs per person per anomaly over a period of a day adds up to quite a few people).

Keep in mind this is in addition to the natural resources that are already in that system.

Also keep in mind that the surrounding systems will be just as lucurative as the are currently.

Most importantly, keep in mind that this is only one of the 5 sources of upgradeable income, and some of the others (high quality plexs, high end wormholes) provide even more income for even larger groups.

And finally, more upgrade options are being planned, they wish to see how these pan out first.

Bottom line, the average member of a 0.0 alliance is going to have far more isk making potential than they ever had before... concentrated in their home systems. Yes, running level 4's is comparable to what the anomalies will be , but that is only one source of income available (nor the most lucurative)... which is very, very nice if mission running doesn't thrill you to support your PVP habit.

Kepakh
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:30:00 - [2659]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure
And yes, I'm not the casual-player like alot of you're pretending to be, but I've spoken with alot of corp/alliance-members about this, and noone of them would've a problem with contributing some 5-10 million ISK a day to the corp to keep up with the bills.
And why should they complain? All fleet-ships are 100% funded by the corp, and that even includes the needed Tech 2-ships like Interceptors, Dictors, HICs and Logistics. HACs are given out for some special OPs aswell.

I don't know what alot of corps/alliances are doing differently, that this doesn't work out for them, but I guess it's greed and egoism.

So yeah... we're happily looking forward to the expansion, as nothing really changes for us, but we'll have the option to invest some money to provide some more PvE-content for our members in 0.0.


Pretty much this.

If you want to change anything about 'homogeneous' 0.0 as stated in the dev blog, you need to give corp/alliance MORE passive ISK, not less.

More ISK and tools how to manage your resources means more possibiltities for leaders to run their corps/alliance and in the end making 0.0 more attractive as well as more fun.

PVE grind is nice bonus but far from any deal breaker affecting how 0.0 works.


Thanks for post, Vivian.

Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:30:00 - [2660]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Ben Derindar
Originally by: Kerdrak
The funniest of all this topic is that CCP will end NERFING empire lvl4's to balance this expansion Laughing

I'm actually seriously starting to wonder the same thing. If it starts to look like CCP will take a subscriber hit regardless of what they do next, moving the remaining high-sec L4 agents to low-sec may actually emerge as the best option for the game at that point.



Haha, yeah sure. Only problem is that most of the subscribers are hardcore carebears and if CCP will take away their toys then they will just quit.

As opposed to pretty much everyone in 0.0 threatening the same thing? Read what I wrote again: if people are going to quit regardless, then it matters less whatever CCP does next.

Originally by: Gnulpie
Look how many people are in 0.0 (20%?) and how many are in high sec (80%?) and then you can get an idea what is more important to CCP, 0.0 or high sec.

That's a bit simplistic. I for one would love to see a breakdown of that 80%:

1. How many are RMT farmers who we all want gone from the game anyway?

2. How many of them are alts of 0.0 types who would move back to 0.0 once that became the more lucrative option?

3. How many belong to that very group of people that Dominion is aimed at, the smaller corps/alliances who would also consider a move to 0.0 if they too saw it as being sufficiently worthwhile, but currently don't (and rightly so)?

Let's take another look at this often-asked question:
Quote:
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running

If the question were to be worded in a more generic sense, such as:
Quote:
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than the most lucrative high-sec activity

...with the assumption that high-sec income options are somewhat balanced relative to each other, then I would answer a resounding YES. But the original question is much harder to answer because it highlights not the lack of income opportunities in 0.0, but the fact that highsec L4 mission running trumps them all.

So then the argument becomes "OK, so nerf L4s". OK sure, so some in highsec would quit the game I don't deny that, but I think your numbers are overstated, and if enough 0.0 folk are upset about Dominion at this point to consider quitting over it anyway, then your point becomes moot.

Again I propose that the problem here is not 0.0 being underpowered, but that highsec L4 missions are overpowered, but at what point does the price of fixing them anyway become worthwhile?

