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Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.11.09 08:45:00 - [2311]
 

Originally by: Kepakh
Originally by: gambrinous

ah no, that's pretty standard, there's a thread somewhere

also, not sure how much it weighs on the equation, but the highsec missions can be done semi afk, try that in 0.0 (e.g. come home from work, start mission, manage agro, go cook dinner)



I know the thread. You won't make the ISK semi AFK. The guy is running the most efficient mission ship in the game with good skills and game knowledge.

Stop trolling, ffs.


One last thing for the evening.

Kepakh, all of your posts have been both factual and to the point. Well done. Nice to see someone who isn't running around screaming inane Memes.

Kanatta Jing, I think you may be operating at a level well beyond the one in this thread. It may be obvious to you and I that these instantly re spawning anomalies can be worked endlessly by large groups that never have to leave their home system, and generate huge amounts of convenient ISK, but most won't get that. That's why I have avoided bringing it up and focused on other matters.

However, since common sense is only generating hysterical replies perhaps your approach will get through to them. You may have to explain it to them a couple of times though. Wink



Ryixezu
Amarr
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.09 08:48:00 - [2312]
 

Edited by: Ryixezu on 09/11/2009 08:52:04
Originally by: Ranger 1
Kanatta Jing, I think you may be operating at a level well beyond the one in this thread. It may be obvious to you and I that these instantly re spawning anomalies can be worked endlessly by large groups that never have to leave their home system, and generate huge amounts of convenient ISK, but most won't get that. That's why I have avoided bringing it up and focused on other matters.

Absolutely, having an infinite resource available with instant respawn as soon as you complete it would be extremely abused.

EDIT: I do really dislike using irony on forums but this one was too good to let go.

gambrinous
Posted - 2009.11.09 08:53:00 - [2313]
 

Originally by: Kepakh
Edited by: Kepakh on 09/11/2009 08:45:51
Originally by: gambrinous

it's not better than what I have now, now I have to JC to empire to run L4, post patch this won't change. I'm an average grunt in some average space in 0.0, these benefits don't mean anything at all to me.


No harm being done to you with Dominion, means no reasons for complain and trolling.


u went from telling me it was better to telling me it's the same

Kepakh
Posted - 2009.11.09 08:58:00 - [2314]
 

Originally by: gambrinous
u went from telling me it was better to telling me it's the same


No, I didn't. It is objectively better, the fact you won't use space upgrades is your personal choice only.

Do you mind to stop trolling?

gambrinous
Posted - 2009.11.09 08:59:00 - [2315]
 

Originally by: Ryixezu
Edited by: Ryixezu on 09/11/2009 08:52:04
Originally by: Ranger 1
Kanatta Jing, I think you may be operating at a level well beyond the one in this thread. It may be obvious to you and I that these instantly re spawning anomalies can be worked endlessly by large groups that never have to leave their home system, and generate huge amounts of convenient ISK, but most won't get that. That's why I have avoided bringing it up and focused on other matters.

Absolutely, having an infinite resource available with instant respawn as soon as you complete it would be extremely abused.

EDIT: I do really dislike using irony on forums but this one was too good to let go.


empty quoting atlas cause it's the thing to do now :P

doh, going too fast, so while I wait:
it supports 10 ppl, if ccp would just chuck agents in there, then yes1!!, but that is too hard (TM)

my question still stands, what to do with the other 990 alliance members aside from grab 100 more systems to fill with anomalies? if ccp wants alliances to reduce their space they need to make it usable.

gambrinous
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:04:00 - [2316]
 

Originally by: Kepakh
Originally by: gambrinous
u went from telling me it was better to telling me it's the same


No, I didn't. It is objectively better, the fact you won't use space upgrades is your personal choice only.

Do you mind to stop trolling?


What do you even mean? The fact I won't use them is because they aren't any better than what I do already. aren't . any . better .

how about you stop trolling me (actually don't worry too much, I'm just alt tabbing to a mission anyway *sigh*)

Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:04:00 - [2317]
 

Originally by: Ryixezu
Edited by: Ryixezu on 09/11/2009 08:52:04
Originally by: Ranger 1
Kanatta Jing, I think you may be operating at a level well beyond the one in this thread. It may be obvious to you and I that these instantly re spawning anomalies can be worked endlessly by large groups that never have to leave their home system, and generate huge amounts of convenient ISK, but most won't get that. That's why I have avoided bringing it up and focused on other matters.

