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Sally Bestonge
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:29:00 - [1411]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure
Yeah, keep believing in nerds living in their parents basement...

I used to work 14-16 hours a day to get to the point, where it's enough to only work some 4 hours a day. So yes, I've got plenty of time for EvE, while having time for everything else you do, but I'm not 20 anymore... far from that.

being as insufferable as you are I am not in the least bit sorry that your life cycle consists of work, eat, EVE, sleep; rinse, repeat.

Mcon99
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:30:00 - [1412]
 


Actually don't know why it took me so long to think of this.

CCP - Level 1 and 2 missions in high sec. Level 3's in low only. Level 4's in 0.0 only.

Game play leveled.


EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:30:00 - [1413]
 

Originally by: Mcon99

Actually don't know why it took me so long to think of this.

CCP - Level 1 and 2 missions in high sec. Level 3's in low only. Level 4's in 0.0 only.

Game play leveled.



There is literally no way this will ever happen.

Tanuki Doyle
Spontane0us Combustion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:31:00 - [1414]
 

Originally by: Dante Edmundo
Originally by: Tanuki Doyle
Am i the only person in the universe that is crying because CCP failed to go crazy and add something "new" to 0.0 to make it a more interesting place to live rather than just because of some tedious tweeking of risk/reward ratios?


You know I've been thinking the same thing after reading through all 1000 posts of this forum. Almost no complaining that actually nothing really that new has been added to 0.0 other than increasing activities for what is already there - and these activities in general are grinds such as mining, ratting, anomalies which are to pay for the new upkeep costs.

It doesn't seem that imaginative to me ... I was hoping for something more interesting - like new types of structures you could build maybe on asteroids - or new structures around planets, or even something really more space like with an upgrade - like the comets they were talking about.

I dunno - just tweaking the numbers in what appears to be a very poor manner seems to have 1) created a huge negative response to the player base 2) not address the potential of staleness that can be fatal for many computer games

What is really oddly missing with the new 0.0 Sov expansion is very little of it has to do with PvP, which IMO is the heart of 0.0 play. Go figure.





Yeah thats pretty much my point. Such as wated opportunity interms of what the upgrades could have been. Nvm. At least JG evolution is around the corner. Maybe when they have some decent competition CCP might make a bigger effort to innovate.

Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:32:00 - [1415]
 

Originally by: Mcon99

Actually don't know why it took me so long to think of this.

CCP - Level 1 and 2 missions in high sec. Level 3's in low only. Level 4's in 0.0 only.

Game play leveled.


sorry Mcon99 that makes too much sense for ccp to consider, and it might make them fix the agent code instead of adding more **** no one will ever use :ohdear:

Pringlescan
GoonFleet
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:33:00 - [1416]
 

Seriously add a 10% bounty to rats per tier with the rat magnet, otherwise nothing in 0.0 will change and it will just be the same alliances in the same powerblocks.

Dualshock
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:33:00 - [1417]
 

Originally by: Slobodanka

You get two anomalies guaranteed!!! Two!! At all times!!!


i like dis guy

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:34:00 - [1418]
 

Originally by: Xtreem

what i would do as an evil person is i would get my large alliance to get 30 alts of players into a corp, sit a few in each system in stealth bombers, in my reds main isk making systems and just totally ruin their isk making power, afk most of the day, pop back gank some stuff (say 3 per system, all launching a bomb would hurt alot when followed with seige) and can hide again pretty quick, would wreck allaince isk making and thus hurt there system holding.



YOu could just scan down some anomalies and sit in them cloaked, then even if the system owners do come and kill all the rats you can stop it from respawning by staying in the site, do that for a few anomalies and you can effectvely shut down those 'as good as Lvl4 Missions'

Ecky X
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:37:00 - [1419]
 

Originally by: cok cola
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

DasNara Aethelwulf
Blackwater Syndicate
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:39:00 - [1420]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure
I spend some 1/10 of my time making enough ISK in EvE to fly around in Tech 2 cruisers the whole day and loose some 5 HACs a week.



Let me get this right? you loose 80-130 mil per business day in hac's alone plus mods, rigs, and if you're flying in 0.0 probably implants too. Who is your main? I'd like to pay you a visit. How does your CEO let you stay? your corp's killboard must be horrible! Oh wait, you are the CEO huh? every post you just made on this thread is now bogus....or you epicly fail.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:39:00 - [1421]
 

You mean players will have to decide if it worth it to claim space and upgrade it based on income and logistics?

The audacity of CCP!!!


Etrange Phi
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:39:00 - [1422]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Salsbury
Y'know, I have to admit that watching all this smack-talk about CCP from the people who don't like the changes is pretty funny. Epic pwnage by CCP! Very Happy

It seems to me that the whole intent of CCP was to stir things up, reduce unused system sprawl, and make alliances really consider whether a system will be profitable to keep around. In this regard, I think they've already succeeded admirably.

In the 100+ posts I've read on this thread, one striking deficiency that I've noticed is the lack of almost any mention of cooperation, banding together, and INCREASING alliance inter-operation. This is, in fact, core to the design of what CCP is trying to accomplish. Getting more people out to 0.0, building new relationships between corps, encouraging renting out of sub-systems in alliance space, etc.

