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CCP Fallout

Posted - 2009.11.06 21:19:00 - [1]
 

Sovereignty is getting a fixin' in EVE Online: Dominion. Learn all about two upcoming changes in CCP Chronotis' newest dev blog.

Update: The Infrastructure Hub Management window graphic has been updated. Enjoy!

Trocent
Amarr
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2009.11.06 21:20:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Trocent on 06/11/2009 21:21:00
first!

I've always wanted to do that. Reading that sweet sweet joy now.

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2009.11.06 21:27:00 - [3]
 

excellent

Vivian Azure
Posted - 2009.11.06 21:42:00 - [4]
 

And please leave the costs as they're, or even up them a little bit Razz

Rodrigo Talavera
Navy of Xoc
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2009.11.06 21:43:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Rodrigo Talavera on 07/11/2009 12:29:50
So the true sec status of the system is still very important? Can we upgrade a system to be equivalent in its ratting to a -1.0 system (likelihood of expensive rats)?


Also, it looks like it is prohibitively expensive to own space. Large alliances get hit hard and small ones have a large barrier to entry. Where is all this money going? Are we getting free health care or something?

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.06 21:54:00 - [6]
 

Do those guaranteed anomalies/sites/pleyes respawn immediately?

But even if they would, nothing will really change. Mining sites will still be crap - meaning that even if you find them, it might just be something worthless that you'd have to grind away or risk losing your industry level.
Crap 0.0 will still be crap 0.0 thanks to not-really-better-than-lowsec rats and exploration content. Anomalies will still be less of an option than normal belt rattings thanks to mission-npc drops being significantly less than loot from belt-npc.

To be honest, i expected a lot more from this in regards of actually upgrading space. If we're supposed to rely less on moons, there needs to be a good source of money in 0.0. Right now, this source is still in empire in lvl4 mission hubs..

ChronoSphere
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.11.06 21:56:00 - [7]
 

Jesus this is a lot of money. For a small alliance with only 3 outposts in a constellation, this is gonna cost 5.67 bil every 28 days. I really hope these upgrades do significantly increase the amount of money you can make, cause I dunno where else one can get the cash. The benefits of the upgrades has to outweigh the costs of the system, else whats the point?

Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Frontier Venture
Posted - 2009.11.06 21:59:00 - [8]
 

I do have a question, say an alliance, <4EVER> for example, gets sov and holds it for 100 days and then gets blown out of the system 4-DJG (fake system) by an alliance called <USUCK>. Will those 100 days mean anything to either alliance or is it reset permanently? I don't remember reading anything about it.

And by mean anything:

If <4EVER> were to retake 4-DJG back within 72 hours, would the 100 days mean anything?
Or if <USUCK> kept it, would the work that <4EVER> had done benefit them in anyway?

Please answer!

Thanks

--Isaac

Undertow Latheus
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:01:00 - [9]
 

Awesome, sov is getting fixed, 0.0 is getting much more incentive, and owners can customize upgrade and personalize space.

Now what the **** about lowsec?

Unfamed II
Caldari
NPC Corporation
Paisti Syndicate
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:01:00 - [10]
 

Nice wallet. Also, sov panel looks quite cool.

SXYGeeK
Gallente
do you
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:03:00 - [11]
 

"
Pirate Magnets - add two additional guaranteed anomalies per level to your solar system

Ore Prospecting Array - adds one additional guaranteed hidden asteroid site per level to your solar system
"

what is meant by "guaranteed"?
one per downtime?, one per day?, or one at any given time I might go looking?
When we go and mine out a hidden belt or kill off an encounter how long will it take before another may spawn somewhere else in the system?


Isaac Starstriker
Amarr
Frontier Venture
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:05:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 06/11/2009 22:05:45
Originally by: ChronoSphere
Jesus this is a lot of money. For a small alliance with only 3 outposts in a constellation, this is gonna cost 5.67 bil every 28 days. I really hope these upgrades do significantly increase the amount of money you can make, cause I dunno where else one can get the cash. The benefits of the upgrades has to outweigh the costs of the system, else whats the point?


So small alliances deserve 3 outposts to be cheap? It might actually mean you'll need to pull together. I can hardly imagine this cost will be that hard considering 1 person could make 20mil per day EASILY off ratting right now. You should have around 50-100 ppl, what are they doing?

