open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Blog: Upgrading and Upkeep of Sovereign Solar Systems in Dominion
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 63 64 65 66 [67] 68 69 70 71 ... : last (119)

Author Topic

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:18:00 - [1981]
 

Originally by: Zemi Dahut
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Zemi Dahut

You really don't understand what the problem is here which is really not surprising. You should probably have stayed out of this thread since all you're doing is reminding everyone why you failed as a CSM.


Actually Dominion is looking like a pretty good success for my time on the CSM right now Cool



What, making 0.0 less accessible to small alliances and gangs? You're really this delusional?


You need to stop listening to the spam and consider the arguments. You have it directly backwards. Losing the landscape of cyno-jammers and omni-claims will make 0.0 much more accessible for small gang pvp.

As indeed will the increased need for standing alliances to earn money in actual space.


Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:19:00 - [1982]
 

Originally by: Zemi Dahut
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Zemi Dahut

You really don't understand what the problem is here which is really not surprising. You should probably have stayed out of this thread since all you're doing is reminding everyone why you failed as a CSM.


Actually Dominion is looking like a pretty good success for my time on the CSM right now Cool



What, making 0.0 less accessible to small alliances and gangs? You're really this delusional?


He is only posting here to get attention. Everyone knows he was a failure and a terrible CSM. The best bet is to just ignore him or talk around him. He gets mad pretty easily.

Hertford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:23:00 - [1983]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine

You need to stop listening to the spam and consider the arguments. You have it directly backwards. Losing the landscape of cyno-jammers and omni-claims will make 0.0 much more accessible for small gang pvp.

As indeed will the increased need for standing alliances to earn money in actual space.



You can't read.

Mkiaki
Gallente
Progressive Business Solutions
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:23:00 - [1984]
 

Edited by: Mkiaki on 08/11/2009 20:23:08
*sails on the tears*

Mrs Trzzbk
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:23:00 - [1985]
 

Edited by: Mrs Trzzbk on 08/11/2009 20:23:46
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Zemi Dahut
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Zemi Dahut

You really don't understand what the problem is here which is really not surprising. You should probably have stayed out of this thread since all you're doing is reminding everyone why you failed as a CSM.


Actually Dominion is looking like a pretty good success for my time on the CSM right now Cool



What, making 0.0 less accessible to small alliances and gangs? You're really this delusional?


You need to stop listening to the spam and consider the arguments. You have it directly backwards. Losing the landscape of cyno-jammers and omni-claims will make 0.0 much more accessible for small gang pvp.

As indeed will the increased need for standing alliances to earn money in actual space.




How will cramming an entire alliance into 1 constellation promote small gang warfare?

And how the **** do cyno jammers hurt small gang warfare?

Zemi Dahut
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:24:00 - [1986]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Zemi Dahut
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Zemi Dahut

You really don't understand what the problem is here which is really not surprising. You should probably have stayed out of this thread since all you're doing is reminding everyone why you failed as a CSM.


Actually Dominion is looking like a pretty good success for my time on the CSM right now Cool



What, making 0.0 less accessible to small alliances and gangs? You're really this delusional?


You need to stop listening to the spam and consider the arguments. You have it directly backwards. Losing the landscape of cyno-jammers and omni-claims will make 0.0 much more accessible for small gang pvp.

As indeed will the increased need for standing alliances to earn money in actual space.




Large alliances will still control space even if it doesn't show it on the map, they'll just deny other people's ability to live there, just like it was before Sov levels and cynojammers were introduced. This discussion here however is how the upgrades to make the space livable do little to actually accomplish that fact. So again, stay out of the thread as you have little clue of what's actually going on. You won't however as your need for attention outweighs all common sense and Lady Scarlet.

Freidrich Hayek
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:24:00 - [1987]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine

You need to stop listening to the spam and consider the arguments. You have it directly backwards. Losing the landscape of cyno-jammers and omni-claims will make 0.0 much more accessible for small gang pvp.

As indeed will the increased need for standing alliances to earn money in actual space.


Yes, those small gangs that are affected by cyno jammers. Because I know I hate when I can't cyno in my vagabond.

And small-gang PvP flourishes in the prime isk-generating center of... Motsu.

Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:25:00 - [1988]
 

Originally by: Hertford
Originally by: Jade Constantine

You need to stop listening to the spam and consider the arguments. You have it directly backwards. Losing the landscape of cyno-jammers and omni-claims will make 0.0 much more accessible for small gang pvp.

As indeed will the increased need for standing alliances to earn money in actual space.



You can't read.


How many literate "sex workers" have you ever met? Let's be honest.

