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Ex Mudder
Gallente
Oberon Incorporated
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:52:00 - [391]
 

What a load of horse****, CCP.

Plonk

3x cancelled accounts

Enjoy

Mskpath3
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:54:00 - [392]
 

Originally by: rubico1337

dont think that because you(im speaking in generalities) are in a big alliance in 0.0 that your somehow entitled or better than everyone else, a dont that somehow everyone who thinks differently is a carebear



My friend, it is YOU who is talking about entitlement. I am saying, 0.0 alliances that manage huge logistics chains and mount massive defensive operations don't spring out of holes in the ground. They come from individual effort and dedication. Nothing is handed to you. You go out and get it.

What I was implying was that empire people seem to think that the vast tracts of 0.0 were just magicked into the hands of neanderthal pvpers. Otherwise, they would surely be in your worthy and smart hands, right?


Originally by: rubico1337
Originally by: Mskpath3

0.0 is pure egalitarianism. Everyone has an equal chance. You want to get in? Make a play for it. Happens all the time.



no it isnt. vast swaths of 0.0 are controlled by deathstar spamming, cynojamming. jumpportal generating alliances that do so just because it costs pennies in POS fuel and it makes their e-peens bigger. this the powers that be stay the powers that be because the defender has an advantage. not because of "numbers and effort"



Yes, it surely is. YOU can do these things, too. Egalitarianism doesn't mean "forced fairness", like Affirmative Action. It means "fair" in which all parties involved operate under exactly the same rule set, with exactly the same available skills and oppurtunities. You can go build a BS/dread fleet and take some space. You can go the diplomatic route and get a foot in the door as a renter or pet, then prove yourself and get elevated to be a real space-holder. Just like all the others have done.

But what you want is a mechanism that allows you to do this without putting in the mountain of effort. And in any mechanic where effort prevails, big/dedicated/organized is always going to annihilate small/idealistic/naive.

hathgarrr
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:56:00 - [393]
 

Originally by: rubico1337

no it isnt. vast swaths of 0.0 are controlled by deathstar spamming, cynojamming. jumpportal generating alliances that do so jsut because it costs pennies in POS fuel and it makes thier e-peens bigger. this the powers that be stay the powers that be



your pretty clueless...

Think about this.. you have a 5000 man corp/alliance right? you have to defend that so you spread out to give yourself a buffer zone. You also need to provide this 5000 man corp/alliance area to be able to rat/mine etc.. you seriously think that even if only 1/4 of them are online or active at any one time can support themselves in just a few systems? Most systems in 0.0 can hardly handle 1 person ratting at any one time ..let alone mining (even if it was worth it) 3-4 people can completely strip mine a system in a few hour or a day or two.

So in the end run you say it is because of Epeen size.. The truth of the matter is for security and the fact that 0.0 sucks so hard for making isk the larger the corp/alliance the more area they are FORCED to take. It shure would be nice if 50-100 people could make a living in just one system.. (Like L4 mish runner systems) But to have that happen CCP would have to make some big changes.. Oh wait.. they already promised that and seem to be cascade failing.

Hoodat Bee
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:56:00 - [394]
 

A smaller alliance probably wouldn't need an advanced logistics network (12.5mil) because, after all, who the hell are they gonna link jump bridges to? I also really doubt they'll need a cyno jammer (25mil) because they won't be worth taking out.

Then there's the cyno navigation system (4mil) which gives you a cyno generator -- valuable for a group that has a ton of caps moving in and out, but for a small alliance unnecessary. And supercapital construction facilities (1mil)? If you don't want to/can't build supercaps, you don't need to set it up.

So much for the strategic upgrades for the little guys.

That leaves you with the infrastructure hub (10mil) which has some value. Maybe not 300mil a month, but that'd be pretty easy to assess.

So if you're a small alliance, you'd only need to cover the cost of a territorial claim unit -- 600mil a month. That's more than reasonable.


