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Lolion Reglo
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:27:00 - [3241]
 

Originally by: Arkady Sadik
For those who missed it, current SiSi prices (which can change still, of course):

TCU: 1m ISK / day
Hub: 5m ISK / day
Jump bridge: 10m ISK / day
Cyno gen: 2m ISK / day
Cyno jammer: 20m ISK / day
CSAA: 1m ISK / day


If these numbers are the new prices for begining alliance i support them whole heartedly. sounds decent imho and afordable to even to noobest of groups. NOW what ithink should happen is if they dont want big alliances to spam systems they should scale the cost of upkeep, as in if you have so many systems under your control your price per system increases 25%. then if you reach antoehr teir it goes to 50%.

That is how i understood the mechanics at fan fest as to how this would work and how i think it should still be. If we could have CCP confirm this with releasing the numbers and the scale to what its going to cost to have a super empire then all my fears of this expansion will be extinguished. they can fiddle around with quality of upgrades when it drops and adjust as needed to demand and market strength.

Ap0ll0n
Gallente
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:31:00 - [3242]
 

Originally by: Lolion Reglo
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
For those who missed it, current SiSi prices (which can change still, of course):

TCU: 1m ISK / day
Hub: 5m ISK / day
Jump bridge: 10m ISK / day
Cyno gen: 2m ISK / day
Cyno jammer: 20m ISK / day
CSAA: 1m ISK / day


If these numbers are the new prices for begining alliance i support them whole heartedly. sounds decent imho and afordable to even to noobest of groups. NOW what ithink should happen is if they dont want big alliances to spam systems they should scale the cost of upkeep, as in if you have so many systems under your control your price per system increases 25%. then if you reach antoehr teir it goes to 50%.

That is how i understood the mechanics at fan fest as to how this would work and how i think it should still be. If we could have CCP confirm this with releasing the numbers and the scale to what its going to cost to have a super empire then all my fears of this expansion will be extinguished. they can fiddle around with quality of upgrades when it drops and adjust as needed to demand and market strength.


Yeah, tbh, i dont see what people are crying about..

1m a day is cheaper than towers, and if you keep your carebearing to maybe 5-10 systems, its actually getting cheaper to hold sov..

Lolion Reglo
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:34:00 - [3243]
 

I know. For being apart of an alliance that holds about 6 or 7 systems in null sec all im concerned about is how much the price will scale and how much of a tax or lien the allaince will place on its corps to help support its claim to space. The fact the prices have dropped to this level means we can not only hold sov but also run a few POSes as well for about the same price we are currently running at.

So thank you CCP for responding to our concerns and adjusting the prices. I know you don't hear that often but hey, im just glad things seem to be looking up again.

Ukucia
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:42:00 - [3244]
 

Originally by: Ap0ll0n
Originally by: Lolion Reglo
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
For those who missed it, current SiSi prices (which can change still, of course):

TCU: 1m ISK / day
Hub: 5m ISK / day
Jump bridge: 10m ISK / day
Cyno gen: 2m ISK / day
Cyno jammer: 20m ISK / day
CSAA: 1m ISK / day


If these numbers are the new prices for begining alliance i support them whole heartedly. sounds decent imho and afordable to even to noobest of groups. NOW what ithink should happen is if they dont want big alliances to spam systems they should scale the cost of upkeep, as in if you have so many systems under your control your price per system increases 25%. then if you reach antoehr teir it goes to 50%.

That is how i understood the mechanics at fan fest as to how this would work and how i think it should still be. If we could have CCP confirm this with releasing the numbers and the scale to what its going to cost to have a super empire then all my fears of this expansion will be extinguished. they can fiddle around with quality of upgrades when it drops and adjust as needed to demand and market strength.


Yeah, tbh, i dont see what people are crying about..

1m a day is cheaper than towers, and if you keep your carebearing to maybe 5-10 systems, its actually getting cheaper to hold sov..

We're crying about the upgrades and their total worthlessness. Not the costs. Not even at the initial prices.

