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CCP Dropbear

Posted - 2009.11.06 21:39:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Mikal Drey
will there be some form of summation sticky from you guys about all the pve stickies that navigatior created ? it will be good to see what you guys feel about the feedback we have left and it would be good to see if they are a direction your taking or a direction you now feel that should be taken.


Navigator actually condenses all of these into "reports" he sends to us, in case some of us never had the time to read them all. Many of us just read the threads themselves though.

But feedback on the feedback would be good, yes, and it's a good idea. Maybe we can schedule some time in after Dominion releases to write up some replies. Hell, we could perhaps even address some of the larger issues through a series of Dev Blogs.

Quote:
also with one of the more common elements of PVE being an element of player interaction and consequence it would be great if you could also post what IS and ISNT possible. I know i tend to think within game mechanics but ive noticed people ask for stuff™ and i have no idea if its technically possible.


I completely agree. I think informing you guys about the possibilities and impossibilities will greatly improve the quality of feedback we get. Perhaps that's another thing we could get into in some blogs or some forum walls of text.

But yeah, feedback goes both ways, you're right. We'll see what we can do to provide some in the other direction. Smile

Doctor Dodo
Caldari
Dalek Tactical Industries
Posted - 2009.11.07 04:30:00 - [32]
 

When I completed the Sisters Epic it still felt like just another mission. There was no sense of success. The only thing about the Sisters epic that I want to visit again is the recon mission observing the enemy fleet is that I want to try and take on the fleet and kill as many as I can solo to strip and loot. Other than that I ran through that epic in a raven armed only with rockets and light drones just to use up my stash of rockets. If I had a real weapons layout and did not stop to salvage and take every piece of loot then I could have finished that in 2-3 days.

Nothing is more dangerous than a idiot who thinks he has a good idea. And my ideas are brilliant

The only reason I will look at the sisters epic again is to try and take on the fleet otherwise the sisters epic is just a bland mission overall.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2009.11.07 08:55:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Pottsey on 07/11/2009 09:03:41
The Sansha Modified ´Gnome´ Implant is just about totally useless and not worth a rare reward. The standard Gnome implant is better in every way and you get that from level 4 missions. Basically a standard bonus of 5% hitpoints works out better than 2% hitpoints and 2% recharge.

For example if I swap between the implants I get the below change on my current ship. No matter ship or ship setup the epic is always worse in both areas.

Standard 5% implant gives me 1519 hitpoints and 16.02 HP regen
Epic 2% 2% low sec implant gives me 608 hitpoints and 13.08 HP regen

Why would anyone use the Epic reward when the standard implant gives you more hitpoints and more Hitpoint regen? Should a low sec Epic reward be worse than a standard implant?

Although not as bad as that implant the drone range module is poor. Really 2km more range over a T1 module! So I go from 80km to 82km. or 100km to 102km If you look at the standed change between T1 and T2 modules then look at what a T2 drone module would look like if it it existed that the T2 drone module would be much better than the epic drone module.

For the Gallante missions the variety of missions was very poor it was just like level 4 missions. Warp in aggro everything wait for wave after wave to turn up. Immersion was worse than level 4 missions as what you did never mattered. You could go into one site blow things up move things about, leave things lying behind then you do the next missions and everything vanished. Items left behind go, buildings suddenly reappear that's a massive Immersion breaker.

For example the epic mission part "An Economy Under Threat" I warped into the massive drone hive and I had blown it up in the mission "Passive Observation" it had automatically respawned. Things you do in the mission "Passive Observation" do not matter as the area defaults on the mission "An Economy Under Threat". Drones I left behind vanished. Wrecks vanished as it was really a new site. Why not make it so you warp back to the same site but a trigger makes new ships appear or whatever

Another problem with the Gallatne arch, as players we are forced into unnecessary violence. The missions are basically fail or go kill a group of innocent people until they decide to talk. No sensible option of hail them and speak, no you have to shoot them until they decide to talk. Repeat this for mission after mission. Who cares if they are on our side you don't speak to them first. Shoot first then talk. Which again breaks Immersion. That should be a Concord response in the Eve world. Your asking us to break the law and do something that will cause Concord to blow us up according to the lore.

