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JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2009.11.07 23:52:00 - [1351]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis


excellent clarity of vision I must say!

It is true and something we said from outset that unbalanced alliances who are 95% PvP/Fleet and 5% industry will be most affected by this as we are reducing their dependency on passive point sources and introducing greater active resource density to allow for passive income to take over.

The alliances who will benefit most are those who have or aim to have balanced compositions of people with different playstyles or even act as enforcers or protectors of the space with multiple rental agreements if they wish and we will add tools as we call the treaty system to help facilitate that.



Yes the vision is gret and i agree with it , but i have 2 words for you :

* hi-sec
* lvl4

Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.07 23:53:00 - [1352]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure


EvE was once a game, where you had to invest lot's of time and efforts into the game. Today it's just a shadow of itself, getting dumbed down into the direction of ADHD-kiddies that can't be bothered to do something for longer then 2 minutes.

So yes. If it was up to me, I'd make this game hardcore again, where you need to spend 1/3 of your time playing to have enough money for the ships to fly around in the other 2/3 of your time.

Making ISK is way too easy these days, as is holding space.


How dare people want to have fun in a game! They should have to do boring, repetitive tasks to accomplish their goals rather than show any skill or creativity!

Having played from 2005, I can tell you that it's not any dumber than it was before. If anything, it's gotten better just because fleet fights aren't determined by who lags the least.

You're just really dumb.

Sally Bestonge
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.11.07 23:53:00 - [1353]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.07 23:53:00 - [1354]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure
Originally by: Zahorite
Originally by: Vivian Azure
Edited by: Vivian Azure on 07/11/2009 23:43:19
Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang

So why are you supporting changes that force us to do more of it? Are you just that dumb?


EvE was once a game, where you had to invest lot's of time and efforts into the game. Today it's just a shadow of itself, getting dumbed down into the direction of ADHD-kiddies that can't be bothered to do something for longer then 2 minutes.

So yes. If it was up to me, I'd make this game hardcore again, where you need to spend 1/3 of your time playing to have enough money for the ships to fly around in the other 2/3 of your time.

Making ISK is way too easy these days, as is holding space.


If that was the case we would all be happy. That isn't how things work now, and this update is going to make it even worse. Right now it's about 2/3 making money for 1/3 doing pvp, after this update it will be worse.


Learn to make ISK.

I spend some 1/10 of my time making enough ISK in EvE to fly around in Tech 2 cruisers the whole day and loose some 5 HACs a week.

Making 1 billion ISK a week is a piece of cake and can be done 90% AFK.


You must be ****ing awful at PvP

Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.07 23:53:00 - [1355]
 

Originally by: Aeryn Carter
Spam.Applebabe

Kal Koitar
GF Development Inc.
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.07 23:54:00 - [1356]
 

Originally by: Mcon99
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar


And before you say "cry more" since you're probably trolling anyway - I have three accounts, one of which was a recent Power of Two purchase I'm regretting making now.


No please, keep crying. Obviously the complainers in this thread are failed 0.0 pilots who are so bad they need mission alts.

If everyone in this thread keeps believing that complaining about the Lvl 4 income vs 0.0 is going to change CCP minds, they are nuts. Lvl 4's ARE CRAP GAMEPLAY. ALWAYS. 0.0 is the BEST GAMEPLAY (including wormholes). Total freedom. Faction drops. Solo and group PVE. The best ores. And PVP can be right around the corner.

First rule for real players - never have a mission alt. Never. Never mission. Ever. Plex, rat, wormhole, explore. Mission grinding in high sec is failure. Missions in 0.0, respectable, i must admit, because the risk factor.

<-- Never missioned. Never made much isk on the market, only a little through manufacturing. Don't mine. Between wormholes, 0.0 rats and plexes, and pvp returns, I have billions.



If the most efficient isk-making locations don't conincide with the best PvP locations, things get boring really quickly.

