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EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:33:00 - [1501]
 

Thread is about 100 pages short in the same time limit to be considered a threadnaught

Zahorite
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:33:00 - [1502]
 

Originally by: Vadinho
Originally by: Zahorite
Table for 300,000 subscribers soon to be 100,000 please.
Right sir. You have your choice of two seating areas. The tables next to the kitchen are free and can support several hundred guests who may never talk to or even see one another as they eat. We also have seating much further from the kitchen, and those tables can only support one or two people, are much more expensive, and everyone has to fight over the same basket of bread and glass of water.

Which will your party prefer?


How about one of each. I'll have some fun fighting everyone for the salad and bread, then I'll move to the cheaper tables for my steak dinner. Sadly it looks like everyone else is moving over to the cheaper tables also, do you think there will be any good fights in the next year?

Mrs Trzzbk
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:33:00 - [1503]
 

Originally by: Future Mutant
Do i know what npc means? It means your a moron you hypocrite.

Originally by: cok cola
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

THIS NEEDS ANSWERING CCP, WERE ALL ASKING, WERE ALL WAITING FOR A RESPONSE.


Also- everyone thats asked this question is a moron- every activity that makes isk can be done in nullsec for more isk per hour compared to highsec.


Awwwww, this post.

Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:33:00 - [1504]
 

Originally by: Future Mutant
Do i know what npc means? It means your a moron you hypocrite.

Originally by: cok cola
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

THIS NEEDS ANSWERING CCP, WERE ALL ASKING, WERE ALL WAITING FOR A RESPONSE.


Also- everyone thats asked this question is a moron- every activity that makes isk can be done in nullsec for more isk per hour compared to highsec.


You are completely wrong.

ep1k
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:36:00 - [1505]
 

Is there any alliance or corp that has seen this change and is now super excited to leave for 0.0? And what exactly makes any space worth fighting over now that's different before. With moons gone i see even less reason to fight over territory.

Oh.

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Destrim
Koshaku
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:38:00 - [1506]
 

Edited by: Destrim on 08/11/2009 01:53:27
Re-posting, because no one said anything :(

Well, personally, I think the heavy tax and necessity to use the systems does an excellent job at condensing empires, and opening 0.0 up to much more people. THAT I have no problem with... even the heavy tax.

What I DO have a problem with is this: the industrial/military upgrades are weaksauce. I say this because the upgrades, which are supposed to apply to an alliance's/corp's infrastructure, are not, in fact, doing much to help them achieve such ends.

In other words, you have succeeded in using punishment ("pain aversion") to reign-in the ballooning miss-usage of 0.0 space (which works perfectly), but you haven't created any rewards as incentive for holding only a few systems. Penalizing works, but it only goes so far: you have to make it much more worth while to dig-in and hold the few systems they put so much time into improving. So, the improvements must be worthwhile.

For me, I consider it the equivalent of creating an actual ****ing HOME in EVE. Not just some space you hold, so you can wave your e-peen, but somewhere that actually means something to you.

This is what I propose:

Industry upgrades: Something which...

  • Decreases build costs by x% per sov level

  • Decreases build times by x% per sov level

  • Decreases reaction times by x% per sov level

  • Increases moon stuff mined per unit of time by x% per sov level

  • Increases refine rate (going beyond 100%, so you actually get MORE from refining) by x% per sov level

  • Retain the "hidden belts per sov level" idea

  • Increase mining amount/speed by x% per sov level



Now, for military infrastructure, I find it somewhat of a serious misnomer to use that title, and then create things which only apply to RATING. Instead, why not have it actually do something for the sovereign's military?

This is key, since, with the serious condensation, and influx of smaller groups, you MUST make the new systems more defensible. I mean, think about it: you're encouraging all these people to go out and get space, but they will become little more than targets for roamers and those who hold no space. And much larger alliances. Since (with the current system) they would have to plex and scan continuously for upkeep, they become more vulnerable to small roaming gangs and cloakies than before... actually, even if they weren't doing it continually, they become vulnerable to being squished anyhoo since, as someone else already pointed out, there will be less forewarning.

