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SofaKing Weetaded
Posted - 2009.11.04 03:05:00 - [1]
 

I'm in Jita, and I'm tempted to buy one (I assume 100mil is a decent price?). I don't have Minmatar cruiser V yet, but I want a fast and more-durable-than-an-inty tackler for my cruiser gangs.

Is it worthwhile getting one? Should I fit it like a Vagabond or differently?

Hiroshima Jita
Posted - 2009.11.04 03:34:00 - [2]
 

The stabber fleet issue is almost as good as a vagabond.


If you fit a scrambler and only close with targets (1) you can take (2) your gang can gank you'll be ok. Nice for roaming cause you got a good chance of escaping the blob just like the vagabond but with even higher agility. Not worth losing the utility high cause that medium nuet was pretty important.


If you want to be orbiting at optimal + falloff at range from the target you want a vagabond.

SofaKing Weetaded
Posted - 2009.11.04 03:42:00 - [3]
 

That's what I was thinking - is 100mil a 'good price'?

RougeOperator
Posted - 2009.11.04 03:46:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: RougeOperator on 04/11/2009 03:47:48
Originally by: SofaKing Weetaded
That's what I was thinking - is 100mil a 'good price'?


That's a Fairly average price. Range from 90mil to 125mil depending on where you are.


Edit: And of course the cynabal will be on a lot of peoples shopping lists after dominion. It will be a lot of peoples second
"Vaga".

Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
Posted - 2009.11.04 07:01:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: SofaKing Weetaded
I want a fast and more-durable-than-an-inty tackler for my cruiser gangs.

Is it worthwhile getting one? Should I fit it like a Vagabond or differently?


The faction Stabber is indeed one of the best faction cruisers (before the new patch at least), but what makes you think that it's move survivable than an inty? It's more EHP ? I don't think so...faction ships act like magnets and you will be pursued and primaried...a lot...
Also a cruiser is way easier to track and shoot than a frig - especially an inty - so with less than perfect skills and the experience to back you up, it's not that a good choice.

Try practicing with standard Stabbers, lose a few to get a hint and grow into that class...than make the switch to Fleet or Vaga when ready (at least with T2 guns, cruiser V etc)...

Belle Tristesse
Posted - 2009.11.04 11:42:00 - [6]
 

Stabber Fleet Issue is an excellent ship. Where are you flying it? If you're in low sec I would recommend that you ignore people's suggestions to fit it like a vaga. It's basically a rupture on steroids. Plate and trimark it and stick on dual webs. Still goes faster than any standard cruiser and will murder any frigs due to the tracking bonus. On gates it can happily have a go at vagas too.

Draeklore
Unknown-Entity
Maru Ka'ge
Posted - 2009.11.04 16:45:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Diomidis
Originally by: SofaKing Weetaded
I want a fast and more-durable-than-an-inty tackler for my cruiser gangs.

Is it worthwhile getting one? Should I fit it like a Vagabond or differently?


The faction Stabber is indeed one of the best faction cruisers (before the new patch at least), but what makes you think that it's move survivable than an inty? It's more EHP ? I don't think so...faction ships act like magnets and you will be pursued and primaried...a lot...
Also a cruiser is way easier to track and shoot than a frig - especially an inty - so with less than perfect skills and the experience to back you up, it's not that a good choice.

Try practicing with standard Stabbers, lose a few to get a hint and grow into that class...than make the switch to Fleet or Vaga when ready (at least with T2 guns, cruiser V etc)...


This really. When gangs see a 100m ship that can be destroyed quite easily they will target you. It's almost like seeing a vaga but without T2 resists. If your looking for something to tackle with survivability then nothing beats an inty.

In my opinion fleet stabber isn't a great choice for a gang ship. Fly a stabber until you can use a vagabond.

Draeklore
Unknown-Entity
Maru Ka'ge
Posted - 2009.11.04 16:55:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Belle Tristesse
Stabber Fleet Issue is an excellent ship. Where are you flying it? If you're in low sec I would recommend that you ignore people's suggestions to fit it like a vaga. It's basically a rupture on steroids. Plate and trimark it and stick on dual webs. Still goes faster than any standard cruiser and will murder any frigs due to the tracking bonus. On gates it can happily have a go at vagas too.


First of all a stabber with bonuses is faster than a stabber fleet issue so that's not really a true statement Smile

A rupture or thorax will also murder frigs. It's not a difficult thing to do.

