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Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2009.11.09 01:31:00 - [2131]
 

Originally by: Orb Lati
The key point is, brining more mineral into the system without out increasing the demand is not going to make miners any more money and will just end up tanking the prices even further.



Mineral prices will not tank anymore than they are now. If they do then it would be profitable to build T1 ships, insure them, and self destruct them. Insurance will hold mineral prices to a certain price.

hepatitisDD
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.09 01:33:00 - [2132]
 

Originally by: Inferno Styx

Survey Network

Scan strength increase of 5% per level for all probes in system. This upgrade allows advanced scanning techiques that allow Cloaks to be scanned through, Sig of .05 per level for all ships with cloak active.



HAHAHAHAHA Came for the cloak whining, did not leave disappointed.

Clone 333558
Posted - 2009.11.09 01:34:00 - [2133]
 

my 2isk (and first post on eve forums)

I was expecting/hoping there would be more meaningful requirements for alliances to have active players with a wide range of professions, not just mine X amount of ore and you get to upgrade your ore. I think there should be more bonuses to manufacturing in 0.0 space, to encourage alliances to not rely on empire for as many items.

a few ideas-

-Upgrades to ore in a system significantly increases its density
-When mining said ore, high bounty/good drop pirates relentlessly attack the mining party (miners require combat pilots/ratters, and combat pilots/ratters require miners)
-Production times/efficiency in a system can be significantly upgraded
-The cost of sovereignty could be similar or slightly less than what is proposed in the blog to discourage alliances holding space them cant actively "harvest"
-Implement some sort of "alliance store" to allow for easy exchange of ships/modules between alliance members.

This would make it feasible for a smallish alliance to take a few systems and really live in them, but they would need miners for ore, industrialists for ships/modules, and pvpers for defense against rats and raiding parties.

This combined with the new expense of jump bridges (which I like) would encourage players to live in 0.0 and only go into empire for a few scarce resources every so often.

Maybe its just how I imagine 0.0 - rich in raw resources ready to be had if people are willing to work for it (less passive moon income) and defend against the risks associated with lawless space.


Quesa
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.11.09 01:34:00 - [2134]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure

So far, you need 1 system to have PvE-content for 2 players. That includes belt-ratting and anomalies.

After the patch, you need one system to have PvE-content for 10 players, as the anomalies will instantly respawn after they're finished, and there'll be more of them aswell.

You may not find them anomalies worthwile, but that's your personal problem, if you allways ever compare ISK/h to LvL 4 missions.

If you're only looking for ISK, then go to empire and fly LvL 4 missions... it's that easy. Nobody forces you to strive out into 0.0.

Hey you, don't make comparisons to lvl4 missions.
BTW, go to Empire and run lvl4 missions to make ISK.
The hypocracy of people who don't know/live in 0.0 is immense.

Quote:
As I see it, 0.0 was never intended to have higher rewards then empire-mission-running, but approx the same. The only difference between 0.0 and empire is, that you can enforce your own rules in 0.0 shooting at everyone you don't like etc...
Right now you make more money running level 4's in safe space. If we keep gravitating towards risk vs. reward comparisons then my ability to make ISK should increase as my risk increases. Thus my isk in lawless space should be more than that of empire, you know, where rules prevent you from being destroyed 99.99999999% of the time?

Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.09 01:34:00 - [2135]
 

Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Orb Lati
The key point is, brining more mineral into the system without out increasing the demand is not going to make miners any more money and will just end up tanking the prices even further.



Mineral prices will not tank anymore than they are now. If they do then it would be profitable to build T1 ships, insure them, and self destruct them. Insurance will hold mineral prices to a certain price.


There's a simple and quick way to cause mineral prices to rise - nerf compounds dropped by rouge drones. Nearly all of the game's minerals come from there now, with a trickle from refining.

Dharh
Gallente
Ace Adventure Corp
Posted - 2009.11.09 01:36:00 - [2136]
 

Edited by: Dharh on 09/11/2009 01:36:46
Originally by: Korodan
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Orb Lati
The key point is, brining more mineral into the system without out increasing the demand is not going to make miners any more money and will just end up tanking the prices even further.



Mineral prices will not tank anymore than they are now. If they do then it would be profitable to build T1 ships, insure them, and self destruct them. Insurance will hold mineral prices to a certain price.


There's a simple and quick way to cause mineral prices to rise - nerf compounds dropped by rouge drones. Nearly all of the game's minerals come from there now, with a trickle from refining.