Deldrac
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:56:00 - [395]
 

Originally by: Korodan
Edited by: Korodan on 07/11/2009 05:52:36
Edited by: Korodan on 07/11/2009 05:51:45
Originally by: Normin Bates
More bloated Alliance tears! Keep 'em coming! Laughing

Please CCP....Don't let the tears from these Alliances with hundreds of unused systems sway your objective. Let them see what they can make of it and then adjust...if needed. If they rage-quit then so be it.

Wahhhhh, we can't keep our 57 systems that we never use! Too funny! LaughingLaughingLaughingRolling Eyes




1/10, too obvious. Work on your trolling son.

edit: the smilies are what really give it away, use less next time.

edit again: post with your main.


Smilies are discrete, you use fewer not less.

The post you quote is still a terrible post ofc.

Alice Teal
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:58:00 - [396]
 

Originally by: Mskpath3

If you have a 100 man alliance, a.) 10-20 of them will be online on average, b.) since this is some new endeavor for you, they will have no combat experience and be reluctant to take losses so getting x's will be hard, and most importantly c.) they are going to get massacred by even just the for-lulz 30 man roaming hac fleets, let alone the inevitable 100+ man CTA battleship fleet that will show up within a day or two if you show -any- potential for giving kills.


Yeah, tbh when I wrote that I was thinking (not less than 200-300, mmkay?), but I didn't want to be accused of proposing a "not small" alliance. I agree with everything else in your post, except the part about popping assets. I think the point of Dominion was supposed to be to link a significant increase in resource density to sov to a system...so that what your alliance is fighting for is their awesome rats/kickass ores...and whereas before the burden of sitting around was on the defender, now it's on the attacker. You'll have to camp your sov jammers for 24hrs to make sure they don't get blown by the defenders.

Bobby Atlas
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:00:00 - [397]
 

Originally by: DaReaper
ok, lets do some math...

Claim hub 20m a day
industrial hub 10m a day

lets add...

super cap 1m a day
cyno gen 4m a day
jump bridge 12.5m a day
cyno jammer 25m a day.

now not all systems will be cyno jammed, or have a jb or a cyno gen, or make super caps. But for arguments sake we will have all.

ok, now for a non faction DS pos your are paying (based on jita prices):

Enriched uranium: (4 units and hour X 24 hours X 30 days) @ 5300 = 26.8m isk (rounded up)
Oxygen: (25 x 24 x 30) 1800 x 109 = 2m isk a month
Mech parts: (5 x 24 x 30) 3600 x 620 = 2.3m
coolant: (8 x 24 x 30) 5760 x 1090 = 6.3m
robotics: (1 x 24 x 30) 720 x 6875 = 5m
isotopes: (450 x 24 x 30) 324000 x 350 113.4m
ozone: (150 x 24 x 30) 108000 x 250 = 27m
water: (150 x 24 x30) 108000 x 23 = 2.5m

total: 185m isk a month in fuel

Now the standard is 5 DS's for a system. or im assuming, at least for stations its 5. so...

925m isk a month. Now we add in the jammer pos, and a brdige pos so 2 more 1.2b

So technically the increase is not that much. And with prices fluctuating, well.. basicly it looks to be about the price of having 14 faction sov benifites pos'. It really is not that undo able. But yea it should be less cost.


The majority of space holding alliances do not have 10 or 14 towers let alone faction towers, per system. In today's eve outside of a major conflict zone, most alliances have 5 or fewer towers in an outpost system, as for non-outpost systems these are often claimed on a corporation level with personal small/medium towers for other purposes such as a corporation or corporation member ratting/plexing/mining niche. These personal/corporation towers attribute most of the claim sprawl by major alliances, which are not actually a direct goal of the alliance itself just a natural state of settlement over time for said niche personal/corporation uses.

rubico1337
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:03:00 - [398]
 

Originally by: Mskpath3


Yes, it surely is. YOU can do these things, too. Egalitarianism doesn't mean "forced fairness", like Affirmative Action. It means "fair" in which all parties involved operate under exactly the same rule set, with exactly the same available skills and oppurtunities. You can go build a BS/dread fleet and take some space.


yes, because when trying to take systems the attacker can also jumpbridge into that system and prevent defending caps from coming in. at very little cost. just like the defenders can

oh wai..
Rolling Eyes

Mskpath3
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:04:00 - [399]
 

Edited by: Mskpath3 on 07/11/2009 06:10:38
Originally by: Alice Teal
You'll have to camp your sov jammers for 24hrs to make sure they don't get blown by the defenders.