A fleet stabber won't beat a vaga in a fight unless under some strange circumstances.

Ecky X
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2009.11.04 17:25:00 - [9]
 

There are 2 general ways of fitting a Fleet Stabber.

1600 plate, eanm, dcu, 3 gyros, mwd+tackle, guns + trimarks

OR

3x nano, 3x gyro, MWD + 2x LSE + point, guns + ambits


The first fit is arguably better overall, sporting a mean tank with great damage and speed. However, the plate makes it much easier to get caught and die.

The 2nd fit is not as tough, but will not be caught by anything but an interceptor. It's basically a poor-man's vaga, with a bit less range but better agility.

Aphoticus
Posted - 2009.11.04 18:34:00 - [10]
 

I find the Fleet Issue Stabber to be a great Salvager.

5 lows allows for enough cargo room to fit a good size can, making effective cargo capacity over 2k.

You can even set it up (because it has 40 drone bay) with an assault missile launcher, and tackle, for a nice little ninja looter surprise (2 salvagers and 2 tractor beams, 1 faction assault missile launcher).

I personally, find no other use for the ship.

Draeklore
Unknown-Entity
Maru Ka'ge
Posted - 2009.11.05 00:43:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Draeklore on 05/11/2009 00:43:40
Originally by: Aphoticus


I personally, find no other use for the ship.


For people who like spending the amount of money as 20 ruptures (and isn't much more efficient than one) and getting primaried in gangs.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.11.05 00:50:00 - [12]
 

Quote:


This really. When gangs see a 100m ship that can be destroyed quite easily they will target you. It's almost like seeing a vaga but without T2 resists. If your looking for something to tackle with survivability then nothing beats an inty.



Which is different from a Vaga how? Fleet Stabber has MORE EHP than a Vagabond. Vagabond has t2 resists, but LESS armor/shield HP than even a t1 stabber.


Draeklore
Unknown-Entity
Maru Ka'ge
Posted - 2009.11.05 01:31:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:


This really. When gangs see a 100m ship that can be destroyed quite easily they will target you. It's almost like seeing a vaga but without T2 resists. If your looking for something to tackle with survivability then nothing beats an inty.



Which is different from a Vaga how? Fleet Stabber has MORE EHP than a Vagabond. Vagabond has t2 resists, but LESS armor/shield HP than even a t1 stabber.




A 1600 plated fleet stabber and a shield extended vaga have similar EHP. The difference is the vaga is much faster and has a huge falloff bonus. This means the vagabond will deal damage at a much longer range than the fleet stabber and can dictate its range much better.

The fleet stabber fights like a rupture which led to my statement that you could buy a ton of ruptures for the price of a fleet stabber and be nearly as effective.

The stabber might have slightly more EHP but does not have more survivability than a vaga.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.11.05 02:41:00 - [14]
 



Quote:
A 1600 plated fleet stabber and a shield extended vaga have similar EHP. The difference is the vaga is much faster and has a huge falloff bonus. This means the vagabond will deal damage at a much longer range than the fleet stabber and can dictate its range much better.

The fleet stabber fights like a rupture which led to my statement that you could buy a ton of ruptures for the price of a fleet stabber and be nearly as effective.

The stabber might have slightly more EHP but does not have more survivability than a vaga.



If it was meant to be flown like a rupture then it would be the republic fleet rupture. But it's not.


HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
Posted - 2009.11.05 03:05:00 - [15]
 

You can hold 2 things to be true:

-the fleet stabber is much more effective in the 1600mm role than it is vs the Vaga role
-there is no reason to fly the fleet stabber over the vagabond or rupture as far as far as cost vs combat effectiveness is concerned.

If your going to fly it, i'd use it as a super pimp rupture. But it is subpar both in performance vs vaga and in cost effectiveness vs rupture.

Draeklore
Unknown-Entity
Maru Ka'ge
Posted - 2009.11.05 03:15:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Kahega Amielden


Quote:
A 1600 plated fleet stabber and a shield extended vaga have similar EHP. The difference is the vaga is much faster and has a huge falloff bonus. This means the vagabond will deal damage at a much longer range than the fleet stabber and can dictate its range much better.

The fleet stabber fights like a rupture which led to my statement that you could buy a ton of ruptures for the price of a fleet stabber and be nearly as effective.

The stabber might have slightly more EHP but does not have more survivability than a vaga.