Zahorite
Posted - 2009.11.07 23:54:00 - [1357]
 

Edited by: Zahorite on 07/11/2009 23:54:44
Originally by: Qlanth
You guys should check out Perpetuum, being developed by an ex-BoB guy looks pretty sweet.

http://www.perpetuum-online.com/


Going to have to check it out, I'm always looking for a new game lol. Then again I keep on coming back to Eve so I keep my subscriptions active. If this update goes through as is I think I may take a break and review the situation in a couple of months. CCP at least deserves a few months to fix things, although I'm not paying three subscriptions for an entire year if I decide I'm not going to use them. Anyway I'll probably go back to DDO for a month or two.

Cefte
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.07 23:54:00 - [1358]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure

Learn to make ISK.

I spend some 1/10 of my time making enough ISK in EvE to fly around in Tech 2 cruisers the whole day and loose some 5 HACs a week.

Making 1 billion ISK a week is a piece of cake and can be done 90% AFK.

So are you the long-suffering logistics ***** of your alliance who hates them and everyone else who lives in 0.0 because you spend all your time doing the logistics that lets them enjoy themselves, or are you the anonymous alt who still refuses to post on the main whose purported existence is the only crutch for your crippled arguments, or are you the 0.0 playboy who spends one tenth of his online time making billions a month and losing 5 HACs a week in PvP?

Because either you're a really bad PvPer, or you're doing a whole lot of hours of PvP a week.

Or you're not only an anonymous alt, but a fantasist who can't keep his story straight.

Nai'gah
Posted - 2009.11.07 23:55:00 - [1359]
 

Originally by: Qlanth

Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang

I spend some 1/10 of my time making enough ISK in EvE to fly around in Tech 2 cruisers the whole day and loose some 5 HACs a week.

Making 1 billion ISK a week is a piece of cake and can be done 90% AFK.


You must be ****ing awful at PvP
Laughing

Yldrad
The Dandy KillerS
Posted - 2009.11.07 23:55:00 - [1360]
 

Why so serious? It's only a game. Cool

Raphael Scoria
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.07 23:56:00 - [1361]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Going to have to push you for an answer here, I'm afraid. And "we would really like to do this at some point in the future" isn't acceptable.

Kayl Breinhar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.07 23:58:00 - [1362]
 

Originally by: Mcon99
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar


And before you say "cry more" since you're probably trolling anyway - I have three accounts, one of which was a recent Power of Two purchase I'm regretting making now.


No please, keep crying. Obviously the complainers in this thread are failed 0.0 pilots who are so bad they need mission alts.

If everyone in this thread keeps believing that complaining about the Lvl 4 income vs 0.0 is going to change CCP minds, they are nuts. Lvl 4's ARE CRAP GAMEPLAY. ALWAYS. 0.0 is the BEST GAMEPLAY (including wormholes). Total freedom. Faction drops. Solo and group PVE. The best ores. And PVP can be right around the corner.

First rule for real players - never have a mission alt. Never. Never mission. Ever. Plex, rat, wormhole, explore. Mission grinding in high sec is failure. Missions in 0.0, respectable, i must admit, because the risk factor.

<-- Never missioned. Never made much isk on the market, only a little through manufacturing. Don't mine. Between wormholes, 0.0 rats and plexes, and pvp returns, I have billions.

None of them are mission alts. They're all 0.0 support. And I'm sure we all enjoy hearing about your bling. I have a nice roll too, I just don't act like a smug ***got about it.

EdFromHumanResources
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.07 23:58:00 - [1363]
 

Originally by: Korodan
Originally by: Aeryn Carter
Spam.Applebabe


Perianwyr
GoonFleet
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2009.11.07 23:58:00 - [1364]
 

