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Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.11 05:20:00 - [3181]
 

Originally by: Qlanth
Originally by: Zastrow
im expecting a new dev blog that's going to resolve all of this any second now


The Council of Stellar Management ladies and gentleman


I'm glad CCP is listening to the representatives from the playerbase. Speaking of which, did any of you make an offhand joke about nerfing blasters in the bathroom because they'll probably do something like that next.

ServantOfMask
Minmatar
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.11 05:20:00 - [3182]
 

Edited by: ServantOfMask on 11/11/2009 05:25:20
Originally by: Qlanth
Originally by: Zastrow
im expecting a new dev blog that's going to resolve all of this any second now


The Council of Stellar Management ladies and gentleman


yeah i guess this is a slap in the face for anyone who thought voting for 0.0-centric CSM candidates would matter.

edit: and this is coming from one Mazzillu's voters... god what a waste of my votes.


Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.11.11 05:28:00 - [3183]
 

Originally by: Zastrow
Our dream for Dominion was that lucrative upgrades meant people lived in 0.0 instead of running L4 missions. Lucrative 0.0 upgrades means carebears are happy. More people actually living in 0.0 means more targets for combat players. People playing in the 0.0 sandbox means emergent gameplay so the developers are happy.


Unless 0.0 individual player income generation is lucrative and JUST WORTH IT, then you don't have carebears in 0.0. No carebears means no targets. No targets means pvpers leave. No emergent gameplay. Nobody's happy, everything sucks.

It all starts with making 0.0 profitable on the individual level. so there ok i just rehashed exactly what i said to ccp months ago, can we actually move forward now




Zas, seriously, what happened? Did CCP just go in some completely different direction? During the Fanfest they said that the sov changes they took some ideas from you CSM, but is this it? Also, Helen Highwater stated that many of the upcoming changes in this expansion including the sov changes were spear-headed by Darius Johnson. What gives? I mean if this is what goons wanted to happen then why???

Qlanth
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.11 05:38:00 - [3184]
 

Edited by: Qlanth on 11/11/2009 05:39:15
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Zastrow
Our dream for Dominion was that lucrative upgrades meant people lived in 0.0 instead of running L4 missions. Lucrative 0.0 upgrades means carebears are happy. More people actually living in 0.0 means more targets for combat players. People playing in the 0.0 sandbox means emergent gameplay so the developers are happy.


Unless 0.0 individual player income generation is lucrative and JUST WORTH IT, then you don't have carebears in 0.0. No carebears means no targets. No targets means pvpers leave. No emergent gameplay. Nobody's happy, everything sucks.

It all starts with making 0.0 profitable on the individual level. so there ok i just rehashed exactly what i said to ccp months ago, can we actually move forward now




Zas, seriously, what happened? Did CCP just go in some completely different direction? During the Fanfest they said that the sov changes they took some ideas from you CSM, but is this it? Also, Helen Highwater stated that many of the upcoming changes in this expansion including the sov changes were spear-headed by Darius Johnson. What gives? I mean if this is what goons wanted to happen then why???



What Zastrow is saying is that we wanted to get rid of huge empires hiding behind cyno-jammers because it is no fun. We wanted to nerf titans because they are no fun. We wanted to increase the scalability of 0.0 resources in 0.0 so more people could make money faster without having to spread themselves across the galaxy to do so.

The CSM, in the end, have no control over what CCP decides or does not decide to implement. They relay to CCP what they believe to be the best decisions. In this case I have the utmost faith that Zastrow, Avalloc and other 0.0-centric CSMs presented their case as best they could.

Unfortunately I don't think CCP listened very carefully.

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2009.11.11 05:42:00 - [3185]
 

Originally by: Tesal
YES OR NO: Dominion is a Sov nerf, but a resource buff.


