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Alice Teal
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:08:00 - [361]
 

This is a terrible travesty, and I hope the other small alliances who want to hang out in 0.0 realize how badly we've just been screwed. (From your posts, it doesn't seem like you do).

Let's paint the picture:

1.The Goons and AAA and Atlas and NC, after they stop pointing out how stupid this is, will consolidate to a few sov systems per region. These will get strategic upgrades only. They no longer have to hold constellations to build supercaps...and can retake stations when necessary (easier than POS war anyway).

2.Great! I'm a small alliance with a carebear and pvp base and 5 billion to spare! Let's move into Delve! I anchor my FLAG in C3N-3S and somehow manage to quickly take the outpost. C3N has a lot of gates to run away in case of blobs, has decent but not great sec, so Goonies have almost abandoned it, and I like the scenery. I await the Goonswarm response...nothing. I pay about 1 billion for the first 2 weeks and start the upgrade process, and my alliance mates and I start ratting and mining and having a jolly time.

3. 2 weeks have passed. I've upgraded the poo out of C3N. I just paid the bill for the next 2 weeks! I even expanded to another system, LWX. Maybe I can build an outpost there someday! Suddenly I get a convo invite. It's the Mittani, diplomat for the goons.

The Mittani: Hey little carebear/pvp alliance. I see you moved into some Delve space we hadn't claimed.

Jolly Leader: Oh yeah, it's nice that we can all benefit from 0.0 now!!! :):):)

Mitt: Yeah, that's nice. Look, you're going to start paying us 5 billion a month. I know you just paid the next 2 weeks rent and have spent 4 billion and all that activity time on upgrading your space -- you can't really afford to run away from that sort of an investment. This isn't negotiable. I'll have you sov jammed within the hour and wiped out in 24 hours with a fleet of 300 unless my wallet goes blinky very soon. Blowing up your stuff would be super lulzy, and make my goonies happy, so unless you're making my sov costs easier to bear, you're gone.

Jolly Leader: Oh.


Let's summarize. Your alliance mates and you haven't been making any more money the last two weeks than you did in empire. In fact, you discover that you've been making a lot less dodging roaming gangs and finding good sites and rat spawns. Your cash reserves have dwindled. You don't even have 5 billion anymore. If this were POS warfare, you could have quickly taken an entire constellation and maybe cynojammed and fortified...but that's simply not going to happen without 50 billion to pay all the rental and upgrade costs. The 2 week rental intervals let bigger guys hit you when you're weakest financially. When your upgrades and FLAG get taken/exploded you lose a LOT. 0.0 seemed fun and adventurous before...but now you're only left asking WHY THE HELL DID I EVEN MOVE HERE?

Toman Torax
Rage For Order
Nihil-Obstat
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:08:00 - [362]
 

Good God where to even begin...

12 pages of this so far, guaranteed to be far far more as the weekend rolls on, and save for a small handful of players who clearly don't live in 0.0 or are obviously delusional, the reaction is clear and virtually unanimous.

Dominion, with the changes proposed in this blog, WILL NOT WORK - for ALL of the reasons mentioned REPEATEDLY in this ever growing thread.

When I sit here and find myself agreeing with Bobby, Goonies, et al, something is seriously wrong.

The upgrades are not good enough to sustain your vaunted "50 to 100 people per system". No way, no how - for the reasons pointed out numerous times in this thread.

CCP, I beg you, don't do this - not like this, at least. Many many people have posted in this thread, have been playing the game a good long time, and know this game pretty well. These people pay your salaries. Ask yourselves this one question: Why are THIS many people having an almost unanimously BAD reaction to these changes?

Rethink this. Postpone it if you have to. But CERTAINLY don't roll out Dominion with those changes in that blog.

rubico1337
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:10:00 - [363]
 

Originally by: Zastrow

this is the same reaction everyone is having, and for good reason. now contribute to the thread or stop ****ing posting


contribute? i love how goons are ****ting all over this thread. screaming down things that you see as a threat.