True enough. But the pvp types will quite willingly do this periodically when they know they're dealing with a group of guys who will almost certainly give up after the first try because they got camped into a station/pos for 24 hours and possibly even lost an expensive ship.

Rumor has it that the time to get the sov-stealer modules online has been drastically cut recently, as well. So even if you got your foot in the door, a single all-day op for an alliance can toss you out. Even if they just cleaned house on weekends, that'll be enough to discourage risk-averse carebears from really accomplishing much.

There's also a bit of an X factor here. Big space holders are going to be righteously ****ed off about everything for quite some time, so expect extreme prejudice to be exercised upon those trying to worm their way in :)


Deldrac
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:04:00 - [400]
 

Originally by: Hoodat Bee

So if you're a small alliance, you'd only need to cover the cost of a territorial claim unit -- 600mil a month. That's more than reasonable.



The design of space means it is only really defendable by constellation - you need to be able to camp a choke point, and you need to be able to spot incoming gangs before they reach your ratting systems (plus without the upgrades what are your few hundred members going to do in a single -0.2 system producing trivial wealth compared to the empire level 4s they just left behind).

So we're actually looking at a minimum 3 billion a month, plus tribute to the nearest power bloc who will otherwise be happy to give their cap fleet a workout since you can't be arsed to cyno-jam your systems, and they'll make a small but significant profit salvaging and selling your junk in the process.


Hey, this is more stuff people commenting would know if they had ever lived in 0.0.

Da Maddness
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:07:00 - [401]
 

Originally by: Bobby Atlas
CCP, you have lost the plot, truly and utterly ******ed.

Lets rehash a few things
- Instead of actually fixing titans and assigning them a role, CCP replaces it with a poorly conceived "death ray". However, it was received mildly accepted after some player review but then CCP decides to give everyone supercaps on sisi which was a brilliant idea and garnered mountains of invaluable feedback (read: sarcasm Rolling Eyes)... Which resulted in the "death ray" getting nerfed to a useless state of 10 minute rof, making titans all but relegated to a POS ornament - contrary to CCP own stated intentions at fan fest to see titans used on grid but not have an instant "i own grid" button. The expectation that people will use them "because they do 2x the turret damage of a dread" is short sighted at best, considering most titan holding alliances can already field 50-100+ dreads.

- Instead of actually fixing highend passive income, ccp again chooses a poorly conceived solution that redistributes the passive income across more moons. This is but a temporary solution and 0.0 entities will simply start to react / hoard larger quantities of intermediate moons to generate roughly the same relative amount of passive income.

- Instead of actually fixing the long standing issue of poorly distributed and static true sec value of systems, ccp wimps out and decides to not touch the true sec values cause of coding complexities, similar notes are made regarding why belts will not be added to systems. Instead a system is created where by infrastructure must first be planted and upgraded to add an array of cosmic signatures that provide various additional resources. This system as it turns out through testing is not nearly as profitable nor as accommodating to the amount of players as CCP indicated it would be at fan fest, the tie in to sov mechanics, especially the loss of such upgrades when sov is lost in a system, will make upgrades a ******ed and convoluted concept.

- Dominion is supposed to make 0.0 access for smaller entities easier, this could not be further from the truth. To hold 0.0 is now going to be exceedingly cost prohibitive, if a smaller entity wants to break into 0.0 they need to generate large amounts of initial capital before they can even begin the conquest of space. The actual killer on the whole thing will be the critical mass point that makes it nearly impossible for most smaller entities; that is actually having to engage in a sov war to take some 0.0 space, the costs of a war +initial costs of sov claiming will make it so cost prohibitive that most entities are just not going to bother.

