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Bud Johnson
Broski Enterprises
Posted - 2009.11.14 02:50:00 - [3361]
 

Sure is whine in here.
Adapt or die.

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2009.11.14 03:24:00 - [3362]
 

Edited by: Super Whopper on 14/11/2009 03:44:30
Edited by: Super Whopper on 14/11/2009 03:39:12
Originally by: Jovialmadness
Quote:
You should probably display your alliance and corp then, because otherwise it just looks like someone with no clue trying to pretend otherwise (hint, you still are).

I understand you fine. You think that making 0.0 have a worse risk/reward ratio will encourage people to enter it. Most people would call this things like "stupid" or "illogical" but lets try putting one and one together and see what happens. Added costs drive people from 0.0, added rewards encourage them to come. Just about everyone else wants 0.0 to be restructured such that large alliances hold much smaller amounts of territory, but with rewards justifying the difficulty of 0.0. 0.0 alliances holding smaller amounts of territory for greater rewards will encourage new groups to enter to take advantages of the rewards themselves, and everyone will be happy.

Lets move onto what you want.

You apparently want 0.0 to be cost-prohibitive such that large numbers of people will leave it, in hopes that large numbers of empire players will suddenly enter it to make less money, but with the added bonus of randomly being blown up.

Conclusion: You're pretty dumb.


Yea you are right. I am dumb for wanting your alliance to suffer. Smile

See this is what im talking about, you have totally missed the point. Its like a communist and capitalist argueing whose gov't is better. I simply believe that 0.0 should be an earned space that provides basic income with ADDED COST to make it hard to live there so that when ******s get into nap/nonnap mode you cant just run around like a damn chicken with your head cut off trying to control space like in the past. NOW IT WILL CHANGE. Now we can't just pos spam like in the past...now taking space FFS of taking space might actually mean something considering there is serious cost to it. But none of that means jack to you...all you care about is what you can make in the systems as far as income. F... that.


And what was the point of living in 0.0 again? I keep forgetting... Oh yeah, it was to pay more than Empire dwellers do, no wonder those who live in Empire are so jealous of us, their costs aren't as high as ours. Wait... that doesn't sound right... does it?

So, what were you talking about again? Cost? Risk? You're an idiot? No, you're not an idiot are you? You'll gladly give up an executive job earning hundreds of thousands to be a bin man because everything in life is free and easy to get.

This isn't CAOD troll, get lost and go spam your anti-Goon **** there. I don't like Goons in game either but they are the ones who've understood the best that everyone in 0.0, especially CVA, are utterly ****ed.

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2009.11.14 03:43:00 - [3363]
 

Originally by: Bud Johnson
Sure is whine in here.
Adapt or die.


We are going to adapt. We will not claim sov in all systems we own, reducing costs, and leaving the rest of EVE unclaimed. You will be the one who dies because you will get crushed to dust the moment you set foot in 0.0 because our space will remain defended by Deathstars.

Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.14 04:19:00 - [3364]
 

Originally by: Jovialmadness
Quote:
You should probably display your alliance and corp then, because otherwise it just looks like someone with no clue trying to pretend otherwise (hint, you still are).

I understand you fine. You think that making 0.0 have a worse risk/reward ratio will encourage people to enter it. Most people would call this things like "stupid" or "illogical" but lets try putting one and one together and see what happens. Added costs drive people from 0.0, added rewards encourage them to come. Just about everyone else wants 0.0 to be restructured such that large alliances hold much smaller amounts of territory, but with rewards justifying the difficulty of 0.0. 0.0 alliances holding smaller amounts of territory for greater rewards will encourage new groups to enter to take advantages of the rewards themselves, and everyone will be happy.

Lets move onto what you want.

You apparently want 0.0 to be cost-prohibitive such that large numbers of people will leave it, in hopes that large numbers of empire players will suddenly enter it to make less money, but with the added bonus of randomly being blown up.

Conclusion: You're pretty dumb.


