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Oreth Te
Posted - 2009.11.15 09:56:00 - [3391]
 

Edited by: Oreth Te on 15/11/2009 09:59:57
Originally by: ChronoSphere
Jesus this is a lot of money. For a small alliance with only 3 outposts in a constellation, this is gonna cost 5.67 bil every 28 days. I really hope these upgrades do significantly increase the amount of money you can make, cause I dunno where else one can get the cash. The benefits of the upgrades has to outweigh the costs of the system, else whats the point?

Small alliances! And what about the even smaller corps who wishes to attempt access to 0.0. possibly for the first time, Especially with CCP's much vaunted attempts to coax folks into 0.0 at the costs depicted in that table in the latest blog is so ludicrously out of range of most it effectively slams the door in the face of potential new interest. After the initial purchase of the TCU, it would be better to have a sliding scale pricing structure for TCU's based upon the corp's active population one with a minimum of six active members (in order to avoid dummy/alt corps holing a system) the more in the corp the more they can afford due to the greater work force to support it.
IF the corps numbers decline then the costs would reduce accordingly.
Please substitute "alliances" for "corps" if applicable to you and yours.

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.11.15 11:19:00 - [3392]
 

Prices are ridiculous, espically if your goal was to get new players into 0.0.

drall
The Dragon's Core.
Posted - 2009.11.15 13:37:00 - [3393]
 

Originally by: Suitonia
Prices are ridiculous, espically if your goal was to get new players into 0.0.



TBQH Prices are more than fair. If you don't have a industrial backbone able to finance your alliance. Then very frankly you have no business in 0.0. Its not cheep from a alliance perspective don't expect ccp to hand it to you.

But if you have the ability to fund yourselves you should have NO issues meeting the ods.

Niamota Olin
Posted - 2009.11.15 14:00:00 - [3394]
 

Getting more new people into 0.0 just isn't going to happen.

All the really large alliances are just going to squash new players and out skill and out fly them.

People say about having a good industrial backbone to fund 0.0, it's awkward with current game mechanics or did no-one else notice that SB raid posted in the fifth corps briefing...

13 sb's attacking a big mining op, 77 barges/exhumers destroyed for the loss of just 4 attackers!!!
Whats that, billions in industry backbone destroyed for the loss of a few hundred million in attackers.

The power is in the hand of the skilled attackers, I see nothing still in this expansion to encourage people into 0.0, and if it does, they'll just be fresh meat to the existing people there.

Oneiros IV
Minmatar
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.15 15:19:00 - [3395]
 

Funniest thing that with new system oficer / x-type loot won't be a holy grail anymore.
Currently there's 2 kinds of systems a) good ones b) comfortable ones

Domi makes confortable systems good, therefore aquiring top-end loot getting somewhat methodical

Oreth Te
Posted - 2009.11.15 16:35:00 - [3396]
 

Edited by: Oreth Te on 15/11/2009 18:33:17
Edited by: Oreth Te on 15/11/2009 18:31:51
Edited by: Oreth Te on 15/11/2009 16:36:58
Originally by: drall
Originally by: Suitonia
Prices are ridiculous, espically if your goal was to get new players into 0.0.



TBQH Prices are more than fair. If you don't have a industrial backbone able to finance your alliance. Then very frankly you have no business in 0.0. Its not cheep from a alliance perspective don't expect ccp to hand it to you.

But if you have the ability to fund yourselves you should have NO issues meeting the ods.


I was commenting the prospect of newer “small” corps having opportunities in 0.0 not everyone wishes to be in bloated groups, but I digress, industrial backbone as you put it requires numbers to be effective and still have access to certain aspects of Eve. The problem as I see it CCP again simply do not provide for the smaller groups and especially at those projected costs.
Also I feel you forget there are allot of the smaller groups out there can effectively mine the ass end out of a system or two manufacture and or sell products or refined ore to fund themselves but they are being almost actively discriminated against in lieu of the so called major players. Too your point on “easy” hey no one wants easy or you lose the challenge in the game and no one should expect a small corp or small alliance to be able to buy lots of TCU's and hold the number of systems the larger ones can that would be ludicrously un-balanced, but the small groups shouldn’t be barred from being able to hold say one or two systems and more as and if they grow or survive, that's the nature of the beast, but in order to accommodate other players in Eve who are not part of the “Big Set” the access to 0.0 sovereignty should be priced according to your ability to pay for it that allows for the big guys to hold what they want, and would promote the opportunities for smaller guys to get a foothold and at least try for it. Failing to do that simply bars a fair proportion from ever attempting getting there in the first place.