By the look of this thread, I just wonder if that point may be closer than we realise.

/Ben

Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:33:00 - [2661]
 

Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Pointfive
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Tesal


YES OR NO: Can I have your stuff.




Seriosly.

CCP:

* 75 % of crying post are off goons, sudden defenders of small alliances .
* Changes and upkeep cost sound pretty good but there IS still problem with lvl4.
* Consider icreasing bounties of rats so running anomalies will be some more profitable of lvl4 .
* It could good to add some more usefull upgrades some of which were mentioned in this thread.
* Chaniging moon stuff in BPO requirments for t2 stuff was the worst way to deal with moon minerals changes , i am dissapointed in this regard. We still dont know how it will impact EVE economy



The majority of the wgoons re not hining about moon or sov prices, they are complaining about the same ****. The null sec income being crap and level 4s being too good.


I have heards goons crying about :

* Star wars game and expansion that killed it NGE ? And saying it is coming to eve
* That 0.0 is now worthless and they are going to farm lvl4 , then saying they stay for other reasons when i am talking about moving to delve.
* insulting other poeple beggining on that some have no idea of 0.0 and they(goons) knows everything ending on nerds that lives in mothers basement.
* complaints that now they cant pvp in carriers and titans for free.
* complaining that now they cant cyno jam and jump bridge entire regions.
* crying about small alliances that they suddenly feel so much sympathy for that they cant afford to hold sov.

and many more that i missed ...

And no, null sec is no crap after expansion.

Moons + rats + hi lvl plexes + hi lvl wormholes gives very decent income. You just have to work a litte more ( no more afk empires ) and cant roll caps like they were rifters.

The anomalies are there to give you opportunity to keep isks flowing 23/7. The only thing i dont like they are at the level with lvl4.They should give more.

Also mining is broken beacuse of : lvl4 loot and drones .But thats the diffrent story.

Also CCP what about drones regions. How do you compensate no bounties thing ?




I am challenging you right now to find a single post where a GoonSwarm member is complaining about any one of those bullet points. Keep in mind that no one is "crying for" smaller alliances we are just pointing out that larger alliances like ours are hurt the least by this.

Sometimes I really wish I could sit down and talk to someone face to face about this because you apparently are having a very hard time understanding when it is written.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:36:00 - [2662]
 

Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 09/11/2009 22:38:40
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 09/11/2009 22:37:13
dude i will not sort through 90 pages , really.

I am sure there are there , maybe your not one of them personally though.

And i agree arguing on forums is like ... i am sure we both know this.

Itzena
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:47:00 - [2663]
 

Originally by: Tesal
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar
A lot of you seem to think that we're "whining" because we don't want to lose our big D&Q-shaped "blob" on the map.

This isn't the case. We've been chatting for months on how we'd probably be forced to "consolidate" our space and how to do so while retaining the most defensibility. Little did we know that with these changes the space wouldn't be worth *keeping* at all save for CSAAs.

This is not a "Goon" thing. As usual we're just the most vocal. Rooting for this because it hurts us hurts everyone who has space who doesn't like us. There would be nothing to do but defend and carebear. Going to war, you know, those things that give EVE such good press, would be entirely suicidal in this new system, and either wouldn't happen, or would simply cease after a few battles. Exciting, huh?

But you don't care. This is CAOD. Here any nameless/corpless ******* can post something as if he knows what the hell he's talking about (or troll, snipe, or egg on) and be heard as if he *did* know what he was talking about. Maybe just to possibly see himself quoted or to get some sense of "power" over someone he feels needs to be taken down a peg.

Under this patch, with these "upgrades," 0.0 space will not be worth holding. NPC 0.0 will become the de facto new "must have." The "nerf" to moon mining will mean less T2 submaterials on the market which in turn will mean drastically higher prices for everything T2. Less ABC ores on the market will hurt everything else.