No. The current numbers on sov-holding costs aren't a nerf at all(1 million/system/day? lol), though it does certainly qualify as a bridge/jammer nerf. And as the last 3000-odd posters have said, the resources being buffed are irrelevant anyways. It'd be like making all the regular Jaspet in belts into Pristine Jaspet. Hey, it's a 10% buff, across the board! Doesn't change the fact that nobody in their right minds would ever mine it, buff or no buff.

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Cute. Now SUDDENLY you care about small alliances? Lmao. You dont give **** about them, as you never did before. If you really want to know what small alliance wants then ask them, not goons, atlas, nc or whoever else posts here.


Plenty of smaller groups have posted here. I'm a director in a 77-man corp living in highsec, for example. I make no claims that we'd jump into 0.0 the day Dominion drops even if it'd been everything we could ever want, but it's something we would have aimed for long-term, but that we won't go for now. I'm not the only one saying that, either.

Originally by: Cailais
To put it another way, if your goal is to "become rich" then run missions in high sec. If your goal is to become 'infamous / famous' for owning space then go to .0 and fight.


A lot of people live in 0.0 for the notoriety or the excitement - most of the current population, really. But the thing is, you need to pay for that somehow. I think we'd all prefer not to make 0.0 people do missions in highsec to bankroll themselves. And really, that's the fundamental complaint here.

Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: ep1k
isk would be a compelling one for many people.


Short term yes - but those that failed to make a lot of ISK or lost assets will just return to Empire.


As opposed to what? The status quo?

Originally by: Cailais
its from the film 'Sunshine' (pretty good sci-fi film if you've not seen it).


Okay, now I know you're trolling us.

Originally by: Ukucia
Doubtful. When the response to the first information is "YOU IDIOTS! GO BACK AND DO IT AGAIN!!" they either are busy back at the drawing board, or are disinclined to release the parts of the design they left out that are so bad they held 'em back.


Much as I'd like to see a quick and dirty revamp to the upgrades, I don't really expect it.

Originally by: gambrinous
Originally by: KeratinBoy
What if, along with these changes, CCP decided to charge players through the nose for, well, the same experience?


The updated patch notes now state that they are trying to reduce empire alt sprawl, you know, condense empire carebears into fewer, more lucrative alts. As a result you will have to pay 7 mill a day for any character that logs on in empire. To make things more lucrative, there are now 10 more lvl 3 agents in every system.


You, sir, win.

Originally by: Qlanth
Originally by: Zastrow
im expecting a new dev blog that's going to resolve all of this any second now


The Council of Stellar Management ladies and gentleman


Hey, to be fair, they don't all act like idiots. There's also several morons, and one or two high-functioning savants.

Originally by: Marlona Sky
Zas, seriously, what happened? Did CCP just go in some completely different direction? During the Fanfest they said that the sov changes they took some ideas from you CSM, but is this it? Also, Helen Highwater stated that many of the upcoming changes in this expansion including the sov changes were spear-headed by Darius Johnson. What gives? I mean if this is what goons wanted to happen then why???


Sadly, talking does not always imply listening, it seems.

Zhayan Joruni
Posted - 2009.11.11 05:45:00 - [3186]
 

A much better model for the pricing would be a sliding scale. First system costs 1m per day base cost (and the rest in proportion). Subsequent systems claimed would cost more. Naturally large alliances would split to take advantage, but that in itself would render them less stable.

On top of that, force contiguous sov. Once sov is claimed in one system, subsequent claims should be made on contiguous systems to existing sov. That makes it harder to control large areas of 0.0 by exercising sov in strategic systems only. Making sure all new claims are next door to a system you already own will go a long way towards reducing spheres of influence.

Finally I think some people are getting hung up on Carebear vs PvP as if you shouldn't be doing both within a single corp or even alliance. I have spent many months at a time living in 0.0 over the years and one of the most difficult aspects is when your corp is regarded as lacking in commitment because many members are running the POS, mining and ratting and working logistics, and organising imports and developing the local market, instead of devoting 90% of their time to PvP. I have never felt, when I'm enjoying some good fleet PvP, that my pleasure is diminished because I know some carebears are mining in another part of the region. We're both doing what we enjoy: what's the problem? But some people make it one.