So, for military bonuses, you must give advantages to the sovereign's military. The rating stuff? Meh, keep it if you want, but at least include some other things which actually applies to military infrastructure.

Some things which may work...

  • Increase shield HP by x% per sov level

  • Increase armor HP by x% per sov level

  • Increase shield/armor repair amount by x% per sov level

  • Increase falloff/optimal range, tracking, etc. by 3% per sov level

  • Increase ship speed/agility by x% per sov level

  • Decrease cap recharge by x% per sov level

  • Decrease capacitor repair cost by x% per sov level

  • etc



There! Now your home system, which, unlike before, you are dedicating so much time and investment towards, actually provides protection for the people inhabiting it. Maybe some of those, like ship agility/speed may extend for a limited range outside of your sov system, increasing per sov level... I dunno, just an idea I'm throwing around.

Again, you have to create sufficient reward incentive to draw people out there, not just condense it by penalizing those who don't use it.

Thoughts?

Oh, and to the poll going about: yes!

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:39:00 - [1507]
 

Originally by: Qlanth
Originally by: Future Mutant
Do i know what npc means? It means your a moron you hypocrite.

Originally by: cok cola
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

THIS NEEDS ANSWERING CCP, WERE ALL ASKING, WERE ALL WAITING FOR A RESPONSE.


Also- everyone thats asked this question is a moron- every activity that makes isk can be done in nullsec for more isk per hour compared to highsec.


You are completely wrong.

He forgot to mention how anytime anyone enters 0.0 they are mystically blown up even though no one is in local. That's why he has never come out here.

Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:39:00 - [1508]
 

Originally by: Zahorite
How about one of each. I'll have some fun fighting everyone for the salad and bread, then I'll move to the cheaper tables for my steak dinner. Sadly it looks like everyone else is moving over to the cheaper tables also, do you think there will be any good fights in the next year?
I'm afraid not, sir. People don't find the need to fight over the costly bread and water when the steaks by the kitchen are free.

Zahorite
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:39:00 - [1509]
 

Originally by: Elisean
Edited by: Elisean on 08/11/2009 01:30:53
Originally by: Marlona Sky
So if the proposed numbers on paying for 'xyz' upgrade or whatever are too high, what would be more on par??




The problem isn't the costs so much as the rewards.

In fact maybe they should double the upgrade and upkeep costs. Then double the rewards.

That would be amuch better situation. As then players would say, THAT"S TOO MUCH! and then think, what does all that give me? and then say "oh wow, that's a lot of isk! maybe we should pay it so we can move towards that future goal.



also why isn't ccp using the wardec model here? where the more systems you own the more it costs to own them?


Yes, brilliant. Let's pay a 1 billion starting fee and 2 billion a month for 20 anomalies instead of a 500m startup cost and 1 billion for 10 anomalies. That will fix everything.

That's like saying that 20 cotton balls is better than 10 cotton balls when you need to a kleenex to blow your nose.

Mrs Trzzbk
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:40:00 - [1510]
 

Edited by: Mrs Trzzbk on 08/11/2009 01:41:06
Originally by: Destrim


  • Decrease repair cost by x% per sov level




This is how you make it painfully obvious you don't actually live in 0.0.

Your ideas are actually kind of good though.

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:41:00 - [1511]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Lonewolfnight
The real point here is you have a static fee system to attempt to force a dynamic level. Take a look at tying your fee's to the activity level markers. The more activity in system the lower the cost for sovereignty. Then you can have large fee's for systems that are unused and driver alliance's to either utilize them or drop the sov.


Other people in the thread have touched on the principle of resource upgrades actually applying a discount to the upkeep bill. It is certainly intriguing and easy enough for us to do assuming that the base cost was adjusted sufficiently to make a discount worth it.

At that point, you would in the current model have not only the resources and income of 20 or so people but also a discount to the upkeep cost as well and would act as a bonus to actual system usage.

We shall explore this further :)


I have proposed this in Features and Ideas. It should not be tied to upgrades, but to activity level (I suppose an upgrade can be an indirect tie in). But as said there, linking upkeep cost to activity levels, makes it dynamic, punishes AFK Empires and rewards NRDS players like CVA by having activity in their systems from neutrals keeping the cost down. It also solves the difficulty of taxing players by alliances, since their contribution is directly related to the amount of activity without any administrative hassle.