Originally by: The Mittani

more words go here about how this is dumb and how we're going to have to bring out the pr flak cannons


gg goons... gg

mechtech
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:12:00 - [364]
 

Disappointed in the upgrades. We need cool, unique upgrades. Maybe unlocking special agents, special belts, opening a special story, ect ect. When new players come to eve and whine about no "content" this is what they mean. To be honest, I'd like to see some more unique touches to this decidedly barren universe (WH space is nice), and Dominion/upgrades was a great opportunity to spice things up a bit.

Unfortunately we have some really uninspired upgrades in front of us as things stand.

Vadinho
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:14:00 - [365]
 

Edited by: Vadinho on 07/11/2009 05:14:33
Originally by: Avoida
Increased costs aside for the moment, current alliance territories will contract and (I'm betting) large areas of 0.0 will suddenly appear unclaimed...but that does not mean anybody will be able to claim those systems. Alliances will quickly adopt the "if we can't have it, nobody can" mentality and will easily dispatch any attempts by smaller entities to stake their claim. Existing territory holders will merely continue to utilize the now unclaimed space but forgo the claim marker.

Nothing will change basically.

You might even see an alliance anchoring GSCs near gates to act as an unofficial claim markers to let anybody thinking of attempting to stake a claim will get sent back to Empire via their medical clone.
realistically this is what is going to happen

instead of paying a billion isk per system per month fee so they can see their name on the map, most alliances are just going to not take sov in systems that arent absolutely vital for jump bridges or cyno jammers. nobody is going to want to conquer space because theres no incentive to and 0.0 combat will devolve into lowsec style turf wars with the occasional station ping-pong

great game youve got here ccp

Zareph
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:14:00 - [366]
 

Pirate Magnets - Increases rat bounties at 25% per level, up to 125%
Ore Prospecting Array - spawns hidden asteroid belts that have unique ores, these refine into unique minerals. Add these minerals to all types of blueprints
Entrapment - system now has the chance to spawn pirate capital ships. Chance to drop named/faction capital modules
Survey Networks - datacores, t2 salvage/blueprints now only drop from profession sites
Quantum Flux Generator - This one is pretty good,.

penifSMASH
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:15:00 - [367]
 

Edited by: penifSMASH on 07/11/2009 05:16:32

This is terrible. Does CCP play its own game or listen to the CSMs or any player feedback? No one ever runs anomalies or profession sites because they're worthless and you're better off ratting in belts, which is the most obvious part of 0.0 life that needs a buff but isn't getting one. There's no reason for Empire corps to test the waters in 0.0 and there's no reason for current 0.0 sov holding alliances to not just move to NPC 0.0 space.

On the other hand, CCP has managed to get nearly all 0.0 sov-holding entities, despite their historical or territorial disputes, to unite and agree on something.


Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Eve Industrial Corp
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:15:00 - [368]
 

Again I am sad to say my belief that being in 0.0 will lead to tears, drama and an empty wallet has been proven again.

I am sad because the closest people I talk to in game was actually looking forward to trying to carve out a piece of this 0.0 action for themselves and from this dev blog alone - well I'm not really looking forward to finding out if they've read it or not.

I wish CCP would decide what the 'end-game' in Eve actually is. Having been able to do level 4 missions solo in order to cover the costs of the corp while building stuff, and of course getting the tax income in all this while based in Empire means that to me having been there a few times 0.0 is for those people that thrive on ego, arguments and uber large and expensive fleet combat. Oh if you don't mind setting the alarm for ridiculous o'clock either it also helps.

So come on CCP you can tweak the numbers all you want, until you realise what you want 0.0 to be you're just keeping it dumbed down for everyone who has ever worked their butt off to get the outposts, the towers, the networks, the logistics not to mention the diplomacy and the brown-nosing, while still having to go back to empire to fill up their wallet for the next round of madness.

As a long time player, I was really hoping this patch would see 0.0 be viable again for everyone willing to put in some time and effort. Now it's a tax on top of the hot-dropped dread fleet.

I'm going to drag my feet telling the guys about this dev-blog.

Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
Discord.
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:15:00 - [369]
 

Edited by: Mahke on 07/11/2009 05:16:48
You know, looking through the thread everyone is freaking out about 2bil/month/system, but, did everyone actually stop and think that maybe, just maybe, CCP intends the cynojammer cost to be prohibitive: you won't have bridges everywhere and real most of the cost people are complaining about comes from putting down jammers.

Honestly, 30mil/system is pretty darn reasonable if even 10 people are using that system for an hour a day each if there aren't that many red roaming gangs around (so they can actually use it for that hour). Its really only the desire to keep everything jammed that makes the numbers seem insane.

edit: As a disclaimer, I don't do profession sites so have no clue what those are worth, just saying if it provides the equivalent of a solid system's ratting. If it doesn't, well, thats a problem.

Mskpath3
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:17:00 - [370]
 

Originally by: Alice Teal

Let's paint the picture:



Your picture is overcomplicated. Carebear alliance stealth anchors some stuff in unclaimed Delve space. Whether you declare sov or not, you will be reported in <= 2 days, and you will have a lolfleet at your door in <= 3.

rand0mch1ck
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:18:00 - [371]
 

Great.... NPC's online. Just what i wanted to do in an MMO shoot NPC's all effing day. I never wanted to PVP anyways. Sad

On the bright side i wont have to pay for the Cyno Jam upgrade in any sytems cuz no ones gonna have time to have fights any more. Evil or Very Mad

rubico1337
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:20:00 - [372]
 

Originally by: Mskpath3
Originally by: rubico1337
. smaller alliances will be able to capitalize on these less rare moons


No, they won't because the big alliances are still going to be there. They're just going to end up not claiming sov in many systems. They will simply maintain military presence without the sov. Small alliances will get curbstomped all the same.



how would you propose letting smaller alliances into 0.0 then? there is no real way to make up for numbers. if you allow tons of defensive upgrades at low cost to protect the small allaicnes you have the cynojammed naptrain that doesnt allow any non-established alliance in. if you hypothetically allow no defensive upgrades then you have what you are describing.

main thing i see as a step in the right direction is the high cost of jump bridges. if you want a jumpbrige chain you better damn well know it will be worth it. and be careful planning it out.

this will effectively make space bigger, less jumpbridges mean youll actually have to use stargates occasionally. which will restrict the area of influence of the bigger allainces

Alice Teal
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:20:00 - [373]
 

Originally by: Mskpath3
Originally by: Alice Teal

Let's paint the picture:



Your picture is overcomplicated. Carebear alliance stealth anchors some stuff in unclaimed Delve space. Whether you declare sov or not, you will be reported in <= 2 days, and you will have a lolfleet at your door in <= 3.


I know. I was trying to point out to the few people who think these changes will allow them to move into 0.0 how delusional they're being. They must be thinking "oh, it won't be a big deal to throw down a few FLAGs," so I'm trying to help them understand why that won't matter.

John MacCoy
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:20:00 - [374]
 

I think we need to change the name of the game to Accounting and Realestate Online.

No way in hell is this going to make small alliances come out to 0.0, especially if the larger alliances are gonna have trouble paying it. Cut the cost to at least 25% and then we'll talk.

Mskpath3
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:24:00 - [375]
 

Edited by: Mskpath3 on 07/11/2009 05:26:11
Originally by: rubico1337

how would you propose letting smaller alliances into 0.0 then? there is no real way to make up for numbers.


You answered your own question. There literally is no substitute for numbers and effort. Maybe people who live in empire think 0.0 alliance are all just a bunch of mouth-breathing pirates. But the logistics and management of running a full-sized 0.0 alliance are astounding. And the dedication required to defend it equally so.

All the mechanics in the world that aren't flat out "you can't shoot people in 0.0" are going to change that, ever. Anything your happy happy carebear alliance (and by you, I'm speaking in generalities) is going to do, already IS being done way better, at way bigger scale by the big boys in 0.0. Until you become better at everything, you will lose.

0.0 is pure egalitarianism. Everyone has an equal chance. You want to get in? Make a play for it. Happens all the time.

Kambo
Hole Diggers
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:29:00 - [376]
 

Edited by: Kambo on 07/11/2009 05:37:22
Simple fact is... that's bad.