Originally by: Vadinho
~~~ff`
~ffxf~
~fs`f~ILIER at., p.s., .pb., alloy wheels, stereo cassette, 2
dr., blue with matching cloth int., looks & runs great, gas
saver. £6500

QUERIOUS FOR SALE, CHEAP!!

mid-sized region, dense star distribution. slightly used. high outpost to system ratio. conveniently close to empire. friendly neighbors - hope you're the social type! jumpbrdge calculations available. must sell before december. 500b isk O.B.O.

79 CAMARO, T-tops, power everything, red on black,
cloth interior, V8, automatic, good runner. Recent starter, battery
and alte~~~rf```~~~`~~~
'er'`~~rrf4


if we could directly turn moons into ships that'd be fantastic

fireraven
Caldari
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
Posted - 2009.11.07 23:58:00 - [1365]
 

My Corporation for example, with relatively small amount of people(like 20), already pays rent to XxdeathxX to make use of their space in the first place (good system at that). Rent is 430mil a week, if we were to upgrade and pay to keep sov(minimum 210mil a week), we're looking at paying 640mil a week. Which even at best, if we had EVERYONE working around the clock, we would barely make rent.

And I don't know about everyone else in eve, but most of us have real jobs, don't have the time or energy to try and maintain a system for 10 plus hours a day. If it comes down to it and prices stay as they are, screw 0.0. Would rather live in a wormhole.

Zahorite
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:00:00 - [1366]
 

Originally by: Yldrad
Why so serious? It's only a game. Cool


One I've paid a hundred's of dollars and spent hundreds of hours getting to the point where I'm at. I'm not worried that this is going to affect me a lot, if I don't like it I'll go play another game while my character levels up some skills. I'm worried that this is going to cause a lot of other people to quit the game. That means that CCP is going to have less money to work on new and exciting things, which means more people quite, which means eventually Eve will shut down. I'd rather that not happen, especially since I usually have fun on Eve.

Alexandros T'dra
Minmatar
Ion Corp.
Citex Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:03:00 - [1367]
 

Perhaps if the infrastructure devices (upgrades and sov thingy) were fed minerals instead of ISK this would be a better situation. It rewards having an indie base, it makes camping out in 0.0 easier as it takes a load off the logistics aspect of getting goods to market in order to feed the monster and allows smaller alliances into 0.0 without having to have a jump freighter capability. Just a thought.

Faraothe
BIG
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:03:00 - [1368]
 

Isk isk isk? You'll pay just isk and everything works?

This will be a huge isk sink, well yes there's a lot isk in the game and new isk was indeed needed - but in this scale... have you considered the consequences?
Wouldn't there be any point to integrate sov cost to real economy... like it being certain items manufacturable from various resources like minerals and other products of space? The isk sink portion would be easy to create by need of some only NPC sold items in empire... or the straight isk fee.
I think making the cost of sov, not directly related to isk as way to go, it would also encourage industry in 0.0 to manufacture these (or part of these needed items) or even force it by forcing the construction to happen in the system the quota is needed.
As former drone regions dweller pure isk fee will put ppl on those regions on disadvantage as they are forced to move all their "stuff" acquired from their space to empire and change it to iskies.

tl:dr: Isn't simple isk fee bit simple minded?

P.S. Don't come too low with the requirements to have the sov as low costs won't change that much compared to today's situation.

5hadow 1
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:04:00 - [1369]
 

After living in 0.0 for over two years I agree with what CCP is doing to try to promote usage of space. A lot of 900 Lbs Gorillas’ hold vast amounts of space and it not being used. But charging these outrageous prices for holding SOV is wrong.

IMO it should be the cost of one tower for upkeep for a month for your first system that you chose to plant your flag on as an alliance. Then if get your second system it should increase in price just like the empire war decks. The more systems you add to your control the more it cost you. If you have SOV in the whole constellation then you should get a discount if you have certain infrastructures in place in all the systems of that constellation. Also if you have SOV in one constellation and you take SOV in another constellation that is not connected by gate travel it should really cost you a lot. This will prevent the 900lbs gorilla alliances from getting the best space without a price or penalty.

This may have been posted in here earlier so I apologize if I have repeated what someone else has said, but I do not have the time to read 45 pages of this new SOV prices are screwed which is true.

Morgoth Ars
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:05:00 - [1370]
 

Originally by: Raphael Scoria