Absolutely, having an infinite resource available with instant respawn as soon as you complete it would be extremely abused.

EDIT: I do really dislike using irony on forums but this one was too good to let go.


At this point I feel nothing at unironically quoting Atlas, nothing.

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE CCP.

Kepakh
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:06:00 - [2318]
 

Whole risk vs reward whine is invalid.

There is no risk in 0.0, there is a certain loss only. It is only a matter of time when you lose something.

This is not that much a matter of risk balancing since being in 0.0 or low sec is your choice and your prefered playstyle but what is important here is to offer players who gets their things blown up a way to recover from their loses. You need this income so the game won't turn into grind fest with PVP being too ISK/grind dependant.

Moon income fills this role and this role is not being changed. Space upgrades will remain your pocket ISK as current 0.0 belts/deadspace are, just slightly improved.

Vanzatoarea
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:07:00 - [2319]
 

god...everyone suporting this crap is a troll?

come on , no serious good arguments for this patch?

fact : a decent mission runner that knows what he`s doing can manage 4 x l4`s/hour

now i cant quite remember what the payoff for those is in empire but...

factoring my income in l4`s for sansha in stain and calculating lp @ 1k/lp (it`s more i know but humor me) , without taking loot into consideration and keeping in mind that in there rats have no bounty (so i`m talking just reward+bonus+lp) i can climb to 60-70m/hour easy...now rating there on the other hand (-1.0 , as good as rating gets) ..it`s really hard to hit 30=35m/hour mark

exploration isnt really worth mentioning as 90% of it is utter crap

and i didnt even factor the "no risk" thing in yet...for me on a personal level , 30m/hour without risk in semi-afk mode while i can fly a cloaky ship somewhere with my main is far more attractive then 30-40m/hour rating while always checking intel and pausing to switch ships whenever some red comes around ...only to return and find someone else moved in my chained system or ****ed up my chains

so why? because there is (was?) something to aim for. The "power" was there for the taking for someone determined enough . If only in the illusion of once my alliance grabbing a r64 somehow and getting filthy rich..even though that would probably still leave me rating...it was a nice thing to aim for...oh and destroying goons...that is always a nice goal

now what is there to look forward to in 0.0? Am i missing something here? Because it cant be the opportunity to pay a ****load of isk so i can farm worse then i am now to keep paying isk ...

I`m not in it for the tears....those are easy enough to farm suiciding in highsec...so what`s left in 0.0? See i`m one of those willing to put up with crap if there is something there to aim for...so please enlighten me...what ???

Again , if i didnt make myself clear enough , what is there left to aim for in 0.0 ? Mediocre passive income from nerfed moons is all i can come up with now , and that coupled with the rediculous costs that come with sov now , that wont make anyone overpowered and /or filthy rich anymore

the CHANCHE to become overpowered someday is a good thing...a leveled playing field where everyone gets to be just as special as the next kid is a bad thing! So what? is the entire ideea to get everyone the same income nomatter what they do or dont do?

**** you CCP!!

Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:08:00 - [2320]
 

Originally by: Kepakh

You make +45M/hour on single account mission running only if you run a Marauder. LP revenue is already included in +45M mark as well as loot and other mission income.

As for the rest of the post...I don't know a single alliance that would hold their space just because of moons. Sov holding is solely depending on your military/diplomatic effort.

Sorry, it is you being clueless here.


The thread where that information is listed is a decent benchmark, but is not the most effective way to run missions. With a torp golem you gank your way through the mission as fast as possible, cherry picking wrecks as you go. This leaves you with 35+ mil/hr in bounties, doubles your LP, and still gets you decent loot and salvage.

Where you can hold space is decided through diplomatic means, the act of holding space is run through towers, which can be used to perform in some industrial capacity to help mitigate the cost of running the towers in the first place. Come dominion most alliances will probably let sov slip and just keep the towers up if they still economically viable.