Yea you are right. I am dumb for wanting your alliance to suffer. Smile

See this is what im talking about, you have totally missed the point. Its like a communist and capitalist argueing whose gov't is better. I simply believe that 0.0 should be an earned space that provides basic income with ADDED COST to make it hard to live there so that when ******s get into nap/nonnap mode you cant just run around like a damn chicken with your head cut off trying to control space like in the past. NOW IT WILL CHANGE. Now we can't just pos spam like in the past...now taking space FFS of taking space might actually mean something considering there is serious cost to it. But none of that means jack to you...all you care about is what you can make in the systems as far as income. F... that.



Super Whopper pretty much said what I wanted to say. But yes, you're a moron that doesn't seem to understand that after the patch, especially considering the moon mining nerfs, risk free high sec will be more profitable than 0.0 That's all there is to it.

And no, taking space just for the sake of having my alliance name appear temporarily on a map that people sometimes look at in an internet space game does not excite me or anyone else with a clue.

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2009.11.14 05:47:00 - [3365]
 

Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang
Super Whopper pretty much said what I wanted to say. But yes, you're a moron that doesn't seem to understand that after the patch, especially considering the moon mining nerfs, risk free high sec will be more profitable than 0.0 That's all there is to it.

And no, taking space just for the sake of having my alliance name appear temporarily on a map that people sometimes look at in an internet space game does not excite me or anyone else with a clue.


Jovialmadness, Member of Science and Trade Institute [STI], 3 years 11 months 7 days.

Don't you just hate it when lvl 4 running Empire huggers, who are too scared to even go into low sec in their pods, come here and tell us how to live our lives?

Future Mutant
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.11.14 05:58:00 - [3366]
 

No actually the part i love is when null sec ppl whine.

Im not sure what part amuses me most really. Maybe its the moon goo nerf forcing them to actually work for their ships. Maybe its their total incompetence in making isk through normal methods. Maybe its their utter refusal to even consider recruiting lower sp members who can farm for them- and be taxed to fund their pvp wing.

Or maybe its this 112 page WAHHHH fest.

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2009.11.14 06:39:00 - [3367]
 

Originally by: Future Mutant
No actually the part i love is when null sec ppl whine.

Im not sure what part amuses me most really. Maybe its the moon goo nerf forcing them to actually work for their ships. Maybe its their total incompetence in making isk through normal methods. Maybe its their utter refusal to even consider recruiting lower sp members who can farm for them- and be taxed to fund their pvp wing.

Or maybe its this 112 page WAHHHH fest.


Who said noobs aren't welcome in 0.0? You are more than welcome to go to Providence but you won't, you will miss your lvl 4's too much, won't you? Have you actually ever been to 0.0?

Future Mutant
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.11.14 08:26:00 - [3368]
 

I go about once or twice a month- love insmother, almost as much as i love translating russian smacktalk lol

On a more serious note- your missing the point.
The idea of dominion (one of them anyway) is to get more corps to relocate to null and to encourage the existing null sec corps to recruit.

The lone player has no real chance at "living" in null- hes going to be a visitor, but his base of operations will always be hi sec.
Nothing short of "acceptance" into a player corp will change
the overall population ratio of null vs hisec.

Most null sec corps ***** about players staying in high sec while simultaneously excluding them from their corp.

Two basic problems- one the costs of maintaining sov- could be solved entirely by collecting taxes from ppl who would love to join- if only to exploit (read farm) your space.

The second problem-inequality of isk per hour in null vs highsec. Tbh i personally think most are underestimating the potential isk/hour in null and overestimating the isk/hour in high sec missioning. A few things could possibly be changed to boost ratting income- but some of the expectations ive read here are a bit over the top.


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.11.14 09:32:00 - [3369]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 14/11/2009 09:35:40
Originally by: Mcon99
So we are honestly to believe that goons would be happy owning say 2 consteallations in Delve for all their members, assuming the resource base was availiable? and then let small alliances move in next door? yeah right.
You might be surprised by this, but one of the draws of 0.0 is PvP. The goons, in particular, seem to have this strange proclivity for blowing stuff up for no apparent reason.

If the patch were to do what it was originally intended to do, it would let the goons become more concentrated in fewer systems — this means they'd have to travel shorter distances to find something to blow up. It would let more people move out into 0.0 — this means there'd be more people and stuff for the goons to blow up. It would let these newcomers (and already-present oldtimers) bunch up as well — this means it would be easier for the goons to find stuff to blow up. It would give all the general goon-haters a new foothold from which to attack — this would mean more people coming to the goons to get blown up, without the goons having to move an inch.