Kinda this. IMO this right here supersedes _all_ this other crap over 0.0

Kanatta Jing
Posted - 2009.11.09 01:43:00 - [2137]
 

Originally by: Lucas Pantelis
Edited by: Lucas Pantelis on 08/11/2009 23:44:50
Originally by: Kanatta Jing
One last time... Infinite any amount of ISK is still infinite ISK.

Infinite Anomaly ISK is still more infinite then finite Dypro moon income.

You just have an instance where more work yields more ISK, and in this instance extra work isn't a waste.
They can respawn as quickly and frequently as they like, they're still a finite resource limited by how quickly and for how long they can be run.


Your right, I don't think GoonSwarm has enough members to perpetually run Anomalies and Gravsites.

The rest of EVE has long known of the crippling shortage of members that GoonSwarm suffers from.

Yes...

So... how many AFK cloakers at a rate of 15 per system do we need to shut down all of Delve again?

Misaki Yuuko
Caldari
Posted - 2009.11.09 01:44:00 - [2138]
 

Originally by: Orb Lati
Stuff.


What you don't realize is that there won't be more input into the system, but the same. The same people running lvl4's in empire with alts will be the ones using 0.0 content to make money, only you will make it somewhat faster (if the upgrades were worth it, not like as suggested). It's actually easy to tweak isk sinks/faucets for CCP and a slight increase in percentage of certain sinks will be enough, one thing I agree though is sinks should be made specially to empire players, as this disavantage between 0.0 and empire is allready becoming too much of a joke.

The mineral value problem is an entire different problem that has to be looked at, but not directlly related to all this.

@Vivian Azure, stop posting. If you don't realize how bad is for game balance and game play for someone in 0.0 or even lowsec having to put so much more effort and overcome so much trouble to barelly make the same income as emprie lvl4 running you are trully biased and/or desillusional. Or you have drink too much Jade kool-aid 8which is the same anyway).

heck, I would say that in the incoming patch W-space (which value are almost enterelly player driven by supply/demand), NPC 0.0 and lowsec are much more balanced and almost fine in risk/reward grand scheme of things comparing them with baseline (empire lvl4 mission-whoring). Lowsec specially with FW missions and lvl5's (and occationally with exploration, even if that's not much casual-friendlly), and NPC 0.0 with broken truesec, higher faction/officer spawn chance, and pirate agents, specially with new rebalanced pirate ships which make them trully worth it (sansha were allready). But the rest of 0.0 is 'meh' at best even AFTER max upgrading.

Vivian Azure
Posted - 2009.11.09 01:45:00 - [2139]
 

Edited by: Vivian Azure on 09/11/2009 01:48:05
Edited by: Vivian Azure on 09/11/2009 01:47:14
Originally by: Quesa
Originally by: Vivian Azure

So far, you need 1 system to have PvE-content for 2 players. That includes belt-ratting and anomalies.

After the patch, you need one system to have PvE-content for 10 players, as the anomalies will instantly respawn after they're finished, and there'll be more of them aswell.

You may not find them anomalies worthwile, but that's your personal problem, if you allways ever compare ISK/h to LvL 4 missions.

If you're only looking for ISK, then go to empire and fly LvL 4 missions... it's that easy. Nobody forces you to strive out into 0.0.

Hey you, don't make comparisons to lvl4 missions.
BTW, go to Empire and run lvl4 missions to make ISK.
The hypocracy of people who don't know/live in 0.0 is immense.

Quote:
As I see it, 0.0 was never intended to have higher rewards then empire-mission-running, but approx the same. The only difference between 0.0 and empire is, that you can enforce your own rules in 0.0 shooting at everyone you don't like etc...
Right now you make more money running level 4's in safe space. If we keep gravitating towards risk vs. reward comparisons then my ability to make ISK should increase as my risk increases. Thus my isk in lawless space should be more than that of empire, you know, where rules prevent you from being destroyed 99.99999999% of the time?


Unfortunately I'm not allowed to post with my main in public forums. Just to get this out of the way for you.

And no, as I see it, your rewards in 0.0 shouldn't increase, as there's actually no personal risk at all in 0.0. I get informed about every neutral/hostile 10 systems ahead of time to get safe before they arrive in my system. Why is this anymore risk then in empire exactly?
And even if there's no warning ahead, then I've got plenty of timeto get safe as the neutral/hostile enters the system I'm ratting in.
This risk vs. reward thing only applies to corp/alliance assets like POSs or Outposts, but the moons and industrial backbone of my corp/alliance covers this allready.