Kanatta Jing
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:14:00 - [2321]
 

Originally by: gambrinous
empty quoting atlas cause it's the thing to do now :P

doh, going too fast, so while I wait:
it supports 10 ppl, if ccp would just chuck agents in there, then yes1!!, but that is too hard (TM)

my question still stands, what to do with the other 990 alliance members aside from grab 100 more systems to fill with anomalies? if ccp wants alliances to reduce their space they need to make it usable.


10 people on line at a time...6 hours game time each, 24 hours in a day = 40 people + the original numbers from before from belts, idling in station, plexing and so forth and so on.

basically means an alliance with 1000 active members would only need 20 systems...

Cause if your alliance had 1000 active members all at once you'd be 1/5 of all the people on eve on a busy day, and by rights you would have a 1/5 chunk of 0.0 space at least right?

Assuming of course... One person to an anomaly and no one wants to mine Bistot. Because no one would want to risk a Covetor to mine the best ores in the game right?

Seriously I think you can fully exploit the power of a 1000 man alliance in as little as 10 systems.

Pointfive
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:18:00 - [2322]
 

Originally by: Kepakh
Whole risk vs reward whine is invalid.

There is no risk in 0.0, there is a certain loss only. It is only a matter of time when you lose something.

This is not that much a matter of risk balancing since being in 0.0 or low sec is your choice and your prefered playstyle but what is important here is to offer players who gets their things blown up a way to recover from their loses. You need this income so the game won't turn into grind fest with PVP being too ISK/grind dependant.

Moon income fills this role and this role is not being changed. Space upgrades will remain your pocket ISK as current 0.0 belts/deadspace are, just slightly improved.




Yes there is no risk because, you have decided to rename risk loss. Hint when people say risk they mean you risk losing something. Also because someone chooses to go to a dangerous space it should have no reward is insane. The whole point of this expansion is to drive people out to nullsec. They are going to choose to do it if they dont get anything out of the deal. Paying to upgrade space to make the money they already make in high sec with the risk of dying, how awesome. People want PERSONAL gain to increase, moon goo has nothing to do with it.

Biggi Raeubertochter
Minmatar
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:21:00 - [2323]
 

Edited by: Biggi Raeubertochter on 09/11/2009 09:25:19

correct me if im wrong, but POS upkeep costs can to a large part be covered by ice-mining, and only a relative minor part comes from buying stuff from NPC´s.

So, with the current sov system, the major part of the sov upkeep costs could be covered with ice mining and then producing isotopes out of it.

In other words: 0.0 sov holders could actively produce stuff to cover a large part of their upkeep costs.

But now CCP did away with the part where you can cover most of the upkeep costs by yourself. Now its becoming a pure isk sink.

And you can do nothing to reduce the isk sink.

I think thats wrong. Thats why they need to reduce the upkeep costs they have planned significantly, to a reasonable level.

Please quote this, if you agree

Gordon Reiss
Double-Down
Demolition Notice
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:24:00 - [2324]
 

It's the mechanics STUPID!

I'm just another naive hopeful that bought into the poetic vision that Greyscale sang some months back. I really had great hope and excitement for Dominion.

But the machine you describe in this Dev Blog is boxlike and boring. And it does nothing to liven up null sec in my mind. I see no signs of the vision so eloquently described over the last few months.

Where are the stratigic targets for alliances to fight over?
What is the incentive for new pilots to venture in to null sec?

I don't get it.

Sorry CCP, but please elaborate because something BIG is missing here. You guys need to quit this silent treatment and just spill it already.

There is no way this is it...

Vanzatoarea
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:24:00 - [2325]
 

Originally by: Kanatta Jing


QFT, the real reason most of 0.0 is not used is because it is useless. it plain sucks.

but ccp won't look at that because its too hard. like grouping weapons was too hard.




Maxed space upgrades gain your system 10 insta respawn anomalies independent on true sec.


so that's 10 ppl that can "mission", what about the other 1000? oh ye, just claim a 100 systems ... wait Rolling Eyes

do you live there? I do, those upgrades are meaning less to me.

E: btw where did all the uninformed trolls come from all of a sudden, lol is ccp back at work and poasting on their alts?


1 person per infinite and instant respawning anomaly would be a waste.