We don't even treat enemies that bad. In the arch you must kill 100's of non bounty ships and millions of innocent people. I lost count of how many battleships that we had to blow up that had nothing to do with the bad guys and where not pirates.

Why not have us talk to some NPC's in ships and depending on what choice we make we get the info or have to shoot.
We should be able to hail them warp into the area and have a Cosmos style NPC to chat to with chat options leading to different responses' in the mission. Perhaps link the social skills and makes things chance base. We might say the wrong thing and disrespect them so they won't talk and are only left with shooting. If everyone goes around killing people on their own side whenever they need a lead and have no leads left the galaxy would fall apart.

Use the agent branching window. NPC says something I choose response 1,2,3,4 depending on choice he reacts. Perhaps option 4 has a 50% chance of being good unless I have high social skills and it goes up to 70% chance.

In short part of the arch is. We don't have any leads; go shoot up some friends and allies until we have a better idea.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2009.11.07 09:17:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Pottsey on 07/11/2009 09:29:27
To expand on my post

To expand real immersion this is how the Gallante epic should have gone. Epic agent in star base we have no leads go investigate X area I don't trust those guys. I warp into the area and see some NPC ships I open chat up with one. He says bla ,blah blah, F off this is our area we don't like visitors.

The chat window has 5 options.
1: F off you self, curse him, this triggers combat.
2: I am looking for x here is a low x mill donation/bribe. This triggers me getting info without a fight.
3: I am looking for x here is a low 1000 isk donation/bribe. Triggers deeper chat line and he is not happy at the disrespect lose standings? or just a deeper chat tree with more options.
4: I do a diplomacy check and say something fancy. Based on social skills I either get what I want for free or end up in combat. x % chance of respond based on social skills. Makes the unused charisma skills more useful.
5: I offer a stupidly high bribe and get a bonus reward/ extra info.
6: You guys need anything doing, in exchange for info? I get what I wont in the end but need to do an extra task.

If not too much coding you could instead of making the bribe a set fee. Make it a blank window to type numbers in and how much you bribe triggers diffrent responce.

That's immersion. All it is, is an epic agent with branching options in space which the text options triggering different things.

Forcing to do something unlawful or confirming your character as a psychopathic mass murderer is not immersion. Giving us different ways to compleate a mission. That's immersion. Wave after wave of ships is no immersion thats just standed level 4 missions.


EDIT:
Thinking about it more the Gallante Epic arch is more like a pirate arch. You investigation gets to a dead-end so you go around blowing up ally civilian homes, murdering families that are just trying to make a living in the hopes that someone comes up and talks to you and you do this more than one in more than one mission. That's how pirates act. We should have warped in and talked.
Why do we not get standings hits, why do the police and concord ignore us? Why is the mass murder of people who have nothing to do with the bad guys the only option?


Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2009.11.07 13:58:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Pottsey on 07/11/2009 14:09:55
I ran into a lot of immersion breaking situations and large bugs.

In the Gallante arch I warped to Audalle Roire all was fine at first. Then the red mercenaries warped in once they engaged me so my drones engaged them. Then Audalle Roire and his white ships decided my drones are valid targets and started firing at them this trigged my drones to fire back to defend themselves. Being a high SP pilot my drones made short work of Audalle Roire and the so called good guys. This leads to two immersion problems. First from my point of view I warp to Audalle Roire who just betrayed me and joined in with the mercenaries to kill me and the mercenaries and my drones in fact it looks like Audalle Roire called in the mercenaries and as the mercenaries and white ships were not fighting instead both focusing on me it looked like an ambush. Yet I am meant to ignore this and start working for him and doing what he says as though all is ok!! The second problem is I just killed Audalle Roire, I can see his wreck yet the missions text reads like he is ok and nothing happened.

I assume this was more a bug then how it's meant to be. But it's a massive immersion breaker.