I'm actually amused, that all the people in here are talking about this "risk vs reward" thing all the time, as I've never encountered a risky situation, if I've not actively searched for those situations by roaming around or joining a fleet-OP in the past 3 years living in 0.0.

Do away with local-chat, then there'll be some risk involved actually.

Quesa
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.11.09 01:50:00 - [2140]
 

Edited by: Quesa on 09/11/2009 02:00:47
Originally by: "Vivian Azure"
Unfortunately I'm not allowed to post with my main in public forums. Just to get this out of the way for you.
You might as well of told me you are a female and to "take your word for it". All that statement says is "no, I really don't have a or have ever had a 0.0 pilot but I'll say I do and put some silly "no posting on EveO forums ever" statement in there to make him think I am.

Quote:
And no, as I see it, your rewards in 0.0 shouldn't increase, as there's actually no personal risk at all in 0.0. I get informed about every neutral/hostile 10 systems ahead of time to get safe before they arrive in my system. Why is this anymore risk then in empire exactly?

If there is a chance of higher risk then it is higher risk. In empire, unless you stay in a war-dec'd corp, there is nothing short of a fleet of gank ships that can kill you.

There are instances that you can warp into a plex/anom/belt and be scrammed the instant someone else enters the system. The fact that you can 100% avoid this SINGLE example of increased risk in Empire proves there is more risk in 0.0.

Quote:
And even if there's no warning ahead, then I've got plenty of timeto get safe as the neutral/hostile enters the system I'm ratting in.
Just shows you don't have competant PvP'ers in your 0.0 holding alliance.

Quote:
This risk vs. reward thing only applies to corp/alliance assets like POSs or Outposts, but the moons and industrial backbone of my corp/alliance covers this allready.
Only in your narrow minded perception and faulty understanding of 0.0 alliances which further reinforces you have no idea what you are talking about. I take back my first paragraph, I wouldn't admit I was in a space holding alliance either.

Quote:
I'm actually amused, that all the people in here are talking about this "risk vs reward" thing all the time, as I've never encountered a risky situation, if I've not actively searched for those situations by roaming around or joining a fleet-OP in the past 3 years living in 0.0.
See above.

Quote:
Do away with local-chat, then there'll be some risk involved actually.
I would not be against a change in how local works if there are other changes made to the game first or concurrently.

Pointfive
Posted - 2009.11.09 01:55:00 - [2141]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure
Edited by: Vivian Azure on 09/11/2009 01:48:05
Edited by: Vivian Azure on 09/11/2009 01:47:14
Originally by: Quesa
Originally by: Vivian Azure

So far, you need 1 system to have PvE-content for 2 players. That includes belt-ratting and anomalies.

After the patch, you need one system to have PvE-content for 10 players, as the anomalies will instantly respawn after they're finished, and there'll be more of them aswell.

You may not find them anomalies worthwile, but that's your personal problem, if you allways ever compare ISK/h to LvL 4 missions.

If you're only looking for ISK, then go to empire and fly LvL 4 missions... it's that easy. Nobody forces you to strive out into 0.0.

Hey you, don't make comparisons to lvl4 missions.
BTW, go to Empire and run lvl4 missions to make ISK.
The hypocracy of people who don't know/live in 0.0 is immense.

Quote:
As I see it, 0.0 was never intended to have higher rewards then empire-mission-running, but approx the same. The only difference between 0.0 and empire is, that you can enforce your own rules in 0.0 shooting at everyone you don't like etc...
Right now you make more money running level 4's in safe space. If we keep gravitating towards risk vs. reward comparisons then my ability to make ISK should increase as my risk increases. Thus my isk in lawless space should be more than that of empire, you know, where rules prevent you from being destroyed 99.99999999% of the time?


Unfortunately I'm not allowed to post with my main in public forums. Just to get this out of the way for you.

And no, as I see it, your rewards in 0.0 shouldn't increase, as there's actually no personal risk at all in 0.0. I get informed about every neutral/hostile 10 systems ahead of time to get safe before they arrive in my system. Why is this anymore risk then in empire exactly?
And even if there's no warning ahead, then I've got plenty of timeto get safe as the neutral/hostile enters the system I'm ratting in.
This risk vs. reward thing only applies to corp/alliance assets like POSs or Outposts, but the moons and industrial backbone of my corp/alliance covers this allready.

