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Zahorite
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:06:00 - [1021]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Lonewolfnight
The real point here is you have a static fee system to attempt to force a dynamic level. Take a look at tying your fee's to the activity level markers. The more activity in system the lower the cost for sovereignty. Then you can have large fee's for systems that are unused and driver alliance's to either utilize them or drop the sov.


Other people in the thread have touched on the principle of resource upgrades actually applying a discount to the upkeep bill. It is certainly intriguing and easy enough for us to do assuming that the base cost was adjusted sufficiently to make a discount worth it.

At that point, you would in the current model have not only the resources and income of 20 or so people but also a discount to the upkeep cost as well and would act as a bonus to actual system usage.

We shall explore this further :)



I like the idea since it would at least allow NRDS systems to still have a use. People that were just neutral would lower your costs by mining or destroying npc rats. Would it also be possible to allow this to happen even if the upgrade wasn't deployed. This would make it beneficial to increase the level in systems even if you weren't planning to deploy more upgrades to that system.

Equinox Daedalus
Caldari
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:07:00 - [1022]
 

taxes.

In the world they are a way to control you, you set artifically high numbers to create/cause rabble.

then you say, oh, here you go, we have set them real small now, so that everyone will say, boy, thats not really that bad, instead of 2 bil isk, its now (insert something less) thats great, isteand of getting really forked we only get forked less. I really like that thank you.

But at the end of the day, really, once you introduce a system by which you "tax" the tax never goes away. Why should CVA and by all rights every other sov holding alliance pay CCP taxes.

Your no better than any other dictaorship or Comministic Regime in the world today. You punish excellence, harder work, and effort by rewarding those who do no want to work hard. You want the Stong to carry the weak, the weak to get whatever it is they want. Not by the strongs choice, but at the barrel of a gun. You Demand those who work hard, can sacfricie just a little sliver, as who doesn't want to help the poor, the down trodden, the weak. The sliver will only grow, until its a gaping wound bleading alliances dry.

As a Major dilpomat/person in CVA, the number of totally hilarious threats cva has recived saying we will need to adapat, will need to give up our space becuase we are the "fat" of the land. Indeed many of the alt posts here, say much they same, "stop whining", just rat more: I forsee a scorched earth policy in effect much more now than ever.

Any alliance that should just give up all its work, all its effort, simplpy becuase we worked to hard, we fought to well, to alliances who have done nothing have not dropped a drop of sweat down, is jsut comical.


I just am saddened that a game that is so focued on market pvp, combat pvp. A game that is so strong and focuses on how the "butterfly effect" can change tides, how the stong and determined can overcome the weak.is in reality a welfare state. I'm guess only now we'll need free ships for those who make less than 15 mil isk a week.

Bobby Atlas
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:07:00 - [1023]
 

Originally by: John Zorg
Originally by: Bobby Atlas

Thank you for acknowledging that there is in fact an issue that requires looking into further; however per jump bridges the linear approach unfairly penalizes those alliance who find themselves on the far reaches of 0.0 space. CCP has made a point of balancing so much the last few months from skills to ships to modules but the concept of distance from empire still seems to elude you relative to the cost of a jump bridge system with the proposed changes.

With the changes on paper as-is relative to your post, an alliance in branch or omist for instance, requires about 12 jump bridges to empire, the costs of this will be obscenely high in the order of around 8bn (much better than the 15bn originally) but still a little on the extreme side. Why should alliances that find themselves further from empire be penalized unequally for it when alliances bordering empire require all of 1-2 jump bridges or even none, I still maintain that the linear approach is not ideal and should be revised.


Just because I live further from Town than the other guy doesn't mean that my fuel for my car should be cheaper, it's your choice to stay where you do. It also makes you safer from new corps and alliances that are going to try make their way out into 0.0. There is a plus and a minus for you.


Generally no its not a matter of choice and as CCP like to so eloquently tell us often this is not RL and such comparisons are not suitable.

The simple fact of the matter is why should a linear fee structure for jump bridges penalize those on the farther reaches of 0.0 more so than everyone else.

Mia McGee
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:07:00 - [1024]
 

Good job, another step in the way of making 0.0 an empty wasteland. What are you all smoking?

Crucifier
Gank Bangers
Moar Tears
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:08:00 - [1025]
 

Originally by: TZeer
Originally by: emotua
With current prices!

Let's say your currently inside an alliance that needs to be claiming 100 system with a size of 1800 in-game characters, have around 40 systems as JBs to get to empire/allies/near baddies and back.