Should be fairly easy to code too.

Elisean
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:43:00 - [1512]
 

Originally by: Mcon99
Originally by: Vadinho
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
excellent clarity of vision I must say!

It is true and something we said from outset that unbalanced alliances who are 95% PvP/Fleet and 5% industry will be most affected by this as we are reducing their dependency on passive point sources and introducing greater active resource density to allow for passive income to take over.

The alliances who will benefit most are those who have or aim to have balanced compositions of people with different playstyles or even act as enforcers or protectors of the space with multiple rental agreements if they wish and we will add tools as we call the treaty system to help facilitate that.


"YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running."


YES or NO is irrelevant - 100% irrelevant. It's a game play issue. Do you want to log in and solo missions in high sec, or PLAY and BUILD and be part of something larger than yourself? Lvl 4's are simply failed gameplay from any aspect. I'de love the day CCP elminated or nerfed them.






yes please, kill level 4 missions, remove them form highsec, and you the changes you currently have would be fine.

Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:43:00 - [1513]
 

Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Lonewolfnight
The real point here is you have a static fee system to attempt to force a dynamic level. Take a look at tying your fee's to the activity level markers. The more activity in system the lower the cost for sovereignty. Then you can have large fee's for systems that are unused and driver alliance's to either utilize them or drop the sov.


Other people in the thread have touched on the principle of resource upgrades actually applying a discount to the upkeep bill. It is certainly intriguing and easy enough for us to do assuming that the base cost was adjusted sufficiently to make a discount worth it.

At that point, you would in the current model have not only the resources and income of 20 or so people but also a discount to the upkeep cost as well and would act as a bonus to actual system usage.

We shall explore this further :)


I have proposed this in Features and Ideas. It should not be tied to upgrades, but to activity level (I suppose an upgrade can be an indirect tie in). But as said there, linking upkeep cost to activity levels, makes it dynamic, punishes AFK Empires and rewards NRDS players like CVA by having activity in their systems from neutrals keeping the cost down. It also solves the difficulty of taxing players by alliances, since their contribution is directly related to the amount of activity without any administrative hassle.

Should be fairly easy to code too.


Do this and make an upgrade that enhances the payout of the rats and suddenly it doesn't suck so bad.

Vivian Azure
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:44:00 - [1514]
 

Originally by: ep1k
Is there any alliance or corp that has seen this change and is now super excited to leave for 0.0? And what exactly makes any space worth fighting over now that's different before. With moons gone i see even less reason to fight over territory.



This is a problem with most players in EvE. Why should you do something, if you don't gain any rewards by doing so.

Why do we fly around roaming at all you might ask yourself...

Zahorite
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:45:00 - [1515]
 

Originally by: Vadinho
Originally by: Zahorite
How about one of each. I'll have some fun fighting everyone for the salad and bread, then I'll move to the cheaper tables for my steak dinner. Sadly it looks like everyone else is moving over to the cheaper tables also, do you think there will be any good fights in the next year?
I'm afraid not, sir. People don't find the need to fight over the costly bread and water when the steaks by the kitchen are free.


Well is there anyway that you could say serve steak dinners at the more expensive tables that are further away from the kitchen also? Also do you think we would see some good fights then?

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:45:00 - [1516]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure
Originally by: ep1k
Is there any alliance or corp that has seen this change and is now super excited to leave for 0.0? And what exactly makes any space worth fighting over now that's different before. With moons gone i see even less reason to fight over territory.



This is a problem with most players in EvE. Why should you do something, if you don't gain any rewards by doing so.

Why do we fly around roaming at all you might ask yourself...

This isnt a philosophy discussion. It's a game mechanic discussion. GAME.