More a minor niggle but at the end of the above mission the text makes you sound incompetent and like it's your fault the rats came in. It doesn't matter if you're the top 1% of POD pilots who is an Elite Covert op specialist who main role is to not be followed. It doesn't matter if you warped cloaked though a wormhole and it's impossible to follow you. The text reads like your incompetent, couldn't have known you where being followed and a stranded pilot like you couldn't have done anything about it. That was immersion breaking for me as pod pilots we are not standard pilots. As pod pilots some of us are classed as Elite Covert op specialist's. We would not make such a basic stupid mistake as to let someone follow us. So now from my point of view Audalle Roire just set up an ambush and tried to kill me, he shot at me and came back from the dead and is now blaming me for the pirates and calling me incompetent. But my only option to ignore all this and keep working for him or fail the epic arch. At least I had the satisfaction of killing him.

The next problem is the really irritating pointless time syncs. First let me say I have no problem needing salvagers, hacking or archaeology modules for Epic missions in fact its a good idea. I do have a problem when I have to waste a lot of time with pointless flying around. The agent sends me x jumps I don't recall. Land 45km from an acceleration gate with no enemies, nothing appears. You have to fly 45km for no reason other than to waste time. Pocket two land 45km no enemies, one friendly who says something after a while 1 single rat group appear. Pocket 3 land 50km from an object. Find out I need a salvager. Fly 5 jumps for nearest salvager, fly 5 jumps back. Fly back and go another 100km split between the pockets to salvage. Thats 200km inside one sector.

Just what was the point of the first 45km empty gate? Do you really need to fly a total of 200km? There is no way to know about the distance or salvage beforehand unless you read guides on missions which where not around when Ii did the mission. On top of all this you have two hours to salvage or fail the mission; it's a level 4 mission so most have big slow battleships. Frigs dont work as you know its a level 4 and need a tank.

Just to be clear I love the idea of needing salvagers, hacking or archaeology modules. But I don't like the way the missions was setup so players ended up doing 10 to 20jump and flying 200km between 3 pockets.

As others have said as though the pockets of 45km are not bad enough. Gallante also have lots of 12 jump travel sessions in a battleship. I think I spent more time jumping and flying all those 45km pockets then I did doing the missions. This is nothing but an irritating pointless time sync.

Doctor Dodo
Caldari
Dalek Tactical Industries
Posted - 2009.11.08 04:13:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Pottsey
Edited by: Pottsey on 07/11/2009 09:29:27

The chat window has 5 options.
1: F off you self, curse him, this triggers combat.
2: I am looking for x here is a low x mill donation/bribe. This triggers me getting info without a fight.
3: I am looking for x here is a low 1000 isk donation/bribe. Triggers deeper chat line and he is not happy at the disrespect lose standings? or just a deeper chat tree with more options.
4: I do a diplomacy check and say something fancy. Based on social skills I either get what I want for free or end up in combat. x % chance of respond based on social skills. Makes the unused charisma skills more useful.
5: I offer a stupidly high bribe and get a bonus reward/ extra info.
6: You guys need anything doing, in exchange for info? I get what I wont in the end but need to do an extra task.



I like that idea and think that it could be used in regular missions as well this will make combat monkeys happy as well as those that would be happy to pay a fee to speed up finishing the mission to if they are doing them for standings.


syphurous
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2009.11.09 20:44:00 - [37]
 

I'm not going to spoil it for everyone else, but there are some triggers most of you are missing because you are just "lvl4'ing it". Just because you think you have finished it, does not mean there is no more to do.

Though there needs to be more actual interaction, and the paths need to be based on actions, not choices. The missions could be multi gated dungeons, with multiple paths, and as you progress through, you are prompted and warned of you're actions. Choosing a certain path, locks other paths or choices as you go through. Little hidden triggers everywhere, so you are rewarded for doing things out of the ordinary or thinking outside the box.

Rewards need to be balanced, but penatlies should not be huge. If you want people running them over and over every 3 months, you have to ensure that they have reason to come back that doesn't mess with the rest of time they are playing eve.

I have done all but the Minmatar Arc. The Amarr one is the easiest, the Caldari next, and finally the Gallente is the one I had issue with, damage types done with weapons that cant do those damages normally, and my logistic pilot being shot for full damage at 90+km. I also came across some bugs, I reported them.

