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Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:09:00 - [1381]
 

Originally by: Mrs Trzzbk

Originally by: Decimat Draconia

Your overlooking the buff other moons will receive. The nurff to two kinds of r64 will be balanced with a buff to the others.


I haven't run the math but I'm pretty sure it isn't going to all balance out.


If you read Akita post about it, it is probable it compensate the decrease in value of R64 it and maybe even give a better return after the initial market adjustments.

Even it that was a optimistic prevision, the decrease in total moon income will not be so great as large quantities of lesser moon minerals will become useful.

The biggest change will be that the sources of that income will be more dispersed instead of a few POS.



Zahorite
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:10:00 - [1382]
 

You know, if this was WOW, all the little kids wouldn't know about this until it happened. And then once it happened it would take them half a month to figure out what changed lol.

Part of the reason I like Eve. It has an intelligent fan base that isn't afraid to rant about things they don't like.

Mcon99
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:12:00 - [1383]
 

Originally by: Hay Maker
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

.
Lol now this is turning into epic quoting

Please CCP, don't answer this question. As we know, it's simply irrelevant. Comparing high sec isk whoring to 0.0 cooperative gameplay and isk making is apples to oranges. Actually, please nerf L4 mission income by 80%. That will be more reflective of the amount of time people should invest into useless, dead end gameply.


cok cola
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:12:00 - [1384]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.
??????????????????

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:13:00 - [1385]
 

Sorry dude most of us have Jobs and obligations outside internet spaceships. Must be nice to live with mom.

Mistress Frome
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:13:00 - [1386]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Sally Bestonge
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:13:00 - [1387]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Hertford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:13:00 - [1388]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Still preferred my "Should Have Gone to Motsu" tagline, but hey I can roll with the crowd.

Tesal
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:15:00 - [1389]
 

I think this Sov cost is more than triple what will allow a lot of corps to get to cash flow after the Sov Tax. Assume the following for a 15 person, 30 character corp in a single time zone.

2 Carrier char, BS capable - active 5 days a week
2 dread char, BS capable - active 5 days a week
6 BS/HAC/Recon with T2 guns char - active 3 days a week
10 BS with T1 guns char - active 2 days a week
6 BC newbs - active 4 days a week
4 frig newbs - active 3 days a week

Expenses are:
3 large POS and infrastructure costs (600m or so)
cap ship fuel
ship replacement, ammo, defense
Sov with cyno jammer, hub and upgrades (55m per day, 1.65b month)

Income is:
Taxes 900m
crappy moons 600m

Assume a baseline for ratting is 600m per live person, or about 9b per month for that corp. That is fairly typical for semi carebears, its about 20 hours work per person at 30m per hour. With upgrades, assume you cut it in half to 10 hours work. Non-taxable forms of income are irrelevant. Mining, wormholes and other activities will not put much cash into the corp unless it is a communist corp. Most corps are not communist. Corp tax is 10% typically, so 900m isk per month flows into corp coffers from taxes. More if you raise taxes. Cash flow is at 40% taxes, with the bulk of it going to pay for Sov. The moon argument doesn't work because all the big guys will grab them if they are worth anything at all.

Show me a cash flow chart I can believe in on this. Same mistakes were made with wormholes as were made here, there isn't a workable cash flow system to put money directly in the corp wallet.

Cefte
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:16:00 - [1390]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure
Originally by: Cefte
Originally by: Vivian Azure

Learn to make ISK.

I spend some 1/10 of my time making enough ISK in EvE to fly around in Tech 2 cruisers the whole day and loose some 5 HACs a week.

Making 1 billion ISK a week is a piece of cake and can be done 90% AFK.

So are you the long-suffering logistics ***** of your alliance who hates them and everyone else who lives in 0.0 because you spend all your time doing the logistics that lets them enjoy themselves, or are you the anonymous alt who still refuses to post on the main whose purported existence is the only crutch for your crippled arguments, or are you the 0.0 playboy who spends one tenth of his online time making billions a month and losing 5 HACs a week in PvP?

Because either you're a really bad PvPer, or you're doing a whole lot of hours of PvP a week.

Or you're not only an anonymous alt, but a fantasist who can't keep his story straight.


I'm all of this at the same time.

Originally by: Vivian Azure
If you strive for personal income, then it's your problem.

In 0.0 there should be 100% tax and the ally paying for all the assets you need to do the fighting for them. That's how it works for us... it's called communism, and it actually works in EvE.

2 bil a month is nothing, if you divide it between 10 players. That's a laughable 7 Million ISK per day per player.

Originally by: Vivian Azure
30 minutes of ratting, or flying a single LvL 4 mission can't hardly be called work tbh, if you compare it with the amount of time I spend with hauling, fueling towers and reactors or production every day.

The usual grunts don't know what they're talking about, as we industrial players are the ones so far, who do all the work for them, so that they can enjoy the game. Now it's their time to contribute some time for the alliance aswell.

So, pathologically lying fantastist.