I might also add that they did mention the cost is around 5 POSes per system, so it begs the question of how are you managing right now?

--Isaac

EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:07:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: EvilweaselFinance on 06/11/2009 22:08:09
Edited by: EvilweaselFinance on 06/11/2009 22:07:32
Is there any intention to buff anomolies or grav sites, cause currently they're thought to be pretty worthless and I can't see any alliance bothering to install those. Also, will Entrapment only spawn more of the DED plexes of that region (e.g. if installed in Deteroid would it only increas the spawn rate of the 7/10, 8/10 and 10/10 that usually spawn there) or will it spawn more types? Because otherwise I can see this completely crashing high-end deadspace equipment but not the ones that spawn only in empire.

Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:12:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Isaac Starstriker

So small alliances deserve 3 outposts to be cheap?


Yes. That's just one constellation, barely holding ten people actually making money with the current system. Even with increased spawn rates of exploration content, i don't see it raising beyond 20. This means even with an extremely high tax, they will have a huge problem paying upkeep.

Much easier to just claim the three outpost systems for pvp stashes, and make the money in empire just like before. Considering a small alliance is unlikely to hold on any space worth something (sec status lower than -0.5), this is exactly how it's done at the moment.

teji
Ars ex Discordia
Here Be Dragons
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:16:00 - [15]
 

So this is why you were holding of talking about the upgrades. They are hilariously bad.

Kalissa
Sacred Templars
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:19:00 - [16]
 

The bigger alliances will be crying buckets over those sov changes.

Nice! Very Happy

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:19:00 - [17]
 

most interesting

EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:20:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: EvilweaselFinance on 06/11/2009 22:20:45
After looking at this, unless you radically alter the following, this is going to fall flat on its face:
1)Anomolies - currently considered worthless, and are never run. That you have more of them is not helpful since the ones we have aren't used.
2)Grav sites - I believe these have too few minerals to be worth bothering with and nobody in 0.0 uses them.
3)Profession sites - now that interfaces are worthless Radar sites are not worth the time to run. With the collapse of the salvage market, neither are mag sites. This will be even worse when the POS market is glutted making faction POS's and pos mods worthless.

I realize you've probably put a lot of work into this but you're building up 0.0 by increasing the amount of things that are already considered worthless and so right now, the only upgrades that are worth a damn are Entrapment (DED complexes are still worth something, though the market will rapidly crash if not done right) and the flux generator (can generate more wormholes to empire for logistics).

If you bother to fix those three things, these upgrades could be worth something. If you don't, they will not be.

Originally by: Kalissa
The bigger alliances will be crying buckets over those sov changes.

Nice! Very Happy


not really

Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:21:00 - [19]
 

So how exactly is a small alliance with a handful of systems supposed to realistically support themselves with these upgrades? Anamolies are mostly crap, plexes are few in number compared with your projected occupant numbers*, mining sites can be crap ...


Equinox Daedalus
Caldari
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:23:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Equinox Daedalus on 06/11/2009 22:32:22
Well going off these figures, 1 system with sov, infrastructure hub, cyno jammer and jumpbridges will cost over 2 bil / month

CVA alone has the most outposts per region, so i'd figure just for outposts alone thats probally 35+ bil isk a month

CCP, you can't really be serious.

We go from fighting for something we own to paying for something we own, paying ridiclous amounts of isk, atleast from my general point of view.

What incentive is it to actually keep our space anymore? you say you want to use CVA as an example, but, you actually seem to want to destroy what we have built. You should of left us disbanded, because your doing a real good job of what most other alliances haven't been able to do.

Where is this Mythical isk influx going to come from, to keep providence up and running? We'd be better off moving back to empire. How is 1 or 2 explorions going to INCREASE supstantally the isk generation.


Tragic really.


Sathrai
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:23:00 - [21]
 

Am I reading this correctly that we are now looking at around 1.4bil/month per system we want to run jumpbridges through? On top of the fuel costs of the tower and the bridge? Really?

feffrey
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:24:00 - [22]
 

What corp has 10 trillion in their master wallet?

Avatoin
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:24:00 - [23]
 

1. So just to confirm I read this right. POSs belonging to the alliance holding SOV will NOT have to be fueled, instead the holding corporation will have to pay in upkeep equivalent to five large POSs plus the cost of additional upgrades? Am I right?