Combat sites need to to be improved alot if you want a system to cover for the sov costs AND pay the bills for pilots using it.

and dont screw up the drone lands have mercy. We dont got bounties and well no DED plexes aswell as mag sites.

I'm in full support of dismising/changing/postponing the expansion if that dev blog holds your true intentions of the SOV change.

EDIT > A good prespective to start looking at 0.0 is that it is a PVP arena and not as much as cash grining. Most ppl go out in lawless space to have fun blowing other ppl's ships up, not mindlesly grining belt rats to get the infrastructure up. The less time we have to spend ratting in a belt the more we can go out and either contest eachothers sov or go hulk fishin. There's hardly anything more fun then 2 hostile roaming gangs crossing their paths in the depths of 0.0. Having most of the alliance members tied up in the the belts ratting or mining is hardly what you should be aiming at.

penifSMASH
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:30:00 - [377]
 

Originally by: rubico1337
Originally by: ElvenLord


On the other hand, if you are a smaller empire alliance with a desire to go live in 0.0 you dont even have those moons. All you can hope for as starter capital is your members donations, and that can take you to a point. If space you take can not support both you as a member and you as a corporation/alliance then its not worth taking it and paying for it.


with current t2 production i woudl agree. but with the re-balancing of components there will be several different type of moons that give a decent profit, rather than one or two making insane ammnts of isk. smaller alliances will be able to capitalize on these less rare moons


Is this a troll or are you serious?

Do you really think large alliances won't just take those moons, regardless of who has sov in the system? As an example, Solar Fleet, an alliance in the ass-end of the Drone Regions, has r64 moons on the other side of the map in Aridia. And that won't change after Dominion.

hathgarrr
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:31:00 - [378]
 


Well CCP you sure do not know how to disappoint the pessimist inside of me

Just in case you need a definition.. (you seem to have the perpetual need to have everything explained to you)

Pessimism, from the Latin pessimus (worst), is a state of mind which negatively colors the perception of life, especially with regard to future events. Value judgments may vary dramatically between individuals, even when judgments of fact are undisputed. The most common example of this phenomenon is the "Is the glass half empty or half full?" situation. The degree in which situations like these are evaluated as something good or something bad can be described in terms of one's optimism or pessimism respectively. Throughout history, the pessimistic disposition has had effects on all major areas of thinking.[1]

It is going to be interesting to see what excuse's you come up with this time around.. Google Eve online Scandle for some highlights.

You promised certain things.. If this Dev blog is any indication at all of your plans then you have FAILED to come up with what you have promised. IE your in breach of contract. Not only a written contract (blog posts,forums posts) but verbal (statements made at Fan fest)..

Now i can see making alliances fork out good isk for sov.. (even though it makes no bloody sense.. You OWN the system why the hell do you need to pay for the privilege ?) .. But that aside 0.0 has NEVER been a place to actually make isk.. Not for 99.999% of the people who are flying around in expensive ships blowing each other up. 0.0 Never has been able to compete on a isk/risk reward basis with high sec.. You promised that with these changes it would..

Once again CCP has reaffirmed the basic principle of life.. People are stupid.

Congrats CCP

Ryixezu
Amarr
Big Shadows
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:33:00 - [379]
 

Edited by: Ryixezu on 07/11/2009 05:40:08
A couple of months ago I got some of my RL-friends to try EVE. The first thing I told them after introducing them to the game in general was that an alt really makes your life easier, mainly because your sources of income in lowsec and 0.0 aren't stellar and may end up getting disrupted at any time. If that happens it's a godsend to have a character in highsec running L4-missions.

After reading this devblog, I will continue to give the same advice to new players and our alts will still run missions in highsec.

DaReaper
Net 7
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:33:00 - [380]
 

ok, lets do some math...