If we could get a unique paint job for our Labs, I'd appreciate it :P

I got part way through the new Pirate Arcs (On Sisi) before they bugged out, and simply know they wont be played because you have put them in the stupidiest places. Also, the Russians are going to farm Gila's and crash their price. When they figure out how to do it, they will be able to pull out up to 20 a day with very little effort per pilot. I'm not about to explain how its possible, but I've been told its mechanics of the Arcs and wont be reporting it as a bug.

Doctor Dodo
Caldari
Dalek Tactical Industries
Posted - 2009.11.09 23:45:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: syphurous
I'm not going to spoil it for everyone else, but there are some triggers most of you are missing because you are just "lvl4'ing it". Just because you think you have finished it, does not mean there is no more to do.




One of the reasons that I will be redoing the Sisters epic in a different ship and a different layout is to get a second opinion of it

Oh and to try and take on the the massive npc fleet myselfLaughing



Sarah Sweetypie
Posted - 2009.11.10 04:42:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Sarah Sweetypie on 10/11/2009 04:43:09
Edited by: Sarah Sweetypie on 10/11/2009 04:42:45
Feedback

Whats lacking in keywords
1) Immersion
2) Dynamics
3) Persistent

  1. Immersion

  2. The current situation can be quickly described by
    Big wall of text -> shoot stuff -> big wall of text -> move 12 jumps -> big wall of text ..... repeat untill done
    Text, be it in the agent window (wich is still jumpy and a big immersion breaker ) or in local or as a click to close window, doesnt do much to drag me into the story.
    Why is that ? Because even as a 1 month old eve player you know all missions are
    Wall of text -> go there shoot everything (perhaps bring something back) -> complete mission
    The epic part of it apparently denotes that the next mission is not going to be a random mission but more like a Recon 2 of 3 or something along those lines
    There are no special music cues no voice acting nothing.
    The only thing that that you could see is White crosses circling together with Red crosses and then most of them exploding right away before you can get your bearings
    Then we have things like bring XY to station ZX because only they can look at it. But when you arrive there it looks like every other station in eve and the interior is obviously exactly the same because atm we only have 4 (more a general eve gripe i suppose)
    Of course the issues further down with persistance are also immersion breakers
    And last but not least there is the overwhelming lack of a sense of acomplishment

  3. Dynamics

  4. 1 Static agent sends you to another static agent that everybody can see who sends you to another static agent that everybody can see who ....
    Incase god forbid you replay the arc (with an alt perhaps) or help a friend or a noob in local (lol right) youve seen it all before the missions react exactly the same and there is 0% variety
    The difficulty curve is made completly arbitrarily and doesnt react to what you bring or how fast you do it or say if you decide to take on the carrier in the lvl1 arc

  5. Persistance

  6. Agents are persistant, dozens of people swarming some agent in space but you are on a special special hush hush mission ....
    Some solar systems where you get sent to appear to be persistant with the upcoming lvl3's(or i just had bad rolls)
    Both are a bad thing especialy in 0.0
    The Missions themselves have no consequence whatsoever
    structures / ships magicaly reapear in the next mission although you shot them.



Then we have things like "ther are choices"
but the choice is ether press here to shoot somebody else for a change
or press here to not go into lowsec with your 2bil missioning ship
or press here if you prefer the non terrible reward

And some storyline issues
your only choice being to be a mass murderer if youd like to continue

We also have the issue of the rewards wich has been discussed back and forth


im sure there are many more things to discuss but im tired Wink

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2009.11.10 07:10:00 - [40]
 

syphurous said "I'm not going to spoil it for everyone else, but there are some triggers most of you are missing because you are just "lvl4'ing it".
Please can you post some examples or Eve mail me. I never found any of the Gallente triggers.

Estella Vance
Posted - 2009.11.10 23:43:00 - [41]
 

Haven't started arcs yet, but planning to try out them in december.

From what I read so far, some rewards really don't seem appropriate.
Amarr EPIC arc's (the one I'll be doing) final reward is 2% armor/shield hp + 2% armor/shield repair implant??? Doesn't sound epic at all to meNeutral
I haven't looked on contracts for how much they sell, but if they go for hundreds of millions, my guess is, that it's only because they are pretty rare.