If it was meant to be flown like a rupture then it would be the republic fleet rupture. But it's not.




So then how do you fly it? Apparently a 1600 plate and AC's are not the correct way I guess I was mistaken.

Nikea Tiber
Noir. Academy
Posted - 2009.11.05 06:12:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Kahega Amielden


Quote:
A 1600 plated fleet stabber and a shield extended vaga have similar EHP. The difference is the vaga is much faster and has a huge falloff bonus. This means the vagabond will deal damage at a much longer range than the fleet stabber and can dictate its range much better.

The fleet stabber fights like a rupture which led to my statement that you could buy a ton of ruptures for the price of a fleet stabber and be nearly as effective.

The stabber might have slightly more EHP but does not have more survivability than a vaga.



If it was meant to be flown like a rupture then it would be the republic fleet rupture. But it's not.




Except it is basically a faster rupture. It isn't a vaga because it lacks 2 critical elements; a falloff bonus and HAC resists. If you fit it like a vaga your EHP is pathetic and it doesn't really deal a whole lot of damage outside of web range, so you plate it and fly it like a faster rupture. It may look like a stabber, but it is just a pimped out dumpsterthron™

Ecky X
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2009.11.05 07:04:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Ecky X on 05/11/2009 07:04:11
Originally by: Nikea Tiber
Except it is basically a faster rupture. It isn't a vaga because it lacks 2 critical elements; a falloff bonus and HAC resists. If you fit it like a vaga your EHP is pathetic and it doesn't really deal a whole lot of damage outside of web range, so you plate it and fly it like a faster rupture. It may look like a stabber, but it is just a pimped out dumpsterthron™



Fit like a Vaga, it has similar EHP and similar damage, with similar velocity and better agility. It lacks a medium neut, and falloff bonus, but has an additional rig slot for another ambit, and a 50% tracking bonus.

It can be flown like a Vaga quite nicely.

Kazang
Wrecking Shots
Posted - 2009.11.05 10:12:00 - [19]
 

Yes you can fit it like a vaga but that is far from optimal as it's pretty much inferior to the vaga in damage, utility and GFTO-ability. Really the only reason to do this is if you really want to fly a vaga right now but can't because you don't have minny cruiser V.


Its best used as super rupture with a 1600 and trimarks. Its doesn't really do any more damage than a rupture but it has much higher HP and with moderate pimping (amarr navy eanm) and a slave set it gets a really nice amount of EHP. It still goes 1700m/s and aligns as fast as a regular stabber.
On top of the huge buffer it's sig radius is tiny at only 94m, which lets it get under the tracking of medium guns quite easily, it feels more like an AF than a cruiser.

Then of course that fact that everyone wants to kill you can be both annoying and it's greatest strength. People will have a go thinking easy loot and its just a cruiser only to find it can be pretty tricky to kill.
Without slaves its not so impressive, its still pretty sweet but rather expensive for something that does die easily if you mess up.
I would stick with the rupture until your confident with what you can pull off then make the step up to a fleet stabber and i would never fly the fleet stabber in any kind of fleet fight where it would be called primary.


Anyway the fleet stabber is underrated and is a excellent, but expensive toy, when used as a super rupture but is little more than a impatient man's vaga if you choose to nano it. Sounds like you should just fly a stabber or a rupture for your cruiser skirmishes.



Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2009.11.05 10:20:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Kazang
Then of course that fact that everyone wants to kill you can be both annoying and it's greatest strength. People will have a go thinking easy loot and its just a cruiser only to find it can be pretty tricky to kill.


This is the FIS's best strength. I can get people to attack me in just about anything in order to get on a faction killmail. People who will run screaming from a Vagabond, will rush to tackle you for that kill.

I've had dozens of kills in these babies just because people lose all comprehension of reality when they see it show up on their scanner.

Belle Tristesse
Posted - 2009.11.05 12:54:00 - [21]
 

My Fleet Stabber has far greater ehp than a Vaga it also has dual DG webs that over load out to 16k. But as we know no one ever ever ever gets that close in a vaga do they?

I think it's a really nice ship and worth it's price tag if you're going to fly it in the right places. Just leave the null sec kiddies and their bubble death alone.

Because people think "it's just a cruiser" you can get surprising results. In low sec I'd have one over most HACs anyday.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2009.11.05 13:31:00 - [22]
 

Quote:

Its best used as super rupture with a 1600 and trimarks. Its doesn't really do any more damage than a rupture but it has much higher HP and with moderate pimping (amarr navy eanm) and a slave set it gets a really nice amount of EHP. It still goes 1700m/s and aligns as fast as a regular stabber.