Zen Sung
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:53:00 - [3245]
 

I was sure there had been mention of Sentry gun upgrades at some stage so you could have some guarding your space. Did I make this up in my head or was this mentioned at some point? That was the kind of upgrade I was looking forward to with dominion. Sad

Ap0ll0n
Gallente
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.11 17:57:00 - [3246]
 

Originally by: Zen Sung
I was sure there had been mention of Sentry gun upgrades at some stage so you could have some guarding your space. Did I make this up in my head or was this mentioned at some point? That was the kind of upgrade I was looking forward to with dominion. Sad


That wont happen. That would ruin small roaming gangs..

Zen Sung
Posted - 2009.11.11 18:15:00 - [3247]
 

Setting aside the fact it should be hard for small roaming gangs to challenge people in their sovereign space, there could always be workarounds (making player turrets vulnerable to ecm is just one thing that comes instantly to mind).

Tamahra
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2009.11.11 18:18:00 - [3248]
 

Hey i have an idea, please quote if you find it good:

Why not scale the upkeep costs by the amount of solar systems that you own, lets say in steps of 5 solar systems.

Lets say the upkeep costs for each of the first 5 solar systems that you own, are (im taking the numbers from the current sisi build)

TCU: 1m ISK / day
Hub: 5m ISK / day
Jump bridge: 10m ISK / day
Cyno gen: 2m ISK / day
Cyno jammer: 20m ISK / day
CSAA: 1m ISK / day

The 6th through 10th solar systems that you own, will have increased upkeep costs, lets say by 30%.

The 11th through 15th solar systems that you own, will have even more increased upkeep costs, lets say by 60%.

And so on.

BUT STILL: The Upgrade Levels will grant you a discount on the upkeep costs for each individual solar system.

That way, both smaller and big alliances can own their part of the space, and still CCP could prevent a single alliance from gaining domination over several regions.

Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.11 18:30:00 - [3249]
 

Honestly I would have been fine with the old prices. it's the supposed "upgrades" that need to be reworked.

Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.11 18:34:00 - [3250]
 

Edited by: Qlanth on 11/11/2009 18:33:51
Originally by: Mokita
maybe if we increase the spawn rates of things that are both unpopular and unprofitable, people will use them to make more isk


This quote basically applies to every single infrastructure hub upgrade except the complex spawning one.

Roger Douglas
Infinite Improbability Inc
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2009.11.11 18:34:00 - [3251]
 

Originally by: Qlanth
Honestly I would have been fine with the old prices. it's the supposed "upgrades" that need to be reworked.


I can't believe I agree with goons, but he's right. What is the universe coming to?

Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.11 18:37:00 - [3252]
 

Another thing I have been purposely avoiding but is a problem I have feared since the announcement of R64 nerf is: What exactly is my motivation for taking new space?

I can imagine some of my alliance's enemies will be trying to take our space for the sake of pure revenge but what is supposed to fuel my fire after the first 6 months? 0.0 needs something static to fight over as for years the only thing alliances EVER fought over were:

Static complexes
Static R64 moons

Both of which have been nerfed.

Niamota Olin
Posted - 2009.11.11 18:58:00 - [3253]
 

I still think the best thing they could do is make a cyno jammer a pos deployable module that doesnt require sov to place. Turn it on its head from a defensive use to a genuine offensive one by forcing an alliance to pop said pos to allow there caps to get out of there space.

Its not like all the 0.0 alliances arent gonna have loads of pos's to chuck away now anyway.

So they fixed the cost thing... it wont help.

Read between the lines of all the big alliance posts they want more targets in 0.0, they word it as new pilots but some slipped, they want more people who are unprepared and weak so they can enjoy being big and nasty still...

Plenty have said it already. Big alliance dont need sov to hold space.

Tamahra
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2009.11.11 18:59:00 - [3254]
 

Originally by: Qlanth
Another thing I have been purposely avoiding but is a problem I have feared since the announcement of R64 nerf is: What exactly is my motivation for taking new space?

I can imagine some of my alliance's enemies will be trying to take our space for the sake of pure revenge but what is supposed to fuel my fire after the first 6 months? 0.0 needs something static to fight over as for years the only thing alliances EVER fought over were:

Static complexes
Static R64 moons

Both of which have been nerfed.


i agree. There needs to be something worth fighting for

Professor Dumbledore
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.11 18:59:00 - [3255]
 

Originally by: Qlanth
Another thing I have been purposely avoiding but is a problem I have feared since the announcement of R64 nerf is: What exactly is my motivation for taking new space?