Jordan Musgrat
Convergent
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:45:00 - [1517]
 

Edited by: Jordan Musgrat on 08/11/2009 01:49:52
First, you've got to realize CCP, we're not idiots here, and we're not giving you baseless arguments. We're very clearly basing our arguments out of our personal experience, which is something that you seem to lack, when it comes to the way this game is played. And don't pretend like you know it all, or that your "vision" is perfect. Remember Exodus? Ya, now while you're doing well to reduce the costs of holding systems, the question of risk v reward is another question you need to ask yourself.

As it stands, too many people are in empire already, and you've acknowledged this by posting youtube videos saying "Dominion will push more people into 0.0." Right now, there's no incentive for people to move to 0.0. Quite to the contrary, it looks like even more people may want to do lvl 4 missions in Motsu, rather than be bothered with having to pay system upkeep in addition to making personal isk, and in all probablility for most alliances, with less space to boot.

So if you really want to push people into 0.0, make it MORE profitable than Motsu, not less. And yes, because only the very highest tier anomalies give equal-to-Motsu isk, and also because you will not get the very highest tier anomalies all the time, 90% of the people in 0.0 will be making less isk than the average CNR farmer in Motsu. And then, we need to factor in risk, because you will lose ships in 0.0, whereas you will not in Motsu.

Face it, Motsu will be more attractive in Dominion. You might intend to fix this sometime after Dominion, but intending to break things then fix them later is a bad idea, because people will become entrenched in the whole lvl 4 isk making scheme. You know this, I know you do. Right now, it's going to be hard enough to convince lvl 4 farmers to move to 0.0, even if you were to make 0.0 isk making more profitable.

So let's come to an agreement, that you need further changes to make 0.0 isk making more lucrative. I'd suggest this, and it's very simply. Give us a 100% increase on the bounties on all anomaly rats. Simply make top tier anomalies make twice as much isk as you can make in Motsu, and the 5-7 tier ones, the ones which you can do solo, have them be the equivalent of lvl 4 missions.

Now, you have a reason to move from Motsu to 0.0. You'll lose a few ships sure, but you'll make twice the isk!!!. And small entities will have a great incentive to take a very small amount of space and concentrate lots of isk makers into small areas. Which is great for 0.0 in general.

I don't expect that you've read this far, which is fine. If you're not going to listen to me, I hope you just fix this patch somehow.

TLDR; Give anomaly rats 2x the bounties as they currently have. Then, each tier needs to spawn an additional 5 anomalies. That way, after (only lol) 100 days, we can put 30+ people into a system.

P.S. With lots of anomalies, you'll have problems with people probing out tons of them, only to find people in them already, so giving us the option to see if anyone is in there would help alot. We don't need to know who, or how many, but we need to know if player(s) are in the anomalies or not.

Innominate
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:47:00 - [1518]
 

Edited by: Innominate on 08/11/2009 01:48:01
Originally by: Destrim

For me, I consider it the equivalent of creating an actual ****ing HOME in EVE. Not just some space you hold, so you can wave your e-peen, but somewhere that actually means something to you.



The rest of your post is mediocre, but this part is I think actually important. It goes back to the question that won't stop being repeated.
Quote:
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.


It also reminds me of our war fighting smash/roadkill in geminate. They folded in nearly record time, and were never able to put together a meaningful resistance. Why? Because almost all of them actually lived in empire, their space was used for little more than being on the map. They made their money running L4 missions because geminate is such godawful space. We had trouble giving it away.

If you want people to make a home in 0.0, it has to be financially worth it.

Inferno Styx
Caldari
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:49:00 - [1519]
 

Ok I thought I would try and make some changes that imo actually are worth the ISK to get them. Most of them are derived from other posts in this thread and I thought they would be easier to argue if combined together.

Pirate Magnet

When installed automatic 50% reduction in spawn time and bounties are increased 15%. Each level gives an additional 3% bounty increase.

Ore Processing Array

1 Hidden belt per level instant respawn when mined out. Belts are on the same level as an Average W-space deposit. Belts will also spawn rats and receive benefits of Pirate magnet.

Entrapment

10% increased chance of DED Complex per level. Installing upgrade limits complexes to >8/10. Complexes Respawn instantly.

Survey Network

Scan strength increase of 5% per level for all probes in system. This upgrade allows advanced scanning techiques that allow Cloaks to be scanned through, Sig of .05 per level for all ships with cloak active.