Hell, we have 160 systems for 2600 people.


Comes dominion, you want to keep that empire you acquired through sweat, tears, and blood. and well, since those r64 ain't gonna pay the bills anymore, we might need a gazillion common goo moons, safe jammed, network infrastucture to move all that, a gazillion belts to rat that upkeep, so your gonna need to keep what you have etc.

well, upkeep indeed... So you would be looking at around :

60*(20+10+4+25)+40*(20+10+4+25+12.5) = ( 3540 + 2860 ) million isk/day = 6.4 billion isk/day => 192 billion isk/30days of JUST paying upkeep.

Not included is the fuel still needed for towers, etc...

BUT you have 1800 people! well actually probably more like 720 real one ( 2 real people / 5 chars | 2 main, 3 alts - average ).
Out of those 720, probably 40% of that mass is really active ( yeah that's a very good number... )

=> 288 active real people => 192 billion isk/288 = 666.66 million isk/month/person ( see! EVIL!) just for the upkeep.


Now According to somebody, you can make 7 million isk every 30 minutes! OMG, we are saved! to the RAVENS!

Well, hold on here, that would require 666/7*30 = 2854 minutes or around 47 hours of your online time every month just to do YOUR PART! would you?

Now, you also need to pay for your ships, fuel for caps, skills, quafe, exotic dancers etc...

oh and wait, it's actually 0.0 here, you actually need some time to defend, attack people, PVP, right?!! what a lot of us pay/play the game for?


See you are using number to your advantage...

First you say you have 160 systems for 2600 people.

Then you say cause of alts you are actually 720 real one. And 40% of them are really active.

So you actually have 288 active real people.


Now tell me why you need 160 ( actually 158 according to DOTLAN )systems to sustain your 288 real active people. That means you have less then 2 people on average in each systems...





1 system cant really hold up more than 2 ppl

Hertford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:08:00 - [1026]
 

Originally by: TZeer


Now tell me why you need 160 ( actually 158 according to DOTLAN )systems to sustain your 288 real active people. That means you have less then 2 people on average in each systems...




Because currently that's how many people those systems can support in terms of a self-sufficient income.

Sith8
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:09:00 - [1027]
 

Originally by: Cefte

Every single system with Goonswarm sov gets scanned and run for the profitable (read, non-profession) cosmic signatures by explorers every day. That's because the position of the plex loot on the supply/demand curve makes it a worthwhile use of time: you can make more money exploring than you can running L4 missions in empire.

No-one in our space mines, because mining in our space, or, indeed, any space, is not a profitable use of time compared to drone region ratting, or running L4 missions in empire.

People don't do unprofitable things in unprofitable space. Most of 0.0 is unprofitable space completely discounting the costs to hold it, right now.

0.0 was already at a disadvantage for having to spend a proportion of its income to simply provide basic services such as stations, and for the vastly increased risk. Those costs were offset by moongold. Remove moongold: OK, fine. Increase costs to hold space massively, without increasing the time profit density of that space, and what do you get? You get *****ing, you get no influx of empire dwellers to 0.0, and you get a game filled with mission runners and a PR department that has to lie through their teeth when they make HD propaganda trailers about going into deep nullsec and finding untold riches and great risks.


Damn, add to this that we are basically supposed to rent the space we spent years conquering and developing from CCP (on top of paying them for subscription) and you got a nice post there.

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:10:00 - [1028]
 

Another idea I had was the possibility of taxing NPC kills in a system rather than just those within a corp. It's an idea just to support the NRDS people that can't reap taxes from the people that use their space. Perhaps they could set their hub to collect a 10% tax off NPCers in their system automatically. Maybe even make it an upgrade?

Tamahra
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:10:00 - [1029]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis

Other people in the thread have touched on the principle of resource upgrades actually applying a discount to the upkeep bill. It is certainly intriguing and easy enough for us to do assuming that the base cost was adjusted sufficiently to make a discount worth it.

At that point, you would in the current model have not only the resources and income of 20 or so people but also a discount to the upkeep cost as well and would act as a bonus to actual system usage.

We shall explore this further :)



you MUST implement this, if you want dominion to be a success. its not only an option, its an absolute and 100% MUST. If you dont do it it will fail

Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:12:00 - [1030]
 

Originally by: Nyphur
Another idea I had was the possibility of taxing NPC kills in a system rather than just those within a corp. It's an idea just to support the NRDS people that can't reap taxes from the people that use their space. Perhaps they could set their hub to collect a 10% tax off NPCers in their system automatically. Maybe even make it an upgrade?