Considering that I can't give any real feedback on actual missions yet, I just wanted to add:
If so many people are saying, that reward is not good enough for accomplishment, that it represents, maybe it's true... Confused

SCGhozt
Posted - 2009.11.11 02:43:00 - [42]
 

i consider myself a noob (about 7mil sp) so please disreguard this message if i'm wrong. ok so i been running level 4 missions for months now and i have never heard about these missions. ofcourse i have heard about them from sites but shouldnt u be told by agents about it? there is a lot of things like this one that unless its looked up on other sites, i would have never hear about them.

Doctor Dodo
Caldari
Dalek Tactical Industries
Posted - 2009.11.11 08:58:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: SCGhozt
i consider myself a noob (about 7mil sp) so please disreguard this message if i'm wrong. ok so i been running level 4 missions for months now and i have never heard about these missions. ofcourse i have heard about them from sites but shouldnt u be told by agents about it? there is a lot of things like this one that unless its looked up on other sites, i would have never hear about them.


My padwan when you become strong in the power of pwanage the grand poobar himself will impart the information you need to find the agents as was done to me









but i did ind a net search was faster and clearerLaughing




Syekuda
Hell's Revenge
Posted - 2009.11.11 14:38:00 - [44]
 

I didn't read any of the replies or post but 1 thing hit me when I did only 1 mission. I was surprise to find out that ccp wants to send you in low/null sec directly.

For me I don't mind cause I knew what ship or what type of ship would be better and what type of setup would work best just in case. But looking at the mission briefing, I was "not" surprise to find out that theres nothing of that there.

Sure its low sec so expect blob, gatecamps, bubbles and such but some kind of guide inside the game would help those guys who don't have that info. Make a link to the wiki from the agent and let the agent do the role play. Something in the line of "if you need a refreshing course on traveling in a dangerous system, click here". Then the wiki would pop up or some page with really helpful tips on what type of ship would be better and such.

besides that, can't say too much since I haven't done enough epic arc missions but I loved it in general. Besides that, I really loved the high bounty npc's. That I loved cause it brings a bit of a challenge to the mission...at lastTwisted Evil

Rick Rockshard
Posted - 2009.11.13 17:58:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Queen Mira
Arc Missions (at least Caldari) is utter #*[email protected]%!! I know it's been said above...but I ain't gonna take my 5 billion isk CNR to low sec!! Not to mention 2 billion of implants in danger. CCP you have failed yet again. The Sleepers where not worth it & unbalanced. Over a year into playing (10hrs+ a day) & I am getting fed up that things can't get changed up. Same 'ole missions & no advanced ones (tech 2 ships). If we are not going to low sec to run lvl5 missions (shame on you for that) than what makes you think we would want to do arc missions in low sec. Are you trying to force us on PVPers? Eff yous then! It's bad enough all the good Amarr agents are in/thru low sec. I will start vocalizing my dislikes more & more on the forums.


the real question is, why do you think you need a ship anymore than a standard t2 fit to run any mission? the argument of CCP "forcing" you to put billions of isk at risk is like saying McDonalds is at fault for making people that eat a bigmac everyday fat.

If you ran the low missions in an insured t2 fitted battleship the loss if you pop = minimal, if you run em in a small gang the chance of getting poped = less than minimal if you are a decent player. Again though, you still have the option of staying in carebear land and saving up more billions for other basically worthless items (since you cant actually risk them to play the game according to your logic).

all reward and no risk makes EVE a dull game

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.11.16 15:36:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 16/11/2009 23:45:11
The Caldari mission arc was awesome sauce and more to.

Not only did I read all the mission descriptions and dialogs, I wrote them all down for further roleplaying reference material. Of course, people who can't manage to read two lines of text (so they won't make it this far in this post) might find lack of immersion and story but I most certainly did not.

The story was much more clear and the missions better connected than the SOE arc btw.

Sending people into low sec and possible no sec to do missions that can be handled safely in a shuttle was a good idea. There wouldn't be much "epic" if it was just the same drill as always imo. People need to be shaked up a bit, and the involved low sec areas are far from what I would label as "high risk zones".

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.11.16 23:41:00 - [47]
 

Btw. is one or more of the NPCs in the mission "Across the Line" using the advanced AI (aka. Sleeper AI)? If so, brilliant work.

