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Vladimir Griftin
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.11.12 10:14:00 - [3301]
 

Edited by: Vladimir Griftin on 12/11/2009 10:14:14
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Why stop there? It only makes sense if the holding corp building up infrastructure in the system gets an additional bounty for each rat killed in that system. It would make perfect sense to help strangers come to your space, or at least parts of your space, to make money and earn you a nice profit too.
That would help populate 0.0. And people who get sucked into 0.0 are likely to stay there and fight. For their own space, for the space they lived in, or whatever people like to fight for.


I think any system that gave individuals the opportunity to 'work' for the space would be great (wasn't that a primary stated goal?). Not some magical development index that creates anomalies, something that creates cold hard ISK for the people paying for the space.

Upgrading a system currently is a pointless waste of ISK for the holders, so they just wont do it. Why would an alliance upgrade space if they were simply paying out a crippling amount of ISK and never seeing any return?

Under the current system I can see most alliances upgrading a few key systems in order to use Jump Bridges and just covering the rest with flags, and only flags in order to retain a buffer.

It will be much like we have now, only more ISK will need to be forked out, and all the industrial's will operate from empire.

Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
Not Found.
Posted - 2009.11.12 10:57:00 - [3302]
 

Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal
A majority of vocal forum goers seem unhappy. That isn't the same as a majority of players. (in general forums are visited by a minority to start with)



Classical politician argument : The majority don't speak, so they agree with us (same if we know that it is wrong, it just to shut up some protesters with a twisted logic) Cool

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.11.12 11:04:00 - [3303]
 

Quote:

Welcome to the new landscape, where sov is more contestable, moon goo income is distributed, and alliances have to been all around pvp, pve and mining, and actually LIVING in their space!



Why should they LIVE in that space?

Aquinzus
Amarr
Modern Marvels
Posted - 2009.11.12 12:04:00 - [3304]
 

After speaking to many of the larger Alliances about after Dominion allowing my small crew move to 0.0 and claim a single system we were met with either pay us rent, no, let me scam you, pay rent, no, pay rent, hell no, let me scam you some more, so for smaller operations to actually move to 0.0 it is just not going to happen because the guys with the bigger guns are still going to dictate what and who are allowed to move in reguardless of if they have Sov in a system or not.

Ra Jackson
PILSGESCHWADER
Monkey Circus
Posted - 2009.11.12 12:18:00 - [3305]
 

Originally by: Pointfive
There needs to be reasons to live in the space and reasons to want to take over space. With this current setup the majority of players are still going to make their money in empire and as making money is a pretty large part of the game, they will be spending most of their time in empire. I have to believe someone on the dev team understands this.I think tying the systems to true sec might help. At least then some space is better than other space. A max upgraded system of the lowest true sec should be on par with level 4 income. The highest sec status max upgraded should be 250% of level 4s. I dont think 0.0 dwellers want to pve all day and get rich. They want to pve less and have some territory conflict.

There should also be some upgrades that draw out industry people. I think system upgrades that focues on giving 0.0 industry would be nice. Make it so only the best systems can have these upgrades turning the best true se systems into both pve. and market hubs.

An upgrade that lowers build time.
An upgrade that makes tech invention easier.
An upgrade that allows you to build ships for less minerals, but those ships can never go to empire. Just make up some bs about them using illegal materials and being dangerous.
Have minerals that can only be used in nullsec and can be used to build ships more efficiently, again dangerous unregulated minerals that oncord will blwo you up for trying to take to high sec.



This. CCP, give this man a job.
If nullsec is not better than empire.. well, why live there?

Jovialmadness
Posted - 2009.11.12 13:49:00 - [3306]
 

Quote:
Excuse me, Mr. Clever****. But who the f*** are you for telling the forum who is who and put labels?
I'm not a forum vocal for anyone. I speak for myself and if you are unable to understand what is going on OR you don't like what we have to say
Quote:
null
as base players, plz refrain yourself for twisting/manipulating/bull****ting this thread.


maybe you should st&$ and stay out bro. He is right. The warrioirs come out to play every time something big happens..you should know this. I do because I am one. Now go crawl back under your bed and spew that bile somewhere else.