Isn't a stabber an agile ship to get a point but not as fragile as a frigate?

Don't you kinda nullify all of that by putting an huge plate + trimarks on it?

Marko Riva
Posted - 2009.11.05 13:38:00 - [23]
 

Never having flown it because it just doesn't seem worth it, tried some fittings and it's either a fast ruppy with close to BC EHP or a nice and fast Vaga with enough speed, agility, falloff range and damage to work quite well.

Personally, IF would I fly a non-cost effective ship like this I'd fly it as a vaga. The pros of the 3rd rig and Valks outweigh the resist gap, mostly because you get to choose your targets.

Draeklore
Unknown-Entity
Maru Ka'ge
Posted - 2009.11.05 13:45:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Ecky X
Edited by: Ecky X on 05/11/2009 07:04:11
Originally by: Nikea Tiber
Except it is basically a faster rupture. It isn't a vaga because it lacks 2 critical elements; a falloff bonus and HAC resists. If you fit it like a vaga your EHP is pathetic and it doesn't really deal a whole lot of damage outside of web range, so you plate it and fly it like a faster rupture. It may look like a stabber, but it is just a pimped out dumpsterthron™



Fit like a Vaga, it has similar EHP and similar damage, with similar velocity and better agility. It lacks a medium neut, and falloff bonus, but has an additional rig slot for another ambit, and a 50% tracking bonus.

It can be flown like a Vaga quite nicely.


Except that it lacks the speed bonus and the falloff bonus of the Vaga which are two of the critical bonuses in how the Vaga operates. Flying the vaga properly involves dictating range and living in the falloff range. Also, as you already mentioned, it lacks the medium neut which is a very important mod. Also 50% tracking bonus is wasted once you setart piloting like a vaga.

So now you have a ship that is not as fast as a vaga, has to be closer to its target than a vaga, and lacks the medium neut. Yet you are still trying to fly it like a vaga and paying a hefty price for it at the same time.

The fleet stabber should be fitted like a rupture else you are just being inefficient as you could just fly a vaga itself and do it properly.

Kazang
Wrecking Shots
Posted - 2009.11.05 13:52:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:

Its best used as super rupture with a 1600 and trimarks. Its doesn't really do any more damage than a rupture but it has much higher HP and with moderate pimping (amarr navy eanm) and a slave set it gets a really nice amount of EHP. It still goes 1700m/s and aligns as fast as a regular stabber.



Isn't a stabber an agile ship to get a point but not as fragile as a frigate?

Don't you kinda nullify all of that by putting an huge plate + trimarks on it?



No you don't nullify all of that.
The Fleet Stabber with trimarks and a 1600 plate has the same agility as a regular stabber(without plates etc) but less straight line speed, but it still has less speed than the regular stabber anyway as it does not get a speed bonus. It is just incredibly light and agile thanks to it's base stats. 1700m/s is still faster than every cruiser other than a vaga/stabber.

Regardless you do not want to use a fleet stabber as primary tackle unless you have money to throw away and insist on using ships outside of their best role. Their are other ships much better suited to that kind of tackling.

Personally I like to think of the fleet stabber as a diemos that doesn't suck.

Marko Riva
Posted - 2009.11.05 14:02:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Marko Riva on 05/11/2009 14:12:30
Originally by: Draeklore
Originally by: Ecky X
Edited by: Ecky X on 05/11/2009 07:04:11
Originally by: Nikea Tiber
Except it is basically a faster rupture. It isn't a vaga because it lacks 2 critical elements; a falloff bonus and HAC resists. If you fit it like a vaga your EHP is pathetic and it doesn't really deal a whole lot of damage outside of web range, so you plate it and fly it like a faster rupture. It may look like a stabber, but it is just a pimped out dumpsterthron™



Fit like a Vaga, it has similar EHP and similar damage, with similar velocity and better agility. It lacks a medium neut, and falloff bonus, but has an additional rig slot for another ambit, and a 50% tracking bonus.

It can be flown like a Vaga quite nicely.


Except that it lacks the speed bonus and the falloff bonus of the Vaga which are two of the critical bonuses in how the Vaga operates. Flying the vaga properly involves dictating range and living in the falloff range. Also, as you already mentioned, it lacks the medium neut which is a very important mod. Also 50% tracking bonus is wasted once you setart piloting like a vaga.