I've seen lots of people saying "small alliances won't be able to survive!" Well, start banding together with other smaller alliances, and become larger.

I've seen LOTS AND LOTS of funny PvP'ers whining that they simply won't be able to shoot enough stuff to pay the bills, while at the same time saying "mining is a **** profession" and the like. Well, it's time for you to learn how to cooperate with other players. You need to start getting some mining & industry going in your systems, to leverage those belts, rather than simply ignoring them, or ratting, then flying away. (You might even want to train some new skills, so you can produce some wealth in ways other than simply shooting stuff. You might be surprised.)

If it helps you to reframe the idea of cooperation, think of it as different strategic wings of a fleet. You've got some who are doing PvE ratting, protecting those who are helping to harvest those rocks and provide you with resources to build with/sell. You need to balance your skills & strengths to achieve the larger objective. One person can't do it all. That's the whole point of having fleets, corps, and alliances.

Think bigger than what you can do alone. Think about what you can accomplish together.




excellent clarity of vision I must say!

It is true and something we said from outset that unbalanced alliances who are 95% PvP/Fleet and 5% industry will be most affected by this as we are reducing their dependency on passive point sources and introducing greater active resource density to allow for passive income to take over.

The alliances who will benefit most are those who have or aim to have balanced compositions of people with different playstyles or even act as enforcers or protectors of the space with multiple rental agreements if they wish and we will add tools as we call the treaty system to help facilitate that.



With loads of posts asking good and serious questions you chose to answer THIS one? "Yeah, you lick my balls, excellent clarity of vision!" It just tells me your heads are up your asses and any attempt for serious discussion is futile.

Also:

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

pi squad
Scalding Pie Services
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:39:00 - [1423]
 

Originally by: DasNara Aethelwulf
Originally by: Vivian Azure
I spend some 1/10 of my time making enough ISK in EvE to fly around in Tech 2 cruisers the whole day and loose some 5 HACs a week.



Let me get this right? you loose 80-130 mil per business day in hac's alone plus mods, rigs, and if you're flying in 0.0 probably implants too. Who is your main? I'd like to pay you a visit. How does your CEO let you stay? your corp's killboard must be horrible! Oh wait, you are the CEO huh? every post you just made on this thread is now bogus....or you epicly fail.



k/d ratios are so important

Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:42:00 - [1424]
 

Originally by: Sally Bestonge
Originally by: Vivian Azure
Yeah, keep believing in nerds living in their parents basement...

I used to work 14-16 hours a day to get to the point, where it's enough to only work some 4 hours a day. So yes, I've got plenty of time for EvE, while having time for everything else you do, but I'm not 20 anymore... far from that.

being as insufferable as you are I am not in the least bit sorry that your life cycle consists of work, eat, EVE, sleep; rinse, repeat.


The way this guy acts, I don't think rinsing is involved at all.

Also...

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Scribone
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:42:00 - [1425]
 

If you want more people move into 0.0, the best way to do it is to let the system owner (corporation or alliance) to tax people for the activites done in there. It will work like a normal corporation tax, but it should have the highest level.

Also the system tax should be substracted from the corp tax, if the corp tax is higher since we don't want anyone to be killed by taxes :P

EX: if the corp tax is 20% and system tax is 10%, first is payed the system tax of 10% and after that the 10% to the corporation (20% max = 10 + 10). If the corporation tax is lower than system tax then you pay nothing to the corp.

Now, every corporation will want to hold and develop a system for the alliance and welcome anyone to rat or do other activities in there since they can actually tax everybody, like a normal country in RL.

Also more people in that system -> more PVP opportunities.

Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:43:00 - [1426]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
You mean players will have to decide if it worth it to claim space and upgrade it based on income and logistics?

The audacity of CCP!!!


they wont have to decide - it just isnt

Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:44:00 - [1427]
 

Originally by: pi squad
Originally by: DasNara Aethelwulf
Originally by: Vivian Azure
I spend some 1/10 of my time making enough ISK in EvE to fly around in Tech 2 cruisers the whole day and loose some 5 HACs a week.



Let me get this right? you loose 80-130 mil per business day in hac's alone plus mods, rigs, and if you're flying in 0.0 probably implants too. Who is your main? I'd like to pay you a visit. How does your CEO let you stay? your corp's killboard must be horrible! Oh wait, you are the CEO huh? every post you just made on this thread is now bogus....or you epicly fail.



k/d ratios are so important


Honestly that's so bad even we'd probably kick him.

ALSO ALSO

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Sally Bestonge
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:44:00 - [1428]
 

Originally by: Illectroculus Defined
YOu could just scan down some anomalies and sit in them cloaked, then even if the system owners do come and kill all the rats you can stop it from respawning by staying in the site, do that for a few anomalies and you can effectvely shut down those 'as good as Lvl4 Missions'

smart thinking, already a flaw in the anomaly plan YARRRR!!