I'm actually amused, that all the people in here are talking about this "risk vs reward" thing all the time, as I've never encountered a risky situation, if I've not actively searched for those situations by roaming around or joining a fleet-OP in the past 3 years living in 0.0.

Do away with local-chat, then there'll be some risk involved actually.


Can you mitigate risk in 0.0, sure of course you can. But to say there is no risk is just stupid. Yes if you perform perfectly, are always aligned, have super reliable intel channel fit cloaks, never get scrammed by rats, dont get caught on a gat camp, you wont die. But if you pull off all of things perfectly every time you decide to make money that takes a degree of skill. 0.0 requires both an increase in skill and and increase in risk. That should be rewarded.

Kayl Breinhar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.09 01:56:00 - [2142]
 

Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 09/11/2009 01:58:23
Originally by: Quesa
Hey you, don't make comparisons to lvl4 missions.
BTW, go to Empire and run lvl4 missions to make ISK.
The hypocracy of people who don't know/live in 0.0 is immense.

Vivian Azure of KLONKRIEGER:

Standings of Klonkrieger (two person corp):
Federation Navy 9.75
The Scope 9.55
Federal Intelligence Office 9.03
Roden Shipyards 8.13
+ more

L4s are something he seems to know well. *waits to have his own 9.xx Fed Navy standing from 2005 dragged out as proof of his 'hypocrisy'*

Misaki Yuuko
Caldari
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:02:00 - [2143]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure


Unfortunately I'm not allowed to post with my main in public forums. Just to get this out of the way for you.

And no, as I see it, your rewards in 0.0 shouldn't increase, as there's actually no personal risk at all in 0.0. I get informed about every neutral/hostile 10 systems ahead of time to get safe before they arrive in my system. Why is this anymore risk then in empire exactly?
And even if there's no warning ahead, then I've got plenty of timeto get safe as the neutral/hostile enters the system I'm ratting in.
This risk vs. reward thing only applies to corp/alliance assets like POSs or Outposts, but the moons and industrial backbone of my corp/alliance covers this allready.

I'm actually amused, that all the people in here are talking about this "risk vs reward" thing all the time, as I've never encountered a risky situation, if I've not actively searched for those situations by roaming around or joining a fleet-OP in the past 3 years living in 0.0.

Do away with local-chat, then there'll be some risk involved actually.


Why don't you fail moar about it? All these intel networks and crapp you are talking about, yes, they have to be done and managed by players. Players have to work for their own safity, but in empire you don't need to pay neither waste your time doing that.

Also, if an alliance will upgrade a handfull of systems, these are gonna be easilly disruptible by other players, an AFK cov-op can screw your anomalies respawning, you don't need to even fire a single gun. I think, too, you're one of these clueless guys who think mienral is free cause they mine theirshelves, because afterall all the time you spend cloaked in a safe because there are hostiles in the system is not valuable to you.

But hey, you can keep being dellusional about it, running missions which never run out of supply, with personal bookmarks, without having to pay attetion to any intel, and no oen being able to disrupt your activity 8except ninja-salvagers), it's totally balanced and fair.

Just gtfo.


Vivian Azure
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:03:00 - [2144]
 

Edited by: Vivian Azure on 09/11/2009 02:04:58
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar
Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 09/11/2009 01:58:23
Originally by: Quesa
Hey you, don't make comparisons to lvl4 missions.
BTW, go to Empire and run lvl4 missions to make ISK.
The hypocracy of people who don't know/live in 0.0 is immense.

Vivian Azure of KLONKRIEGER:

Standings of Klonkrieger (two person corp):
Federation Navy 9.75
The Scope 9.55
Federal Intelligence Office 9.03
Roden Shipyards 8.13
+ more

L4s are something he seems to know well. *waits to have his own 9.xx Fed Navy standing from 2005 dragged out as proof of his 'hypocrisy'*


Yes, I do know LvL 4 missions very well, like I know allmost every ****ing system in the north pretty well. And I even have an -10 alt, that knows nearly every ****ing low-sec-system from Everyshore to Lonetrek pretty well.

I don't play EvE for only one aspect of the game, I do enjoy all of the content... I've got enough time to do so and several accounts ofc Wink

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:09:00 - [2145]
 

Originally by: Korodan
There's a simple and quick way to cause mineral prices to rise - nerf compounds dropped by rouge drones. Nearly all of the game's minerals come from there now, with a trickle from refining.