I can imagine some of my alliance's enemies will be trying to take our space for the sake of pure revenge but what is supposed to fuel my fire after the first 6 months? 0.0 needs something static to fight over as for years the only thing alliances EVER fought over were:

Static complexes
Static R64 moons

Both of which have been nerfed.


Not to metion the whole point of this new system is to "make your systems more proftable" what's the point of fighting over territory when you can make it all the same. CCP is ****ing ******ed but we all already knew that.

iP0D
Posted - 2009.11.11 19:01:00 - [3256]
 

Originally by: Clone 10101
Originally by: ShadowMaiden
lose Local


yes please.


Sure, less targets in space :P

Goals for Dominion:


  • bleed old x64 isk - yes, but based on very long term view

  • less grind - no, still structures / timers / blob incentives

  • faster pace of conflicts - yes, fast timers, less volume

  • repopulate space - lol, fail



If we're going to have 0.0 repopulated again, it is going to have to be worth it for people to move there, only a minority of people are not sheep, and if we want to have easy fun ganks again and preying on easy players, then we first really need to actually get them out here again Very Happy

Pointfive
Posted - 2009.11.11 19:04:00 - [3257]
 

There needs to be reasons to live in the space and reasons to want to take over space. With this current setup the majority of players are still going to make their money in empire and as making money is a pretty large part of the game, they will be spending most of their time in empire. I have to believe someone on the dev team understands this.I think tying the systems to true sec might help. At least then some space is better than other space. A max upgraded system of the lowest true sec should be on par with level 4 income. The highest sec status max upgraded should be 250% of level 4s. I dont think 0.0 dwellers want to pve all day and get rich. They want to pve less and have some territory conflict.

There should also be some upgrades that draw out industry people. I think system upgrades that focues on giving 0.0 industry would be nice. Make it so only the best systems can have these upgrades turning the best true se systems into both pve. and market hubs.

An upgrade that lowers build time.
An upgrade that makes tech invention easier.
An upgrade that allows you to build ships for less minerals, but those ships can never go to empire. Just make up some bs about them using illegal materials and being dangerous.
Have minerals that can only be used in nullsec and can be used to build ships more efficiently, again dangerous unregulated minerals that oncord will blwo you up for trying to take to high sec.

Barwinius
Ars ex Discordia
Posted - 2009.11.11 19:20:00 - [3258]
 

If Cyno Jammers are so expensive they should get a big buff. Give Cyno Jammers a HP boost!

Zastrow
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.11 19:49:00 - [3259]
 

Originally by: iP0D
Originally by: Clone 10101
Originally by: ShadowMaiden
lose Local


yes please.


Sure, less targets in space :P

Goals for Dominion:


  • bleed old x64 isk - yes, but based on very long term view

  • less grind - no, still structures / timers / blob incentives

  • faster pace of conflicts - yes, fast timers, less volume

  • repopulate space - lol, fail



If we're going to have 0.0 repopulated again, it is going to have to be worth it for people to move there, only a minority of people are not sheep, and if we want to have easy fun ganks again and preying on easy players, then we first really need to actually get them out here again Very Happy



there's no way to try to **** an alliance of "old money" without ****ing up the system for new alliances. Also why should you punish an alliance for being successful in the past by bleeding out their hard earned spacebux.

This isn't and shouldn't be a goal of Dominion. the rest- ok whatever

Nick Bison
Gallente
Bison Industrial Inc
Posted - 2009.11.11 20:01:00 - [3260]
 

Originally by: Ap0ll0n
Originally by: Zen Sung
I was sure there had been mention of Sentry gun upgrades at some stage so you could have some guarding your space. Did I make this up in my head or was this mentioned at some point? That was the kind of upgrade I was looking forward to with dominion. Sad


That wont happen. That would ruin small roaming gangs..


Question: would that ruin small roaming gangs or just the gate-camping parties? A roam keeps moving and doesn't necissarily hang out at gates long enough to get locked-up by those [email protected] sentries.

Ap0ll0n
Gallente
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.11 20:05:00 - [3261]
 

Originally by: Nick Bison
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
Originally by: Zen Sung
I was sure there had been mention of Sentry gun upgrades at some stage so you could have some guarding your space. Did I make this up in my head or was this mentioned at some point? That was the kind of upgrade I was looking forward to with dominion. Sad


That wont happen. That would ruin small roaming gangs..