Stop and think about it seriously until you see how something containing the words infinite and instant can be exploited.

And I do live in 0.0 and I'm tired of earning ISK solo when I know I should be able to make more as part of a fleet.


GAAAAAH idiot!!!!!

dude , l4`s are just as infinite

if you have any ideea what you`re up to you can get most of them in same system or 1 j away at most! 3 or 4 of them at the same time!

if you have 3 (20 is a waste of firepower moron) determined people you can prety much be shooting rats non-stop , the only "pause" beeing the warp time between mission spots and (gasp!) the eventual need to go 1j awya (the horor! all of 30 sec to do 1 jump!)

now compare that to 10x anomalies that may just MAY not be pure utter crap...and in fact act like 10 belts you need to probe down...you can keep 10 people max in there because in 90% of these anomalies more then 1 person is a waste . ANd as it has been said before,these 10 persons will each go for a separate anomaly (it simply isnt worth geting 2x people in one for the same reason it aint worth getin 2 people in a l4)...and will end up steping on eachother`s toes

Zerakix
Minmatar
The White Mantle
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:31:00 - [2326]
 

How hard is it to kill a flag? How much will cost a corp time and money (Fee and purchase costs)wise if you pop a fully pimped out flag and hub with sov 5 compared to a maxed out sov system now?

gambrinous
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:31:00 - [2327]
 

Edited by: gambrinous on 09/11/2009 09:45:50
Edited by: gambrinous on 09/11/2009 09:36:11
Originally by: Kanatta Jing
basically means an alliance with 1000 active members would only need 20 systems...


until those 20 systems get shut down by afk cloakers

earning money in 0.0:
100% attention to local
never afk
scouts/intel channels to move anywhere
a single red hangs in your sys = interrupted isk flow
haul decent drops/salvage to an empire hub where it pays

earning money in highsec:
grab one of the infinite insta respawning missions
do it, semi afk
dump everything in the hub ur in/next to where it pays
??

I think there's a clue store somewhere round here

Aquinzus
Amarr
Modern Marvels
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:34:00 - [2328]
 

Edited by: Aquinzus on 09/11/2009 09:42:03
I just wish one person could tell me why CCP cant just fix the Ore in 0.0? How hard would it be to adjust what ore is where so Miners could mine something worth mining.

How hard would it be to put each ore type in every belt in 0.0 just less of the best ore like Bistot etc, but at least some of it. That is something I have never understood. Ore is ass backwards, your in 0.0 so you should have all ore types in each belt, but more of the rarer ores in the better true sec, but at least some ore in the **** systems as well.

I mean why is Kernite in Empire Amarr space and not in 0.0 Amarr space but Omber is ? And then Pyroxeres is everywhere in Empire but not any where in **** 0.0 space, it is beter to mine in low sec that in 0.0 that should tell you something about 0.0 right there.

I once found a grav site in Empire that had better Ore than most 0.0 space that I have ever seen, if you can put that ore in grav sites you can stick it in the regular belts. The belts dont have to be stuffed full of it but it should be there.

I propose a breakdown like this:

Veldspar - 15%
Scordite - 15%
Plagioclase - 10%
Omber - 10%
Kernite - 10%
Pyroxeres - 10%
Jaspet - 4%
Hedbergite - 4%
Hemorphite - 4%
Dark Ochre - 3%
Gneiss - 3%
Spudomain - 3%
Arknor - 3%
Bistot - 3%
mercoxit - 3%

And then when you get to that better true sec space, just invert the ore amounts to make it on par with what better space is: Veldspar 3% mercoxit 15% etc etc. Makes tru sec more rich and still makes all 0.0 worth something.



And how hard would it be to actually buff the rats that spawn in 0.0 ? I mean your in 0.0 even if it is **** 0.0 you should be able to make better isk than in 0.8 running missions care free.

This is just so wrong on so many levels it boggles the mind.


Drone Regions have all the best Ore there is, all you have to do is grab a Raven and a crap ton of missles and go mining for compounds that refine into everything from Trit to Morphite.

I call BS on that.