Bobby Atlas
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:27:00 - [1989]
 

This thread lost most of its value at page 60, stop ****ting the place up - post something on topic and constructive or do not post at all.

Mkiaki
Gallente
Progressive Business Solutions
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:32:00 - [1990]
 

Dominion is a monopoly alliance nerf : you heard it here first Laughing

Future Mutant
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:32:00 - [1991]
 

Originally by: Bobby Atlas
This thread lost most of its value at page 60, stop ****ting the place up - post something on topic and constructive or do not post at all.


I nominate ^^ this guy^^ as our new forum ****.

Also lol at all the supposed "pvp'ers" crying about dominion.

"Our corp only makes billions off some moons per month! How do you expect us to pay to hold sov?"

Well heres an answer- recruit some isk makers and have them milk the place- then tax them- problem solved.

Move along ppl nothing to see here.

Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:33:00 - [1992]
 

Edited by: Qlanth on 08/11/2009 20:36:20
I, for one, am all for the scaling back of space and the increased cost of cyno jammers and jump bridgesm, and even the nerf of R64 moons. I am also certain that all of our in-game enemies and allies feel basically the same way.

Right now the problem is that these changes were supposed to come with an added benefit of the ability to make this consolidated, and more vulnerable space, a good home for your alliance. As in you will not want to leave it and if you do leave it your space is more vulnerable.

Except now that the space is worth even less than before. Extra cost plus no added benefits, and let me be clear these benefits are completely worthless under current mechanics, means less desire to be in 0.0 space.

I can see many of the current powerblocs moving to NPC 0.0 space because of this.

edit: And I see no new entities coming to 0.0 except possibly IT because there is less reason than ever to control sovereign space.

Hertford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:33:00 - [1993]
 

Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Bobby Atlas
This thread lost most of its value at page 60, stop ****ting the place up - post something on topic and constructive or do not post at all.


I nominate ^^ this guy^^ as our new forum ****.

Also lol at all the supposed "pvp'ers" crying about dominion.

"Our corp only makes billions off some moons per month! How do you expect us to pay to hold sov?"

Well heres an answer- recruit some isk makers and have them milk the place- then tax them- problem solved.

Move along ppl nothing to see here.


You're spot on, oh so spot on. We should get people to stop running missions in highsec and instead 'rat' in anomalies, for less ISK per hour and with a higher tax rate than NPC corps.

Thanks for solving all the problem brought up in this thread!

Enjoy the small gang PvP when there's 50+ people in each system!

Lucas Pantelis
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:34:00 - [1994]
 

Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Bobby Atlas
This thread lost most of its value at page 60, stop ****ting the place up - post something on topic and constructive or do not post at all.


I nominate ^^ this guy^^ as our new forum ****.

Also lol at all the supposed "pvp'ers" crying about dominion.

"Our corp only makes billions off some moons per month! How do you expect us to pay to hold sov?"

Well heres an answer- recruit some isk makers and have them milk the place- then tax them- problem solved.

Move along ppl nothing to see here.
Why will the isk makers move there to milk it if they earn less money there even ignoring having to pay rent?

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:36:00 - [1995]
 

It's a source of great amusement as to the number of posts in this thread that are from goonswarm/atlas. They're doing 90% of the whining.

In typical CCP style CCP has managed to come up with something completely unique and different, much to the complete dismay of most of the players involved.

The fact that maintaining sov requires pure ISK is a very interesting move by CCP. Sov is no longer able to be subsidized by macro ice miners (as you can do with POSes) and that sucking sound is CONCORD hoovering up the hundreds of billions of ISK that the alliances hold so dear.

Indeed, those who want to hold space will *really* want to hold it in the future.

One funny note is that once again we're chained to the hard limit of ISK/hour that is L4 missions in empire. Straight away everyone has compared how profitable 0.0 is vs. L4 highsec missions. I made note of this limit when addressing w-space and the cost of T3 ships due to the hard limit of L4 mission profitability but everyone told me to shut up. Now where are we? Right back at the same spot. L4 missions are once again providing a hard floor as to how much something should be worth in order to spend the effort doing it.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:37:00 - [1996]
 

Originally by: Freidrich Hayek


And small-gang PvP flourishes in the prime isk-generating center of... Motsu.


If Motsu was 0.0 it would be hog-heaven.

Dharh
Gallente
Ace Adventure Corp
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:39:00 - [1997]
 

Originally by: Hertford
Enjoy the small gang PvP when there's 50+ people in each system!


Did you just say that? I need to wash out my eyes to make sure.

Ivanna Nuke
Gallente
Holders Of The Cowbell
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:45:00 - [1998]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
It's a source of great amusement as to the number of posts in this thread that are from goonswarm/atlas. They're doing 90% of the whining.