If you don't see why the goons would love for this to happen, your train of thought is missing a very important point somewhere…
Originally by: Future Mutant
The second problem-inequality of isk per hour in null vs highsec. Tbh i personally think most are underestimating the potential isk/hour in null and overestimating the isk/hour in high sec missioning. A few things could possibly be changed to boost ratting income- but some of the expectations ive read here are a bit over the top.
People may underestimate the nullsec income, but that's because it's largely random/grind-based, and prone to sudden interruption, making it difficult to measure. It's also very limited in the number of people it can maintain, which is at the heart of the issue. The income potential of highsec is very well mapped out.

The expectations people have is that the nullsec income sources are (or should be) better than highsec. This may be true now, with the larger complexes and well-groomed rat chains, but those cannot be used as a point of comparison because they aren't part of the upgrade system and will be the same as they always were. So when CCP comes in here and says that the best ratting improvements will be "on par" with high-sec L4s, that hole argument collapses. It no longer matters what the income estimates are — it will be the same for both by very design. This falls so short of any reasonable expectation you can have on nullsec that it's outright laughable.

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2009.11.14 09:58:00 - [3370]
 

Edited by: Super Whopper on 14/11/2009 10:03:13
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Future Mutant
The second problem-inequality of isk per hour in null vs highsec. Tbh i personally think most are underestimating the potential isk/hour in null and overestimating the isk/hour in high sec missioning. A few things could possibly be changed to boost ratting income- but some of the expectations ive read here are a bit over the top.
People may underestimate the nullsec income, but that's because it's largely random/grind-based, and prone to sudden interruption, making it difficult to measure. It's also very limited in the number of people it can maintain, which is at the heart of the issue. The income potential of highsec is very well mapped out.

The expectations people have is that the nullsec income sources are (or should be) better than highsec. This may be true now, with the larger complexes and well-groomed rat chains, but those cannot be used as a point of comparison because they aren't part of the upgrade system and will be the same as they always were. So when CCP comes in here and says that the best ratting improvements will be "on par" with high-sec L4s, that hole argument collapses. It no longer matters what the income estimates are it will be the same for both by very design. This falls so short of any reasonable expectation you can have on nullsec that it's outright laughable.


One AFK cloaker sitting in your system for two days, your income drops to 0 while you could still be running missions in an NPC corp.

A BO bridges 10 bombers on top of your mining op and you lose all of your ships, income reduced to -100m at least.

With the original idea of 100/system it'd have been much worse. Imagine one AFK cloaker simply deactivating or rendering your upgrades useless. Well thought out idea by CCP because I can put 5 AFK cloakers in hostile systems for days while I do other things and as they can't catch me I win. Cloaking in that case is overpowered and everyone will go back to running lvl 4's but CCP like it that way it seems. As has been said, 0.0 is the back of beyond CCP care so much about they're ruining it.

Now CCP have changed it to 10-15 per system but if one cloaker can render upgrades useless then it still does nothing and you just might as well not upgrade. Stupid thing to say, really, as very few systems will be upgrades. I wonder whether what I've said so far will actually be valid, considering CCP don't want us to upgrade at all.

My condolences CVA, you will be missed Crying or Very sad

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.11.14 10:07:00 - [3371]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 14/11/2009 10:09:29
Originally by: Super Whopper
One AFK cloaker sitting in your system for two days, your income drops to 0 while you could still be running missions in an NPC corp.
With 100 in the system, it would be the cloaker who was afraid — not the people going about their business. Thus, cloaker-fear is solved.
Quote:
A BO bridges 10 bombers on top of your mining op and you lose all of your ships, income reduced to -100m at least.
No different than now.
Quote:
Imagine one AFK cloaker simply deactivating or rendering your upgrades useless.
How on earth would he do that? A single cloaker placing numerous 2500m, 6h-anchoring-time modules, then sieging the hub for 48-72h? While cloaked and AFK? Yeah, I think he'd very much deserve that kind of victory if he pulled it off. Laughing

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.11.14 10:39:00 - [3372]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 14/11/2009 10:41:49

Quote:

Two basic problems- one the costs of maintaining sov- could be solved entirely by collecting taxes from ppl who would love to join- if only to exploit (read farm) your space



Why would someone bother going to die in 0.0 while trying to farm?