Kepakh
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:39:00 - [2329]
 

Edited by: Kepakh on 09/11/2009 09:46:04
Originally by: Pointfive
Yes there is no risk because, you have decided to rename risk loss. Hint when people say risk they mean you risk losing something. Also because someone chooses to go to a dangerous space it should have no reward is insane. The whole point of this expansion is to drive people out to nullsec. They are going to choose to do it if they dont get anything out of the deal. Paying to upgrade space to make the money they already make in high sec with the risk of dying, how awesome. People want PERSONAL gain to increase, moon goo has nothing to do with it.


I didn't rename anything, it is the way it is.

Moon income has everything to do with it. Are you willing to fund Station deployment or your shiny super cap loss through your personal wallet? I guess not.

0.0 is not a solo content thus making it more rewarding than other solo content like empire is not very reasonable. There is no need for High sec mk2.

This is the main concern and worries about changes that will come after the Dominion and whines for higher personal rewards make it even worse. 0.0 needs more group rewards than anything else.

Jita TradeAlt
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:41:00 - [2330]
 

Originally by: Holly Hotdrop
Originally by: Anahid Brutus
**** it, i'll do your job for you.

First off, you need objectives that people want to fight over. Not useless grindy **** that absolutely NO ONE wants to do and can't even be fought over, so here's the solution:

- Leave R64s as large scale alliance objectives. If the income is too high(which it probably is), simply lower the dysp/prom reqs on T2 construction jobs. Problem solved. No need to tear apart the whole system with your terrible, terrible large-scale switch-around solution that will just frustrate players. No need for your completely terrible and overly complex alchemy either.

- Reintroduce static plexes as small-gang objectives. Active income, can be fought over without a 200 man fleet. Worth the effort compared to L4s in empire, reduce the number of them if they aren't being fought over.

- For individual income then make deep 0.0, ie. 2-3 carrier jumps out of low-sec, all perfect true sec, increase rat spawn rates/quality/bounties by 50%(no frig/cruiser spawns 50 jumps from jita, ~3m bounty rats), make all BS rats scram you(if you're out of scram range then they tank really hard, so no kiting) and now 0.0 is kinda risky, yet rewarding enough to be worth the effort. You definitely won't have solo ravens being able to rat and just cloak up whenever someone comes through, but some active, organized defense and you'll be making isk worth your while.


Sov shouldn't be important since let's be honest, no one really gives a ****(money motivates people, not some gay towers or something), and as such it really shouldn't be the focus, but:
- remove cyno jammers
- make the sov holding structure something with dual reinforcement timers that orbits the sun, no maint costs needed, but it needs to be reinforceable by a 20 man bs fleet in a reasonable amount of time. the limit on the size of empires will be that disrupting sov will be doable by small groups of players, not some arbitrary maintenance fees.(don't make it an outpost since people will just sit on undock with their carriers like big gays)

oh and kill exploration/wormspace, that **** is just anti-social.
qft
i'll quote this on every page until every single point is implemented

Karanth
Gallente
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:48:00 - [2331]
 

Edited by: Karanth on 09/11/2009 09:47:49
Quote:
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.


I want to know the answer to this here question.


Yon Krum
The Knights Templar
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:50:00 - [2332]
 

Originally by: Aquinzus

I just wish one person could tell me why CCP cant just fix the Ore in 0.0? How hard would it be to adjust what ore is where so Miners could mine something worth mining.



For the same reason the guaranteed grav site upgrade is of marginal utility: the minerals go into a secondary market that gets its ISK from primary sources such as missions/rat bounties/insurance. In other words, if too much mining happens of "valuable" ores the price crashes. Exhibit A: Drone regions and high-ends.

Dominion is shaping up to be a huge ISK-sink (with likely economic effects concurrent to that, which I shan't get into atm). CCP needs a similar mineral-sink before increasing the availability of ores more freely.

I am already expecting high-end prices to crash over the next six months (unless more macroers get banned, of course).

--Krum

Cuchulin
DEFCON.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:53:00 - [2333]
 

Edited by: Cuchulin on 09/11/2009 10:00:52
Quote:
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.


simple answer to this question ccp....

Cuchulin

edit:
Quote:
0.0 needs more group rewards than anything else.

qft....unfortunatly the planned system upgrades dont do anything for this ....