Yes, because the way to fix 0.0 is to completely screw over eight regions of it. And no, drone compounds aren't a big part of the problem - they're maybe a quarter of minerals, tops. Disproportionately high in nocxium, and to a lesser extent zydrine, but they're not that huge a part of the market. What's far bigger is mission/ratting loot drops, the T1 stuff that always winds up in a refinery. I believe that more minerals are produced that way than from all mining combined.

Quesa
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:12:00 - [2146]
 

Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Korodan
There's a simple and quick way to cause mineral prices to rise - nerf compounds dropped by rouge drones. Nearly all of the game's minerals come from there now, with a trickle from refining.


Yes, because the way to fix 0.0 is to completely screw over eight regions of it. And no, drone compounds aren't a big part of the problem - they're maybe a quarter of minerals, tops. Disproportionately high in nocxium, and to a lesser extent zydrine, but they're not that huge a part of the market. What's far bigger is mission/ratting loot drops, the T1 stuff that always winds up in a refinery. I believe that more minerals are produced that way than from all mining combined.


You are completely undervaluing drone poop. It's extremely efficient, in terms of compression and extremely valuable for builders.

The problem with Drones is the reward from a drone is directly effected by the mineral market and takes exceedingly more time/logistics/effort to squeeze the isk out of it.

Vivian Azure
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:15:00 - [2147]
 

Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Korodan
There's a simple and quick way to cause mineral prices to rise - nerf compounds dropped by rouge drones. Nearly all of the game's minerals come from there now, with a trickle from refining.


Yes, because the way to fix 0.0 is to completely screw over eight regions of it. And no, drone compounds aren't a big part of the problem - they're maybe a quarter of minerals, tops. Disproportionately high in nocxium, and to a lesser extent zydrine, but they're not that huge a part of the market. What's far bigger is mission/ratting loot drops, the T1 stuff that always winds up in a refinery. I believe that more minerals are produced that way than from all mining combined.


If you tell me who's excited enough mining all those minerals needed that are currently coming from loot, then you could do away with all the crappy Tech 1 loot imho.
Unfortuantely there's not alot of people willing to sit in a mining-barge for several hours a day, for the current value of the minerals. But hey, I'd like to see mining-ops again like we had some 4 or 5 years back in time Laughing

gambrinous
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:17:00 - [2148]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure
If you strive for personal income, then it's your problem.

In 0.0 there should be 100% tax and the ally paying for all the assets you need to do the fighting for them. That's how it works for us... it's called communism, and it actually works in EvE.

2 bil a month is nothing, if you divide it between 10 players. That's a laughable 7 Million ISK per day per player.


Originally by: Vivian Azure
Learn to make ISK.

I spend some 1/10 of my time making enough ISK in EvE to fly around in Tech 2 cruisers the whole day and loose some 5 HACs a week.

Making 1 billion ISK a week is a piece of cake and can be done 90% AFK


So which one is it? All of your isk goes to alliance and it works? Or you make a bunch of personal isk because it doesn't work?

Patiently awaiting "both" as a reply.



please stop posting


Pointfive
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:18:00 - [2149]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Korodan
There's a simple and quick way to cause mineral prices to rise - nerf compounds dropped by rouge drones. Nearly all of the game's minerals come from there now, with a trickle from refining.


Yes, because the way to fix 0.0 is to completely screw over eight regions of it. And no, drone compounds aren't a big part of the problem - they're maybe a quarter of minerals, tops. Disproportionately high in nocxium, and to a lesser extent zydrine, but they're not that huge a part of the market. What's far bigger is mission/ratting loot drops, the T1 stuff that always winds up in a refinery. I believe that more minerals are produced that way than from all mining combined.


If you tell me who's excited enough mining all those minerals needed that are currently coming from loot, then you could do away with all the crappy Tech 1 loot imho.
Unfortuantely there's not alot of people willing to sit in a mining-barge for several hours a day, for the current value of the minerals. But hey, I'd like to see mining-ops again like we had some 4 or 5 years back in time Laughing



But but that would require there be an incentive in 0.0 for that to happen. 0.0 is fine and dosent need income boosted at all.

Dharh
Gallente
Ace Adventure Corp
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:19:00 - [2150]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Korodan
There's a simple and quick way to cause mineral prices to rise - nerf compounds dropped by rouge drones. Nearly all of the game's minerals come from there now, with a trickle from refining.