Harold Hammerstein
Caldari
KINGS OF EDEN
Sev3rance
Posted - 2009.11.17 14:56:00 - [48]
 

TLDR:
- Had a lot of fun
- rewards could do with some work
- some bugs & mission text issues
- more level 4s for only Assault Frigs / HACs / ect, please?

I wrote this as a review of sorts so here goes...

CCP - I have really enjoyed the level 4 epic arc. So far I have ran the Caldari "Prenumbra" arc to completion. The ships that I used were a Hawk Assault Frigate (t2 tank & guns), a Buzzard Covert Ops (t2 tank, probes, hack), and a vanilla Raven (t2 tank, best named t1 guns). I completed all missions solo, on a character with ~ 10 million skill points.


None of the combat missions took me into lowsec, and I found them a lot of fun - and they did not require a 2+ Billion ISK faction fit Navy Raven. I especially enjoyed using a Hawk to complete the "Right Tool for the Job" and "The Breakout". I found myself manually in control of my ship as I weaved, twisted and turn around the Gallente. This was a refreshing change from the usual keep the Raven stationary, and spam missiles at the right targets.


The low sec missions were tense with the drama provided by player pirates. But thankfully with proper planning and a bit of mapping - I had worked out a route by hand looking at maps to avoid systems with a high number of kills, and the right ship (something with a covert ops cloak) these went smoothly; but were not completely without drama. Are those combat scan probes on d-scan?! quick, quick cloak! And the roaming gang - spikes in local!


The Final mission in my arc was the most challenging mission I have ever done (so far). I first scouted it out in the buzzard, found that I could wrap around - so I made bookmarks. The mission turned into a 2 hour guerilla style battle in the end with my Raven making tactical jumps, sniping targets. It was a lot of fun! I was nearly falling out of my chair at times.


All in all - I think you have made a great story with a nice variety of missions. However I have some criticisms


1. The reward is nice. but... A nice "POS" lab module is going to be the holy grail for a select few, but it's an instant listing on contract for most. Perhaps - a choose your own reward of comparably valued items regardless of "good" or "bad" story paths - a different pool of items? A nice shiney combat module or a new ship?

2. Mission bugs. I ran into two - The Federation detention facility was not in lowsec! But why in the mission text, is it listed like that? The hacking in "Right tool for the job" was bugged for me, after I hacked the ship yard - the can disappeared. I had to petition it to get my item.

Suggestions

1. I enjoyed flying the Assault frig so much - I would LOVE to see Level 4 type difficulty missions geared only towards different classes of hulls: the Frigate class (Assault Frig, stealth bomber) and the cruiser class (HACs, Recon, ect)

2. in that same vein - low-sec missions geared to frig / cruiser hulls; with a balanced risk/reward. No sane person is going to risk a 100+ million ISK battleship for a few million and some loyalty points. They might risk a cruiser however.

3. some sort of official "decoration" that you can share - say "Hey! I won the level 4 epic arc" gold star on your character sheet. Everyone likes getting gold stars...


Thanks for a great game! Smile

something somethingdark
Posted - 2009.11.18 07:21:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 16/11/2009 23:45:11
Not only did I read all the mission descriptions and dialogs, I wrote them all down for further roleplaying reference material. Of course, people who can't manage to read two lines of text (so they won't make it this far in this post) might find lack of immersion and story but I most certainly did not.



But its not about not being able to read two lines of text is it ?
It is about EvE-Online being a computer game and thus having allot of possibilities to immerse players in a story. Possibilities that are completly unused and instead the bare minimum "Wall of text with scrollbars" is used.
Missions and infact EvE could be so much more but sadly it isnt.

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.11.18 14:46:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 18/11/2009 14:55:44
I always evaluate things in the context or environment they were created. Not according to standards I see impossible to implement or have too little return in regard to time invested.

As such, I think the epic arcs are doing the most with the tools provided. And while it would be great, if epic arcs and missions in general was as diverse as in a game designed specifically around this topic, I do not see it could be done much better with the current EVE game engine. Some of the things asked for here are not possible unless the mission designers get completely new and very advanced tools, which I judge is very unlikely to happen.