Claim hub 20m a day
industrial hub 10m a day

lets add...

super cap 1m a day
cyno gen 4m a day
jump bridge 12.5m a day
cyno jammer 25m a day.

now not all systems will be cyno jammed, or have a jb or a cyno gen, or make super caps. But for arguments sake we will have all.

ok, now for a non faction DS pos your are paying (based on jita prices):

Enriched uranium: (4 units and hour X 24 hours X 30 days) @ 5300 = 26.8m isk (rounded up)
Oxygen: (25 x 24 x 30) 1800 x 109 = 2m isk a month
Mech parts: (5 x 24 x 30) 3600 x 620 = 2.3m
coolant: (8 x 24 x 30) 5760 x 1090 = 6.3m
robotics: (1 x 24 x 30) 720 x 6875 = 5m
isotopes: (450 x 24 x 30) 324000 x 350 113.4m
ozone: (150 x 24 x 30) 108000 x 250 = 27m
water: (150 x 24 x30) 108000 x 23 = 2.5m

total: 185m isk a month in fuel

Now the standard is 5 DS's for a system. or im assuming, at least for stations its 5. so...

925m isk a month. Now we add in the jammer pos, and a brdige pos so 2 more 1.2b

So technically the increase is not that much. And with prices fluctuating, well.. basicly it looks to be about the price of having 14 faction sov benifites pos'. It really is not that undo able. But yea it should be less cost.

Clavius XIV
Auctoritan Syndicate
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:34:00 - [381]
 

Originally by: rubico1337


how would you propose letting smaller alliances into 0.0 then? there is no real way to make up for numbers. if you allow tons of defensive upgrades at low cost to protect the small allaicnes you have the cynojammed naptrain that doesnt allow any non-established alliance in. if you hypothetically allow no defensive upgrades then you have what you are describing.



The way you do it is by allowing a single system *if populated* return the same sort of isk you see in level 4 mission hubs. There would then be no point in expanding beyond the space you could keep worked with your local population. (Not to mention that scanning things down is a pain, now multiply that as many people are scanning multiple signatures in the same system which may already be in use...)

You are better off just "claiming" more systems without Sov and use existing income streams rather than paying for these upgrades.

Quote:

this will effectively make space bigger, less jumpbridges mean youll actually have to use stargates occasionally. which will restrict the area of influence of the bigger allainces


Less cynodampers which are even more expensive mean that it will all be about jumpdrive range. Say hello to more jump portaled hotdrops... so much for using stargates.

Alice Teal
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:35:00 - [382]
 

Originally by: Mskpath3
...


Not quite, it is possible for CCP to allow small but well organized alliances into 0.0 in three easy steps.

1. Actually increase resource density with upgrades. More belts, better/more roids, etc. (Stop being lazy hacks.)
2. Keep cost of sovving a system very high to prevent abuse of the next point which is...
3. Allow not only cynojamming, but also "gate capship jamming" (gates jammed, caps can't go through, all else can).

As long as the small (more than a hundred though, mmkay?) alliance gets all its members to train up T1 geddons and phoons and domis, they should be fine under the coming changes. When a big guy comes to curbstomp them they only need to break the sov jamming at one point during a 24 hr cycle.

Deldrac
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:37:00 - [383]
 

Originally by: Bobby Atlas
CCP, you have lost the plot, truly and utterly ******ed.

Lets rehash a few things
- Instead of actually fixing titans and assigning them a role, CCP replaces it with a poorly conceived "death ray". However, it was received mildly accepted after some player review but then CCP decides to give everyone supercaps on sisi which was a brilliant idea and garnered mountains of invaluable feedback (read: sarcasm Rolling Eyes)... Which resulted in the "death ray" getting nerfed to a useless state of 10 minute rof, making titans all but relegated to a POS ornament - contrary to CCP own stated intentions at fan fest to see titans used on grid but not have an instant "i own grid" button. The expectation that people will use them "because they do 2x the turret damage of a dread" is short sighted at best, considering most titan holding alliances can already field 50-100+ dreads.

- Instead of actually fixing highend passive income, ccp again chooses a poorly conceived solution that redistributes the passive income across more moons. This is but a temporary solution and 0.0 entities will simply start to react / hoard larger quantities of intermediate moons to generate roughly the same relative amount of passive income.