2. Will modules like jump-bridges still have to be fueled individually?

3. Will an increase in Military also mean an increase in the spawn rate of NPCs in belts or an increase in value of those NPCs?

4. Will upgrades to the hub be visible (ie. like outpost attachments)?

Hrin
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:26:00 - [24]
 

Can you artificially upgrade some constellations on sisi so we can see these upgrades in action?

mynnna
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:26:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: mynnna on 06/11/2009 22:29:46
Edited by: mynnna on 06/11/2009 22:27:24
Originally by: Kalissa
The bigger alliances will be crying buckets over those sov changes.

Nice! Very Happy


Yeah this guy is pretty much right, especially if people really are forced to live with "50-100 people per system" as you guys dream.

Anomalies are mostly garbage. They need to respawn instantly and there need to be more than there are to begin with.

Mining is a garbage profession. Numerous proposals have been given to making it less worthless in 0.0, but suffice it to say, the mining fundamentals need to be addressed if the ore upgrades are going to be worthwhile.

The DED plex thing is okay, although considering a single person can do them if he uses enough accounts (none of them really require any more than triple boxing), all that upgrade will do is enrich a relatively small group of people. Don't expect it to help the "masses" much.

The ~mini profession sites~ are garbage now, something to make more of them spawn won't change that. Datacore prices dropped off, the decryptors are slow sells because everyone only needs one, most T2 rig bpcs are worthless since most T2 rigs are worthless, etc. Basically everything that comes from these sites isn't really worth the time; they need a buff if you want to see people bothering with them.

And finally we have the quantum flux generator. I'm no expert but I imagine these will only get less and less valuable as T3 gets cheaper and cheaper.


So yeah, even without touching everything ELSE, this is pretty much garbage, through and through.

<edit>
Originally by: EvilweaselFinance
Oh, also, all these upgrades besides the pirate magnet and ore prospecting array (which unless fixed will be unused) evade alliance taxes so you can't replace the lost r64 income.

There's also this. If you imagine people are going to replace moon income with ratting income you're terribly naive.

Letrange
Minmatar
Red Horizon Inc
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:27:00 - [26]
 

Ok, question here:

Is the intention for this to work like static wormholes? I.E. if you mine out an entire "static" grav site it will immediately respawn after it de-spawns (which in the case of most un-bugged grav sites, a certain amount of time after the last roid is popped [trigger] and the last player vessel leaves), or will it only respawn at downtime?

In the first case the "low ends" will need to get mined out before the site respawns immediately (which would be GREAT).

In the second case it may take a number of days for the site to despawn if you don't forcibly mine it out (i.e. just go for the highs and ignore the lows and wait for a respawn). But even when it finally despawns, you still need to wait for downtime before the next one appears.

Will these new grav sites be like "k-space" grav sites or like "w-space" grav sites?

EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:27:00 - [27]
 

Oh, also, all these upgrades besides the pirate magnet and ore prospecting array (which unless fixed will be unused) evade alliance taxes so you can't replace the lost r64 income.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:29:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Equinox Daedalus

Where is this Mythical isk influx going to come from, to keep providence up and running? We'd be better off moving back to empire. How is 1 or 2 explorions going to INCREASE supstantally the isk generation.



On average 1 exploration/DED site nets 100mil isk (might be a bit more, im using very low value of TIERs alone + low faction stuff drops). Times 30 days = 3bil/month (again: very low values). And now think if you hit 10/10 once per week (and its possible) you can get 0,33% chance of 2+bil isk. With 4 weeks a month you get 4x 33% chance of phat loot which will cover the system.

Result? USE goddamn system. If you USE it and FARM it - you can get ISK which can partially pay for system and rest goes to your wallet. If you dont use system - why do you even bother keeping/upgrading it?

Virtuozzo
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:29:00 - [29]
 

Hehehe, Exodus all over again.


Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.11.06 22:30:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Equinox Daedalus
Well going off these figures, 1 system with sov, infrastructure hub, cyno jammer and jumpbridges will cost over 2 bil / month

CVA alone has the most outposts per region, so i'd figure just for outposts alone thats probally 20+ bil isk a month

CCP, you can't really be serious.


How much do you pay in POS fuel currently in comparision?


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