I'd express hope that that would be enough to shove you back into whatever hole you came from, but given that you respond to an explicitly couched exclusionary choice with 'all of it', I'm not that hopeful.

Misaki Yuuko
Caldari
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:16:00 - [1391]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

+

CCP is being delusional or just plain trolling us: "oh see, you 0.0 dweller are hardcore players, does not matter how much we screw you over and over we know you will continue to pay your sub, but we won't change the fact you can do the same in empire for less effort & nuissance". This has to be a troll, only rational explanation. We are not even asking for a straight nerf, but for a serious motivation for the individuals to go to 0.0.


I'm sorry but you are deluding yourself if you think people wants to be forced in groups for something else that is not PvP, majority DOES NOT WANT, because that content ios plain boring. A lot of people (most) just does pve to earn money to waste on pvp. What do you want, people farming lvl4 with alts so they can use 0.0 just as a meaningless playground???

There is not going to be empire building, drama or more PR material for you unless you start un****ing the situation up and stop trolling people who is or wants to be involved in 0.0. Why do you force that people to work much more and take more risks that some carebear in a NPC corp only to be able to archieve the same thing or barelly a bit more than them.

Just stop it, please.

pi squad
Scalding Pie Services
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:16:00 - [1392]
 

Edited by: pi squad on 08/11/2009 00:18:15
Originally by: Sally Bestonge
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.



let's make page 47 the best page



edit aw damn stop trying to be reasonable you morons you will just get ignored

Nilania Telshua
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:18:00 - [1393]
 

Due to the Epeen provided by leaking an alliance colour all over the sovmap and considering the players decision to choose pew pew over mindless profit by industry trading or missioning, should all pve content be removed from 0.0 to further the glory of our hardcore idols ? That is the question. Yes or No ?

Mindless Drones.. buzz.. buzz...

Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:19:00 - [1394]
 

Originally by: Sally Bestonge
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.


CANT STOP WONT STOP

Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:20:00 - [1395]
 

Originally by: Nilania Telshua
Due to the Epeen provided by leaking an alliance colour all over the sovmap and considering the players decision to choose pew pew over mindless profit by industry trading or missioning, should all pve content be removed from 0.0 to further the glory of our hardcore idols ? That is the question. Yes or No ?

Mindless Drones.. buzz.. buzz...
no because then we still wouldnt have any reason to fight over space

Verlai
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:21:00 - [1396]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

never stop posting

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:21:00 - [1397]
 

Originally by: Verlai
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

never stop posting

Tanuki Doyle
Spontane0us Combustion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:21:00 - [1398]
 

Am i the only person in the universe that is crying because CCP failed to go crazy and add something "new" to 0.0 to make it a more interesting place to live rather than just because of some tedious tweeking of risk/reward ratios?

Slobodanka
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:21:00 - [1399]
 

Originally by: Vadinho
Originally by: Nilania Telshua
Due to the Epeen provided by leaking an alliance colour all over the sovmap and considering the players decision to choose pew pew over mindless profit by industry trading or missioning, should all pve content be removed from 0.0 to further the glory of our hardcore idols ? That is the question. Yes or No ?

Mindless Drones.. buzz.. buzz...
no because then we still wouldnt have any reason to fight over space


You get two anomalies guaranteed!!! Two!! At all times!!!

Misaki Yuuko
Caldari
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:21:00 - [1400]
 

Edited by: Misaki Yuuko on 08/11/2009 00:22:58
Originally by: Nilania Telshua
Due to the Epeen provided by leaking an alliance colour all over the sovmap and considering the players decision to choose pew pew over mindless profit by industry trading or missioning, should all pve content be removed from 0.0 to further the glory of our hardcore idols ? That is the question. Yes or No ?

Mindless Drones.. buzz.. buzz...


Absolutlly, let's finally do it: sandbox, what is that lol, just let's convert 0.0 into the ultimate meaningless playground, CS in spaceships.

p.s: I'm not a goon alt, but I sympathize with the guys.

Quote:
Am i the only person in the universe that is crying because CCP failed to go crazy and add something "new" to 0.0 to make it a more interesting place to live rather than just because of some tedious tweeking of risk/reward ratios?


Too much :effort: for CCP, they are too bussy working on Incarna and Dust dude, you better don't distract their programmers.

pi squad
Scalding Pie Services
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:23:00 - [1401]
 

cs in spaceships could actually be fun

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:24:00 - [1402]
 

Originally by: Slobodanka
Originally by: Vadinho
Originally by: Nilania Telshua
Due to the Epeen provided by leaking an alliance colour all over the sovmap and considering the players decision to choose pew pew over mindless profit by industry trading or missioning, should all pve content be removed from 0.0 to further the glory of our hardcore idols ? That is the question. Yes or No ?

Mindless Drones.. buzz.. buzz...
no because then we still wouldnt have any reason to fight over space


You get two anomalies guaranteed!!! Two!! At all times!!!