- Instead of actually fixing the long standing issue of poorly distributed and static true sec value of systems, ccp wimps out and decides to not touch the true sec values cause of coding complexities, similar notes are made regarding why belts will not be added to systems. Instead a system is created where by infrastructure must first be planted and upgraded to add an array of cosmic signatures that provide various additional resources. This system as it turns out through testing is not nearly as profitable nor as accommodating to the amount of players as CCP indicated it would be at fan fest, the tie in to sov mechanics, especially the loss of such upgrades when sov is lost in a system, will make upgrades a ******ed and convoluted concept.

- Dominion is supposed to make 0.0 access for smaller entities easier, this could not be further from the truth. To hold 0.0 is now going to be exceedingly cost prohibitive, if a smaller entity wants to break into 0.0 they need to generate large amounts of initial capital before they can even begin the conquest of space. The actual killer on the whole thing will be the critical mass point that makes it nearly impossible for most smaller entities; that is actually having to engage in a sov war to take some 0.0 space, the costs of a war +initial costs of sov claiming will make it so cost prohibitive that most entities are just not going to bother.

- Alliances that are based further out into 0.0 such as branch and omist for instance, are penalized much more than alliances sitting on the border of empire. CCP has been playing this whole "Balance everything" card for the last 2 months with ships, modules and skills but has turned a blind eye to the concept of distance between far out 0.0 regions and empire. For an alliance living in branch or omist, to run a JB network to empire you are talking 10bn+ a month, that is absolutely ******ed and exceedingly unbalanced.

.... I could keep going but i think the point has been made ... dominion is going to be a cluster * inappropriate text removed - CCP Ildoge, well done CCP.


This needs to be empty quoted on every page.

Damn, it's like the affront to common sense that is :atlas: holding space is completely turned on it's head by one good post.

Kralin Ignatov
Gallente
Macabre Votum
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:37:00 - [384]
 

Edited by: Kralin Ignatov on 07/11/2009 05:43:04
the upgrades are way to weak Evil or Very Mad

also, i find scanning, although profitable, to be really annoying.
To be clear, stop being p***y's and actually make upgrades worth a damn.
these upgrades do little more then grow the wallet of the 4-5 people that end up running the spawned plexes.
They do not make it possible to get 50+ people to make money there.

This is due to the finite nature of plexes, where they only supplement a set amount of isk. this make the alliance wallet not grow at all, and mostly ****es a lot of people off, because the upgraded plex system has already been ran ugh
with this option, crap regions are still crap to hold, because enough income cannot be generated.

True sec upgrading, on the other hand, would make it available for multiple people to enjoy the upgrades while benefiting the alliance's wallet in a exponential fashion. with this option, crap regions are no longer crap to hold

essentially these current upgrades are limited in scope to only a few people and not worth it to the alliance to upgrade.

Yes i am mad, mostly because i was looking forward to this patch, and now its dissapointing Sad

Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
Discord.
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:39:00 - [385]
 

Edited by: Mahke on 07/11/2009 05:40:47
Originally by: DaReaper
now not all systems will be cyno jammed, or have a jb or a cyno gen, or make super caps. But for arguments sake we will have all.


This. This is the flaw in reasoning that makes the price look so bad.

Most systems are probably meant to have sov, hub, and thats it. Everything else, you gotta think about it and weigh whether or not its really worth it.

edit: not saying the benefits couldn't use a bit of a tune up. Just that all the tears are perhaps over the top.

edit: fake edit: Please tell me the extra exploration sites won't spawn after downtime, ugh, would suck for everyone who can't play then.

rubico1337
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:45:00 - [386]
 

Edited by: rubico1337 on 07/11/2009 05:47:00
Originally by: Mskpath3
Edited by: Mskpath3 on 07/11/2009 05:26:11
Originally by: rubico1337

how would you propose letting smaller alliances into 0.0 then? there is no real way to make up for numbers.


You answered your own question. There literally is no substitute for numbers and effort.


yes, it was a rhetorical device. there shouldnt be a substitute for numbers or effort.