Sellmewarez
Posted - 2009.11.15 16:39:00 - [3397]
 

Another thing not mentioned yet is time constraints.

Typically the people in 0.0 tend to have more time to devote to the game then the average player, however to your normal empire carebear its an important overlooked issue. You cannot just log in and earn money straight away like you can do in missions in high sec then log off when you please. You first need to get in a suitable ship, then travel however far to find a decent system to rat/mine/explore, constantly check if that system has any hostiles in it, if you are exploring you then need to scan down signitures or anonomalies, if ratting and are chaining rat spawns for example you need to hope somebody else doesnt come into system, start ratting and breaking all your chains, etc. etc. i could go on... really CCP how do you expect to attract people from high sec when all of this stuff is one of the main barriers?

Mack Bane
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.15 18:12:00 - [3398]
 

Edited by: Mack Bane on 15/11/2009 18:13:05
Originally by: Sellmewarez
Another thing not mentioned yet is time constraints.

Typically the people in 0.0 tend to have more time to devote to the game then the average player, however to your normal empire carebear its an important overlooked issue. You cannot just log in and earn money straight away like you can do in missions in high sec then log off when you please. You first need to get in a suitable ship, then travel however far to find a decent system to rat/mine/explore, constantly check if that system has any hostiles in it, if you are exploring you then need to scan down signitures or anonomalies, if ratting and are chaining rat spawns for example you need to hope somebody else doesnt come into system, start ratting and breaking all your chains, etc. etc. i could go on... really CCP how do you expect to attract people from high sec when all of this stuff is one of the main barriers?


That is a really large portion of the reason, for me, to NOT go into 0.0 aswell.First off, my collegues are not playing in my timezone, then, they're having family (like me). It's hard to coordinate even just a longer trip of mission running.How could we ever hope to coordinate a 23/7 defense of a system?let alone more than one???
As to the Moon nerf, i wanted to point out, that on fanfest, there was an announcment for "comet mining". Maybe, this will become "the" new income source for 0.0 dwellers?
I ll wait and see. But i have no hope,to ever become one myself!

Lolion Reglo
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.15 18:38:00 - [3399]
 

Originally by: Niamota Olin

All the really large alliances are just going to squash new players and out skill and out fly them.

People say about having a good industrial backbone to fund 0.0, it's awkward with current game mechanics or did no-one else notice that SB raid posted in the fifth corps briefing...

13 sb's attacking a big mining op, 77 barges/exhumers destroyed for the loss of just 4 attackers!!!
Whats that, billions in industry backbone destroyed for the loss of a few hundred million in attackers.

The power is in the hand of the skilled attackers, I see nothing still in this expansion to encourage people into 0.0, and if it does, they'll just be fresh meat to the existing people there.


First of all they should have had a proper defense fleet to take care of cloaker freaks popping up and they should have maintained a watch for hostiles entering system. Soon as i see 4 reds pop into a system im running an op in i suspend operations and get everyone on standby to leave while getting our defense fleet ready to counter any attack they have. their own fault they lost several billions worth of isk in industrial equipment.

ALSO, CCP can't please everyone with this Expansion. Don't ask them too. The idea is to open up null sec space for the people who were interested in go out there. Not so much mission running carebears or people who like the safty of high sec. Its aimed more at the pvpers in high sec who want to be out in null sec, have the industry behind them to back it up but there isnt any space for them to really move into. Also... numbers and a variety of people over timezones is practically a requirement for operating out here.... so restart those recruitment drives, you'll need the numbers.