Quantum Flux Generator

5% Increase in chances of Wormhole leading to W-Space spawning in system. Also gives all Wormholes a 2.5% increase to Mass limits and Life Cycle per level.

These are off the top of my head if you don't like them flame away just trying to give some help.

ElvenLord
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:52:00 - [1520]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure
This is a problem with most players in EvE. Why should you do something, if you don't gain any rewards by doing so.

Why do we fly around roaming at all you might ask yourself...


You might find your answer here

Originally by:
A game is a structured activity, usually undertaken for enjoyment and sometimes used as an educational tool. Games are distinct from work.

Destrim
Koshaku
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:52:00 - [1521]
 

Originally by: Mrs Trzzbk
Edited by: Mrs Trzzbk on 08/11/2009 01:41:06
Originally by: Destrim


  • Decrease repair cost by x% per sov level




This is how you make it painfully obvious you don't actually live in 0.0.

Your ideas are actually kind of good though.


I didn't mean the in-station repair cost. I was referring to the cost in capacitor...

My fault, poorly worded. I'll fix it.

Peryner
University of Caille
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:54:00 - [1522]
 

Originally by: Zahorite
Originally by: Elisean
Edited by: Elisean on 08/11/2009 01:30:53
Originally by: Marlona Sky
So if the proposed numbers on paying for 'xyz' upgrade or whatever are too high, what would be more on par??




The problem isn't the costs so much as the rewards.

In fact maybe they should double the upgrade and upkeep costs. Then double the rewards.

That would be amuch better situation. As then players would say, THAT"S TOO MUCH! and then think, what does all that give me? and then say "oh wow, that's a lot of isk! maybe we should pay it so we can move towards that future goal.



also why isn't ccp using the wardec model here? where the more systems you own the more it costs to own them?


Yes, brilliant. Let's pay a 1 billion starting fee and 2 billion a month for 20 anomalies instead of a 500m startup cost and 1 billion for 10 anomalies. That will fix everything.

That's like saying that 20 cotton balls is better than 10 cotton balls when you need to a kleenex to blow your nose.


not my nose, 20 players noses.
I need 10 more cotton balls so that 10 more people can blow thier noses.
this is a muliplayer game, not solo.

also my point was that those 20 cotton balls would also all be twice as big.

you should think of it as steak instead. right now I've got 10 1lb steaks. Now I don't need 20 2 lb steaks just to feed myself, but it would help to feed 20 people. and we'll all be more full.






another point on level 4 income
When a system is lost, you lose all of the upgrades right? That kinda sounds like drones to me. it would be like it they nerfed drones, ignoring the fact that can be shot down.

Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:56:00 - [1523]
 

Originally by: Inferno Styx
Ok I thought I would try and make some changes that imo actually are worth the ISK to get them. Most of them are derived from other posts in this thread and I thought they would be easier to argue if combined together.

Pirate Magnet

When installed automatic 50% reduction in spawn time and bounties are increased 15%. Each level gives an additional 3% bounty increase.

Ore Processing Array

1 Hidden belt per level instant respawn when mined out. Belts are on the same level as an Average W-space deposit. Belts will also spawn rats and receive benefits of Pirate magnet.

Entrapment

10% increased chance of DED Complex per level. Installing upgrade limits complexes to >8/10. Complexes Respawn instantly.

Survey Network

Scan strength increase of 5% per level for all probes in system. This upgrade allows advanced scanning techiques that allow Cloaks to be scanned through, Sig of .05 per level for all ships with cloak active.

Quantum Flux Generator

5% Increase in chances of Wormhole leading to W-Space spawning in system. Also gives all Wormholes a 2.5% increase to Mass limits and Life Cycle per level.

These are off the top of my head if you don't like them flame away just trying to give some help.



Honestly, most of this post isn't too bad, as long as the rocks in the grav site are really awesome (we're talking massive ABC rocks), though the Entrapment upgrade is still bad - within a month the market for the stuff will be flooded and it'll be worthless. Should also boost the bounty bonus (because the alliance running the upgrade should be able to tax it while the ratter still sees an increase in bounty value and they won't rat if the rats seem less valuable then normal, even if they respawn more often.)