This is an unironically Good Idea and I support it.

Khefron
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:12:00 - [1031]
 

Edited by: Khefron on 07/11/2009 19:14:23
if we're paying billions for our jump bridges, will we at least no longer have to keep the damned things loaded with ozone?

edit: also, cosmic anomalies suck ass

whose idea was it to make an upgrade that gives you more of those? Fire that person, or at least make them the subject of public ridicule.

emotua
Gallente
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:14:00 - [1032]
 

Edited by: emotua on 07/11/2009 19:19:07
Originally by: TZeer
Originally by: emotua
With current prices!

Let's say your currently inside an alliance that needs to be claiming 100 system with a size of 1800 in-game characters, have around 40 systems as JBs to get to empire/allies/near baddies and back.

Hell, we have 160 systems for 2600 people.


Comes dominion, you want to keep that empire you acquired through sweat, tears, and blood. and well, since those r64 ain't gonna pay the bills anymore, we might need a gazillion common goo moons, safe jammed, network infrastucture to move all that, a gazillion belts to rat that upkeep, so your gonna need to keep what you have etc.

well, upkeep indeed... So you would be looking at around :

60*(20+10+4+25)+40*(20+10+4+25+12.5) = ( 3540 + 2860 ) million isk/day = 6.4 billion isk/day => 192 billion isk/30days of JUST paying upkeep.

Not included is the fuel still needed for towers, etc...

BUT you have 1800 people! well actually probably more like 720 real one ( 2 real people / 5 chars | 2 main, 3 alts - average ).
Out of those 720, probably 40% of that mass is really active ( yeah that's a very good number... )

=> 288 active real people => 192 billion isk/288 = 666.66 million isk/month/person ( see! EVIL!) just for the upkeep.


Now According to somebody, you can make 7 million isk every 30 minutes! OMG, we are saved! to the RAVENS!

Well, hold on here, that would require 666/7*30 = 2854 minutes or around 47 hours of your online time every month just to do YOUR PART! would you?

Now, you also need to pay for your ships, fuel for caps, skills, quafe, exotic dancers etc...

oh and wait, it's actually 0.0 here, you actually need some time to defend, attack people, PVP, right?!! what a lot of us pay/play the game for?


See you are using number to your advantage...

First you say you have 160 systems for 2600 people.

Then you say cause of alts you are actually 720 real one. And 40% of them are really active.

So you actually have 288 active real people.


Now tell me why you need 160 ( actually 158 according to DOTLAN )systems to sustain your 288 real active people. That means you have less then 2 people on average in each systems...





TZer, the 100/1800 is what I based the calculation on, the 160/2600 is just us. and 2600 is characters, my bad, not real people!

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:14:00 - [1033]
 

Originally by: emotua
Hell, we have 100 systems for 1800 people.

...

BUT you have 1800 people! well actually probably more like 720 real one ... probably 40% of that mass is really active => 288 active real people


You don't need 100 systems for 288 active people.

First you say that you have 1800 people so that you can say you need at least 100 systems.

But then you say that you have only 288 active people and that they cannot pay all the money for so many systems.

Make up your mind!

Either you have 1800 active people and need 100 systems.

Or you have 288 active people and then you do not need 100 systems. If you put 18 people into the system (as you claim intitially with 1800 people in 100 systems) then you only need 16 systems.

And that reduces the costs to 100 mil per person per month. Yes, it is still some money, but not as ridiculous as you tried to outline first!



Anyway!

The jumpbridges should stay expensive beause they are so powerful! Freighter convoys and jumpfreighters are still some alternative.

Carebear stuff in 0.0 won't work. A cloaked pvp gang or even a single hostile person in 0.0 can heavily disrupt the carebearing plexing.

More incentives to fight over space is necessary! With the high end moons gone, what is left to fight over?

Who the hell came up with the idea to pay isk for holding space in lawless space???!!! Evil or Very Mad To whom is all the money paid? And why anyway if it is LAWLESS space???? Hello!!?!

Sad to see that CCP couldn't come up with a better and more belivable in game solution.