Kanatta Jing
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:54:00 - [2334]
 

Originally by: Vanzatoarea
GAAAAAH idiot!!!!!

dude , l4`s are just as infinite

if you have any ideea what you`re up to you can get most of them in same system or 1 j away at most! 3 or 4 of them at the same time!

if you have 3 (20 is a waste of firepower moron) determined people you can prety much be shooting rats non-stop , the only "pause" beeing the warp time between mission spots and (gasp!) the eventual need to go 1j awya (the horor! all of 30 sec to do 1 jump!)

now compare that to 10x anomalies that may just MAY not be pure utter crap...and in fact act like 10 belts you need to probe down...you can keep 10 people max in there because in 90% of these anomalies more then 1 person is a waste . ANd as it has been said before,these 10 persons will each go for a separate anomaly (it simply isnt worth geting 2x people in one for the same reason it aint worth getin 2 people in a l4)...and will end up steping on eachother`s toes


I spent like 20 minutes trying to think of how to convince you I was right. Then I realized that was silly.

The real test as to who is right will be in the months following Dec 1. See you in 6 months, we'll know who was being foolish then.

Zerakix
Minmatar
The White Mantle
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:58:00 - [2335]
 

Edited by: Zerakix on 09/11/2009 10:06:13
Edited by: Zerakix on 09/11/2009 10:02:04
Originally by: Karanth
Edited by: Karanth on 09/11/2009 09:47:49
Quote:
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.


I want to know the answer to this here question.




Didn't a CCP guy imply or at least I read it as that they'll increase 0.0 profit after this patch because they need to see how it works out first before they can add ya know profit to 0.0 so it will be out soonish. Kinda like walking in stations err Incara. So.. 0.0 will be profitable in Winter 2013... make that winter 2015!

Actually given what was sorta implied for Spring 2010 update my money is on the profit being from planetary interaction and new content related to it. I'm so happy I opted to not move to 0.0 once i heard CCP was going to make 0.0 "better" in the winter patch. 6 months of limited isk should help reduce the server load related to massive pewpew in 0.0


Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.11.09 10:01:00 - [2336]
 

Originally by: Gordon Reiss
It's the mechanics STUPID!

I'm just another naive hopeful that bought into the poetic vision that Greyscale sang some months back. I really had great hope and excitement for Dominion.

But the machine you describe in this Dev Blog is boxlike and boring. And it does nothing to liven up null sec in my mind. I see no signs of the vision so eloquently described over the last few months.

Where are the stratigic targets for alliances to fight over?
What is the incentive for new pilots to venture in to null sec?


I don't get it.

Sorry CCP, but please elaborate because something BIG is missing here. You guys need to quit this silent treatment and just spill it already.

There is no way this is it...


That is exactly the point.

Remember all the goons a couple of years ago in rifters mixing up the landscape? Did they care if they could earn more isk running l4's in high sec? NO!!

Do the alliance members in 0.0 currently care if they can earn more in high sec grinding npc mission after npc mission? NO!!

They are almost all in 0.0 because of the thrilling PVP! Because of fleet battles. Because of forming empires and kicking their enemies in the balls where it hurts. They are in 0.0 because of banding together for a goal to achieve.

If you want to grind PVE then go to empire. Or go to wormholes where you can earn 5 times as much as in l4's - at least.

Yes, it is good to have OPTIONS available for the alliances. If some alliance wants to be more industry based and their members mining, okay, they should have the option. If some alliances want to exploit other resources, fine, let them. And if other alliances want pvp, great.

BUT DO NOT FORCE PEOPLE TO DO A SINGLE PLAYSTYLE!!! Don't force people to grind grind grind stupid pve stuff only that they can afford the system bill - especially not when they have enough pvp people to defend the system easily. That should be enough!


It absolutely doesn't make any sense that you would lose a system when you are strong enough to hold it and no one would ever be able to capture it nor even attempted to capture it! Such a game mechanic is idiotic and should have no place in 0.0 or anywhere else in Eve!!