Yes, because the way to fix 0.0 is to completely screw over eight regions of it. And no, drone compounds aren't a big part of the problem - they're maybe a quarter of minerals, tops. Disproportionately high in nocxium, and to a lesser extent zydrine, but they're not that huge a part of the market. What's far bigger is mission/ratting loot drops, the T1 stuff that always winds up in a refinery. I believe that more minerals are produced that way than from all mining combined.


If you tell me who's excited enough mining all those minerals needed that are currently coming from loot, then you could do away with all the crappy Tech 1 loot imho.
Unfortuantely there's not alot of people willing to sit in a mining-barge for several hours a day, for the current value of the minerals. But hey, I'd like to see mining-ops again like we had some 4 or 5 years back in time Laughing


There are more than enough miners. If on the _off_ chance that there was a true lack of supply of minerals due to it being 'too boring' there are plenty of things that have been suggested over the years by players to add some more activity to mining.

Etrange Phi
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:19:00 - [2151]
 

Edited by: Etrange Phi on 09/11/2009 02:25:21
Edited by: Etrange Phi on 09/11/2009 02:22:59
Originally by: Vivian Azure
there's actually no personal risk at all in 0.0


On one hand it's admirable that you keep voicing your opinion against an overwhelming majority, on the other hand general statements such as the one quoted above deprives you of any credibility, if you ever had any.


Edit: spelign

Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:21:00 - [2152]
 

Originally by: Quesa
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Korodan
There's a simple and quick way to cause mineral prices to rise - nerf compounds dropped by rouge drones. Nearly all of the game's minerals come from there now, with a trickle from refining.


Yes, because the way to fix 0.0 is to completely screw over eight regions of it. And no, drone compounds aren't a big part of the problem - they're maybe a quarter of minerals, tops. Disproportionately high in nocxium, and to a lesser extent zydrine, but they're not that huge a part of the market. What's far bigger is mission/ratting loot drops, the T1 stuff that always winds up in a refinery. I believe that more minerals are produced that way than from all mining combined.


You are completely undervaluing drone poop. It's extremely efficient, in terms of compression and extremely valuable for builders.

The problem with Drones is the reward from a drone is directly effected by the mineral market and takes exceedingly more time/logistics/effort to squeeze the isk out of it.


The drone regions just feel like they were horribly planned out tbh. They seem tailor made for the pet/master relationship.

Vivian Azure
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:24:00 - [2153]
 

Edited by: Vivian Azure on 09/11/2009 02:25:37
Originally by: gambrinous
Originally by: Vivian Azure
If you strive for personal income, then it's your problem.

In 0.0 there should be 100% tax and the ally paying for all the assets you need to do the fighting for them. That's how it works for us... it's called communism, and it actually works in EvE.

2 bil a month is nothing, if you divide it between 10 players. That's a laughable 7 Million ISK per day per player.


Originally by: Vivian Azure
Learn to make ISK.

I spend some 1/10 of my time making enough ISK in EvE to fly around in Tech 2 cruisers the whole day and loose some 5 HACs a week.

Making 1 billion ISK a week is a piece of cake and can be done 90% AFK


So which one is it? All of your isk goes to alliance and it works? Or you make a bunch of personal isk because it doesn't work?

Patiently awaiting "both" as a reply.



please stop posting




1 account flying LvL 4 missions in empire, nearly AFK, 1 account doing the production and hauling in empire, 1 account active in 0.0.

So yes, I'm doing even more then those two things at the same time actually.

But I see we're not talking about the same level of dedication to the game and corp/alliance. If you've read another one of my posts, I was allready stating to be playing atleast 6 hours a day.

Will Hunter
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:29:00 - [2154]
 

Spam.Applebabe

Pointfive
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:29:00 - [2155]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure
Originally by: gambrinous
Originally by: Vivian Azure
If you strive for personal income, then it's your problem.

In 0.0 there should be 100% tax and the ally paying for all the assets you need to do the fighting for them. That's how it works for us... it's called communism, and it actually works in EvE.

2 bil a month is nothing, if you divide it between 10 players. That's a laughable 7 Million ISK per day per player.


Originally by: Vivian Azure
Learn to make ISK.

I spend some 1/10 of my time making enough ISK in EvE to fly around in Tech 2 cruisers the whole day and loose some 5 HACs a week.