Nika Dekaia
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:56:00 - [1524]
 

I wonder if the goon percentage in this thread refelcts the goon population on the server or simply the goon threadnaughtability.

Zahorite
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:56:00 - [1525]
 

Originally by: Inferno Styx
Ok I thought I would try and make some changes that imo actually are worth the ISK to get them. Most of them are derived from other posts in this thread and I thought they would be easier to argue if combined together.

Pirate Magnet

When installed automatic 50% reduction in spawn time and bounties are increased 15%. Each level gives an additional 3% bounty increase.

Ore Processing Array

1 Hidden belt per level instant respawn when mined out. Belts are on the same level as an Average W-space deposit. Belts will also spawn rats and receive benefits of Pirate magnet.

Entrapment

10% increased chance of DED Complex per level. Installing upgrade limits complexes to >8/10. Complexes Respawn instantly.

Survey Network

Scan strength increase of 5% per level for all probes in system. This upgrade allows advanced scanning techiques that allow Cloaks to be scanned through, Sig of .05 per level for all ships with cloak active.

Quantum Flux Generator

5% Increase in chances of Wormhole leading to W-Space spawning in system. Also gives all Wormholes a 2.5% increase to Mass limits and Life Cycle per level.

These are off the top of my head if you don't like them flame away just trying to give some help.



I like the survey network. In fact just putting that in place would instantly improve my rating of Dominion by one and a half thumbs out of five. Increase in bounty is great, but it should be 10% per a level and max out at 50%. Ore one shouldn't spawn rats and the W space belts is to good, reduce it to a -1.0 truesec hidden belt and make it respawn automatically when mined out. Make Entrapment respawn instantly but don't do anything else, just gaurantee 1 in a system and make it a lvl 5 upgrade, that way the modules don't go down in price to much on the market, I'd think they will go down to half the price but the demand and supply will go up 4-10 fold. Remember those market curves aren't straight they are curved, that is why they are called demand and supply curves not lines.

Mrs Trzzbk
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:57:00 - [1526]
 

Originally by: Destrim
Originally by: Mrs Trzzbk
Edited by: Mrs Trzzbk on 08/11/2009 01:41:06
Originally by: Destrim


  • Decrease repair cost by x% per sov level




This is how you make it painfully obvious you don't actually live in 0.0.

Your ideas are actually kind of good though.


I didn't mean the in-station repair cost. I was referring to the cost in capacitor...

My fault, poorly worded. I'll fix it.


MY BURN, SHE IS RUINED :(

Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:57:00 - [1527]
 

Edited by: Vadinho on 08/11/2009 01:58:41
Originally by: Zahorite
Well is there anyway that you could say serve steak dinners at the more expensive tables that are further away from the kitchen also? Also do you think we would see some good fights then?
We would serve the steaks to the expensive tables, but you see, the original waiters who worked this establishment years ago have all left and none of the new staff know how to get the steaks from the kitchen to the further tables. And, if I may be candid, sir, none of them seem to have any desire to find out how. Instead of learning the layout of the floor, many would rather just throw more stale rolls towards the further tables, leaving the guests to search under the tables for their meals. So often a guest ducks under the tablecloth to find a roll, only to find another guest with his teeth already firm into the crust.

Even if we could get the steaks to the expensive, isolated tables, I'm afraid many guests still wouldn't find them worth fighting over so long as they were still freely available by the kitchen.

I know the advert we sent out in Healthy Living Digest showed guests at the expensive tables gouging eyes with forks and burying their teeth into the arms of those reaching for their banquets, but I suppose there is something to be said for the embellishment of advertising, isn't there?

Destrim
Koshaku
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:59:00 - [1528]
 

Originally by: Innominate
Edited by: Innominate on 08/11/2009 01:48:01
Originally by: Destrim

For me, I consider it the equivalent of creating an actual ****ing HOME in EVE. Not just some space you hold, so you can wave your e-peen, but somewhere that actually means something to you.



The rest of your post is mediocre, but this part is I think actually important. It goes back to the question that won't stop being repeated.
Quote:
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.