What would those new players farm? The 10/10 plexes, in a cruiser?


Quote:

The second problem-inequality of isk per hour in null vs highsec. Tbh i personally think most are underestimating the potential isk/hour in null and overestimating the isk/hour in high sec missioning. A few things could possibly be changed to boost ratting income- but some of the expectations ive read here are a bit over the top.



As of today the worst possible in hi sec is 25M/h, the norm 30M and higher SP and better ship do from 40M to 55M per hour.

With the crappiness of the non mission PvE content you can grind plexes for a

- non prevedible income per hour (and risk dying, and have to split rewards).

- 25M/h for ABC roids in case of a bothersome mining op with Rorqual (or you could park 2 hulks in hi sec and go afk and go cash in it in the evening)

- 30M+ per hour with ratting, but then the "new players" are not probably going to do 3 battleships, plus it's boring beyond tears, plus you are still in 0 sec, plus you have first to "nurture" the spawns and that time makes for a well lesser income.



All of this for an anticlimatic experience.

0.0 is far west. In far west you would see the adventurers and those desperate who had nothing to lose. In EvE you have PvPers who are the adventurers, not the farmers (even the name implies peaceful cultivators).

The farmers have no reason to go in the far west, EvE has no Klondike, no El Dorado, no Promised Land. Just a terrible feeling of solitude once you play at certain hours (ie Euro morning) when you are alone in the next 30 jumps.
Farmers in EvE are those who remained in the old continent and just farmed the fertile soil they already had.

In EvE they farm L4 and hi sec roids.


If this expansion aimed at changing this situation in any way, well I want what they are smoking.

Resender
Posted - 2009.11.14 10:41:00 - [3373]
 

I see many people whining about the cost but what about the size.
The hubs are gigantic to say the least, you need a freighter to move them.

Kanatta Jing
Posted - 2009.11.14 11:12:00 - [3374]
 

Originally by: Resender
I see many people whining about the cost but what about the size.
The hubs are gigantic to say the least, you need a freighter to move them.


Here I agree, maybe just JF size?

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.14 12:23:00 - [3375]
 

Originally by: Future Mutant
Maybe its their utter refusal to even consider recruiting lower sp members who can farm for them- and be taxed to fund their pvp wing.


Yes, if there's one thing Goonswarm is well known for its hating newbies.

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.14 13:29:00 - [3376]
 

Originally by: Future Mutant
On a more serious note- your missing the point.
The idea of dominion (one of them anyway) is to get more corps to relocate to null and to encourage the existing null sec corps to recruit.

[....]

Two basic problems- one the costs of maintaining sov- could be solved entirely by collecting taxes from ppl who would love to join- if only to exploit (read farm) your space.

No, its you that is missing the point: that if there's no economic incentive to leave highsec, where are these new taxpaying 0.0 farmers going to appear from?

You seem to be working on the assumption that all 0.0 alliances can wave magic wands and instantly have 500 players join their 0.0 pet corps, without providing either a carrot or a stick for those players to do so.

Quote:
The second problem-inequality of isk per hour in null vs highsec. Tbh i personally think most are underestimating the potential isk/hour in null and overestimating the isk/hour in high sec missioning.


"Potential" ISK per hour is pretty good in 0.0, but the difference is that it is only potential: if another player is running your belts, or there's a hostile gang in the area, or the market is out of the cruise missiles you need, or if you lost your ship and need to make 15 jumps to get to the nearest place that sells them (frequently at a large markup over highsec prices) then that potential isn't what ends up in your wallet. In a highsec mission hub, if your potential is 20m an hour then short of the easily-dodgable wardec then you will be making 20m per hour.

Quote:
A few things could possibly be changed to boost ratting income- but some of the expectations ive read here are a bit over the top.