Originally by: Mskpath3
Maybe people who live in empire think 0.0 alliance are all just a bunch of mouth-breathing pirates. But the logistics and management of running a full-sized 0.0 alliance are astounding. And the dedication required to defend it equally so.

All the mechanics in the world that aren't flat out "you can't shoot people in 0.0" are going to change that, ever. Anything your happy happy carebear alliance (and by you, I'm speaking in generalities)


dont think that because you(im speaking in generalities) are in a big alliance in 0.0 that your somehow entitled or better than everyone else, a dont that somehow everyone who thinks differently is a carebear

for the record, come out to wormhole space without your instant all-knowing intel tool that is local, and with out your huge blobs to hide behind(speaking in generalities here). ill show you a good time

Originally by: Mskpath3

0.0 is pure egalitarianism. Everyone has an equal chance. You want to get in? Make a play for it. Happens all the time.



no it isnt. vast swaths of 0.0 are controlled by deathstar spamming, cynojamming. jumpportal generating alliances that do so just because it costs pennies in POS fuel and it makes their e-peens bigger. this the powers that be stay the powers that be because the defender has an advantage. not because of "numbers and effort"

there should be a huge cost to cynojammers and jump portals. i welcome these changes

Mskpath3
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:47:00 - [387]
 

Originally by: Alice Teal

As long as the small (more than a hundred though, mmkay?) alliance gets all its members to train up T1 geddons and phoons and domis, they should be fine under the coming changes. When a big guy comes to curbstomp them they only need to break the sov jamming at one point during a 24 hr cycle.


I will break it to you gently : you're on crack :)

If you have a 100 man alliance, a.) 10-20 of them will be online on average, b.) since this is some new endeavor for you, they will have no combat experience and be reluctant to take losses so getting x's will be hard, and most importantly c.) they are going to get massacred by even just the for-lulz 30 man roaming hac fleets, let alone the inevitable 100+ man CTA battleship fleet that will show up within a day or two if you show -any- potential for giving kills.

Fighting, constantly, is your only option. If you dock and hide, your in-space assets will be popped and your members will be sad.

I'd say it'll take < 1 week for a "major" effort by randoms. But in most cases, if any of them succeed, they would have succeeded before Dominion anyways.

Clavius XIV
Auctoritan Syndicate
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:48:00 - [388]
 

Originally by: DaReaper
ok, lets do some math...



A few things to take into account:
  • You are neglecting to calculate fuel bonus (which will be reduced)


  • DS can double as Jammer or JB. Thus even if you assume 5 DS as a basline for current sov holding, it doesn't balloon to 7-8 DS with bridges/jammer. More realistically unless a system is under active assault, 3 DS (1 jammer 2 JB) are maintained and most other POS have some industrial function to offset their fuel costs. Come Dominion 3 DS will still be required, so even if you had 5 DS per system, you would still need to maintain 3, and will have a saving of 2 DS in the best case.


  • The main reason to have numbers of DS now is because if you do not, someone can drop 5 of their own and contest sov at the next DT, which really only matters in station systems. Except come Dominion sov has no impact on station vulnerability.

Normin Bates
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:49:00 - [389]
 

More bloated Alliance tears! Keep 'em coming! Laughing

Please CCP....Don't let the tears from these Alliances with hundreds of unused systems sway your objective. Let them see what they can make of it and then adjust...if needed. If they rage-quit then so be it.

Wahhhhh, we can't keep our 57 systems that we never use! Too funny! LaughingLaughingLaughingRolling Eyes


Korodan
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.07 05:51:00 - [390]
 

Edited by: Korodan on 07/11/2009 05:52:36
Edited by: Korodan on 07/11/2009 05:51:45
Originally by: Normin Bates
More bloated Alliance tears! Keep 'em coming! Laughing

Please CCP....Don't let the tears from these Alliances with hundreds of unused systems sway your objective. Let them see what they can make of it and then adjust...if needed. If they rage-quit then so be it.

Wahhhhh, we can't keep our 57 systems that we never use! Too funny! LaughingLaughingLaughingRolling Eyes




1/10, too obvious. Work on your trolling son.

edit: the smilies are what really give it away, use less next time.

edit again: post with your main.


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