My corp was like this a few months back where we wanted desperately to join null sec space and we eventually found space in providence we could rent out and an alliance that operated out there willing to take us. We eventually learned how null sec worked and then moved up into an alliance that actually holds space. Now we own an outpost, help run a constellation and enjoying our end of the sandbox. Honestly CCP is not going to make it a cake walk to get out here. you have to have the drive and determination to get out here and honestly if our corp of half care bear, half fanged care bears can get our sorry asses out here over the period of a few months then anyone can. obviously if you want space for your alliance yourself it will take more work.

The numbers for operating sovereignty and the prices for the equipment are MORE than fair in price. 6 million a day to have a system and upgrade it is cake. so keep a guy in high sec running a mission a day if you have to. God knows that even when this expansion comes out ill still have a jump clone to motsu to run a mission or three to keep myself entertained and to get the lp for a Navy scorpion.

The point i'm making is prices are fair now, CCP needs to fix the isk making ability out there yes and they need to make it to support more people and have higher quality anonmalies and other stuff out there. So no they dont need to cater to the peace loving care bears who want to make money in peace. they are looking to make it more open for the low sec pvper's who are kinda already operating like null sec ut are orced to stay in low sec cause there is no space to go claim. All ive been eharing are people saying you should go straight from high sec to null sec... well you forgot the stop gap low sec in there and all them who WANT this kind of thing.

But i will be damned if ccp makes it a cake walk out here. this is the wild west for a reason. No mans land, the pit of despair, if your not ready to take risk, lose lots of isk, a few clones, your ass virginity, and your dignity a few times then by god stay in high sec. you'd be better off there anyway.

Niamota Olin
Posted - 2009.11.15 20:13:00 - [3400]
 

lolian, you know the navy scorp is only from FW lp right...

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.11.15 20:36:00 - [3401]
 

Quote:

this is the wild west for a reason. No mans land, the pit of despair, if your not ready to take risk, lose lots of isk, a few clones, your ass virginity, and your dignity a few times then by god stay in high sec. you'd be better off there anyway.



Pioneers did not go to the wild west to search just for taking risk, lose money and virginity. They went because it promised something, and I doubt that something was just a colored corral on a map.

Future Mutant
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.11.15 20:50:00 - [3402]
 

Originally by: Lolion Reglo
numbers and a variety of people over timezones is practically a requirement for operating out here.... so restart those recruitment drives, you'll need the numbers.




This tbh..
Though so far the major null sec corps have shown zero interest in doing it.
So when they disband, broken and broke- the mechanics cant be blamed. Blame instead their inability to adapt.

Pointfive
Posted - 2009.11.15 20:57:00 - [3403]
 

Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Lolion Reglo
numbers and a variety of people over timezones is practically a requirement for operating out here.... so restart those recruitment drives, you'll need the numbers.




This tbh..
Though so far the major null sec corps have shown zero interest in doing it.
So when they disband, broken and broke- the mechanics cant be blamed. Blame instead their inability to adapt.


So mr level 4 mission runner, master of space politics. How will this patch drive more people out to null sec. They wont come now, so why will they come with this patch? There are plenty of corps that are open to taking people out into nullsec. But as you admit the money is way easier and way safer in empire. So why will they come?

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.15 20:58:00 - [3404]
 

Edited by: Shawna Gray on 15/11/2009 20:58:18
Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Lolion Reglo
numbers and a variety of people over timezones is practically a requirement for operating out here.... so restart those recruitment drives, you'll need the numbers.




This tbh..
Though so far the major null sec corps have shown zero interest in doing it.
So when they disband, broken and broke- the mechanics cant be blamed. Blame instead their inability to adapt.


There is no need for heavy recruitment, and the patch wont lure anyone into 0.0 that isnt already there.

Future Mutant
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.11.15 23:12:00 - [3405]
 

You honestly dont think ppl would jump at the chance to live in null? Spending their time running plexes, mining, or ratting?