Arrow Why not some expensive lightweight fuel pellets which is consumed? And if that stuff is made partly from npc materials (there you have the isk sink then) and partly from the newly discovered sleeper gas sites (aka fullernes) then you could have combined an isk-sink, increased demand for sleeper stuff, wormhole exploitation and a little bit of logistic work (depending how light you make these fuel pellets) into a much better and more important, much more believable system than the current 'throw-away-isk-to-some-anonymous-law-enforcement-agency-in-lawless-space'. Also you could have made the players choose to spend more isk (by buying the pellets from the market) or to save a bit isk (by making the pellets from bought materials) or to save even more isk (by harvesting the fullernes in w-space yourself and buy only the npc materials and make the pellets yourself).

But I guess it is far to late for any of such suggestions. Sad

Bobby Atlas
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:14:00 - [1034]
 

Edited by: Bobby Atlas on 07/11/2009 19:18:44
Originally by: Khefron
if we're paying billions for our jump bridges, will we at least no longer have to keep the damned things loaded with ozone?


Or at very least vastly increased size in jb fuel bay.

Kuzim Blaky'all
Minmatar
Recycling and Recovery
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:14:00 - [1035]
 

sup sup,

a dawg talk to a dawg an him explain to a dawg that recyclien industry in mad trubblz.

dig it, recyclien a rouff gig to get into, an now if a dawg aint got so much places to go, its gonan be even harder.

cant sustaine more than maybe a few recycliars, an top dawgs want to make it so a dawg cant even see whats goin on?

i been playing eve side since i can remember
sad to see it burn in the start of december
for christmas, a dawg just wanted black magic
instead you givein dawgs a piece of black coal? tragic.
a dawg what a buff to recyclien goods
in places him call his neighborhoods
but you aint doing nothin for a posse who thrive
(even tho we've been a thousan tims brought alive)
looks like re-re gonan take a final nap
kuz da ccp posse, them dont give a crap
a dawg cant afford to run him posse
if him gonan be forced to be runnin at a loss, see
hope to see a posse post December come an go,
but da wind of change be blowin, so dawg, i dunno.
no dawg,
say it aint so dawg
otherwise its time fo da re-re to never again log.


Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:14:00 - [1036]
 

Originally by: Zastrow
this was on goonfleet dot com

Linkage
QFT

Please refrain from posting image directly into thread.Applebabe

Raphael Scoria
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:15:00 - [1037]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Thanks for keeping the feedback largely constructive so far. As stated in the original blog it is trivial for us to us to change the numbers and we expected this to happen based on the next round of feedback which is happening here...

{various changes]



Here's the disappointing bit. You've certainly listened to people telling you how dumb the numbers are, but you've decided to make it cheaper to hold large amounts of space instead of the original idea which was to make it more profitable to live in a smaller amount of space and pointless to waste money on huge space empires.

I wanted to see people like us, AAA, Atlas, the Drone Russians and the NC entities forced to choose a few constellations to live in and abandoning the rest. I wanted to see profitable 0.0 space drawing in new players from empire who could fit into the cracks, making this more Space Balkans Online instead of Space Empires Online.

But what you have here will generate the opposite of that. The big players will still be able to cut away space from those who can't defend their excess holdings, sure, but they'll just hold or rent it out for themselves. A prospective 0.0 alliance without moon income and cached reserves won't be up to siezing it any more than they are now.

Zahorite
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:15:00 - [1038]
 

Originally by: Equinox Daedalus
taxes.

In the world they are a way to control you, you set artifically high numbers to create/cause rabble.

then you say, oh, here you go, we have set them real small now, so that everyone will say, boy, thats not really that bad, instead of 2 bil isk, its now (insert something less) thats great, isteand of getting really forked we only get forked less. I really like that thank you.

But at the end of the day, really, once you introduce a system by which you "tax" the tax never goes away. Why should CVA and by all rights every other sov holding alliance pay CCP taxes.

Your no better than any other dictaorship or Comministic Regime in the world today. You punish excellence, harder work, and effort by rewarding those who do no want to work hard. You want the Stong to carry the weak, the weak to get whatever it is they want. Not by the strongs choice, but at the barrel of a gun. You Demand those who work hard, can sacfricie just a little sliver, as who doesn't want to help the poor, the down trodden, the weak. The sliver will only grow, until its a gaping wound bleading alliances dry.

As a Major dilpomat/person in CVA, the number of totally hilarious threats cva has recived saying we will need to adapat, will need to give up our space becuase we are the "fat" of the land. Indeed many of the alt posts here, say much they same, "stop whining", just rat more: I forsee a scorched earth policy in effect much more now than ever.