So yeah, have your fun claiming "you've got ten alts all of which are in 0.0, billionaires, and are 'important men in the internet spaceship community.'" You'll suffer as much as us if this goes through.


This isn't CAOD. You answer to everyone in this forum, including "nameless" corps.

Yes, you suffering would make me happy. Yes, under this patch space isn't worth holding. THAT IS THE POINT OF THE PATCH. It is to force you to consolidate.

Hey, you do realise that half of Delve is NPC 0.0 and therefore will cost us nothing, right? In fact, it's even got L4 missions in it.

Quote:
All the same rats that exist now, will be there after the patch, except there will be more rats in upgraded space.

Terrible deadspace rats with awful loot/bounties.
Quote:
The big change/loss is in moon gold. This is INTENDED to deprive you of income. The idea of Sov is being changed to its core, it is a flag, its no longer the literal indication of control it used to be. For real military control you will have to fight outside your Sov areas.

To what purpose? If there's nothing worth fighting over any more, and Alliance income is nerfed...why risk capfleets to seize more worthless space that will only cost money?

Tesal
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:51:00 - [2664]
 

Originally by: Itzena

To what purpose? If there's nothing worth fighting over any more, and Alliance income is nerfed...why risk capfleets to seize more worthless space that will only cost money?


Nothing worth fighting for?

I don't like you. I want to see you die and your empire burn.

Itzena
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:55:00 - [2665]
 

Edited by: Itzena on 09/11/2009 22:55:16
Originally by: Tesal
Originally by: Itzena

To what purpose? If there's nothing worth fighting over any more, and Alliance income is nerfed...why risk capfleets to seize more worthless space that will only cost money?


Nothing worth fighting for?

I don't like you. I want to see you die and your empire burn.


I'm hurt. Crying or Very sad

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:57:00 - [2666]
 

Quote:
Terrible deadspace rats with awful loot/bounties.


No. Upgraded deadspace rats that generate income comparable to running level 4's, that respawn instantly and without limit.

Just keeping you honest, carry on.

Tesal
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:57:00 - [2667]
 

Edited by: Tesal on 09/11/2009 23:00:10
Originally by: Itzena
Edited by: Itzena on 09/11/2009 22:55:16
Originally by: Tesal
Originally by: Itzena

To what purpose? If there's nothing worth fighting over any more, and Alliance income is nerfed...why risk capfleets to seize more worthless space that will only cost money?


Nothing worth fighting for?

I don't like you. I want to see you die and your empire burn.


I'm hurt. Crying or Very sad


Remember the feeling when you took Delve? Did you really fight BoB for isk? *You have to ask what it all means.

Kepakh
Posted - 2009.11.09 22:59:00 - [2668]
 

Originally by: Tesal
Remember the feeling when you took Delve? Did you really fight BoB for isk?

What? Did they fight? Shocked

Vivian Azure
Posted - 2009.11.09 23:00:00 - [2669]
 

Edited by: Vivian Azure on 09/11/2009 23:02:01
Originally by: Itzena
Edited by: Itzena on 09/11/2009 22:55:16
Originally by: Tesal
Originally by: Itzena

To what purpose? If there's nothing worth fighting over any more, and Alliance income is nerfed...why risk capfleets to seize more worthless space that will only cost money?


Nothing worth fighting for?

I don't like you. I want to see you die and your empire burn.


I'm hurt. Crying or Very sad


Seriously. The biggest wars on earth were'nt fought over ressources, but because of religious, political or social reasons.

So just start a campaign against some other alliance, because they have a period in their name or whatever.
If you really want to fight, then you'll find a reason.

If you don't wanna fight however, and just do the carebear-stuff and get utterly rich... well... then leave 0.0 and do the carebearing in empire Wink

Adam Ridgway
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.11.09 23:04:00 - [2670]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure

Seriously. The biggest wars on earth were'nt fought over ressources, but because of religious, political or social reasons.


Not only you are clueless about EVE, you also are compeltlly clueless about RL. GTFO.


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