Making 1 billion ISK a week is a piece of cake and can be done 90% AFK


So which one is it? All of your isk goes to alliance and it works? Or you make a bunch of personal isk because it doesn't work?

Patiently awaiting "both" as a reply.



please stop posting




1 account flying LvL 4 missions in empire, nearly AFK, 1 account doing the production and hauling in empire, 1 account active in 0.0.

So yes, I'm doing even more then those two things at the same time actually.

But I see we're not talking about the same level of dedication to the game and corp/alliance. If you've read another one of my posts, I was allready stating to be playing 6 hours a day.


So the majority of your income is from empire. What a shocker that you would not want nullsec rewards increased. Lets just drive everyone to make their isk afk in empire. No one will be able to have their income directly attacked, wars will be rare adn with nothing of value ever really gained. WE can all just be afk in empire instead of afk in 0.0. Im pretty sure your constant garbage posts are the only thing keeping your head from exploding with cognitive dissonance.

Quesa
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:30:00 - [2156]
 

Edited by: Quesa on 09/11/2009 02:30:47
Originally by: Korodan
Originally by: Quesa
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Korodan
There's a simple and quick way to cause mineral prices to rise - nerf compounds dropped by rouge drones. Nearly all of the game's minerals come from there now, with a trickle from refining.


Yes, because the way to fix 0.0 is to completely screw over eight regions of it. And no, drone compounds aren't a big part of the problem - they're maybe a quarter of minerals, tops. Disproportionately high in nocxium, and to a lesser extent zydrine, but they're not that huge a part of the market. What's far bigger is mission/ratting loot drops, the T1 stuff that always winds up in a refinery. I believe that more minerals are produced that way than from all mining combined.


You are completely undervaluing drone poop. It's extremely efficient, in terms of compression and extremely valuable for builders.

The problem with Drones is the reward from a drone is directly effected by the mineral market and takes exceedingly more time/logistics/effort to squeeze the isk out of it.


The drone regions just feel like they were horribly planned out tbh. They seem tailor made for the pet/master relationship.

Oh, I completely agree. In fact, I'd take it a step further and say the initial design of all 0.0 is horrible.

I was just commenting how the OP very much undervalued Drone Poop.

Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:33:00 - [2157]
 

Originally by: Will Hunter
Spam.Applebabe


Quoting for emphasis.

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:35:00 - [2158]
 

So, I'm still not comfortable with the fact that the claiming mechanism is largely based on ISK which, could be most efficiently generated by an army of macros running lvl4 missions in empire, or simply by selling PLEXs or other activities utterly unrelated to the space you're trying to hold.

I got to thinking, what does claiming sov really mean? Well it's about demonstrating control over some corner of space, one might imagine that without players doing their thing that NPC pirate rats would roam the belts uncontested, in some ways alliances are claiming sov from the pirates. So, why isn't that the primary driver for claiming Sov rather than simply qualifying for upgrades, whenever a kill happens in a system, whether it be a PVP or PVE kill the alliance making the kill gets some credit towards gaining or maintaining sov. You need to maintain some baseline to keep qualified for holding sov and without it your claims start to drop. But on top of this, kills by other alliances start to weaken your claim.

Of course... dream as i might it's probably too late to stop this current train wreck from driving everyone back to empire.

Vivian Azure
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:35:00 - [2159]
 

Edited by: Vivian Azure on 09/11/2009 02:40:28
Edited by: Vivian Azure on 09/11/2009 02:37:39
Originally by: Pointfive

So the majority of your income is from empire. What a shocker that you would not want nullsec rewards increased. Lets just drive everyone to make their isk afk in empire. No one will be able to have their income directly attacked, wars will be rare adn with nothing of value ever really gained. WE can all just be afk in empire instead of afk in 0.0. Im pretty sure your constant garbage posts are the only thing keeping your head from exploding with cognitive dissonance.


Nothing wrong with making alot of money in empire tbh.

I know people who make several billion ISK a week by just setting up buy- and sell-orders in Jita on an alt.

Originally by: Korodan
Originally by: Will Hunter
Spam.Applebabe


Quoting for emphasis.


Sorry I don't have to work for 8 hours a day anymore to make for a living Rolling Eyes Laughing

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2009.11.09 02:35:00 - [2160]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure
I was allready stating to be playing atleast 6 hours a day.


Originally by: Vivian Azure
playing atleast 6 hours a day.


Originally by: Vivian Azure
6 hours a day.


Must be nice not having a life.


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