Any alliance that should just give up all its work, all its effort, simplpy becuase we worked to hard, we fought to well, to alliances who have done nothing have not dropped a drop of sweat down, is jsut comical.


I just am saddened that a game that is so focued on market pvp, combat pvp. A game that is so strong and focuses on how the "butterfly effect" can change tides, how the stong and determined can overcome the weak.is in reality a welfare state. I'm guess only now we'll need free ships for those who make less than 15 mil isk a week.


The change mentioned earlier would lower the costs for an upgradable system down to 6 million a day rather than 30 million. That is much more in line with what people were thinking would happen. Basically rather than a 900m a month price tag it's now down to 180 million. Considering that you don't need as many POS's to maintiain sov it actually balances out nicely. Of course if you want a jump bridge and a cyno jammer in a system it's going to cost you a lot more, over 1.1 billion isk a month. In a way I'm fine with that since you can lower that cost by getting rid of deathstars and cutting back to just the systems that you need a cyno jammer on. Basically the new costs are what were originally expected, although I still think they are a little bit high.

Plus I think all of these changes are really just going to reduce pvp rather than increase pvp. I'm still not happy about everything, but there is still potential and alliances aren't going to end up cutting an running to high sec now. Or at least fewer of them are. Now we just need better upgrades and some incentive for more pvp.

Professor Dumbledore
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:17:00 - [1039]
 

If you push any of these changes though in their current state or any of the "revised" states you are going to kill this game worse then Sony with its NGE. Stop this **** right ****ing now and rethink it.

TZeer
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:20:00 - [1040]
 

Originally by: Hertford
Originally by: TZeer


Now tell me why you need 160 ( actually 158 according to DOTLAN )systems to sustain your 288 real active people. That means you have less then 2 people on average in each systems...




Because currently that's how many people those systems can support in terms of a self-sufficient income.


Currently yes, not after. CCP stated around 15-20 people in an upgraded system. Thats almost 10x more. So 288/15= 19,2 systems.

So basically you could shrink you space from 160 systems and down to 20 and save x amount of POS fuel.

Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:22:00 - [1041]
 

Originally by: TZeer
Originally by: Hertford
Originally by: TZeer


Now tell me why you need 160 ( actually 158 according to DOTLAN )systems to sustain your 288 real active people. That means you have less then 2 people on average in each systems...




Because currently that's how many people those systems can support in terms of a self-sufficient income.


Currently yes, not after. CCP stated around 15-20 people in an upgraded system. Thats almost 10x more. So 288/15= 19,2 systems.

So basically you could shrink you space from 160 systems and down to 20 and save x amount of POS fuel.


Except none of the upgrades can support that many people.

Junkie Beverage
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:23:00 - [1042]
 

Originally by: Cefte
Every single system with Goonswarm sov gets scanned and run for the profitable (read, non-profession) cosmic signatures by explorers every day. That's because the position of the plex loot on the supply/demand curve makes it a worthwhile use of time: you can make more money exploring than you can running L4 missions in empire.

No-one in our space mines, because mining in our space, or, indeed, any space, is not a profitable use of time compared to drone region ratting, or running L4 missions in empire.

People don't do unprofitable things in unprofitable space. Most of 0.0 is unprofitable space completely discounting the costs to hold it, right now.

0.0 was already at a disadvantage for having to spend a proportion of its income to simply provide basic services such as stations, and for the vastly increased risk. Those costs were offset by moongold. Remove moongold: OK, fine. Increase costs to hold space massively, without increasing the time profit density of that space, and what do you get? You get *****ing, you get no influx of empire dwellers to 0.0, and you get a game filled with mission runners and a PR department that has to lie through their teeth when they make HD propaganda trailers about going into deep nullsec and finding untold riches and great risks.



Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:23:00 - [1043]
 

OK how about this - Set sov costs for systems with outposts to be much cheaper (free?) - this rewards alliances which expend billions to deploy an outpost, it'll especially help CVA and other NRDS alliances which make income from those stations and hopefully discourage switching from NRDS to NBSI as a means of keeping revenue streams within their alliance.

This of course makes outposts much more important, and therefore worth the huge amount of effort to invade and take control of.


(PS: if CCP is convinced that the new sov system is better for alliances that the old one with all that POS fueling, why not just leave the old system in place in parallel with the new one, then alliance can pick whether they want to pay cash or fuel POS's - let the market decide)






Josh Silver
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:25:00 - [1044]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie

You don't need 100 systems for 288 active people.