Kernok
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:45:00 - [1429]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Hertford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:46:00 - [1430]
 

Hordes flocking from Empire to 0.0 where the tax rate is higher than an NPC corp?

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:47:00 - [1431]
 

Originally by: Vadinho
Originally by: Marlona Sky
You mean players will have to decide if it worth it to claim space and upgrade it based on income and logistics?

The audacity of CCP!!!


they wont have to decide - it just isnt


It is , i will be happy to settle in delve when you finish packing your things out and leave .

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:47:00 - [1432]
 

Edited by: Marlona Sky on 08/11/2009 00:54:02
YES OR NO: Due to the increased tears and emo rage in this thread, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

EDIT: Fixed spelling of emo so goons wont troll me, oh wait... Embarassed


KerKnight
Defenders of the Kernite
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:47:00 - [1433]
 

Originally by: Kernok
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Nilania Telshua
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:47:00 - [1434]
 

Edited by: Nilania Telshua on 08/11/2009 00:51:59
Originally by: Vadinho
Originally by: Nilania Telshua
Due ..

Mindless Drones.. buzz.. buzz...
no because then we still wouldnt have any reason to fight over space


Gods.. I hate to have to agree with a drone. ugh

Actually that comment was on point.

The problem is that the NewSovExperience will not add reasons to hold space, but further remove them.

Financing a fully upgraded system just takes 15 Mio isk per average system/hour system-bounty-turnover that generates 3 million isk per system/hour alliance level income if taxed at 20%.
10 instantly respawning Anomalies will easily provide for that bounty volume per hour.

Yet the devil lies in the combination of the new SovClaim mechanics, with the imperative need to actually rat / mine / plex and in a specific system not only for cash but also to prevent upgrades from decaying.

Assuming a contracted sphere of control and activity, receiving early warning, gathering intel and intercepting enemy activities will be a bit harder than before.

Just one hilarious example: Today a cloakie afk-gang in a system is mostly an annoyance.
Coming Dominion these gangs will be a risk less way for an aggressor or lolrasser to negatively impact the operations in a system and by that damage an alliance.
If the planned nerf to cloaking prerequisites is factored into this scenario, afk-cloakies will be the new cyno-alts.

The new SovClaim mechanism will put small and medium alliances in constant state of emergency, as every roaming gang of proud landless scum will be able to challenge them on a system to system basis.

Sure there will be more pew pew, but that also means there will be more need for cash and more hassle to earn it.

Meanwhile the real symbols of Epeen, alliance fluid on the SovMap and big capital fleets will be much smaller than before.

So aside from mutating the state of 0.0 from entropy into chaos, what does Dominion bring ?

Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:48:00 - [1435]
 

If anyone knows about holding 0.0 space its Triumvirate.

Oh wait!

Zareph
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:48:00 - [1436]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
rational cost so 5 million upkeep per day is more reasonable.

- Strategic Upgrades

The key upgrades here we want to force you to make economic decisions over are naturally the jump bridges and cynosural jammer use. The presence of these two has radical effects on the 'landscape' generally.

We are looking at no upkeep cost on either of the construction arrays and cynosural field generators and then maintain significant costs the cynosural jammer and jump bridges.



So my question is though those two things require an entire POS to support them. Same for JBs, at least there's been no indication that the mechanic to use those devices will change.

So now I have an expensive piniata that any idiot gang can run by and reinforce pausing my construction just to harass. I don't understand the concept of 'super cap construction' costing me isk on top of the pos, fuel, and the CSAA/CSMA items that are already ridiculously priced.

one thing I'd be interested in is if super cap or jb's were invuln until the STOP had it's 12 hours to make them shootable. Otherwise supercap construction has gotten extremely difficult to manage. The same could be say for cyno jammers the ridiculous prices required to manage them should give you some benefit. OTherwise it just looks like you're taking more isk out of the system with no real benefit other than ha ha only the richest alliances can build them.

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:50:00 - [1437]
 

Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Vadinho
Originally by: Marlona Sky
You mean players will have to decide if it worth it to claim space and upgrade it based on income and logistics?

The audacity of CCP!!!


they wont have to decide - it just isnt


It is , i will be happy to settle in delve when you finish packing your things out and leave .


Why yes with the reduction of moon goo needed and the oversupply of officer/deadspace items from 23/7 ratting you to can make about 5 million an hour while always being at risk of someone blowing your ass up.

Dominion as it is now is less profitable than level 4 missions. Unless you just happen to find officer spawns every few minutes Rolling Eyes

Mrs Trzzbk
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:50:00 - [1438]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
YES OR NO: Due to the increased tears and emmo rage in this thread, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.




What the hell is emmo?

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:52:00 - [1439]
 

Originally by: Qlanth
If anyone knows about holding 0.0 space its Triumvirate.

Oh wait!


We hold what we want, not take space just for the sake of taking it to make our sovereignty on the map bigger.


Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:52:00 - [1440]
 

Originally by: Mrs Trzzbk
Originally by: Marlona Sky
YES OR NO: Due to the increased tears and emmo rage in this thread, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.




What the hell is emmo?


I think it's some extinct giant kiwi from New Zealand.


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