Hrodgar Ortal
Minmatar
Ma'adim Logistics
Posted - 2009.11.12 14:04:00 - [3307]
 

Originally by: WaiKin Beldar
Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal
Originally by: Manfred Sideous
CCP Please I ask you please push back the launch of Dominion. A very good majority of players are unhappy with what you have showed us so far.


A majority of vocal forum goers seem unhappy. That isn't the same as a majority of players. (in general forums are visited by a minority to start with)



Excuse me, Mr. Clever****. But who the f*** are you for telling the forum who is who and put labels?
I'm not a forum vocal for anyone. I speak for myself and if you are unable to understand what is going on OR you don't like what we have to say as base players, plz refrain yourself for twisting/manipulating/bull****ting this thread.


Thats Mr. Ortal to you haha

Who I am?
Well I'm someone who never talks for anyone other than myself. I responded to one thing there, he is assuming he speaks for the majority, the majority has in most likelihood not read nor cared about this thread so assuming he speaks for them and asking for a expansion delay since he speaks for the majority isn't very sincere.
Show me the census data that shows he is speaking for the majority of players and not for the majority of players in this thread?
There is none. He can not claim to speak for the majority unless he can back that up with anything.

If he, you and others in this thread want to delay, say so. You will probably be very disappointed with the result as you will probably not get one.

But try to be a bit more polite and not use that many swearwords next time. Asterisks are a bit annoying to read.


Honest Smedley
Posted - 2009.11.12 14:04:00 - [3308]
 

Originally by: Jovialmadness
Quote:
Excuse me, Mr. Clever****. But who the f*** are you for telling the forum who is who and put labels?
I'm not a forum vocal for anyone. I speak for myself and if you are unable to understand what is going on OR you don't like what we have to say
Quote:
null
as base players, plz refrain yourself for twisting/manipulating/bull****ting this thread.


maybe you should st&$ and stay out bro. He is right. The warrioirs come out to play every time something big happens..you should know this. I do because I am one. Now go crawl back under your bed and spew that bile somewhere else.

Top Forum Warriors In Thread
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
93 - Kepakh
83 - Qlanth - Merch Industrial, GoonSwarm
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59 - Vivian Azure
58 - EdFromHumanResources - GoonFleet, GoonSwarm
51 - Tesal
47 - gambrinous
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45 - Vadinho - GoonFleet, GoonSwarm
44 - Zahorite
41 - Destrim - Koshaku
40 - Pointfive
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25 - Marlona Sky - D00M., Triumvirate.
23 - Herschel Yamamoto - Agent-Orange
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23 - Bobby Atlas - Di-Tron Heavy Industries, Atlas Alliance
22 - Niamota Olin
22 - Mrs Trzzbk - Mothership Connection Inc., GoonSwarm
22 - Ukucia - The Scope
21 - Ranger 1 - Dynaverse Corporation, Vertigo Coalition
21 - Tippia - raddick Explorations
20 - Kayl Breinhar - GoonFleet, GoonSwarm
20 - Graalum - Di-Tron Heavy Industries, Atlas Alliance
20 - Deva Blackfire - 24th Imperial Crusade

Honest Smedley
Posted - 2009.11.12 14:16:00 - [3309]
 

Originally by: WaiKin Beldar
Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal
Originally by: Manfred Sideous
CCP Please I ask you please push back the launch of Dominion. A very good majority of players are unhappy with what you have showed us so far.


A majority of vocal forum goers seem unhappy. That isn't the same as a majority of players. (in general forums are visited by a minority to start with)



Excuse me, Mr. Clever****. But who the f*** are you for telling the forum who is who and put labels?
I'm not a forum vocal for anyone. I speak for myself and if you are unable to understand what is going on OR you don't like what we have to say as base players, plz refrain yourself for twisting/manipulating/bull****ting this thread.

Clearly this is a representative slice of the EvE player base and not just a majority of vocal forum goers. Cool

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gnome blood
Posted - 2009.11.12 14:53:00 - [3310]
 

Edited by: gnome blood on 12/11/2009 14:54:59

1. Where did CCP state that Dominion was meant to address 0.0 economics?
There are issues, and CCP know about them. The words extensible and infrastructure seem to pass people by. One has to wonder how these people survive in nullsec as it is.