If those anomalies were actually worth something. f..e it were 2 anoamyls comprapable with income of c3 wormhole or higer , that would make a HUGE diffrence

IsoMetricanTaliac 2
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:24:00 - [1403]
 


The more I hear & read about Dominion the less I look forward to it getting here.

The way things are going this new system is not going to make anything any harder or cost more it is a move to make EVE yet another one of those very boring grinding games, but instead of having to grind for a better level in EVE you will have to grind 98% of the time to keep your corp/alliance viable. 0.0 will be lucky to see any new players & may in fact see less players than it currently is.

I guess I never really expected Dominion to be half of what it was being claimed to be, but the way it's going it is maybe 1% of what it started out to be & 99% rubbish. The new Sov system will probably end up being cheaper than the current one & that will see alliances holding more space seeing they now no longer need to have hundreds of POS's all over the place & can now use a minimum number without having to worry about POS spam taking Sov. (I have no idea however of the cost of currently holding sov & whether most systems that are held would actually require more than 5 large POS's to hold Sov in so my numbers could very well be wrong)

With the nerf'ing of highends is that just going to cause those moon holding alliances to go take mid/low ends also to make up for the highend drops? If they do a lot of the smaller alliances that hold the low ends aren't going to be much better off are they?

How glad I am that I won 12 months of Game time cause at least if it turns out a complete stuff up it won't have cost me a whole lot for the last 12 months..

Here is hoping that there are some good changes in the next 3 or so weeks cause it isn't looking to crash hot ATM from where I am sitting.....

Tommy Blue
Black Lance
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:26:00 - [1404]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Vivian Azure
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:26:00 - [1405]
 

Edited by: Vivian Azure on 08/11/2009 00:28:34
Originally by: Qlanth
Originally by: Vivian Azure
Originally by: Cefte
Originally by: Vivian Azure

Learn to make ISK.

I spend some 1/10 of my time making enough ISK in EvE to fly around in Tech 2 cruisers the whole day and loose some 5 HACs a week.

Making 1 billion ISK a week is a piece of cake and can be done 90% AFK.

So are you the long-suffering logistics ***** of your alliance who hates them and everyone else who lives in 0.0 because you spend all your time doing the logistics that lets them enjoy themselves, or are you the anonymous alt who still refuses to post on the main whose purported existence is the only crutch for your crippled arguments, or are you the 0.0 playboy who spends one tenth of his online time making billions a month and losing 5 HACs a week in PvP?

Because either you're a really bad PvPer, or you're doing a whole lot of hours of PvP a week.

Or you're not only an anonymous alt, but a fantasist who can't keep his story straight.


I'm all of this at the same time.

I do alot of industrial stuff for my corp/alliance before primetime and then take part in nearly every fleet that forms up.
While doing the above, I've got a mission-running-alt running LvL 4's (allmost 100% AFK with an Ishtar in Gallente-Space against Serpentis) on my second rig or I play the market.

Do I play alot? Yes, some 6 hours a day.


I'm sorry to say it but your situation is abnormal and most people have a job and a family and cannot play a video game 6 hours a day. Most are lucky to get in 1 or 2 hours a day.


Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Sorry dude most of us have Jobs and obligations outside internet spaceships. Must be nice to live with mom.


Yeah, keep believing in nerds living in their parents basement...

I used to work 14-16 hours a day to get to the point, where it's enough to only work some 4 hours a day. So yes, I've got plenty of time for EvE, while having time for everything else you do, but I'm not 20 anymore... far from that.

Regardless...

Even if you've got only 2 hours a day to play EvE, then 25% of that time isn't too much to ask to contribute to the alliance by hunting rats or flying a single LvL 4 to pay for the sov-bills.

cok cola
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:27:00 - [1406]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Dante Edmundo
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:28:00 - [1407]
 

Originally by: Tanuki Doyle
Am i the only person in the universe that is crying because CCP failed to go crazy and add something "new" to 0.0 to make it a more interesting place to live rather than just because of some tedious tweeking of risk/reward ratios?


You know I've been thinking the same thing after reading through all 1000 posts of this forum. Almost no complaining that actually nothing really that new has been added to 0.0 other than increasing activities for what is already there - and these activities in general are grinds such as mining, ratting, anomalies which are to pay for the new upkeep costs.

It doesn't seem that imaginative to me ... I was hoping for something more interesting - like new types of structures you could build maybe on asteroids - or new structures around planets, or even something really more space like with an upgrade - like the comets they were talking about.

I dunno - just tweaking the numbers in what appears to be a very poor manner seems to have 1) created a huge negative response to the player base 2) not address the potential of staleness that can be fatal for many computer games

What is really oddly missing with the new 0.0 Sov expansion is very little of it has to do with PvP, which IMO is the heart of 0.0 play. Go figure.




ceaon
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:28:00 - [1408]
 

Originally by: cok cola
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

is this considered spam ?
just asking

Pink Money
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:28:00 - [1409]
 

Originally by: cok cola
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Mistress Frome
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:29:00 - [1410]
 

new page new post

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.


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