I am quite aware that if CCP suddenly decided to rewrite the game engine to support a more advanced PvE environment a lot of things could be improved, but I strongly doubt CCP would ever do that. Their stated focus is human interaction, primarily through competition with others like in sports with its winners and losers.

Also, plenty of others MMOs are designed specifically around PvE for those who want that kind of entertainment anyway. They do it good and it would be bad business to try and compete with them.

So perhaps it would have been nice to have a reduction in mission text, but more direct confrontations between players. Going to low sec is not enough CCP, we need more competition. There is only something epic about winning the World Cup if not everybody can win the World Cup.

Zalrizien
Rizien Fleet
Posted - 2009.11.20 15:16:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Zalrizien on 20/11/2009 15:17:11
I know nothing of programming/code/etc. So this thought may be impractical.

I always thought it would be 'neat-o' if EvE could reconize when 2 players, from different factions, of the same "caliber" (skill points/whatever) are opening an agent looking for a kill mission.

EvE would then generate a standard 'kill the boss' mission in a system of an equal distance from each other. Upon arrival each player would have an equal number of NPC's 'on his side'. Of course the players would probably go right after each other. Some NPC's would target the players, some would target each other.

You kill the other player, you win. You die to the other player, you fail the mission. If you warp off from the fight, and the opposing player kills all your NPC support, you fail the mission, he wins. If you can return before all your support is dead, the battle continues on.

Of course each player would not know the boss will be another player until they were on the same grid. Niether would know the ship type they were facing nor the mods he may have. It may be an NPC boss, it may be another player.

Whatcha think? Is that fesible?

(this may be in the wrong forum, sorry if it is. )

Fergus Runkle
Minmatar
Truth and Reconciliation Council
Posted - 2009.11.23 15:49:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Mikal Drey
one of the biggest letdowns is the branching factor. epic should be epic. i still stare in amazement at the photo i took of the branching slide and thats what i really want. i want my choices to drive the story. the current branching is crap and again a simple misison choice but i really really believe that agent/pilot/mission interaction is possible. if i get told theres a possible bad guy in the deadspace i wanna be able to choose wether or not i believe that story and wether or not his anhilation determines my next mission not the predetermined arc. i wanna be buggered if i make the wrong decision or be driven further down the rabbit hole. i dont want to see guides i wanna hear stories of what happened to a pilot and how his story completely differed from mine although we had the same start point. 1 misison (at branch points) should have at least 2 or more possible outcomes thats pilot action determined. mision, grind, mission, grind, choose mision , grind... ISNT immersive.



Highlighted for emphasis, seriously (in the minnie arc anyway) where the heck is the branching?

Yoshinsu Ashimara
Posted - 2009.12.01 22:11:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Queen Mira
Arc Missions (at least Caldari) is utter #*[email protected]%!! I know it's been said above...but I ain't gonna take my 5 billion isk CNR to low sec!! Not to mention 2 billion of implants in danger. CCP you have failed yet again. The Sleepers where not worth it & unbalanced. Over a year into playing (10hrs+ a day) & I am getting fed up that things can't get changed up. Same 'ole missions & no advanced ones (tech 2 ships). If we are not going to low sec to run lvl5 missions (shame on you for that) than what makes you think we would want to do arc missions in low sec. Are you trying to force us on PVPers? Eff yous then! It's bad enough all the good Amarr agents are in/thru low sec. I will start vocalizing my dislikes more & more on the forums.


I'm sorry but your an idiot..... if you can afford 7 billion on ships and implans you can afford a 25mil interceptor and 100k jump clone :) GO play X3 you single player carebear!

Siminuria
Troglodytes of Narnia
Posted - 2009.12.02 19:46:00 - [54]
 

I think epic arcs should play more to their inherent strengths and not be modified to give greater rewards. There are is already a plethora of occupations in eve that are around purely to earn people isk and I don't think epic arcs need to try and compete with that.