Yes you do.
More than that actually, the systems also need to be good belt- and location-wise.

emotua
Gallente
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:26:00 - [1045]
 

ok 1800 characters in your alliance doesn't mean 1800 people, stop reading sideways :)

Those 1800 characters boil down to 288 Real Active Real Life people!.

Hell, most of us in 0.0 need like 2 alts, and I counted 1.5 alt per main! to bring stuff from empire, run missions in empire, whatever, so we can at least pay for the exotic dancers and the quafe.

Mistres Tor
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:27:00 - [1046]
 

Second EXODUS incoming

lv4 agents in EMPIRE be ready :) I'm coming

the only big empire will be the NPC Amar Empire :D

TZeer
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:28:00 - [1047]
 

Originally by: Illectroculus Defined
OK how about this - Set sov costs for systems with outposts to be much cheaper (free?) - this rewards alliances which expend billions to deploy an outpost, it'll especially help CVA and other NRDS alliances which make income from those stations and hopefully discourage switching from NRDS to NBSI as a means of keeping revenue streams within their alliance.

This of course makes outposts much more important, and therefore worth the huge amount of effort to invade and take control of.


(PS: if CCP is convinced that the new sov system is better for alliances that the old one with all that POS fueling, why not just leave the old system in place in parallel with the new one, then alliance can pick whether they want to pay cash or fuel POS's - let the market decide)








Cause the old one let you spam cynojammers and jumpbridges with almost no extra cost.

Skilius
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:28:00 - [1048]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
bla bla bla

But on with some specific answers to the biggest concerns:

So will we look at making upkeep costs less than stated in the blog due to reasonable feedback?

Yes!

- Sovereignty Structures

The role of the Territorial Claim Unit (TCU) changed since the original figures were generated to be only a marker for sovereignty and the last thing to be removed after a system has been taken (details on this are coming soon in Abathur's next blog). This means the cost for the TCU should be reasonable in terms of upkeep and we are looking at 1 mill per day currently for that dot on the map.

The infrastructure hub is both key to strategic defence and as the base of the solar system upgrades. Here we are looking at mirroring a large starbase in equivalent operational cost so 5 million upkeep per day is more reasonable.

- Strategic Upgrades

The key upgrades here we want to force you to make economic decisions over are naturally the jump bridges and cynosural jammer use. The presence of these two has radical effects on the 'landscape' generally.

We are looking at no upkeep cost on either of the construction arrays and cynosural field generators and then maintain significant costs the cynosural jammer and jump bridges.



Hopefully that answers some concerns on the upkeep fees and that we are looking at the figures and open to adjusting them.

As for the other issues raised, we are looking at the issues around the resource sites and things like knowing if they are in use or not and will shed more light on the asteroid belt upgrades which are not the ordinary gravimetric sites FYI some of you are mentioning Wink

Keep the constructive feedback coming and we'll update the original blog monday or tuesday with new figures and updates and additional comments to clear some confusion up.



Questions posted earlier that after 35 pages CCP FAILED to adress soo I'll answer

Originally by: Nyphur
(...)
1) What happened to the following goals of the new sov system, as stated in previous devlogs?

- "The more space you spread your ‘Dominion' across, the more expensive it will become to maintain."

- "We do not want to see alliances holding space simply for the sake of holding it or just making their color on the map bigger."

- "We want to see alliances properly utilizing their space and providing more places for their members to generate income."

2) What happened to small entities being able to claim space?

3) What happened to the original plan of replacing the current three-tiered sov system with a simpler, single-tier system? The proposed system here has five tiers.

4) With the cost reductions you just mentioned, what's to stop large entities claiming and using the same amount of space and it just being business as usual?

5) Why is 0.0 not more profitable than level 4 missions, even after the upgrades?

6) The new systems will sustain 10-15 pilots when fully upgraded.


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We thank you for the constructive feedback and euros you pay every month. We will look in to it and bla bla bla keep playing bla bla bla euros euros euros bla bla bla we also take dollars!!!!
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Hope it was constructive enought and hope to see some really honest replys to those clear answers!

Yafn
Robbing You of Your Space Pixels
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:29:00 - [1049]
 

Originally by: Khefron
if we're paying billions for our jump bridges, will we at least no longer have to keep the damned things loaded with ozone?


Keep Quoting this.

Mrs Trzzbk
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.07 19:30:00 - [1050]
 

This thread is just helping confirm that 90% of the people who visit this forum have no grasp of how 0.0 actually works. That includes CCP.


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