In typical CCP style CCP has managed to come up with something completely unique and different, much to the complete dismay of most of the players involved.

The fact that maintaining sov requires pure ISK is a very interesting move by CCP. Sov is no longer able to be subsidized by macro ice miners (as you can do with POSes) and that sucking sound is CONCORD hoovering up the hundreds of billions of ISK that the alliances hold so dear.

Indeed, those who want to hold space will *really* want to hold it in the future.

One funny note is that once again we're chained to the hard limit of ISK/hour that is L4 missions in empire. Straight away everyone has compared how profitable 0.0 is vs. L4 highsec missions. I made note of this limit when addressing w-space and the cost of T3 ships due to the hard limit of L4 mission profitability but everyone told me to shut up. Now where are we? Right back at the same spot. L4 missions are once again providing a hard floor as to how much something should be worth in order to spend the effort doing it.


This really...

Blackjack Turner
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:51:00 - [1999]
 

Actually, from the dev blog information and the responses in here it appears that the initial goal for CCP is a major wipe of almost all 0.0 entities. Call it a reset.

I'm, sure that within 30-60 days after deployment, they'll "adjust" the costs as well as tweaking the upgrades to get everyone moving back out there.

Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:53:00 - [2000]
 

Edited by: Qlanth on 08/11/2009 20:58:23
Edited by: Qlanth on 08/11/2009 20:57:56
Edited by: Qlanth on 08/11/2009 20:53:43
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Freidrich Hayek


And small-gang PvP flourishes in the prime isk-generating center of... Motsu.


If Motsu was 0.0 it would be hog-heaven.



0.0 does have its own Motsu

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/G-ME2K/agents

And if the changes go through the way CCP has layed out the only thing in 0.0 worth fighting over will be access to NPC stations and systems like this one.

Gabriel Youngs
Caldari
The Lunatic Collective
Corcoran State
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:53:00 - [2001]
 

Wow, this threadnaught surpassed the four year old dead horse POS thread in three days!!

Hratli Smirks
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:55:00 - [2002]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.



Would like this answered because seriously, if 0.0 is supposed to be less profitable than 0.0 then there's no reason to try to live out here as opposed to hang out in Empire and NPC sov which end up having the most profitable resource general alliance membership have direct access to (level 4 Q20 agents)

((except for Blood Raider NPC space which doesn't have a Q20 L4 agent))

And if alliance members don't make money in their space then they don't spend time in their territory at which point there is no point sending a small gang through for ~good fights~ because there won't be anyone to shoot.

I mean I guess a small gang could drop those sov stealing gadgets but unless they did it in a valuable moon system (which are getting nerfed and thus less valuable) nobody would bother showing up.

If you did do it in a sov'd R64 moon system (predicated on R64 moons still being that much more valuable than anything else) then chances are it will have a cynojammer and jumpbridge upgrade and haha wow POS fights over moons in cynojammed/JB systems wooooooooooooo.

Honestly at this point I'm more excited about talk of moving to Syndicate or NPC Delve or Stain than I am about any of those sov improvements

Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
Discord.
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:56:00 - [2003]
 

Originally by: Layla
Originally by: Moore cyno
Don't know if anyone suggested this idea, as i have to admit i didn't read all 60 pages :-)

I both agree and disagree with the concern that the upkeep cost is too high. It will be too much to draw out smaller alliances, and large volumes of space will become unused. However, claiming space shouldn't be so cheap/easy that large alliances will just keep all their space and the rest claimed by small entities.

So, the goal is to bring out more people and smaller entities to 0.0, and force people to actively use the space. But as the grind needed to make that profitable is "a lot" it wont happen with the current numbers. Decreasing the cost too much wont open up any space as the existing alliances will just keep their space. Finding a compromise cost which achieves both goals, is in my opinion more or less impossible with the current mechanics.

Solution: Link activity index to upkeep cost.

Instead of just having a fixed large upkeep cost, forcing alliances to use much grinding time before any profit is seen, decrease upkeep if activity index is high. I.e. super high activity index over a month in an upkeep system, upkeep cost is decreased by 90% (or some other significant number), low activity index alliance pays the full cost. Probably should be some scaling to systems around claimed, such that ratting, mining, plexing will still improve activity index say by a factor 0.5 at neighbouring systems and so forth. Obviously passive income such as moon mining shouldn't decrease upkeep.

This will accomplish exactly what was intended. Unused space will be left, actively claimed and used systems can become profitable.



I like this idea. It would go a long way to resolving the concerns being expressed, imo


Simple and excellent idea.