What I would like to see instead for any future arcs is:
1) A greater number of unique item rewards spread throughout the course of the arc - They don't need to be particularly valuable, just having stuff with cool names and maybe a bit of back story in the descriptions is cool and adds to the immersion in the world of eve.
2) Less low sec branches for empire arcs - The people who run empire arcs are not low sec mission runners and I doubt very many of them ever pick the low sec paths (ccp will have the stats on that ofc, any chance of seeing them?). If the branches were in high sec and corresponded perhaps to different levels of difficulty, I think this would be better.


I actually quite enjoyed the storyline of the epic mission arcs and getting a whole load of new missions was a fun change too. It would be great to see some more arcs :)

Nex Aeolis
Clearly Compensating
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.02 22:56:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Nex Aeolis on 02/12/2009 22:58:03
Just finished the Arch Angel epic missions.
Was extremely boring. Pretty much almost every mission required me to go several jumps to do something for 10 minutes then return back to base and do something else.

It needs more story line, and more missions that take you deeper into the whole epic mission arc.

The only good thing of these missions was my Domination Painter and my new Cynabal.

(picture of the last mission debriefing)
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r180/trig12/eveepicarcmission.jpg

Aaliane
Posted - 2009.12.03 19:57:00 - [56]
 

I have tried to do Guristas epic arc. and I am in part 2 where you steal capital ship plans.. I got it and I had completed mark on mission, but the I got bubbled and lost those plans... is the a way to get it done anyway or do I have to stop whole arc?

Vikarion
Caldari
State Trade Consortium
Posted - 2009.12.03 21:29:00 - [57]
 

I just finished the Angel arc, loved it. It was a lot of fun, especially dodging bubbles and etc in 0.0. That said, I do have a few thoughts:

Pro:
-Limiting who can enter the accelleration gates was a great idea.
-Good rewards, about right for 0.0 missioning.
-Keeping the missions within a few jumps.
-Good on the standings boost. You might increase it slightly.

Con:
-More RP needed in the descriptions, maybe some more local "chatter" from targets.
-Don't include courier missions in epic arcs. They serve as an opportunity to lose the entire arc just because you got unlucky. You're already risking a 25+ mil ISK ship. You can always go back to finish a combat mission in another ship, but once you lose cargo, you're screwed.
-Try to introduce more "flavor" to each pirate faction.

Anyway, I had a lot of fun doing the Angel arc, and look forward to others. Good work, CCP.

Nex Aeolis
Clearly Compensating
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.03 22:36:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Vikarion
I just finished the Angel arc, loved it. It was a lot of fun, especially dodging bubbles and etc in 0.0.


Ha, that made my laugh.

I think you may have ran that epic arc some where else, lol.
That area, although populated, is retaliatory quiet.

Vikarion
Caldari
State Trade Consortium
Posted - 2009.12.03 23:23:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Nex Aeolis
Originally by: Vikarion
I just finished the Angel arc, loved it. It was a lot of fun, especially dodging bubbles and etc in 0.0.


Ha, that made my laugh.

I think you may have ran that epic arc some where else, lol.
That area, although populated, is retaliatory quiet.


It's certainly more quiet than Syndicate was (just moved to Curse), but I still managed an interdictor bubble. I was fortunately just outside of the radius.

Loxatl Deathsquad
Posted - 2009.12.04 03:13:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Loxatl Deathsquad on 04/12/2009 03:13:44
Originally by: Harold Hammerstein

The low sec missions were tense with the drama provided by
player pirates. But thankfully with proper planning and a bit of mapping - I had worked out a route by hand looking at maps to avoid systems with a high number of kills, and the right ship (something with a covert ops cloak) these went smoothly; but were not completely without drama. Are those combat scan probes on d-scan?! quick, quick cloak! And the roaming gang - spikes in local!

Low sec missions should get far higher rewards than hisec missions. Giving the option is great.


Originally by: Harold Hammerstein


1. The reward is nice. but... A nice "POS" lab module is going to be the holy grail for a select few, but it's an instant listing on contract for most. Perhaps - a choose your own reward of comparably valued items regardless of "good" or "bad" story paths - a different pool of items? A nice shiney combat module or a new ship?

I think this is a good idea. You should be able to have a list of 4-5 items that the agent offers you and says choose one item as a reward. The pool of rewards as said above should still be better if you go into lowsec.



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