I am not sure this will change with Dominion because it's an attitude thing rather than a mechanic thing, but anything that increases the variety of stuff you can do in 0.0 to make a valuable contribution to corp and alliance is worth trying.

Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe
Posted - 2009.11.11 05:50:00 - [3187]
 

Edited by: Sidus Sarmiang on 11/11/2009 05:53:46
Originally by: Marlona Sky

Zas, seriously, what happened? Did CCP just go in some completely different direction? During the Fanfest they said that the sov changes they took some ideas from you CSM, but is this it? Also, Helen Highwater stated that many of the upcoming changes in this expansion including the sov changes were spear-headed by Darius Johnson. What gives? I mean if this is what goons wanted to happen then why???



Seriouspostin'

I don't think any goon (that still plays regularly) wants these changes. In spite of the jokes about us wanting to ruin this game, I don't think any of us want changes that reduce the amount of fun that can be had in 0.0.


I, personally, and most of the people I talked to were very excited about the changes as they were first presented. Make it so alliances can't hold vast tracks of space, but make it so they don't need more than 2-3 constellations. The result would be more people in 0.0, smaller powerblocs, and a more dynamic game. Instead we're being offered a more frustrating, awkward nullsec experience that reduces the incentive to produce the "emergent" gameplay the developers seem so keen on.

This benefits no one, regardless of what side of the line you think you on. Roaming PvPer? Less targets. Small alliance looking to make the big nullsec leap? Have fun getting people when they get more rewards with less risk in highsec. Inventor/tech 2 producer? Try more expensive materials and less demand due to reduced PvP. Miner? Less demand for many ships, combined with a lot more people hanging around highsec that think suicide ganks are fun. Importer? The only hubs worth importing to will be mission running hubs. Mission runner? Have fun knowing that running missions is your endgame and if you ever put more than a few hundred million isk into modules for your ship, you'll be suicide ganked as well. I can't really think of anything good coming of this.


One more thing. A lot of people are mistaken about the real issue here. It is not the cost of holding space. It's the rewards. They can double or triple the cost if the adjust the rewards appropriately. As it is, no matter how much they nerf the cost there's no point unless the rewards are greater than highsec empire. That's all there is to it.

Junkie Beverage
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.11 05:59:00 - [3188]
 

anyone getting warnings posting in this thread b/c at least then we would know that they are reading it

Zastrow
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.11 06:06:00 - [3189]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Zastrow
Our dream for Dominion was that lucrative upgrades meant people lived in 0.0 instead of running L4 missions. Lucrative 0.0 upgrades means carebears are happy. More people actually living in 0.0 means more targets for combat players. People playing in the 0.0 sandbox means emergent gameplay so the developers are happy.


Unless 0.0 individual player income generation is lucrative and JUST WORTH IT, then you don't have carebears in 0.0. No carebears means no targets. No targets means pvpers leave. No emergent gameplay. Nobody's happy, everything sucks.

It all starts with making 0.0 profitable on the individual level. so there ok i just rehashed exactly what i said to ccp months ago, can we actually move forward now




Zas, seriously, what happened? Did CCP just go in some completely different direction? During the Fanfest they said that the sov changes they took some ideas from you CSM, but is this it? Also, Helen Highwater stated that many of the upcoming changes in this expansion including the sov changes were spear-headed by Darius Johnson. What gives? I mean if this is what goons wanted to happen then why???