2. Most of the whines about the new sov system appear to be protection of investment, lack of imagination, laziness or failure in basic reading comprehension.

There are legitimate concerns, but Dominion 1.0a on December 1st is not the final word on sov mechanics or nullsec.

edit for typo.

Rolling Eyes


WaiKin Beldar
Tormentum Insomniae
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:02:00 - [3311]
 

Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal
Originally by: WaiKin Beldar
Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal
Originally by: Manfred Sideous
CCP Please I ask you please push back the launch of Dominion. A very good majority of players are unhappy with what you have showed us so far.


A majority of vocal forum goers seem unhappy. That isn't the same as a majority of players. (in general forums are visited by a minority to start with)



Excuse me, Mr. Clever****. But who the f*** are you for telling the forum who is who and put labels?
I'm not a forum vocal for anyone. I speak for myself and if you are unable to understand what is going on OR you don't like what we have to say as base players, plz refrain yourself for twisting/manipulating/bull****ting this thread.


Thats Mr. Ortal to you haha

Who I am?
Well I'm someone who never talks for anyone other than myself. I responded to one thing there, he is assuming he speaks for the majority, the majority has in most likelihood not read nor cared about this thread so assuming he speaks for them and asking for a expansion delay since he speaks for the majority isn't very sincere.
Show me the census data that shows he is speaking for the majority of players and not for the majority of players in this thread?
There is none. He can not claim to speak for the majority unless he can back that up with anything.

If he, you and others in this thread want to delay, say so. You will probably be very disappointed with the result as you will probably not get one.

But try to be a bit more polite and not use that many swearwords next time. Asterisks are a bit annoying to read.




Dude, we're not interested on census, data or any other statistics. Keep yourself on the topic or go with your garbage anywhere else.

Btw, blunt data manipulation, as you are trying to make effective, is a serious lack of politeness to any intelligent person.

Kernok
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:12:00 - [3312]
 

Edited by: Kernok on 12/11/2009 15:14:28

Vladimir Griftin
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:39:00 - [3313]
 

Originally by: gnome blood

1. Where did CCP state that Dominion was meant to address 0.0 economics?



In a dev blog entitled 'The Streams Must Flow'

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:45:00 - [3314]
 

Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
Originally by: gnome blood
1. Where did CCP state that Dominion was meant to address 0.0 economics?
In a dev blog entitled 'The Streams Must Flow'
…and fanfest before that.
…and alliance tournament 7 before that.
…and hints towards the winter expansion before that.
Originally by: gnobe blood
2. Most of the whines about the new sov system appear to be protection of investment
They may appear that way, but are in fact about the lack of incentives in 0.0 compared to highsec and about falling very short of the stated goals to compress the nullsec territories (yes, you read that right: the current nullsec dwellers are complaining that they will not hold less space after the patch).

WaiKin Beldar
Tormentum Insomniae
Raiden.
Posted - 2009.11.12 15:57:00 - [3315]
 

Edited by: WaiKin Beldar on 12/11/2009 16:13:14
Edited by: WaiKin Beldar on 12/11/2009 16:11:48
Originally by: Jovialmadness
Quote:
...
stuff
...


maybe you should st&$ and stay out bro. He is right. The warrioirs come out to play every time something big happens..you should know this. I do because I am one. Now go crawl back under your bed and spew that bile somewhere else.


Thank you very much for enlightening me on how supportive is the Forum Warrior Guild among yourselves. Really interesting, but again, could you plz focus on the topic and post something interesting?

Originally by: gnome blood
Edited by: gnome blood on 12/11/2009 14:54:59

1. Where did CCP state that Dominion was meant to address 0.0 economics?
There are issues, and CCP know about them. The words extensible and infrastructure seem to pass people by. One has to wonder how these people survive in nullsec as it is.

2. Most of the whines about the new sov system appear to be protection of investment, lack of imagination, laziness or failure in basic reading comprehension.

There are legitimate concerns, but Dominion 1.0a on December 1st is not the final word on sov mechanics or nullsec.

edit for typo.