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Going to have to push you for an answer here, I'm afraid. And "we would really like to do this at some point in the future" isn't acceptable.

Sally Bestonge
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:05:00 - [1371]
 

Originally by: EdFromHumanResources
Originally by: Korodan
Originally by: Aeryn Carter
Originally by: Alexis Avalon
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.





don't you get it guys CCP wants you to quit eve so DUST 514 isn't a commercial failure

Droog 1
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:05:00 - [1372]
 

Come play Eve and 'work' in 0.0. Laughing


Odyessus
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:06:00 - [1373]
 

Originally by: Dualshock
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.


the proposed costs for null sec alliances is outrageous.

/signed

Vivian Azure
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:06:00 - [1374]
 

Originally by: Cefte
Originally by: Vivian Azure

Learn to make ISK.

I spend some 1/10 of my time making enough ISK in EvE to fly around in Tech 2 cruisers the whole day and loose some 5 HACs a week.

Making 1 billion ISK a week is a piece of cake and can be done 90% AFK.

So are you the long-suffering logistics ***** of your alliance who hates them and everyone else who lives in 0.0 because you spend all your time doing the logistics that lets them enjoy themselves, or are you the anonymous alt who still refuses to post on the main whose purported existence is the only crutch for your crippled arguments, or are you the 0.0 playboy who spends one tenth of his online time making billions a month and losing 5 HACs a week in PvP?

Because either you're a really bad PvPer, or you're doing a whole lot of hours of PvP a week.

Or you're not only an anonymous alt, but a fantasist who can't keep his story straight.


I'm all of this at the same time.

I do alot of industrial stuff for my corp/alliance before primetime and then take part in nearly every fleet that forms up.
While doing the above, I've got a mission-running-alt running LvL 4's (allmost 100% AFK with an Ishtar in Gallente-Space against Serpentis) on my second rig or I play the market.

Do I play alot? Yes, some 6 hours a day.

Nehalennia Mellona
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:06:00 - [1375]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Popillius Laenas
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:07:00 - [1376]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Dante Edmundo
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:08:00 - [1377]
 

Edited by: Dante Edmundo on 08/11/2009 00:13:31

Epic Thread!

I'm enjoying the drama (more popcorn please) and I do think all the posters here have participated in a bit of Eve history. It's a memorable forum on a memorable topic.

I want to compliment both the Goons for their willingness to speak up - and compliment CCP for responding so very rapidly by posting.

I would say to the Goons - try not to get to vitriolic - I mean, it does look as if CCP is trying to respond. And to CCP - I would say don't get too defensive and do try to listen to what is being said.

Cheers to all. Methinks we're all going to plod along with the new release - lots of good (Planets, Factions Ships, No More POS based SOV) and some clearly bad. Nothing is ever perfect. I'm glad actually to see the drama - it does show real passion for Eve. heh.


Hay Maker
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:08:00 - [1378]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.

Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:08:00 - [1379]
 

Originally by: Vivian Azure
Originally by: Cefte
Originally by: Vivian Azure

Learn to make ISK.

I spend some 1/10 of my time making enough ISK in EvE to fly around in Tech 2 cruisers the whole day and loose some 5 HACs a week.

Making 1 billion ISK a week is a piece of cake and can be done 90% AFK.

So are you the long-suffering logistics ***** of your alliance who hates them and everyone else who lives in 0.0 because you spend all your time doing the logistics that lets them enjoy themselves, or are you the anonymous alt who still refuses to post on the main whose purported existence is the only crutch for your crippled arguments, or are you the 0.0 playboy who spends one tenth of his online time making billions a month and losing 5 HACs a week in PvP?

Because either you're a really bad PvPer, or you're doing a whole lot of hours of PvP a week.

Or you're not only an anonymous alt, but a fantasist who can't keep his story straight.


I'm all of this at the same time.

I do alot of industrial stuff for my corp/alliance before primetime and then take part in nearly every fleet that forms up.
While doing the above, I've got a mission-running-alt running LvL 4's (allmost 100% AFK with an Ishtar in Gallente-Space against Serpentis) on my second rig or I play the market.

Do I play alot? Yes, some 6 hours a day.


I'm sorry to say it but your situation is abnormal and most people have a job and a family and cannot play a video game 6 hours a day. Most are lucky to get in 1 or 2 hours a day.

Ling Xiaoyu
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:09:00 - [1380]
 

YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.


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