At least 'over the top' would achieve the goals that CCP set out when they were announcing Dominion: creating a reason for the carebears to think about heading out into 0.0 rather than farming Motsu until the servers shut down. As it is, CCP have expended a load of effort to annoy all the current 0.0 residents, disappoint the aspiring 0.0 residents, and do virtually nothing to change the 0.0 population or landscape.

Gordo Fartis
Caldari
13th Squadron
E C L I P S E
Posted - 2009.11.14 14:52:00 - [3377]
 

So far most people have been analyising Dominion by focusing in one aspect or the other.

It seems to me that there will be a strong incentive for the current alliances to get renters in their space in order to get the space to imporve which means that the PVP members will not have to bother either mining/ratting or doing plexes in the fully controled areas.

Advatages for alliance is more PvP, lower cost of items as more carebear activities means more demand and more industrial people moving in. Or if the alliances get well organised their own industrial wing supplying a growing marked which means more ISK for the alliance. The only problem I see is that current residents will have to move further afield to rat/plexing etc (Which by the way is what happens now)

Big disadvantage is that renters are notoriously flaky and the alliance will have to make a big effort to protect them. i.e. fast response to attacks, more roaming gangs etc etc ==> more PVP Razz

As for the ISK generation potential of LVL 4s versus 0.0 I have read several people suggesting a 30 to 55 million ISK per hour for level 4s. The 30 million I can just believe it possible (if you are lucky), but to achieve the 55 million it will be necesary that you can consistenly complete 3/4 high paying missions and salvage in an hour on your own. Even with two ships (one killing and one salvaging I found this very difficult). I have found that it is easier to achieve this in 0.0 even with all the risk that is involved (FUN) and the the need to do it with friends (most of the time)

From my poitn of view everything in Dominion is linked. Claiming sovereingty is expensive which requires making money (moons, rents, taxes etc), which requires renteres, which require markets, which requires more industry, which requires active defense -->resulting in more PVP, lower prices, more risk and therefore more fun

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2009.11.14 16:20:00 - [3378]
 

Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 14/11/2009 16:26:30
Originally by: Gordo Fartis
<stuff>

As for the ISK generation potential of LVL 4s versus 0.0 I have read several people suggesting a 30 to 55 million ISK per hour for level 4s. The 30 million I can just believe it possible (if you are lucky), but to achieve the 55 million it will be necesary that you can consistenly complete 3/4 high paying missions and salvage in an hour on your own. Even with two ships (one killing and one salvaging I found this very difficult). I have found that it is easier to achieve this in 0.0 even with all the risk that is involved (FUN) and the the need to do it with friends (most of the time)

<stuff>


Some basics about level 4 income levels. That is 45mil ISK/h with just a single marauder grinding missions as they come from a single agent. A single generic BS income isn't all that good or overpowered, but it continues to grow as time goes on.

When you fly missions you gain enough standings to use a decent amount of lvl 4 agents, that are only separated by few jumps. This allows you to cycle missions and ignore the low income ones. Now consider people with a second account, that can use two ships and share standings gains to corps with their alt characters. This allows you to easily have half a dozen lvl 4 agents per character in a small area and cycle or chain only the best ISK/h missions. 0.0 income can't in some areas compete even with the generic BS income levels and you achieve the income ceiling very fast, when it just keeps growing in highsec with your abilities.

Some people enjoy the risk some don't. The ones who don't won't ever come to 0.0 without strong monetary incentives to counter the risk. From those that enjoy risk some don't care about efficiency and some do. Those who do aren't going to waste their time in 0.0 income grind when they can much more easily and faster do the same in highsec.

EDIT: You should also consider wormholes. They offer a better PvE experience with friends and the risk, but the income levels puts normal 0.0 levels to shame. Currently 0.0 isn't particularly attractive from income earning point of view compared to all other areas except lowsec.

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2009.11.14 16:32:00 - [3379]
 

Edited by: Super Whopper on 14/11/2009 16:39:50
Originally by: Gordo Fartis
So far most people have been analyising Dominion by focusing in one aspect or the other.

It seems to me that there will be a strong incentive for the current alliances to get renters in their space in order to get the space to imporve which means that the PVP members will not have to bother either mining/ratting or doing plexes in the fully controled areas.