I think the CSM is a great concept, but it's still a work in progress. I don't think people realize just how little communication there actually was between CCP and the CSM. I *****ed about this in Iceland, but except for when we were actually inside CCP HQ in iceland or at fanfest, we don't hear anything back from CCP, communication was entirely one-way. It's really awful for a group of people that are supposed to be the feedback focus group for expansions like this. At the summit, basically the CSM just yelled at the same 3 or 4 devs for the weekend and hoped some of what we said stuck. Abathur and Soundwave seemed to pay attention to us the most, and I think we had some great discussions with them. The other devs, well there are some working on Dominion that we never even met. Some other devs gave me the impression that they think we are bat**** insane, and made it obvious through body language that they didn't care at all what we were saying (dude with the glasses who we were ranting about logoffski with). Like they are clearly superior at game design and when we didn't agree, nothing would change their mind.

Almost EVERY talking point and argument raised in this thread I had already raised at the CSM3 summit. Soundwave, Abathur, and others I spoke to seemed to be completely in-line with these arguments already, so I came out of the summit feeling really good about Dominion. Flash-forward to last week. This devblog surprised the hell out of me because it seems so completely out-of-touch with the discussions we had in Iceland. I haven't completely lost hope. It's possible it was just an AWFULLY drafted blog and the state of Dominion really isn't this bad.

I eagerly await your next blog, Abathur.


Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2009.11.11 06:30:00 - [3190]
 

Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 11/11/2009 06:30:45
Originally by: Junkie Beverage
anyone getting warnings posting in this thread b/c at least then we would know that they are reading it


A couple posts did get removed earlier, so at a minimum someone reported it and they followed through. Given that this thread is obviously nothing but Goon tears though, I can't imagine a Goon reporting a comment for a bit of joking about domestic violence, so it must be CCP reading it themselves Razz

Originally by: Zastrow
I think the CSM is a great concept, but it's still a work in progress. I don't think people realize just how little communication there actually was between CCP and the CSM. I *****ed about this in Iceland, but except for when we were actually inside CCP HQ in iceland or at fanfest, we don't hear anything back from CCP, communication was entirely one-way. It's really awful for a group of people that are supposed to be the feedback focus group for expansions like this. At the summit, basically the CSM just yelled at the same 3 or 4 devs for the weekend and hoped some of what we said stuck. Abathur and Soundwave seemed to pay attention to us the most, and I think we had some great discussions with them. The other devs, well there are some working on Dominion that we never even met. Some other devs gave me the impression that they think we are bat**** insane, and made it obvious through body language that they didn't care at all what we were saying (dude with the glasses who we were ranting about logoffski with). Like they are clearly superior at game design and when we didn't agree, nothing would change their mind.

Almost EVERY talking point and argument raised in this thread I had already raised at the CSM3 summit. Soundwave, Abathur, and others I spoke to seemed to be completely in-line with these arguments already, so I came out of the summit feeling really good about Dominion. Flash-forward to last week. This devblog surprised the hell out of me because it seems so completely out-of-touch with the discussions we had in Iceland. I haven't completely lost hope. It's possible it was just an AWFULLY drafted blog and the state of Dominion really isn't this bad.

I eagerly await your next blog, Abathur.


Okay, now this just makes me sad.

Kepakh
Posted - 2009.11.11 07:18:00 - [3191]
 

Originally by: WhiteSavage
Moon goo isk is just being distrubuted more towards R32's etc. My dreads jump drive reaches out just as far as it did b4... so no. And 2 anomolies is not a resource buff lmao. i make more isk from ratting then i do from anomolies...


Yeah, just now unless you own R64 you can jump your dread to some 'worthless' lower rarity moons...Those moons increase in worth thus more people can enjoy moon goo.

10 anomalies in fully upgraded system, they are insta-respawn, independent on true sec status and their rewards are currently unknown yet.

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.11.11 07:23:00 - [3192]
 

wow, I missed a entire threadnaught while studying for exams =s. Anyways, seems to me with moon goo changes and CCP's plans to make money from taxes and to have upkeep.... it looks like living in 0.0 is gonna be expensive. too expensive.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2009.11.11 07:25:00 - [3193]
 

Originally by: Kepakh
10 anomalies in fully upgraded system, they are insta-respawn, independent on true sec status and their rewards are currently unknown yet.
No, those are the only things we know anything about yet: they'll be on par with a highsec L4, income-wise (which makes them worse, since they're limited and don't provide the fringe benefits).