You know whats stopping them? Well aside from the fact that most null sec corps dont open recruit?
Whats stopping them is they think most of you act like morons. They think even an attempt to join a null sec corp will get them scammed *cough* goons * cough*

Yes your going to have to do some encouraging to get the recruits. Open your ship replacement program to include their ships. Perhaps even run some ops where you actually protect them.

Yes its a lot of work (much more then sitting back and waiting for moon gold income to come in)- but a lot of corps will be willing to do it. Those who wont- will be replaced.

ZenAndNow
Posted - 2009.11.16 02:25:00 - [3406]
 

@ Future Mutant:

All I can say sir is that, as a ~3 month newbie to the game, in my opinion you are an idiot. Would I like to go to null sec? Sure. If there were incentives other than finding out what it was like.

You see, I can run L4 missions and easily pay for plex. If I wanted to learn to PvP I would go join Red vs Blue. So why should I go to null sec? It can't be because of the isk, because unless you've got moon mining on an R64 (whatever that is) it sounds like you'll never be rich. If you'll never be rich, then you'll be more conservative with your ships. So there'll be less things to pew at, and less ability to pew at things. There goes the PvP.

So tell me Oh Intelligent One: why should I go to null sec? What possible incentive is there other than e-peen enlargement - something that doesn't appeal to me.

Tesal
Posted - 2009.11.16 03:32:00 - [3407]
 

Originally by: ZenAndNow
@ Future Mutant:

All I can say sir is that, as a ~3 month newbie to the game, in my opinion you are an idiot. Would I like to go to null sec? Sure. If there were incentives other than finding out what it was like.

You see, I can run L4 missions and easily pay for plex. If I wanted to learn to PvP I would go join Red vs Blue. So why should I go to null sec? It can't be because of the isk, because unless you've got moon mining on an R64 (whatever that is) it sounds like you'll never be rich. If you'll never be rich, then you'll be more conservative with your ships. So there'll be less things to pew at, and less ability to pew at things. There goes the PvP.

So tell me Oh Intelligent One: why should I go to null sec? What possible incentive is there other than e-peen enlargement - something that doesn't appeal to me.


Yah, everyone is an idiot.

Also, I'm rich *****.

Future Mutant
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.11.16 03:45:00 - [3408]
 

Edited by: Future Mutant on 16/11/2009 03:48:01

Originally by: ZenAndNow
@ Future Mutant:

All I can say sir is that, as a ~3 month newbie to the game, in my opinion you are an idiot. Would I like to go to null sec? Sure. If there were incentives other than finding out what it was like.

You see, I can run L4 missions and easily pay for plex. If I wanted to learn to PvP I would go join Red vs Blue. So why should I go to null sec? It can't be because of the isk, because unless you've got moon mining on an R64 (whatever that is) it sounds like you'll never be rich. If you'll never be rich, then you'll be more conservative with your ships. So there'll be less things to pew at, and less ability to pew at things. There goes the PvP.

So tell me Oh Intelligent One: why should I go to null sec? What possible incentive is there other than e-peen enlargement - something that doesn't appeal to me.


Not sure what part to respond to first...
The (whatever that is) was a nice touch.
Getting rich and rolling in iskies IS an epeen enlargement.
(Most) ppl in null sec corps dont pay for their own ships (or pay discounted prices)
As for why should you go- the fact remains that even without upgraded systems you could make much more then 20-45 mill p/hour (typical lvl 4 income)

But hey try something constructive instead of spouting the "in my opinion bs".
What would entice you to go to null sec?

Edit to say- no not just "go" to null sec. Because that misses the point. What would entice you to either start a null sec corp or join one of the very few that do open recruit.
Or even pretend your the leader of one- what would entice you to actually recruit.

Mcon99
Posted - 2009.11.16 03:53:00 - [3409]
 

Originally by: ZenAndNow
@ Future Mutant:

You see, I can run L4 missions and easily pay for plex.


Except you fail. Grinding isk to pay for plexes is ... well a lot of things, funny for one. Isk is for ships and equipment.