- Alliances that are based further out into 0.0 such as branch and omist for instance, are penalized much more than alliances sitting on the border of empire. CCP has been playing this whole "Balance everything" card for the last 2 months with ships, modules and skills but has turned a blind eye to the concept of distance between far out 0.0 regions and empire. For an alliance living in branch or omist, to run a JB network to empire you are talking 10bn+ a month, that is absolutely ******ed and exceedingly unbalanced.

.... I could keep going but i think the point has been made ... dominion is going to be a cluster * inappropriate text removed - CCP Ildoge, well done CCP.


I endorse this product and/or service

Mskpath3
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:09:00 - [402]
 

Originally by: rubico1337

yes, because when trying to take systems the attacker can also jumpbridge into that system and prevent defending caps from coming in. at very little cost. just like the defenders can



You are incredibly adroit at avoiding the very obvious point. Cheers on that.

This is not an argument about tactics or offense vs. defense. This is about the high-level strategy of taking and holding space. Everyone has equal oppurtunity there, and space changes hands plenty because of it. Seriously. The existing alliances were not simply handed outposts and entire regions via sorcery. They do not change ownership right this very day because of GM intervention. Truly.

You too, can do this. There's no piece of code in the Eve codebase that specifically prevents you from mounting a massive military-industrial-diplomatic effort to go throw someone out and take their sh-t.

hathgarrr
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:10:00 - [403]
 

Originally by: Hoodat Bee
A smaller alliance probably wouldn't need an advanced logistics network (12.5mil) because, after all, who the hell are they gonna link jump bridges to? I also really doubt they'll need a cyno jammer (25mil) because they won't be worth taking out.

Then there's the cyno navigation system (4mil) which gives you a cyno generator -- valuable for a group that has a ton of caps moving in and out, but for a small alliance unnecessary. And supercapital construction facilities (1mil)? If you don't want to/can't build supercaps, you don't need to set it up.

So much for the strategic upgrades for the little guys.

That leaves you with the infrastructure hub (10mil) which has some value. Maybe not 300mil a month, but that'd be pretty easy to assess.

So if you're a small alliance, you'd only need to cover the cost of a territorial claim unit -- 600mil a month. That's more than reasonable.




Without Cyno jam etc frankly your small alliance/corp etc isn't going to last long in 0.0 not unless you have some really good friends and some deep pockets.
I challenge any small alliance to come out and try it . Would result in some good kill mails and that small alliance quickly heading back to high sec. But kill mails are always appreciated... Then again.. without a decent defense fleet your still going to become targets for anyone larger or anyone who just wants to get into a fight.

Just a note.. even if none of the huge alliances were to kick your teeth in just for the entertainment you would get targeted by hoards of pvp'rs looking for a fight..

The main problem with eve i see is too many people are blue to each other. THAT is the real problem. it means less pvp prices of mins go down hence people build less ships etc etc etc.. What this game needs is less naps and more pew pew. But how are people going to pay for such things like new ships and mods etc with these proposed changes ?


Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:11:00 - [404]
 

Okay I've read much of this thread.

We are a small alliance, we previously did have 2 systems in Omist before Atlas took it. We currently hang out in Providence some when not fighting our current war. We have also been optimist about perhaps getting a system or two come Dominion.

The cost next to the revenue generated by a system is far out of whack in this proposal.

I agree with many that the true sec status of a system needs to be taken into account in the cost ratio.

Something like this as a basic idea:

(b/(1+(1 + t)))= f

b=base cost
t=true sec
f=final cost

So in this formula a true sec of -1.0 would mean that it costs as you outlay. A true sec of -.5 would cost 200 million if you just had the sov thing up and no hub.

Some other suggestions:

Double the number of belts in all 0.0 systems...static belts that is. No upgrade required.

Then here are some suggested changes:

Pirate Magnets - Doubles the number of guaranteed anomalies in the system per level + reduces by 20% per level respawn timers of belt rats.