Pointfive
Posted - 2009.11.11 07:28:00 - [3194]
 

Originally by: Kepakh
Originally by: WhiteSavage
Moon goo isk is just being distrubuted more towards R32's etc. My dreads jump drive reaches out just as far as it did b4... so no. And 2 anomolies is not a resource buff lmao. i make more isk from ratting then i do from anomolies...


Yeah, just now unless you own R64 you can jump your dread to some 'worthless' lower rarity moons...Those moons increase in worth thus more people can enjoy moon goo.

10 anomalies in fully upgraded system, they are insta-respawn, independent on true sec status and their rewards are currently unknown yet.



Unknown other than the devs saying they should be almost as good as level fours. Almost as good as level four income man. Thats like almost average isk come of what people are doing afk from null sec. Surely to stop afk empires we will entice them back to using their space by giving them subpar rewards. Then they have to be there more, because it will take longer to make money. Awesome plan.

I used to think you were desperately trying to convince everyone else hwo awesome this patch was, now i just think you are trying to convince yourself. Its kind of sad.

Kepakh
Posted - 2009.11.11 07:29:00 - [3195]
 

Originally by: Tippia
No, those are the only things we know anything about yet: they'll be on par with a highsec L4, income-wise (which makes them worse, since they're limited and don't provide the fringe benefits).

They are not on par with L4, they are supposed to be on par with L4. Until they are introduced on test server, nothing is certain.

However, L4 comparison is completely irrelevant.

Pointfive
Posted - 2009.11.11 07:33:00 - [3196]
 

Originally by: Kepakh
Originally by: Tippia
No, those are the only things we know anything about yet: they'll be on par with a highsec L4, income-wise (which makes them worse, since they're limited and don't provide the fringe benefits).

They are not on par with L4, they are supposed to be on par with L4. Until they are introduced on test server, nothing is certain.

However, L4 comparison is completely irrelevant.


Devs respond comparing them to level 4s. I would say if the devs themselves are comparing them to level 4 income, maybe they think that comparison is valid.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.11.11 07:47:00 - [3197]
 

Originally by: Pointfive
Thats like almost average isk come of what people are doing afk from null sec. Surely to stop afk empires we will entice them back to using their space by giving them subpar rewards. Then they have to be there more, because it will take longer to make money. Awesome plan.


Which would you prefer: near-level-4-mission income every day that you are in nullsec with no jumpclone cooldown stopping you getting involved with an incursion or defense, or afk level 4 income once a week, with the rest of the week being in your nullsec clone staring mindlessly at local while hovering around a gate?

I know which scenario looks like more fun to me!

Some people will prefer the mindless level 4 grinding during the week, jumping out to a clone in nullsec for the weekends - the upgrades for Dominion mean they're still more likely to find action when they get out there. Gate camps, incursions, sov disruption - there's going to be plenty of stuff to do to keep people occupied.

The only people who won't give it a try are folks who are so risk-averse they have a habit of undocking when a blinky red pod jumps through the gate into Dodixie.

Peryner
University of Caille
Posted - 2009.11.11 07:55:00 - [3198]
 

Quote:
Some people will prefer the mindless level 4 grinding during the week


no one prefers grinding level 4 missions you idiots. That's the whole point, we don't want the best income to be un-fun. Fun in not an income.

don't put words into peoples mouths.

Grinding level missions are not fun, but they give the most income in the game. You don't have to be genius to note what is wrong with this.

"were ccp! lets release this expansion called... exdous! it will make 0.0 really fun and it will be full of people!... oh wait we also released level 4 missions, ruining 0.0 forever."

And that's a damn fact. Because honestly, 0.0 is just as fun right now, and people still don't go to 0.0 space. It's more fun to bum around doing level 4 missions while chatting with corpmates. then maybe running some missions together.