Rolling Eyes




Tell me something that doesn't affect EVE's economy within the game.
Tell me HOW YOU PLAY THIS GAME without protecting YOUR investments.

And yes, we're pretty aware that the final word on Dominion for the 1st of December has not been said. Mainly for three reasons:

First- because no one is interested enough to keep a treadnought of 111 pages without valid reasons to be concerned on playing this game and we're here to make sure those reasons are taken into consideration by CCP.

Second- because we're still awaiting for an official answer from CCP to see how much player's feedback they have digested and how this thing will be finally regurgitated.

Third- because everybody knows that after its first release, Dominion will be far from running smoothly wit so many changes.




Tesal
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:02:00 - [3316]
 

Originally by: gnome blood
Edited by: gnome blood on 12/11/2009 14:54:59

1. Where did CCP state that Dominion was meant to address 0.0 economics?
There are issues, and CCP know about them. The words extensible and infrastructure seem to pass people by. One has to wonder how these people survive in nullsec as it is.

2. Most of the whines about the new sov system appear to be protection of investment, lack of imagination, laziness or failure in basic reading comprehension.

There are legitimate concerns, but Dominion 1.0a on December 1st is not the final word on sov mechanics or nullsec.

edit for typo.

Rolling Eyes




To address your first point: At the corp and alliance level, people survive with moon gold, it dumps lots of isk into the alliance wallet. From there, corps and individuals often do reactions and other projects which siphon off isk. I suspect that will be the case moving forward.

Sellmewarez
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:14:00 - [3317]
 

Edited by: Sellmewarez on 12/11/2009 17:17:47
You are all playing the game the wrong way, CCP has made it clear with their recent announcements that empire is truely where its at. So lets all go back to running missions, i know i am.

I will probably get really bored and stop playing but hey, thats $35 less i need to pay everytime Cool


Nick Bison
Gallente
Bison Industrial Inc
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:26:00 - [3318]
 

Originally by: Sellmewarez
Edited by: Sellmewarez on 12/11/2009 17:17:47
You are all playing the game the wrong way, CCP has made it clear with their recent announcements that empire is truely where its at. So lets all go back to running missions, i know i am.

I will probably get really bored and stop playing but hey, thats $35 less i need to pay everytime Cool




Followed by the obligatory, "can I have your stuff"
Very Happy

Propotkin
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:32:00 - [3319]
 

Originally by: Aquinzus
After speaking to many of the larger Alliances about after Dominion allowing my small crew move to 0.0 and claim a single system we were met with either pay us rent, no, let me scam you, pay rent, no, pay rent, hell no, let me scam you some more, so for smaller operations to actually move to 0.0 it is just not going to happen because the guys with the bigger guns are still going to dictate what and who are allowed to move in reguardless of if they have Sov in a system or not.


So true, wether or not one of the larger alliances actually hold the space the smaller alliances aren't going to be able to afford the system isk sink, the pos fuel and the rent the larger alliance wants (to fund them being afk in stations waiting for the alliance fleet op to start).

Ukucia
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.11.12 17:53:00 - [3320]
 

Originally by: Nhor Haen
Yeah, I don't really buy that small alliances wont be able to hold space. It costs 20b to build an outpost, and if you're looking at that level of investment even the original costs are quite affordable (alternately, if you're planning on stealing one, stop complaining about having to pay 1/20th the value in maintenance fees). If you're just planning on operating in an empty system without an outpost, you don't really need sov at all.

Because you need more than cash to hold space.

The little guys won't be able to hold space because the big guys will destroy them. Because the big guys still need just about the same amount of space to support themselves.

With craptacular upgrades, it also doesn't make sense to pay protection money to one of the big guys. They're not gonna let you use their valuable systems, and there's no way to upgrade their crappy systems to the point where they are worthwhile.

Ukucia
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.11.12 18:07:00 - [3321]
 

Edited by: Ukucia on 12/11/2009 18:10:02
Originally by: gnome blood
Edited by: gnome blood on 12/11/2009 14:54:59

1. Where did CCP state that Dominion was meant to address 0.0 economics?
There are issues, and CCP know about them. The words extensible and infrastructure seem to pass people by. One has to wonder how these people survive in nullsec as it is.