Ore Prospecting Array - Double the number of belts in a system per level. (not hidden belts just static belts).
The other three are okay as they seem written, but without more belts you can't support the population levels you are seeking.

If you can't do something along those lines then you need to significantly reduce costs to attract small alliances. I'd look at reducing the cost to around the fuel for 2 large towers per month. I think that would be a more attainable and attractive cost, which is only 40% of what you suggest.

Deldrac
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:12:00 - [405]
 

Also, regarding the 'needing a 24 hour op to kill/gain sov so big alliances won't be easily able to squash little guys' issue.

It is worth remembering that to take Delve, we had to trap the Bob/Kenny/Beaver/Kenny/IT cap fleet into the pr-8ca station and keep the system camped 24 hours a day for a whole month.

The major alliances can do this **** because of numbers and global timezone coverage.

Single timezone social alliances formed to give each other someone to talk to on lvl 4 mission grinds really cannot.

How are new people getting into 0.0 again?

gambrinous
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:14:00 - [406]
 

Originally by: Normin Bates
More bloated Alliance tears! Keep 'em coming! Laughing

Please CCP....Don't let the tears from these Alliances with hundreds of unused systems sway your objective. Let them see what they can make of it and then adjust...if needed. If they rage-quit then so be it.

Wahhhhh, we can't keep our 57 systems that we never use! Too funny! LaughingLaughingLaughingRolling Eyes




1. noone is crying because they won't have a ticker in all 57 sys anymore
2. the only reason they do currently is because it's required for the current sov mechanics
3. not having a sov ticker in all 57 systems will not affect control of those 57 sys
4. they are used, try exploring, you will likely visit all 57 in a night

Zastrow
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:23:00 - [407]
 

big alliances being able to beat up small alliances is a stupid topic and not relevant to the discussion of how awful these sov changes are

c0rn1
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:23:00 - [408]
 

Edited by: c0rn1 on 07/11/2009 06:25:00
Look at all these armchair generals Laughing

Sitting there in their mission ship in empire and trying to figure out 0.0. None of the people who claim the changes valid don't even have the slightest clue what kind of an logistical overhead 0.0 already creates.

Some say: Oh, look, ma, it's only 7 mil / day per member in a 10 ppl system!
I say: Oh look, please come along and collect those 7 mil/day from each of the 2k+ people sitting here and have that cash ready every 14 days. And since you're at it, please punish all members who don't rat at least for their 7 mil/each day. Make a "Stop" sign if people wanna group together and head out for PvP.
And the next CTA will be called with the sidenote that only players will be allowed to join who already made their fair contribution to the alliance today already.
And then you can take care of the fuel logistics for all towers and resupply of gear and ships and besides it on the capital production which is a time cruncher as well in 0.0.

It all doesn't take any time to do. It's only the 7M / day to keep the sov up.

GUYS, YOU CANT JUST PICK 1 THING OUT AND BASE AN ARGUMENT ON IT.

these prices would quadruple the effort you have to do to keep 0.0 territory and noone in the large alliance can be arsed to do this. I play this game for PvP not carebearing.
What is in your damn mind? The cutting down on the dysp and prom income already will cripple a good amount of income. The changes proposed by CCP won't even slightly make up for it and it is all a HUGE timesink. If I have to rat/mine 40h a month only to pay for upkeep, fuel and my little losses on ships, I will rather pack my suitcases and just move to NPC 0.0.
and it's not only the ingame tools that eat up time. As if you didn't know it yet, spreadsheets don't grow on trees. Internal communication isn't something that just happens in no amount of time. It all is work, work, work.
Grind through everything and as a gift of CCP I get another additional grind for BS cash?