Maybe double initial suggested costs in the devblog to create a baseline cost.

Then make the cost of actually holding sov be the baseline cost / highest economic development index (whether it be military, mining, whatever).

So a system with development 2 would be costs as in devblog. Highest development level of 4 would be half the cost, etc.

That way the costs for holding highly developed space would be reasonable, but, the unnecessary sprawl that is currently hurting the game would be spectacularly unsustainable.

To make the numbers work, the time it takes to increase development level would have to be lowered so there would not be a prohibitive cost while waiting for highly used systems to increase in development level: this is a good thing anyway; 100 days to reach development level 5 is a VERY strong disincentive to wars of conquest (sure, the other guy might have better space than yours, but, if it will take 100 days for it to get as good as your old space, probably not worth doing)

Dualshock
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:57:00 - [2004]
 

Originally by: Bobby Atlas
This thread lost most of its value at page 60, stop ****ting the place up - post something on topic and constructive or do not post at all.


you forgot to quote a jade post when you wrote this

Destrim
Koshaku
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:58:00 - [2005]
 

Originally by: Gabriel Youngs
Wow, this threadnaught surpassed the four year old dead horse POS thread in three days!!



You're wrong. It's only been two. :)

Kieselguhr Kid
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:58:00 - [2006]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
The fact that maintaining sov requires pure ISK is a very interesting move by CCP. Sov is no longer able to be subsidized by macro ice miners (as you can do with POSes) and that sucking sound is CONCORD hoovering up the hundreds of billions of ISK that the alliances hold so dear.


Why would we hold sov in any of Delve/Querious except the handful of JB systems we need for logistics? We're not going to, so the isk sink you're suggesting doesn't exist.

Quote:
Indeed, those who want to hold space will *really* want to hold it in the future.


Correct. We won't hold sov. We'll just shoot anyone who tries to move into the D/Q backwater areas. They won't be able to leave without getting past us, won't be able to import anything and won't be able to PvE without running into cloaked goons, but if they really want to hold sov and spend billions of isk on useless systems they could probably do it for a few weeks before we get bored and drop caps. Drunk and Stoned managed to sit in their one Delve system for 3 months *now* before anyone cared enough so you can expect much the same thing, except that Drunk and Stoned didn't pay CCP several billion isk for the privilege of upgrading their system before we took it back.

Quote:
One funny note is that once again we're chained to the hard limit of ISK/hour that is L4 missions in empire.


maybe CCP should address that limit instead of proposing that we spend 100b+ upgrading all of Delve to be slightly worse than highsec when we have several NPC L4 agents in the middle of our space as it is

and do tell how small gang pvp is going to flourish in G-TT with 100 GS and Rebellion crammed into it 24/7

Hertford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.08 21:02:00 - [2007]
 

Originally by: Mahke
100 days to reach development level 5 is a VERY strong disincentive to wars of conquest (sure, the other guy might have better space than yours, but, if it will take 100 days for it to get as good as your old space, probably not worth doing)


And this is yet another major flaw in the current Dominion proposals. Every invasion becomes Scorched Earth, with no capture capability.

Honest Smedley
Posted - 2009.11.08 21:02:00 - [2008]
 

Originally by: Itzena
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Are you talking simply in terms of isk/hr from combat PvE? How about 0.0 WH running compared to L4 mission running? How about trade/manufacturing opportunities in 0.0 compared to high sec? Perhaps individual moon mining / reacting now that POSes aren't required for SoV?

To answer the isk/hr question you pose:
For the average corporation member within an alliance? Not necessarily.
For contributing corporations within a successful alliance? Yes.
For a successful alliance as a whole? Yes.

Sharpen your question and you may get an answer. At the moment your just mission-runner baiting.

Kieselguhr Kid
Posted - 2009.11.08 21:04:00 - [2009]
 

Originally by: Honest Smedley
Originally by: Itzena
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.


To answer the isk/hr question you pose:
For the average corporation member within an alliance? Not necessarily.



if 0.0 should not be as profitable for the average corp member as highsec is, 0.0 is worthless.

Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.08 21:08:00 - [2010]
 

Originally by: Kieselguhr Kid
Originally by: Honest Smedley
Originally by: Itzena
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.


To answer the isk/hr question you pose:
For the average corporation member within an alliance? Not necessarily.



if 0.0 should not be as profitable for the average corp member as highsec is, 0.0 is worthless.


Yes, why even go? The entire point of Dominion was to attract hi-sec carebears out to 0.0 with the promise of more money for the individual.


Pages: first : previous : ... 63 64 65 66 [67] 68 69 70 71 ... : last (119)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only