Welcome to EvE Online. Since you're so new, you might want to spend some time reading the "New Citizens" Board.

On the left side of this page, you'll find the Dev Blogs under the "Eve Insider" heading. Once there you can work your way back to the older blogs, and read about how Dominion was supposed to allow 0.0 alliances to upgrade their systems to support 50-100 people per system.

Also since you're so new here, let me tell you a little bit about 'extensible infrastructure'. Once upon a time, the players really hated the random missions. They're dull, pointless, repetitive and don't make you feel like you're actually doing anything since they don't change anything in the game world.

So the devs created an 'extensible framework' for creating new, more interesting missions and called them "COSMOS". Initially, they decided to roll out a tiny number of missions, but the new extensible framework was going to make it so easy to add missions that soon space would be littered with missions.

Then the next expansion happened, and there were a few new COSMOS missions. They pushed back new missions for Gallente and Amarr, but that was ok, their new extensible infrastructure meant they'd be in soon after.

Oh, except they weren't ever added. And that wonderful 'extensible infrastructure' was never used again.

You'll find a repeating pattern with all of CCP's new, exciting extensible infrastructures. From POSes to stations to outposts to mining to trading to missions to T3 subsystems, they never release more than a tiny fraction of the promised improvements that their extensible infrastructures are supposed to bring.

So we're complaining mightily because we've been here for a while, and we know we've only got Dominion and probably 1 follow-on where they do something about the upgrades. They'll release most of the changes in the first one, a few more and some 'fixes' in the follow-on while promising more stuff soon™. Thus if the first batch is terrible, the entire system is gonna be "meh" at best. We'd much rather they start with good and then do better with the follow-on.

Quote:
2. Most of the whines about the new sov system appear to be protection of investment, lack of imagination, laziness or failure in basic reading comprehension.

It only seems this way if you have faith that CCP will follow through. Their track record says otherwise. Something new and shiny will come along (Incarna, DUST, planets) and it will be years before they look back at the upgrades again.

Zixie Draco
Tactical Knightmare
Posted - 2009.11.12 18:14:00 - [3322]
 

Originally by: Ukucia
Edited by: Ukucia on 12/11/2009 18:10:02
Originally by: gnome blood
Edited by: gnome blood on 12/11/2009 14:54:59

1. Where did CCP state that Dominion was meant to address 0.0 economics?
There are issues, and CCP know about them. The words extensible and infrastructure seem to pass people by. One has to wonder how these people survive in nullsec as it is.

Welcome to EvE Online. Since you're so new, you might want to spend some time reading the "New Citizens" Board.

On the left side of this page, you'll find the Dev Blogs under the "Eve Insider" heading. Once there you can work your way back to the older blogs, and read about how Dominion was supposed to allow 0.0 alliances to upgrade their systems to support 50-100 people per system.

Also since you're so new here, let me tell you a little bit about 'extensible infrastructure'. Once upon a time, the players really hated the random missions. They're dull, pointless, repetitive and don't make you feel like you're actually doing anything since they don't change anything in the game world.

So the devs created an 'extensible framework' for creating new, more interesting missions and called them "COSMOS". Initially, they decided to roll out a tiny number of missions, but the new extensible framework was going to make it so easy to add missions that soon space would be littered with missions.

Then the next expansion happened, and there were a few new COSMOS missions. They pushed back new missions for Gallente and Amarr, but that was ok, their new extensible infrastructure meant they'd be in soon after.

Oh, except they weren't ever added. And that wonderful 'extensible infrastructure' was never used again.

You'll find a repeating pattern with all of CCP's new, exciting extensible infrastructures. From POSes to stations to outposts to mining to trading to missions to T3 subsystems, they never release more than a tiny fraction of the promised improvements that their extensible infrastructures are supposed to bring.

So we're complaining mightily because we've been here for a while, and we know we've only got Dominion and probably 1 follow-on where they do something about the upgrades. They'll release most of the changes in the first one, a few more and some 'fixes' in the follow-on while promising more stuff soon™. Thus if the first batch is terrible, the entire system is gonna be "meh" at best. We'd much rather they start with good and then do better with the follow-on.