I proposed a nice system which is far more fair for it to go.
=> http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1210267&page=7#205

Check it. It's more fair and interesting for every alliance size as well. The formula can be tweaked easily but it gives you the raw idea what I'd rather like to see than a stupid one-sided and an absolute lack of any creativity sort of approach CCP did.

cheers

c0rn1


Graalum
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:26:00 - [409]
 

Edited by: Graalum on 07/11/2009 06:49:27
Edited by: Graalum on 07/11/2009 06:49:02
Originally by: d4shing
So I looked at some #s on DOTLAN and here's what I came up with:

Total # of Sov-Claimable Systems: 2192
# held by 10 largest alliances: 1194, or 54%

Total # of Sov-holding alliances: 82
Total # of toons in these alliances: 69,234
Total # of toons in the largest 10 alliances: 23,220, or 33%

Average # of alliance members per system: 103
But, in the 10 largest alliances, they have an average of 20 people per system.

So, in response to those people complaining that they'll never cram 100 people into a system, realize that the average sov-holding alliance already does.



pro-tip: the patch isn't going to make us control any less space.

Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:30:00 - [410]
 

Originally by: c0rn1
Edited by: c0rn1 on 07/11/2009 06:25:00
Look at all these armchair generals Laughing

Sitting there in their mission ship in empire and trying to figure out 0.0. None of the people who claim the changes valid don't even have the slightest clue what kind of an logistical overhead 0.0 already creates.

Some say: Oh, look, ma, it's only 7 mil / day per member in a 10 ppl system!
I say: Oh look, please come along and collect those 7 mil/day from each of the 2k+ people sitting here and have that cash ready every 14 days. And since you're at it, please punish all members who don't rat at least for their 7 mil/each day. Make a "Stop" sign if people wanna group together and head out for PvP.
And the next CTA will be called with the sidenote that only players will be allowed to join who already made their fair contribution to the alliance today already.
And then you can take care of the fuel logistics for all towers and resupply of gear and ships and besides it on the capital production which is a time cruncher as well in 0.0.

It all doesn't take any time to do. It's only the 7M / day to keep the sov up.

GUYS, YOU CANT JUST PICK 1 THING OUT AND BASE AN ARGUMENT ON IT.

these prices would quadruple the effort you have to do to keep 0.0 territory and noone in the large alliance can be arsed to do this. I play this game for PvP not carebearing.
What is in your damn mind? The cutting down on the dysp and prom income already will cripple a good amount of income. The changes proposed by CCP won't even slightly make up for it and it is all a HUGE timesink. If I have to rat/mine 40h a month only to pay for upkeep, fuel and my little losses on ships, I will rather pack my suitcases and just move to NPC 0.0.
and it's not only the ingame tools that eat up time. As if you didn't know it yet, spreadsheets don't grow on trees. Internal communication isn't something that just happens in no amount of time. It all is work, work, work.
Grind through everything and as a gift of CCP I get another additional grind for BS cash?

cheers

c0rn1




Another unironically good post by a bitter enemy, emptyquoting this ****.

Cire XIII
Caldari
Ever Flow
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:32:00 - [411]
 

Operation distribute market share by Christmas... in progress...

Graalum
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:35:00 - [412]
 

Edited by: Graalum on 07/11/2009 06:50:10
Originally by: Bobby Atlas
Edited by: Bobby Atlas on 07/11/2009 04:37:39
Finally, if you think any current system can sustain 100 people in it you are out to lunch, please point me to this solar system in 0.0 cause I have yet to find one.


i can name some, and they all have l4 mission agents Laughing

Facepalm
Amarr
Battlestars
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:35:00 - [413]
 

Edited by: Facepalm on 07/11/2009 06:37:19
Hate it. Costs are way too high. Rewards suck. Plus what everyone else said here. Even if you halved costs, which is probably the plan on the books anyway ("ooh look guys, it's not as bad as you thought..." masses rejoice??), it would still be the suck. And yes, before anyone asks, I mad.

Shatcan this idea and bring in the next pl0x. Set the guy who came up with this idea on fire too.

Zastrow
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:36:00 - [414]
 

Every time I re-read this dev blog I wonder if anyone heard a word I said at the CSM summit.

ian666
Minmatar
Virtual Democracy
C0VEN
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:38:00 - [415]
 

Edited by: ian666 on 07/11/2009 06:43:09

Great changes, prices are good.