Kepakh
Posted - 2009.11.11 08:00:00 - [3199]
 

Edited by: Kepakh on 11/11/2009 08:00:44
Originally by: Peryner
And that's a damn fact. Because honestly, 0.0 is just as fun right now, and people still don't go to 0.0 space. It's more fun to bum around doing level 4 missions while chatting with corpmates. then maybe running some missions together.


That's how vast majority MMO playerbase is - PVE focused grinders, and that is all fine. It is fighting a windmills if you want to make them live in 0.0

Pointfive
Posted - 2009.11.11 08:03:00 - [3200]
 

Originally by: Kepakh
Edited by: Kepakh on 11/11/2009 08:00:44
Originally by: Peryner
And that's a damn fact. Because honestly, 0.0 is just as fun right now, and people still don't go to 0.0 space. It's more fun to bum around doing level 4 missions while chatting with corpmates. then maybe running some missions together.


That's how vast majority MMO playerbase is - PVE focused grinders, and that is all fine. It is fighting a windmills if you want to make them live in 0.0


Do not even attempt it. Is is impossible to move one person from pve to pvp. It has never been done and never will be done. Even thoguh that is a goal of this expansion, noone should focus on that at all.

*ignores counteless posters saying they were planning to move to 0.0 before the patch notes showed the isk gain was not better than what they already have*



Peryner
University of Caille
Posted - 2009.11.11 08:18:00 - [3201]
 

Originally by: Pointfive
Originally by: Kepakh
Edited by: Kepakh on 11/11/2009 08:00:44
Originally by: Peryner
And that's a damn fact. Because honestly, 0.0 is just as fun right now, and people still don't go to 0.0 space. It's more fun to bum around doing level 4 missions while chatting with corpmates. then maybe running some missions together.


That's how vast majority MMO playerbase is - PVE focused grinders, and that is all fine. It is fighting a windmills if you want to make them live in 0.0


Do not even attempt it. Is is impossible to move one person from pve to pvp. It has never been done and never will be done. Even thoguh that is a goal of this expansion, noone should focus on that at all.

*ignores counteless posters saying they were planning to move to 0.0 before the patch notes showed the isk gain was not better than what they already have*





:P
see I think the best end goal for 0.0 should be even higher costs! Allainces should be able to build PvE centers, and then get a tax off of everyone doing stuff in that system. That way the PvE people will be paying for the PvP peoples to keep sov. Hell, if you increase the income to double of level 4 missions, then allaince could put down 20% taxes to pay for PvP ships.

and thus the PvP people and the PvE people would play together.

Just keep the current costs in the blog the same, and make it so you can make the upkeeps even higher by doing even more missions and thus even more income!


seriously the PvP and PvE people could support each other. And with treaties they wouldn't even need to be in the same alliance. it could be like how you mission in empire space. you don't work for the people that own the systems. I think it would be awesome if while going around 0.0 you across player built empires.

but that will require some good steak.

hell they had the right idea with NPC corp tax.

Now if you make treaty impossible with NPC corps, and increase profits in 0.0 then players will leave NPC corps to get higher profit.

it's risk vs.reward

not risk vs. fun



gambrinous
Posted - 2009.11.11 08:19:00 - [3202]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
Which would you prefer: near-level-4-mission income every day that you are in nullsec with no jumpclone cooldown stopping you getting involved with an incursion or defense, or afk level 4 income once a week, with the rest of the week being in your nullsec clone staring mindlessly at local while hovering around a gate?

I know which scenario looks like more fun to me!


You, like most trolls, are always leaving something out of the picture to prop up your own warped world view. I'm honestly not sure if you are stupid or trolling.

You mentioned a specific one account case. For that you will have someone JC to empire when isk is low, and run belts when there is no action - while they have ships in their hangar.