Question: would that ruin small roaming gangs or just the gate-camping parties? A roam keeps moving and doesn't necissarily hang out at gates long enough to get locked-up by those [email protected] sentries.


Not taking killing ratters in belts into account, 90% of fights happens at gates, and yes, sometimes you do hold on a gate while a scout is tracking down a ratter, or your waiting for someone to jump through the gate..

CCP Chronotis

Posted - 2009.11.11 20:12:00 - [3262]
 

Originally by: Arkady Sadik
For those who missed it, current SiSi prices (which can change still, of course):

TCU: 1m ISK / day
Hub: 5m ISK / day
Jump bridge: 10m ISK / day
Cyno gen: 2m ISK / day
Cyno jammer: 20m ISK / day
CSAA: 1m ISK / day


This is correct for the current version on sisi. The only upcoming change as of today was shifting all the upkeep onto the TCU from the hub (TCU will be 6mill per day, hub will have no upkeep cost).

There may well be more changes to come in the days ahead and we are writing another blog which publicises the more updated figures and hoovers up lots of other important issues like specifics on transition between old and new to ensure everyone is clear on what will happen for example and any significant changes to the conquest mechanics which we need to detail if necessary.

Prognosys
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2009.11.11 20:13:00 - [3263]
 

Originally by: gambrinous
Originally by: KeratinBoy
What if, along with these changes, CCP decided to charge players through the nose for, well, the same experience?


The updated patch notes now state that they are trying to reduce empire alt sprawl, you know, condense empire carebears into fewer, more lucrative alts. As a result you will have to pay 7 mill a day for any character that logs on in empire. To make things more lucrative, there are now 10 more lvl 3 agents in every system.


just giving this another quote

Pointfive
Posted - 2009.11.11 20:21:00 - [3264]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
For those who missed it, current SiSi prices (which can change still, of course):

TCU: 1m ISK / day
Hub: 5m ISK / day
Jump bridge: 10m ISK / day
Cyno gen: 2m ISK / day
Cyno jammer: 20m ISK / day
CSAA: 1m ISK / day


This is correct for the current version on sisi. The only upcoming change as of today was shifting all the upkeep onto the TCU from the hub (TCU will be 6mill per day, hub will have no upkeep cost).

There may well be more changes to come in the days ahead and we are writing another blog which publicises the more updated figures and hoovers up lots of other important issues like specifics on transition between old and new to ensure everyone is clear on what will happen for example and any significant changes to the conquest mechanics which we need to detail if necessary.


Any chance we can get some response on the upgrades? Thats pretty much the main thinkg people are upset about.

skye orionis
Posted - 2009.11.11 20:23:00 - [3265]
 

Originally by: Qlanth
Another thing I have been purposely avoiding but is a problem I have feared since the announcement of R64 nerf is: What exactly is my motivation for taking new space?

I can imagine some of my alliance's enemies will be trying to take our space for the sake of pure revenge but what is supposed to fuel my fire after the first 6 months? 0.0 needs something static to fight over as for years the only thing alliances EVER fought over were:

Static complexes
Static R64 moons

Both of which have been nerfed.


How about removing all sov costs for outpost systems, that would make outpost systems worth holding.

Banlish
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2009.11.11 20:26:00 - [3266]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
For those who missed it, current SiSi prices (which can change still, of course):

TCU: 1m ISK / day
Hub: 5m ISK / day
Jump bridge: 10m ISK / day
Cyno gen: 2m ISK / day
Cyno jammer: 20m ISK / day
CSAA: 1m ISK / day


This is correct for the current version on sisi. The only upcoming change as of today was shifting all the upkeep onto the TCU from the hub (TCU will be 6mill per day, hub will have no upkeep cost).

There may well be more changes to come in the days ahead and we are writing another blog which publicises the more updated figures and hoovers up lots of other important issues like specifics on transition between old and new to ensure everyone is clear on what will happen for example and any significant changes to the conquest mechanics which we need to detail if necessary.


Any response about the upgrades that aren't going to provide the 50+ people per system that everyone is wondering about? It's the main concern really and we're wondering about other more resources to make it possible to drop more space (PLEASE) or the ability to compensate in some other way that other hasn't been released or you guys are holding back from us.