Quote:
2. Most of the whines about the new sov system appear to be protection of investment, lack of imagination, laziness or failure in basic reading comprehension.

It only seems this way if you have faith that CCP will follow through. Their track record says otherwise. Something new and shiny will come along (Incarna, DUST, planets) and it will be years before they look back at the upgrades again.


read it guys...now THIS is how you tank a forumVery Happy

Kanatta Jing
Posted - 2009.11.12 18:58:00 - [3323]
 

A cumulative 2% chance per level of Pirate magnet of an anomaly belonging to a different Pirate faction then normal would be nice.

Just due to market rarity it would help generate wealth.

Mr Tycho
Posted - 2009.11.12 20:27:00 - [3324]
 

Sorry if this has been ask in the last 100 pgs

Is the Jump Bridge cost for each Jump Bridge, or for the ability to have them?

Is there still a two JB max in systems?

Lupus Aurelius
Drama Llamas
Posted - 2009.11.12 23:11:00 - [3325]
 

Please forgive me if any of this has already been covered, but I have been plowing thru the 111 pages, and my brain is becoming mush…..

Discussion of the rewards vs. risks, and making 0.0 more profitable, costs for maintenance, impacts on territory claimed, etc, seems to be what most of the discussion has been. But one issue I do not see really being addressed is the mechanics of how those “rewards” transfer up to the alliance level. Increased spawns, bounties, mineral concentrations are all fine, but none of that transfers directly in any way to an alliance.

Best case scenario is bounties are taxed by the corporation, but that does not necessarily transfer up to an alliance level. Also, in NRDS space, where I reside, anything done by non-alliance members of the sov holder would flow into the neutral party’s wallet and not the entity controlling that space. Other than outpost fees, there is no mechanism for this atm.

What really needs to be addressed is how the isk potential of a system gets translated into the sov holding entity’s wallet, thus financing system maintenance fees and upgrades. The ability of the sov holder to impose a usage tax, as suggested earlier, would allow for NRDS entities to continue with allowing neutral parties, or blue non-alliance members, to contribute to the upkeep of that space, instead of being a drain that draws isk away from the sov holder.

Also, the ability of an alliance to impose a tax rate on it’s individual members in their member corporations would also provide for an instant transfer of funds, removing the need to filter it through the member corp via an alliance membership fee. Even for an NBSI alliance holding sov, allowing an alliance blue to you to rat/plex/mine in your space would see none of the potential earnings contributing at all to the upkeep of the system.

Market transactions in sov holding alliance’s outpost allow for taxing activity, but nothing prevent a miner, trader, or industrialist, from merely transporting their goods to a hisec station for sale, thus negating any benefit for the activity performed in that space. Even some form of gate fee per usage, going to the sov holder, for non-alliance members utilizing gates, based on type/mass of the ship, would alleviate that situation.

Face it, there has got to be a direct mechanism that a sov holder can utilize that will create a direct transfer of the isk potential of a system. Otherwise, for NRDS, you might as well close the door, and for NBSI, you’ll be kicking your allies out of your space all the time.

Chloe Ridenster
Posted - 2009.11.13 00:30:00 - [3326]
 

Anyone from CCP mind to explain why you think anomalies in 0.0 should be on par with level 4 missions in motsu? Don't you think it's a little bit broken, if you can earn the same amount of isk in high sec as in 0.0? What's about risk vs reward? I fail to see the risk in high sec.
Why on earth should someone bother with anomalies in 0.0, if he can stay in safe high sec and earn exactly the same? And not only that's he's safe in motsu, no he also gets easy access to all market hubs where he can sell his loot at decent prices. While in 0.0 he first have to manage to bring his stuff to high sec. And moving stuff through 0.0, isn't really the same as moving stuff through high sec. Even if you have got a jump freighter, it's damn expensive to buy one and you need someone who provides you cynos (might be an alt, but it's still more effort and risk involved).
Nobody bothers with anomalies, let's face the facts. Ratting provides a much better income than anomalies. Only if you have really really crap rats e.g. in a -0.01 true sec system, anomalies might be worth your time. But than again, why should someone bother if he easily could do missions in high sec?