Net result, less people in 0.0. Which is bad. Seriously, do you live there? do you have any friends there? perhaps single account friends? never heard anyone say "**** I gotta buy a GTC", or "sry, missioning, broke"?

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.11.11 08:43:00 - [3203]
 

Quote:

wow, I missed a entire threadnaught while studying for exams =s. Anyways, seems to me with moon goo changes and CCP's plans to make money from taxes and to have upkeep.... it looks like living in 0.0 is gonna be expensive. too expensive.



Imho the "expensive" part is where people are concerned the less.

But what many including CCP don't get at all is that if Dominion was aimed at making hi sec bears and corps move to 0.0 they have to make something to entice exactly those guys.


I mean, after 100+ pages no one split the issue in two:

- What happens to those already in 0.0 (hugely covered)

- What happens to those who are *not* in 0.0 and were planning to consider the option. I understand this was one main goal of this expansion.


Now, what's being done to entice the latter to lose their super-safe and high income and migrate in 0.0, with its many insecurity and hassles?


Dante Edmundo
Posted - 2009.11.11 08:52:00 - [3204]
 

Edited by: Dante Edmundo on 11/11/2009 08:57:29

I suggest any new players from hi-sec that decide to band together and try out a system in null-sec, leaving their free ratting and LVL 4 agents behind - and instead pay 7 mil a day for the privilege of being in a null-sec system - so other players can shoot them down as they try to mine or rat in their expensive PvE ships -

I suggest that for each new player from hi-sec to null-sec CCP should send 1 gummy bear per day for the 7 million worth of ratting or anomaly finds the new players do.

I think the best name for this would be the gummy bear upgrade. And those alliances who have accrued 30 gummy bears by end of month after sending 210 million of their ratting profits to CCP - will no longer have to endure the hardships of free system use in hi-sec anymore, nor will they have to worry about all the damn CONCORD protection.

And if a new null-sec alliance collect over 50 gummy bears they get the Mother Bear System upgrade - which will only cost them a paltry 15million a day to keep, and it will allow them to mine one extra asteroid field in their null-sec system a day with whatever Hulks they would prefer to lose to PvP'rs.


Astal Atlar
Caldari
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.11 09:04:00 - [3205]
 

Quote:
Point #3-- Far-reaching (by which I take you mean "expansive") alliances will have to become less-so. I don't by the Atlas argument that they will still only have 15 systems out of 3 regions to use post-Dominion... only if they choose not to upgrade the space at all.

Well we will do it. Why would we need something else besides the strategic outpost and jb systems,and maybe the few systems with -9 ect true sec and the few moons that are worth.

But we will still be ther like AAA PL Goons,on the map it may look as systems are empty but we will be there ratting exploring,pvp-ing,but not paying the excessive costs. So any newcomer will struggle against anyone one of the big aliances if he does not come as blue. CCP are failing in exactly this making o.o lucrative for newcomers.They just make it harder for them and boring for us the o.o residents.

People are talking for income and ect but they don't get it,money exploration yeah but how many people explore how many good sites you find and how many of them escalate?,how many good systems with nice true sec you have for ratting....and ect
with 300-400+ people in aliance chat you certainly need a lot of system just to keep your people pvp ready,now ccp want to impliment a whole new level of grinding.

And let me tell you something pve players can't survive in o.o period.

Kepakh
Posted - 2009.11.11 09:08:00 - [3206]
 

Edited by: Kepakh on 11/11/2009 09:13:33
Originally by: Peryner
:P
see I think the best end goal for 0.0 should be even higher costs! Allainces should be able to build PvE centers, and then get a tax off of everyone doing stuff in that system. That way the PvE people will be paying for the PvP peoples to keep sov. Hell, if you increase the income to double of level 4 missions, then allaince could put down 20% taxes to pay for PvP ships.

and thus the PvP people and the PvE people would play together.