Any reply would be welcomed.

Wulfnor
Caldari
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.11 20:49:00 - [3267]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
For those who missed it, current SiSi prices (which can change still, of course):

TCU: 1m ISK / day
Hub: 5m ISK / day
Jump bridge: 10m ISK / day
Cyno gen: 2m ISK / day
Cyno jammer: 20m ISK / day
CSAA: 1m ISK / day


This is correct for the current version on sisi. The only upcoming change as of today was shifting all the upkeep onto the TCU from the hub (TCU will be 6mill per day, hub will have no upkeep cost).

There may well be more changes to come in the days ahead and we are writing another blog which publicises the more updated figures and hoovers up lots of other important issues like specifics on transition between old and new to ensure everyone is clear on what will happen for example and any significant changes to the conquest mechanics which we need to detail if necessary.


Does the CSAA upgrade allow an unlimited number of CSAAs to be placed in a system? or is there a limit that grows with cost?

SXYGeeK
Gallente
do you
Posted - 2009.11.11 20:55:00 - [3268]
 

I'm very concerned about how dificult it is to get the military index up, especialy in systems with low belt counts.
I had 6+ pilots running my 5 belt system and anomolies in it for most of the day yesterday after patch.
killed almost 1000 rats (1000, not a typo) and got 12% toward lvl 1.

came back today and it was back at 0%, killed another 200 rats and no movement at all, still red down arrow.
something must be wrong here.

read more here...
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1211774

ShadowMaiden
Amarr
Atrocity.
Posted - 2009.11.11 21:02:00 - [3269]
 

Edited by: ShadowMaiden on 11/11/2009 21:04:48
Originally by: Super Whopper
Originally by: PaulTheConvoluted
Originally by: ShadowMaiden
Ok, CCP slashes the proposed fees by 75%, but you lose Local, sound fair Alliance carebears?

Also, cry more.
Why would anyone but pirates roaming in enemy territory want to remove local? With these upgrades being PvE oriented as they are removing local would only result in even more ppl running to high-sec for ISK, as you've just made PvE a hell of a lot more dangerous.

It's true 0.0 is (was?) all about PvP, but if you practically require people to PvE in order to keer their home, at least make it remotely possible to do so (with a net profit, preferably a decent one at that).

At the very least, removing local will even further chase off carebears, while inviting them to 0.0 seemed like the main goal of the patch.


Listen carefully Paul, you will hear the tears of the wannabe pirates who can't get what they see as their due; the little ratter or miner. In fact their only due is repeated podding but that's beside the point, but beware or else you will drown in their 1337 pvp against the super pvp Hulk.

Cry moar ShadowFailure because local won't be removed. If you want no local go live in a WH. Crying or Very sad WH's are boring Crying or Very sad. Who's crying again little child?


Oh I know local won't ever be removed, I was suggesting its removal in return for lower costs, (but as usual, you null-sec pets want it all your own way). You obviously missed that part before you started attempting a witty putdown. Null-sec carebear rage best rage amirite?

Kernok
Posted - 2009.11.11 21:49:00 - [3270]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Arkady Sadik
For those who missed it, current SiSi prices (which can change still, of course):

TCU: 1m ISK / day
Hub: 5m ISK / day
Jump bridge: 10m ISK / day
Cyno gen: 2m ISK / day
Cyno jammer: 20m ISK / day
CSAA: 1m ISK / day


This is correct for the current version on sisi. The only upcoming change as of today was shifting all the upkeep onto the TCU from the hub (TCU will be 6mill per day, hub will have no upkeep cost).

There may well be more changes to come in the days ahead and we are writing another blog which publicises the more updated figures and hoovers up lots of other important issues like specifics on transition between old and new to ensure everyone is clear on what will happen for example and any significant changes to the conquest mechanics which we need to detail if necessary.


does it not seem a problem ccp that a upgraded system can basically have all of its upgrades *turned off* by cloaky alts parking in them shortly after downtime?

seems like the most logical thing to do if you dont want to be an anomalie farmer and would like some nice afk supplimental income
actually, i can see an afk empire of these alts ransoming upgraded systems
hmm, afk empire...


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