Nobani
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.16 04:53:00 - [3410]
 

Originally by: Future Mutant
(Most) ppl in null sec corps dont pay for their own ships (or pay discounted prices)


Would the alliance which pays for all their members ships please step forward? I want to join.

Kanatta Jing
Posted - 2009.11.16 05:12:00 - [3411]
 

Originally by: Nobani
Originally by: Future Mutant
(Most) ppl in null sec corps dont pay for their own ships (or pay discounted prices)


Would the alliance which pays for all their members ships please step forward? I want to join.


Ya, I've been paying and charging reasonable market cost for mine.


Kayl Breinhar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.16 07:12:00 - [3412]
 

Originally by: Nobani
Originally by: Future Mutant
(Most) ppl in null sec corps dont pay for their own ships (or pay discounted prices)


Would the alliance which pays for all their members ships please step forward? I want to join.

Oh come on, let's be entirely honest - we get all our ships for free because it's a benefit from taking Delve. Everyone "in the know" knows that NOL- has a special hidden station service (the button is 10x10 pixels wide and very well-obscured) that poops out whatever non-supercapital (since there has to be SOME limits) that anyone with the requisite roles needs. All it costs is one Exotic Dancer - why do you think the BoB guys used to always carry one around in their cargoholds? It's so if they got the chance to loot the field, they could get their ships back for zero cost!

Seriously, did you think we did a PEDESTRIAN act like import hulls from Empire and build on site? Pah. PAH I say! To think we use a market system in 0.0 like the peons in Empire...preposterous!

But seriously, Future Mutant, you're a really bad troll or you're immensely stupid and high-strung. At least the latter is mildly entertaining.

Daniel Ogden
Posted - 2009.11.16 07:53:00 - [3413]
 

Don't ask me to find the post I am referencing in this mountain of replies, but wasn't there a promise of a new dev blog that we were supposed to get about 5-6 days ago with some adjustments and further explanations? What happened to that?

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.11.16 08:20:00 - [3414]
 


I don't know where these "0.0 corps" statements come from (unless it's smelly and sun does not shine on it).

1) In all the 0.0 corps I know, you don't get free ships.
You may be eligible for a refund (and you had to pay the corp for the ship first, not i.e. self made it) in very specific circumstances, with the exact fittings and rigs that made it a "fleet ship".

Everything else is at your loss.

Guys who proved to be exceptionally dedicated can receive ships as a prize, but that's something reserved to the top PvPers not the top plex farmers.


2) All the 0.0 corps I know are open to recruiting. There are some implicit limits as you are meant to fly a 0.0 "compatible" ship or use corp fittings but so far (both enemies and friends) no one got the WoW bull*hit "no Epix = GTFO" attitude.

3) All the 0.0 corps I know are very very PvP centric. The pilots are meant to be out in gangs to protect gates and territory when there's no "corp OP" running, this means we are not meant to sit 23/7 and grind rats and plexes.

What happens is that you are the industry guy toying with a POS and you happen to be online when enemies come in, you are meant to go out and defend. Or be the industry guy without the POS any more because it got popped, or worse.

4) The "life" conditions can be quite harsh. Imagine being the industry guy but wait, there's no market hub anywhere within 50 jumps. There's a minor 0.0 hub 5 jumps out and of course you'll be podded just trying to take your stuff there (even blockade runners are not so invincible once you are against people with a clue, from sling blubbles to perma disco-camps make life "interesting").
Imagine having 100M minerals to refine, but wait, unless you are RICH and established (quite the opposite of the patch supposed targets) your alliance got no outpost and then your refineries suck donkey nuts.
Hell, unless you have a nearby station or similar, you cannot even *repackage*, the most natural and discounted act.



Now, where is the patch going to help bring new people in 0.0? Where's the *plus* - I am not even talking about money - to convince someone that there's some 0.0 place that is better than a WH?
After all, in a WH you are "protected", can find the roids you won't find in 0.0 (as of today) unless in few privileged negative truesec places and much more (ie friendly no-displacing gates).