Just keep the current costs in the blog the same, and make it so you can make the upkeeps even higher by doing even more missions and thus even more income!


seriously the PvP and PvE people could support each other. And with treaties they wouldn't even need to be in the same alliance. it could be like how you mission in empire space. you don't work for the people that own the systems. I think it would be awesome if while going around 0.0 you across player built empires.

but that will require some good steak.

hell they had the right idea with NPC corp tax.

Now if you make treaty impossible with NPC corps, and increase profits in 0.0 then players will leave NPC corps to get higher profit.

it's risk vs.reward

not risk vs. fun




Ok, so you basicaly tranfer everything except Concord protection to 0.0 and increase the outcomes.
What will happen is:
1) People will still grind their L4 in empire because no rewards can make them move into 0.0
2) You turned 0.0 primarily being team work acheivement into solo grind content.
3) You just wasted lots of time on bad concept.


One of the great things about EVE is that it can offer different playstyles depending on space you live in and it will be very unfortunate if this gets ruined due narrow-minded obtuse developers.



Astal Atlar
Caldari
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.11 09:30:00 - [3207]
 

Fresh news i am just reposting what i post on our forums :
Quote:

Just logged on the sisi,the new dominion black screen is epic cool,hm they let redeeming ms and faction ships again intresting.
And in the moment i am trying to see or get info if something new added for the sov and ect
edit: they seeded the different industrial strategic and ect upgrades for systems don't know if it is new though i log for first time after almost a week or so.

Yep they are new and they are **** : the strategic upgrades range from 200 000m3 for the capital construction upgrade to 500 000m3 for the cynojamer upgrade

the system upgrades : only the ore and survey upgrades are seeded grow in size expotentialy with upgrade lvl 1 5000m3 lvl 2 10 000m3 lvl 3 100 000m3, lvl 4 250 000m3, and lvl 5 500 000m3.

It is becoming a logistical nightmare tbh



Locii
Posted - 2009.11.11 09:39:00 - [3208]
 

Originally by: Astal Atlar
Fresh news i am just reposting what i post on our forums :
Quote:

Just logged on the sisi,the new dominion black screen is epic cool,hm they let redeeming ms and faction ships again intresting.
And in the moment i am trying to see or get info if something new added for the sov and ect
edit: they seeded the different industrial strategic and ect upgrades for systems don't know if it is new though i log for first time after almost a week or so.

Yep they are new and they are **** : the strategic upgrades range from 200 000m3 for the capital construction upgrade to 500 000m3 for the cynojamer upgrade

the system upgrades : only the ore and survey upgrades are seeded grow in size expotentialy with upgrade lvl 1 5000m3 lvl 2 10 000m3 lvl 3 100 000m3, lvl 4 250 000m3, and lvl 5 500 000m3.

It is becoming a logistical nightmare tbh





so if your a large alliance and have teh ability to titan bridge freighters everywhere your good, smaller alliances are just gonna have to lube up and freighter everything about gate by gate. oh yay.

Kepakh
Posted - 2009.11.11 09:45:00 - [3209]
 

Edited by: Kepakh on 11/11/2009 09:46:05
Originally by: Locii
so if your a large alliance and have teh ability to titan bridge freighters everywhere your good, smaller alliances are just gonna have to lube up and freighter everything about gate by gate. oh yay.

No titan bridge in Dominion as well as no cap ship(except jump freighters) can use POS jump bridge.

It is the very first implemention of space upgrades, volumes as well as other attributes are subject to change of course.

Astal Atlar
Caldari
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.11 09:57:00 - [3210]
 

Quote:
No titan bridge in Dominion as well as no cap ship(except jump freighters) can use POS jump bridge.


only that titan jump has nothing to do with jump bridge system
Stay in empire noobie.
As for volumes as we see the hub size i doubt there will be a lot of difference.And it is already the 11th, so 20 days before the expansion i doubt we will see a lot more tweaking.

And yeah i cant see how making taking catching a single system worth of 3 freighter jumps at all at least makes it easier for smaller entities


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