So now you have a ship that is not as fast as a vaga, has to be closer to its target than a vaga, and lacks the medium neut. Yet you are still trying to fly it like a vaga and paying a hefty price for it at the same time.

The fleet stabber should be fitted like a rupture else you are just being inefficient as you could just fly a vaga itself and do it properly.



Fleet stabber 1:
speed 2690
align (MWD) 5
dps @20km 297
EHP 25k

Fleet stabber 2:
speed 2830
align (MWD) 4.5
dps @20km 276
EHP 25k


Vaga:
speed 2940
align (MWD) 5.8
dps @20km 267
EHP 25k


What?

Kazang
Wrecking Shots
Posted - 2009.11.05 14:31:00 - [27]
 

Your math is wrong and not only that but the effective dps of medium drones is less than that of light drones, and vaga combat ranges between 28km and 15km its not fixed at 20km.

The vaga will be doing more effective dps than the stabber at the varying ranges and there is really no reason to use the fleet stabber over the vaga.

Marko Riva
Posted - 2009.11.05 14:44:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Kazang
there is really no reason to use the fleet stabber over the vaga.


No ****, but that wasn't the point. The POINT was to see if the fleet stabber is a decent replacement for someone unable to use a vaga and as someone stated that the stabber is useless compared to a Vaga I felt the need to correct that somewhat. Also my math isn't wrong, fleet stabber in my fit uses dual 180's and while you ofcourse lack the neut those dual180's with 25% tracking bonus do messy things with tacklers trying to get close.

Oh btw;
Fleet stabber @28km: 218 dps
Vaga @28km: 200dps







Draeklore
Unknown-Entity
Maru Ka'ge
Posted - 2009.11.05 16:07:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Marko Riva
Edited by: Marko Riva on 05/11/2009 14:12:30
Originally by: Draeklore
Originally by: Ecky X
Edited by: Ecky X on 05/11/2009 07:04:11
Originally by: Nikea Tiber
Except it is basically a faster rupture. It isn't a vaga because it lacks 2 critical elements; a falloff bonus and HAC resists. If you fit it like a vaga your EHP is pathetic and it doesn't really deal a whole lot of damage outside of web range, so you plate it and fly it like a faster rupture. It may look like a stabber, but it is just a pimped out dumpsterthron™



Fit like a Vaga, it has similar EHP and similar damage, with similar velocity and better agility. It lacks a medium neut, and falloff bonus, but has an additional rig slot for another ambit, and a 50% tracking bonus.

It can be flown like a Vaga quite nicely.


Except that it lacks the speed bonus and the falloff bonus of the Vaga which are two of the critical bonuses in how the Vaga operates. Flying the vaga properly involves dictating range and living in the falloff range. Also, as you already mentioned, it lacks the medium neut which is a very important mod. Also 50% tracking bonus is wasted once you setart piloting like a vaga.

So now you have a ship that is not as fast as a vaga, has to be closer to its target than a vaga, and lacks the medium neut. Yet you are still trying to fly it like a vaga and paying a hefty price for it at the same time.

The fleet stabber should be fitted like a rupture else you are just being inefficient as you could just fly a vaga itself and do it properly.



Fleet stabber 1:
speed 2690
align (MWD) 5
dps @20km 297
EHP 25k

Fleet stabber 2:
speed 2830
align (MWD) 4.5
dps @20km 276
EHP 25k


Vaga:
speed 2940
align (MWD) 5.8
dps @20km 267
EHP 25k


What?



Posting a bunch of numbers does not prove anything.

Draeklore
Unknown-Entity
Maru Ka'ge
Posted - 2009.11.05 16:13:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Marko Riva
Originally by: Kazang
there is really no reason to use the fleet stabber over the vaga.


No ****, but that wasn't the point. The POINT was to see if the fleet stabber is a decent replacement for someone unable to use a vaga and as someone stated that the stabber is useless compared to a Vaga I felt the need to correct that somewhat. Also my math isn't wrong, fleet stabber in my fit uses dual 180's and while you ofcourse lack the neut those dual180's with 25% tracking bonus do messy things with tacklers trying to get close.

Oh btw;
Fleet stabber @28km: 218 dps
Vaga @28km: 200dps









Well I wasn't arguing that Rolling Eyes


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