Advatages for alliance is more PvP, lower cost of items as more carebear activities means more demand and more industrial people moving in. Or if the alliances get well organised their own industrial wing supplying a growing marked which means more ISK for the alliance. The only problem I see is that current residents will have to move further afield to rat/plexing etc (Which by the way is what happens now)

Big disadvantage is that renters are notoriously flaky and the alliance will have to make a big effort to protect them. i.e. fast response to attacks, more roaming gangs etc etc ==> more PVP Razz

As for the ISK generation potential of LVL 4s versus 0.0 I have read several people suggesting a 30 to 55 million ISK per hour for level 4s. The 30 million I can just believe it possible (if you are lucky), but to achieve the 55 million it will be necesary that you can consistenly complete 3/4 high paying missions and salvage in an hour on your own. Even with two ships (one killing and one salvaging I found this very difficult). I have found that it is easier to achieve this in 0.0 even with all the risk that is involved (FUN) and the the need to do it with friends (most of the time)

From my poitn of view everything in Dominion is linked. Claiming sovereingty is expensive which requires making money (moons, rents, taxes etc), which requires renteres, which require markets, which requires more industry, which requires active defense -->resulting in more PVP, lower prices, more risk and therefore more fun


So, basically, you have no idea how EVE and 0.0 work. An officer fitted faction ship or Marauder can run large lvl 4 missions in about half an hour. The ship may cost 10b to buy and fit but with a ship like that you can't make 50m/hour ratting in 0.0. See why people are whining? Why would anyone, in their right mind, move to 0.0 when they can make even more running ****ty lvl 4 missions in safety? They're not going to, and it's amazing that after all these years CCP are INCREASING the cost of living in 0.0, encouraging even more people to move to empire to run missions.

Who cares that the alliance is rich, the individual member will never see any of the benefits because they're expected to rat and mine. It's the leadership that fly Titans, motherships and have dozens of personal carriers and dreads. While this is corrupt it's the way it is and to force the individual member earn less is stupid beyond belief. Obviously there will be many, including myself, who will not leave 0.0 but that isn't because we love ratting or mining (I absolutely love mining nearly as much as PVP) but for other reasons. If I had a choice and didn't hate missions I, too, would spend 10b on a ship to and run lvl 4 missions.

CCP and everyone who support the upcoming changes, without knowing what they're talking about, are stupid and need to play EVE, including coming and fighting in 0.0, and then claim we're complaining about nothing.

Dra Monica
Posted - 2009.11.14 18:08:00 - [3380]
 

Solution: Nerf L4 missions

Future Mutant
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.11.14 18:56:00 - [3381]
 

Originally by: Super Whopper

Who cares that the alliance is rich, the individual member will never see any of the benefits because they're expected to rat and mine. It's the leadership that fly Titans, motherships and have dozens of personal carriers and dreads. While this is corrupt it's the way it is and to force the individual member earn less is stupid beyond belief.


Nerf greedy leadership- and by all accounts the changes will raise the individuals income in null. The whine is because ppl dont think it raises it enough.

PC5
Against Polish Authorities
AAA Citizens
Posted - 2009.11.14 20:12:00 - [3382]
 

Edited by: PC5 on 14/11/2009 20:15:55
CCP = love carebears = money from subs
0.0 = bad bad... it scares carebears