If the only plus is "PvP", then it has to be a PvP friendly place, that is not have to PvE grind for hours. Else, if PvE is demanded, have it be a worthwhile PvE.

PriestWithKnives
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.16 11:41:00 - [3415]
 

The initial blog was to make us so unhappy at the lackluster upgrades and insane costs in getting them that whenever you rolled out something not quite as bad we'll accept it right?

Great idea. Can't wait to unsubscribe.

soul diva
Posted - 2009.11.16 12:11:00 - [3416]
 

Originally by: Gramtar


GoonSwarm? We're ideally positioned for this change. We only claim two regions (although like others we'll be ironically punished for having developed these regions by dropping additional outposts), and there are points in both within Carrier range of lowsec. Delve is just 2 jumps from lowsec logistic points in a Jump Freighter or Rorqual.

Delve truesec is completely broken, with 1.85M rats and officers able to spawn in every system. We also have L4 (though none Q20) agents in NPC delve, and with adjustments to pirate faction ships Blood Raider LP are no longer completely worthless.




This ^^
Whilst slightly off topic we all know about Delve etc trusec being borked. But everyone else now can pay a stupid amount of isk to upgrade and maintain systems in order for them to be a percentage as good as Delve that is naturally better without upgrades.

Surely CCP before you move on to bigger and better things let's fix whats broken first. As they saying goes if it aint broke dont fix it.
You CCP don't fix things you just invent new broken things.
I am 100% possitive that ALL EVE PLAYERS would like broken things fixed instead of more new broken things. We would not put you down for not adding content providing you fix the current content.

Propotkin
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2009.11.16 12:13:00 - [3417]
 

Originally by: ZenAndNow
@ Future Mutant:

All I can say sir is that, as a ~3 month newbie to the game, in my opinion you are an idiot. Would I like to go to null sec? Sure. If there were incentives other than finding out what it was like.

You see, I can run L4 missions and easily pay for plex. If I wanted to learn to PvP I would go join Red vs Blue. So why should I go to null sec? It can't be because of the isk, because unless you've got moon mining on an R64 (whatever that is) it sounds like you'll never be rich. If you'll never be rich, then you'll be more conservative with your ships. So there'll be less things to pew at, and less ability to pew at things. There goes the PvP.

So tell me Oh Intelligent One: why should I go to null sec? What possible incentive is there other than e-peen enlargement - something that doesn't appeal to me.


Reason to goto null sec ? = i make 500 mil per week ratting/plexing etc - so there is 500 mil reasons to goto null sec :)

Mr Xanatos
Posted - 2009.11.16 13:10:00 - [3418]
 

Edited by: Mr Xanatos on 16/11/2009 13:27:05


I see very little mention of Dust541 here.

The whole purpose of changing Sov Mechanics is so that the Dusties will actaully have something to do.

Currently 0.0 Sov is pretty static, yes there are land grabs every now and then but all in all a few big Aliances control most of 0.0. The Alliances have such a foot hold that its pretty much impossible to push them out. With this static movement in Sov changes there is little or no work for Dusties right now.

So, CCP are going to force the largest Alliances to give up large swaths of space (consolidate due to cost) to create a lot of "wasteland" 0.0 in the hopes that all the smaller Corps/Alliance will try to take part in a good old fashion land grab/plant your flag type event "tis my field".

Then when the Dust settles the Sov mechanic will change again and along comes ten thousand teenage Dusties on their Xbox/PS3, who knows maybe even hundreds of thousands to participate in Sov Wars.

CCP have upset a lot of people and looks like they may ruin the hard work of all the 0.0 Alliances, forcing many to quit Eve because of a Star Wars NGE style game change. But why should CCP care, if all of the diehard 0.0 players quit then it makes life much easier for hi sec dwellers to get a foothold in 0.0. The more hi sec dwellers that get involved in land grabs then the more work for the Dusties there will be making Dust541 a success. If the large Alliances stay as major power blocks then Sov changes will remain static thus forcing the Dusties out of work before they even start.