It also reminds me of our war fighting smash/roadkill in geminate. They folded in nearly record time, and were never able to put together a meaningful resistance. Why? Because almost all of them actually lived in empire, their space was used for little more than being on the map. They made their money running L4 missions because geminate is such godawful space. We had trouble giving it away.

If you want people to make a home in 0.0, it has to be financially worth it.


Well, the ideas I showed there were just suggestions. My point was that the infrastructure upgrades proposed suck (they offer very little in the way of reward).

More than that, the proposed infrastructure upgrades actually do nothing for "infrastructure."

What suggestions would you have for actual infrastructure upgrades? That's something which I believe should be the focus of discussion. Not the costs, nor complaints of how lackluster the rewards are, but what WE THE PLAYERS actually want for reward value on having invested time into a system.

Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.08 01:59:00 - [1529]
 

Originally by: Inferno Styx
Ok I thought I would try and make some changes that imo actually are worth the ISK to get them. Most of them are derived from other posts in this thread and I thought they would be easier to argue if combined together.

Pirate Magnet

When installed automatic 50% reduction in spawn time and bounties are increased 15%. Each level gives an additional 3% bounty increase.

Ore Processing Array

1 Hidden belt per level instant respawn when mined out. Belts are on the same level as an Average W-space deposit. Belts will also spawn rats and receive benefits of Pirate magnet.

Entrapment

10% increased chance of DED Complex per level. Installing upgrade limits complexes to >8/10. Complexes Respawn instantly.

Survey Network

Scan strength increase of 5% per level for all probes in system. This upgrade allows advanced scanning techiques that allow Cloaks to be scanned through, Sig of .05 per level for all ships with cloak active.

Quantum Flux Generator

5% Increase in chances of Wormhole leading to W-Space spawning in system. Also gives all Wormholes a 2.5% increase to Mass limits and Life Cycle per level.

These are off the top of my head if you don't like them flame away just trying to give some help.




It's decent, the problem at least in my eyes is the pirate magnet. If you want 50-100 people per system, you need to have something like encounters. The problem is that in their current incarnation, encounters are useless. They need to have belt rats, they need to be instanced for the person doing them so you don't have 5-6 people warping to the same one, and they need to actually be challenging (ie take groups of people). Basically, level 3 to 5+ missions only without LPs and better isk bounties, plus a chance of a faction or officer.

Then you'll have 50-100 happy people per system.


Vivian Azure
Posted - 2009.11.08 02:01:00 - [1530]
 

Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang
Originally by: Inferno Styx
Ok I thought I would try and make some changes that imo actually are worth the ISK to get them. Most of them are derived from other posts in this thread and I thought they would be easier to argue if combined together.

Pirate Magnet

When installed automatic 50% reduction in spawn time and bounties are increased 15%. Each level gives an additional 3% bounty increase.

Ore Processing Array

1 Hidden belt per level instant respawn when mined out. Belts are on the same level as an Average W-space deposit. Belts will also spawn rats and receive benefits of Pirate magnet.

Entrapment

10% increased chance of DED Complex per level. Installing upgrade limits complexes to >8/10. Complexes Respawn instantly.

Survey Network

Scan strength increase of 5% per level for all probes in system. This upgrade allows advanced scanning techiques that allow Cloaks to be scanned through, Sig of .05 per level for all ships with cloak active.

Quantum Flux Generator

5% Increase in chances of Wormhole leading to W-Space spawning in system. Also gives all Wormholes a 2.5% increase to Mass limits and Life Cycle per level.

These are off the top of my head if you don't like them flame away just trying to give some help.




It's decent, the problem at least in my eyes is the pirate magnet. If you want 50-100 people per system, you need to have something like encounters. The problem is that in their current incarnation, encounters are useless. They need to have belt rats, they need to be instanced for the person doing them so you don't have 5-6 people warping to the same one, and they need to actually be challenging (ie take groups of people). Basically, level 3 to 5+ missions only without LPs and better isk bounties, plus a chance of a faction or officer.

Then you'll have 50-100 happy people per system.




Instanced... lol... go play WoW!


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