So... CCP was promoting hisec.
1. Freighters... make it easy!
2. Jump freighters - haul that 100b stuff pressing F1 - why to bother creating corp/alliance convoys? No no no...
3. Capital industrial ships = more carebears toys
4. T2 ore ships - just watch those 20 mackinaws in hisec ice belt
5. Maruders - new toys for our best customers! Farm those lvl4 boys! ;)
6. LP store... its good but who uses it mostly... carebears! :)
7. Invention... its good also but its hisec friendly. No need to do it in 0.0
8. POSes in hisec... carebears CANT go to lovsec or 0.0 so lets bring POSes to them! Sure they like it!
9. Faction modules - mostly from LP store. Yay!
10. When suicide BS gangs started to melt freighters - boost concord!
11. ORCA - now they will love us!
12. Nerf motherships because they were sitting at lovsec gates and killing stuff. To powerful for carebears!
13. Give haulers cloak... cool. 0 risk in logistics.
14. Lets make ship for PvPers, call it Black Ops, ZOMG WTF Tech2 BATTLESHIP! Wait... it costs 700m... sh**.
15. Lets make lvl4 eaysier so more ppl can do them.
16. EPIC ARCs! They are for you dear carebears!
17. Market improvments, new api toys - cool for carebears.
18. Lovering skill requirements = long skills and proffesions are bad bad...
19. COSMOS... yes there is COSMOS in 0.0 only few ppl know how to make billions on it (hidden agents), in hisec its like 'its here come and do it!'.
20. DONT REMOVE LOCAL! Carebears HAVE TO see who is coming to system where they are npcing!

Enough.
And what CCP done for 0.0? Hmmm... Maybe mining... no its better to do lvl4. Maybe killing rats on belts? Hmmm... NPCs are same, more officers but they are empty and do less damage, there are also FEW scrambling frigates. Hmm... oh yes, blob wars, pos wars, capitals online ;) Great (!) sov, titans killing fleet fun with one key press - SUPERB!

Ok CCP done some good things for 0.0 like...
1. interdictors!
2. ...
3. hmmm..
4. titans? motherships!
5. POS bashing
6. ...

Ok only 1 abd 4 are good ;)

ATM 0.0 is empty, boring and forgoten. Hi-end billion moons are one of few reasons to live there.

I hope dominion will change something. 0.0 is crap, WH space is new 0.0 Lets see what those changes will bring.

And remember! Dear PvPers carebears gives most money to CCP so dont expect dramatic changes! ;)

(sry for my english).

Tesal
Posted - 2009.11.14 21:01:00 - [3383]
 

Edited by: Tesal on 14/11/2009 21:23:43
Edited by: Tesal on 14/11/2009 21:18:02
Edited by: Tesal on 14/11/2009 21:11:44
Edited by: Tesal on 14/11/2009 21:08:09
Edited by: Tesal on 14/11/2009 21:06:12
Originally by: Super Whopper


So, basically, you have no idea how EVE and 0.0 work. An officer fitted faction ship or Marauder can run large lvl 4 missions in about half an hour. The ship may cost 10b to buy and fit but with a ship like that you can't make 50m/hour ratting in 0.0. See why people are whining? Why would anyone, in their right mind, move to 0.0 when they can make even more running ****ty lvl 4 missions in safety? They're not going to, and it's amazing that after all these years CCP are INCREASING the cost of living in 0.0, encouraging even more people to move to empire to run missions.

Who cares that the alliance is rich, the individual member will never see any of the benefits because they're expected to rat and mine. It's the leadership that fly Titans, motherships and have dozens of personal carriers and dreads. While this is corrupt it's the way it is and to force the individual member earn less is stupid beyond belief. Obviously there will be many, including myself, who will not leave 0.0 but that isn't because we love ratting or mining (I absolutely love mining nearly as much as PVP) but for other reasons. If I had a choice and didn't hate missions I, too, would spend 10b on a ship to and run lvl 4 missions.

CCP and everyone who support the upcoming changes, without knowing what they're talking about, are stupid and need to play EVE, including coming and fighting in 0.0, and then claim we're complaining about nothing.


How many people spend 10b these days on a ratting ship? Economically that is stupid, that is not why they do that. A ship that expensive WILL BE GANKED if it gets scanned. Easily worth flying in 10bs and blowing it up. Also, it would cost 300 hours of labor just to buy the ship. That is far more than most players will tolerate. Isk earning is closer to 30m isk per hour, not 50. The people who fly those are collectors, who like to rat and show off, and don't even need the isk. The overwhelming majority fly T2 fit ships.

I see you in this thread calling other people idiots for not understanding this or that. Clearly you have **** for brains and as for your opinions I have about the same respect them for as your intelligence.

I hate to rat, so I use 2 or 3 BS but haven't done that in months. I can earn about 50-100m isk a day afk. So I can earn 1 or 2 billion a month without too much trouble. I can earn more if I am not lazy. Most people who can't earn money who have been playing a long time just are not trying. Grind some data core, get some trade going, build some stuff, do a few reactions and you are rich *****!