Im also guessing CCP will limit the amount of Dusties per planet, so even if you are Goonies you can only send 250 Dusties to fight a small Alliances 250 Dusties for a planet. Gaining Sov then isnt decided by the a massive cap blob or by your wealth but by who has the best Dusties.

To surmise:
Force the big Alliances to give up Sov, create land grab and chaos situation, create work for the Dusties, change Sov mechanics so the Dusties are the most important element in gaining Sov, cap ships become obsolete for Sov grabs, big guys loose the advantage and the little guy can fight on even terms with his Dusties doing the work, many Eve players quit but are replaced by many many more Dusties and CCP laugh all the way to the bank.

Every decision/change made to Eve by CCP for the next 12+ months is going to have to sole purpose of "how can we create more work/fun/addiction for our Dusties". If that means selling out a % of its existing player base and stepping on them then CCP will, why?? Because its a numbers games, plain and simple.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" and in the is case "The needs of the massive potential cash paying hundreds of thousands of teenage Xbox/PS3 Dusties outweighs the few thousand potential 0.0 rage quitters".

Cant wait to see how it all plays out :)

Magnum III
Journey On Squad
Posted - 2009.11.16 14:57:00 - [3419]
 

Edited by: Magnum III on 16/11/2009 15:04:11
Originally by: Mr Xanatos
Edited by: Mr Xanatos on 16/11/2009 13:27:05


I see very little mention of Dust541 here.

The whole purpose of changing Sov Mechanics is so that the Dusties will actaully have something to do.

Currently 0.0 Sov is pretty static, yes there are land grabs every now and then but all in all a few big Aliances control most of 0.0. The Alliances have such a foot hold that its pretty much impossible to push them out. With this static movement in Sov changes there is little or no work for Dusties right now.

So, CCP are going to force the largest Alliances to give up large swaths of space (consolidate due to cost) to create a lot of "wasteland" 0.0 in the hopes that all the smaller Corps/Alliance will try to take part in a good old fashion land grab/plant your flag type event "tis my field".

Then when the Dust settles the Sov mechanic will change again and along comes ten thousand teenage Dusties on their Xbox/PS3, who knows maybe even hundreds of thousands to participate in Sov Wars.

CCP have upset a lot of people and looks like they may ruin the hard work of all the 0.0 Alliances, forcing many to quit Eve because of a Star Wars NGE style game change. But why should CCP care, if all of the diehard 0.0 players quit then it makes life much easier for hi sec dwellers to get a foothold in 0.0. The more hi sec dwellers that get involved in land grabs then the more work for the Dusties there will be making Dust541 a success. If the large Alliances stay as major power blocks then Sov changes will remain static thus forcing the Dusties out of work before they even start.

Im also guessing CCP will limit the amount of Dusties per planet, so even if you are Goonies you can only send 250 Dusties to fight a small Alliances 250 Dusties for a planet. Gaining Sov then isnt decided by the a massive cap blob or by your wealth but by who has the best Dusties.

To surmise:
Force the big Alliances to give up Sov, create land grab and chaos situation, create work for the Dusties, change Sov mechanics so the Dusties are the most important element in gaining Sov, cap ships become obsolete for Sov grabs, big guys loose the advantage and the little guy can fight on even terms with his Dusties doing the work, many Eve players quit but are replaced by many many more Dusties and CCP laugh all the way to the bank.

Every decision/change made to Eve by CCP for the next 12+ months is going to have to sole purpose of "how can we create more work/fun/addiction for our Dusties". If that means selling out a % of its existing player base and stepping on them then CCP will, why?? Because its a numbers games, plain and simple.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" and in the is case "The needs of the massive potential cash paying hundreds of thousands of teenage Xbox/PS3 Dusties outweighs the few thousand potential 0.0 rage quitters".

Cant wait to see how it all plays out :)

Great point about it better be Dynamic and not so static like now for the Dust 514 .

I was wondering about it being static my self, I want to go to 0.0 but it need to be more then a big alliance and pets not really warring with each other were things change and your doing more then just sitting in one system with someone’s permission.