One last thing CCP - block usage of Jump Bridges by Freighters and Jump Freighters (besides we have enought wormholes 0.0 <=> hisec). Bring back good old player convoys and force people to do something else than solo killing rats 24/7. Make them move their own stuff by themselves more frequently - transport ships + jump bridges for better speed or freighter convoy's for corp things.


Nicolas Nye
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:38:00 - [416]
 

Edited by: Nicolas Nye on 07/11/2009 06:40:54
Originally by: Facepalm
Hate it. Costs are way too high. Rewards suck. Plus what everyone else said here. Even if you halved costs, which is probably the plan on the books anyway ("ooh look guys, it's not as bad as you thought..." masses rejoice?) And yes, before anyone asks, I mad.

Shatcan this idea and bring in the next pl0x. Set the guy who came up with this idea on fire too.


If you want standings for living in empire, please contact me in-game. For a mere 300mil you can be blue to everyone in Amarr and Jita and carebear to your heart's content. If you want to contract me your stuff I will even help you jump it down because I am such a nice guy like that.

edit: offer is open to you too korodan. Will cost an extra 200mil because of all the anti-goon wardecs but I'll cover that second 100mil for you with my connections, so only need to send me 400mil.

Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:39:00 - [417]
 

Originally by: Facepalm
Edited by: Facepalm on 07/11/2009 06:37:19Shatcan this idea and bring in the next pl0x. Set the guy who came up with this idea on fire too.


Setting him on fire would be too kind.

Kanatta Jing
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:40:00 - [418]
 

Edited by: Kanatta Jing on 07/11/2009 06:57:04
Originally by: Graalum
Originally by: Kanatta Jing
Before you emo quit I'm going to do the unthinkable.

Best guesses are that Technetium is the new Dysprosium and will make about as much per moon.

Now you can wage a horrible brutal war for a few months while waiting for the T2 production chain to be finally fixed and for the system upgrades to be buffed sufficiently.

In the mean time I can has your space right?


stealth geminate boost right here


and yes, i think everyone with a functioning pulse has their eyes on techn moons


It would be a war with alliances as casualties.

Anyway, the real sucky thing is that the upgrades are low-balled, or are being delivered pre-nerfed.

3 million bounty rats and magic ores that are 50% denser then their +10% yield cousins, is what we needed, instead we get anomaly catchers.

The best anomaly I have encountered pays 20 million in bounties. (Sansha Havens? the one with the rings of shield hardeners) And if all ten (in a maxed system) where those that would be 200 million a day... And that would pay off a tricked out system with a Tax rate of 36.25%

Except some anomalies come in at just over a million in bounties.

Maybe if you spiked the Corp tax to 100% and did the Anomalies right after down time and then dropped to a reasonable 20% or so when you was done?

We finally have enough info to get an idea as to what we're looking at but I don't think we have nearly enough information to know what we're really looking at here.

Zastrow
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:41:00 - [419]
 

Originally by: ian666
Edited by: ian666 on 07/11/2009 06:38:50
Great changes, prices are good.

One last thing CCP - block usage of Jump Bridges by Freighters and Jump Freighters. Bring back good old player convoys and force people to do something else than solo killing rats 24/7. Make them move their own stuff by themselves more frequently - transport ships + jump bridges for better speed or freighter convoy's for corp things.


Let's be honest here. Are you planning on living in 0.0 after reading this dev blog? If so, why? If not, why not?


Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2009.11.07 06:42:00 - [420]
 

Trying to get more new alliances into 0.0 and make it more dynamic?

Not with those costs. LOL
Those costs only favours the old guys with already deep pockets.

But on the other hand, I like for example that the jump bridges are expensive since they are so powerful and giving a really huge advantage.

It is a dilemma - making prices high enough for important things and at the same time not to boost hugely the already powerful alliances over newcommers. Time will tell how this will go.

But what I didn't understand exactly - what is sov for? Is it required for those strategic upgrades? Or what use does it have (except maybe bragging rights)?


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