So how should all that encourage people to move to 0.0? It's quite the opposite, you must be dumb to leave safe space only to earn the same while having a lot more risk and effort. And now you want people to even pay 1 bil per month for earning the same? Seriously are you kidding me?

If you want to encourage people to move to 0.0, you have to offer them something better than they already have. Offering just the same does not work. That's like offering somebody a 3 room apartment while he already have one. Why should this person take all the stress and costs a migration bring with it, if there isn't any benefit?

The risk vs reward is already broken for a long time. It's no news that level 4 missions in high sec provides a better and safer income than most 0.0 activities. And now you're going to make it even worse.
Stop it and FIX IT FINALLY NOW!
I don't care if you need some time to do that. Take all the time you need, but do it!

I really have looked forward to dominion. I have lived in 0.0 for a long time, but became sick of all the blobs and pos bashing. My initial plan was to move back into 0.0 when dominion will be deployed. But now i'm really disappointed. All i can see is a big grind. And i don't like that. Looks like i'm going to stay in wh space. No blobs, no pos bashing, no local in there and as a bonus a good income. That's how 0.0 is supposed to be! You managed it to create such an awesome place with wh's, i really can't understand what's so hard at doing the same in 0.0?

PS: I apologize for my bad english, it's not my native language but i felt the need of telling you that.

Gober Pile
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2009.11.13 02:38:00 - [3327]
 

Well after reading that all I can say is

If the aim was to open nullsec to new alliances and corps you failed completley with the costings model your using.

The main reason many leave nullspace to the blob allainces IS the upkeep costs, now you are basically keeping that barrier in place, al be it without the logistical issues that Towers bring, BUT 210 million a WEEK just to maintin sov, that is overpriced.

Smaller alliances now MUST focus on isk generation to pay this upkeep, and the blob alliances are going to be the only ones capable of keeping a PVP wing!!

I really would like to know what sized alliance/corp were these changes aimed at?

shaved chimp
Posted - 2009.11.13 03:11:00 - [3328]
 

So... why claim sovereignty? Just so you have glowing points with your name on it on the map? OK it is good for the POS business, but not at these prices. Just don't claim the SOV and live in the space you hold. What's the problem?



Daln'oboi
Posted - 2009.11.13 03:21:00 - [3329]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis

There may well be more changes to come in the days ahead and we are writing another blog which publicises the more updated figures and hoovers up lots of other important issues like specifics on transition between old and new to ensure everyone is clear on what will happen for example and any significant changes to the conquest mechanics which we need to detail if necessary.


please do not forget to publish (BEFORE Dominion hits) such currently completely overlooked details as the status of:

- POS sovereignty bonuses (because if those silently go, a LOT of people is going to have their fuel calculations borked and thousands of towers will go offline, not to mention the need to fix lots of 3rd party applications)
- constellation sovereignty bonuses (supercap shipyards invulnerability, etc)

Please, PLEASE, document the changes before you deploy the patch, and PUBLICIZE the documentation.

Major Brainfart
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.11.13 03:34:00 - [3330]
 

CCP documents NOTHING! Look at the craptacular Evelopedia wiki they gave us, all full of errors, innacuracies and just complete lack of understanding by the authors, in order to avoid the work of documenting Eve properly themselves.

Also, keep in mind that suspension of disbelief is not part of the current Eve formula. I don't think the current devs are smart enough to even attempt to maintain it. They don't seem to care, anyway. They just make up whatever arbitrary bs sounds cool to them at the time, whether it makes any sense from the perspective of the game world or not. (Look at invention and how blueprints are handled! Looks at scan probes that have a graphic showing a parabolic dish but which can't determine direction! Nothing in Eve makes any sense, we should just get used to that.)

If not for the pvp this game wouldn't be worth playing. I realize they're trying hard to ruin that too, but at least they haven't quite succeeded yet. The problem is that there are new devs who weren't around when Eve was created, and they have a big hard-on for rewriting things. Hopefully CCP gets smart and doesn't let their egos totally destroy this game for us.


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