But no matter what I say if I make sence or not , YOPU got a great point, even I can see that.

Originally by: soul diva
Originally by: Gramtar


GoonSwarm? We're ideally positioned for this change. We only claim two regions (although like others we'll be ironically punished for having developed these regions by dropping additional outposts), and there are points in both within Carrier range of lowsec. Delve is just 2 jumps from lowsec logistic points in a Jump Freighter or Rorqual.

Delve truesec is completely broken, with 1.85M rats and officers able to spawn in every system. We also have L4 (though none Q20) agents in NPC delve, and with adjustments to pirate f

Magnum III
Journey On Squad
Posted - 2009.11.16 15:07:00 - [3420]
 

Edited by: Magnum III on 16/11/2009 15:16:44
Originally by: soul diva
Originally by: Gramtar


GoonSwarm? We're ideally positioned for this change. We only claim two regions (although like others we'll be ironically punished for having developed these regions by dropping additional outposts), and there are points in both within Carrier range of lowsec. Delve is just 2 jumps from lowsec logistic points in a Jump Freighter or Rorqual.

Delve truesec is completely broken, with 1.85M rats and officers able to spawn in every system. We also have L4 (though none Q20) agents in NPC delve, and with adjustments to pirate faction ships Blood Raider LP are no longer completely worthless.




This ^^
Whilst slightly off topic we all know about Delve etc trusec being borked. But everyone else now can pay a stupid amount of isk to upgrade and maintain systems in order for them to be a percentage as good as Delve that is naturally better without upgrades.

Surely CCP before you move on to bigger and better things let's fix whats broken first. As they saying goes if it aint broke dont fix it.
You CCP don't fix things you just invent new broken things.
I am 100% possitive that ALL EVE PLAYERS would like broken things fixed instead of more new broken things. We would not put you down for not adding content providing you fix the current content.

I think I know what you saying, and imo I never saw the good in making it so Alliances were even harder to boot out of said regions and it's got to be easier now,

and maybe they should just get rid of all money making things in 0.0 and let them only be put in with upgrades but make then easy to upgrade but easy to loose even for no matter what size your alliance is

like making sure gorilla warfare is useful like in RL.

Originally by: Future Mutant
Edited by: Future Mutant on 16/11/2009 03:48:01

Originally by: ZenAndNow
@ Future Mutant:

All I can say sir is that, as a ~3 month newbie to the game, in my opinion you are an idiot. Would I like to go to null sec? Sure. If there were incentives other than finding out what it was like.

You see, I can run L4 missions and easily pay for plex. If I wanted to learn to PvP I would go join Red vs Blue. So why should I go to null sec? It can't be because of the isk, because unless you've got moon mining on an R64 (whatever that is) it sounds like you'll never be rich. If you'll never be rich, then you'll be more conservative with your ships. So there'll be less things to pew at, and less ability to pew at things. There goes the PvP.

So tell me Oh Intelligent One: why should I go to null sec? What possible incentive is there other than e-peen enlargement - something that doesn't appeal to me.


Not sure what part to respond to first...
The (whatever that is) was a nice touch.
Getting rich and rolling in iskies IS an epeen enlargement.
(Most) ppl in null sec corps dont pay for their own ships (or pay discounted prices)
As for why should you go- the fact remains that even without upgraded systems you could make much more then 20-45 mill p/hour (typical lvl 4 income)

But hey try something constructive instead of spouting the "in my opinion bs".
What would entice you to go to null sec?

Edit to say- no not just "go" to null sec. Because that misses the point. What would entice you to either start a null sec corp or join one of the very few that do open recruit.
Or even pretend your the leader of one- what would entice you to actually recruit.
The reason to go to nul sec should be back and forth tactical wars but not mostly in between sitting in one system being told what to do.

Things need to be gained and lost much easyer then now & and at least some reason to do it likeit's fun but not a grind and not just tacticaly fun for one person high up the ladder. It's going to still be too complicated to loose space and have to move your stuff over and over though. I think mabe CCP is thinking too much on this stuff, as long as you are not forced to do one


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