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.09 10:09:00 - [2337]
 

Originally by: gambrinous
Originally by: Ryixezu
Edited by: Ryixezu on 09/11/2009 08:52:04
Originally by: Ranger 1
Kanatta Jing, I think you may be operating at a level well beyond the one in this thread. It may be obvious to you and I that these instantly re spawning anomalies can be worked endlessly by large groups that never have to leave their home system, and generate huge amounts of convenient ISK, but most won't get that. That's why I have avoided bringing it up and focused on other matters.

Absolutely, having an infinite resource available with instant respawn as soon as you complete it would be extremely abused.

EDIT: I do really dislike using irony on forums but this one was too good to let go.


empty quoting atlas cause it's the thing to do now :P

doh, going too fast, so while I wait:
it supports 10 ppl, if ccp would just chuck agents in there, then yes1!!, but that is too hard (TM)

my question still stands, what to do with the other 990 alliance members aside from grab 100 more systems to fill with anomalies? if ccp wants alliances to reduce their space they need to make it usable.



If those 10 guys are on 23/7, yes you need 99 other upgraded systems for the other 990 members of the alliance.

The point is that you have 10 constant, ever present anomalies.

Every one of those anomalies can accommodate at least one player.

So, instead of having 2 players combing the belts in 6 hours shifts (so about 8 alliance member in a day using a system) you can have 2 players in the belts and 10 in the anomalies at the same times. In 6 hour shifts it mean a single system can provide a living for 48 players.

And your 1.000 alliance members can live in 20 upgraded systems (that is without considering mining or other activities).

You really think that a 500% increase of the people using a system is bad?


Sarah Norbulk
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
Posted - 2009.11.09 10:10:00 - [2338]
 

Originally by: Kepakh

I didn't rename anything, it is the way it is.

Moon income has everything to do with it. Are you willing to fund Station deployment or your shiny super cap loss through your personal wallet? I guess not.

0.0 is not a solo content thus making it more rewarding than other solo content like empire is not very reasonable. There is no need for High sec mk2.

This is the main concern and worries about changes that will come after the Dominion and whines for higher personal rewards make it even worse. 0.0 needs more group rewards than anything else.


It seems you and CCP have different ideas as to what 0.0 is supposed to be like. In case you didn't know CCP is nerfing the value of moongoo, which coincidentally nerfs the income of most 0.0 alliances. Ofc this was all well and good as alliances would be able to upgrade their space to make it viable for the alliance members to make isk there. Then the corps and through proxy the alliance would make isk from taxes. Well, the dev blog comes out and it turns out that the upgrades barely make collecting isk from 0.0 as effective as collecting isk from empire. You see the main issue is that the ability of the alliance to provide for it's members will diminish while owning space doesn't offer the members enough incentives over empire or NPC space to justify holding space. The loss of isk to the alliance from the moongoo directly effects the ability of the alliance to fund programs like ship replacement for its members, leading to the average 0.0 player being worse off.

Notitius Novos
Posted - 2009.11.09 10:15:00 - [2339]
 

Someone should compile the best bits of this thread into a mega-ragequit/"CCP-are-fail" thread, particularly any Dev replies, with 79 pages of mostly inane posts I cba digging through to find the gems.

Kepakh
Posted - 2009.11.09 10:18:00 - [2340]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul

empty quoting atlas cause it's the thing to do now :P

doh, going too fast, so while I wait:
it supports 10 ppl, if ccp would just chuck agents in there, then yes1!!, but that is too hard (TM)

my question still stands, what to do with the other 990 alliance members aside from grab 100 more systems to fill with anomalies? if ccp wants alliances to reduce their space they need to make it usable.



If those 10 guys are on 23/7, yes you need 99 other upgraded systems for the other 990 members of the alliance.

The point is that you have 10 constant, ever present anomalies.

Every one of those anomalies can accommodate at least one player.

So, instead of having 2 players combing the belts in 6 hours shifts (so about 8 alliance member in a day using a system) you can have 2 players in the belts and 10 in the anomalies at the same times. In 6 hour shifts it mean a single system can provide a living for 48 players.

And your 1.000 alliance members can live in 20 upgraded systems (that is without considering mining or other activities).

You really think that a 500% increase of the people using a system is bad?


Using man hours is more predicative.
10 anomalies per system is 23*30 = 690 man hours.


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