*edit
Also consider where that officer and faction crap worth 10b or 300 hours of ratting comes from.

*edit
You should be praising the people putting stupidly expensive modules on their care bear ratting ships. That money goes straight to 0.0.

*edit
If you want to see the real isk in this game, jump into any .3 system one jump out of high sec and pop a scan. Its faction towers on every moon running moon goo. They are usually alt corps backed by the big guys. They probably have dread fleets at their disposal in most cases.

*edit
In 0.0 and wormholes, people are producers of high end gear and materials. They sell to empire where they purchase low end materials and gear to build cap ships or they don't even buy from them at all. That is how it works. The big 0.0 powers also control the best resources in low sec and rake in resources from there too, selling to the carebears in Jita and all the hubs.

*edit
Most of the people here have no clue how the EvE economy works. They think that nerfing level 4 missions will help them. Level 4 missions are what provide the isk for people to buy goods from 0.0. This is the source of gold for moon goo.

Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.14 21:57:00 - [3384]
 

Ive been in 0.0 for close to three years.. I really wish I had all the dirty moongold isk that Tesal and others like him seem to think I have. Very Happy

The reality is that Ive made more in 3 months with an empire hauler/trade alt than I have in all my time in 0.0

Tesal
Posted - 2009.11.14 22:05:00 - [3385]
 

Originally by: Trent Nichols
Ive been in 0.0 for close to three years.. I really wish I had all the dirty moongold isk that Tesal and others like him seem to think I have. Very Happy

The reality is that Ive made more in 3 months with an empire hauler/trade alt than I have in all my time in 0.0


The cash for moons and moon gold is made at the top levels of the alliance. Every now and then you will hear about what they have if there is a big corp theft, 70b or 50 dreads will vanish and someone will be like "I'm rich *****". The "grunts" usually never see or even hear about it except when knocking down towers on top of a fancy moon.

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2009.11.14 23:45:00 - [3386]
 

Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Super Whopper

Who cares that the alliance is rich, the individual member will never see any of the benefits because they're expected to rat and mine. It's the leadership that fly Titans, motherships and have dozens of personal carriers and dreads. While this is corrupt it's the way it is and to force the individual member earn less is stupid beyond belief.


Nerf greedy leadership- and by all accounts the changes will raise the individuals income in null.


Yes there are only about 100 pages of posts in this thread explaining why it wont do that.

Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.15 00:39:00 - [3387]
 

Nerf moons and make 0.0 space itself worth taking. This is what we hoped dominion was going to do up until this blog.

Future Mutant
Republic Military School
Posted - 2009.11.15 01:28:00 - [3388]
 

HI! Lvl 4 mission runner here! And yes i am making as much as you think i am- all in the complete saftey of hi sec!

But if you want to make as much isk as me- prepare to do as much work as me.

Get off your lazy hippy asses and start working for that isk.

darkneko
Posted - 2009.11.15 05:55:00 - [3389]
 

whats the point!!! I say just make an entire new universe but fill it with enemies!!!! **** the NPC are nothing give the whole eve community something to fight and kill... i thought they would be doing that with the sleepers, but no they never leave their Worm holes i say let them come to us have them attack stations make their Ai better lets us actually MAP and Name WH space and make our own star gates we don't need more influence... we need LESS let us build every thing from the ground up not buy it premade from boring NPC that give us the same missions over and over. give us an something new not just more of an add on

Tesal
Posted - 2009.11.15 07:17:00 - [3390]
 

Originally by: Trent Nichols
Nerf moons and make 0.0 space itself worth taking. This is what we hoped dominion was going to do up until this blog.


If you look at the actual content of what is happening with moons you would see its not strictly a nerf of moons. Dyspro is getting hammered, racial metals get a buff as do low ends, and other high and mid ends get new positions. In short, the same isk is spread over more moons. This makes it more likely that more people can get into moon mining and actually make isk from it. They may not make tens of billions a month, but a clever alliance can certainly get a ship replacement program going by grabbing moons. The incentive for war remains.


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