open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Empire Civil Authority
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2009.11.01 03:54:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 01/11/2009 04:00:59
Originally by: Khemul Zula
Can flipper comes in in a shuttle. Flips can. You kill shuttle. Can flipper comes back in a battleship and kills you and happily goes on can flipping.


This is the problem at the heart of it all, and also why you don't see many people trying to police hisec. The way it currently works all security measures in those systems are easily manipulated by the very criminals they're meant to control, and even used against the law abiding victims they're supposed to protect.

If CONCORD were a real security/police outfit they would have been replaced long ago due to constantly blowing up innocent people, or protecting criminals. I imagine if you looked at the logs of people attacked by CONCORD over the average month there would be very few, if any, criminals.

Galan Amarias
Amarr
Kantian Principle
Posted - 2009.11.01 06:02:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 01/11/2009 04:00:59
Originally by: Khemul Zula
Can flipper comes in in a shuttle. Flips can. You kill shuttle. Can flipper comes back in a battleship and kills you and happily goes on can flipping.


This is the problem at the heart of it all, and also why you don't see many people trying to police hisec. The way it currently works all security measures in those systems are easily manipulated by the very criminals they're meant to control, and even used against the law abiding victims they're supposed to protect.

If CONCORD were a real security/police outfit they would have been replaced long ago due to constantly blowing up innocent people, or protecting criminals. I imagine if you looked at the logs of people attacked by CONCORD over the average month there would be very few, if any, criminals.


You do realize that Concord respond to exactly one thing and one thing only right? Global Criminal Countdown. If you have one they kill you, if you don't have one they do nothing. Since you can't be innocent and GCC, how do you suppose Concord has innocent blood on their hands?

Now as for this elected nonsense, the OP needs to do something to gain some level of notoriety and clout. Might has well have an exclamation point saying, hey guys lets all play nice, we can take a vote! I would opposed this idea further but 1st I'd have to get my sec up.

I vote the members of this noble cause come to my low sec system and police us. We are totally out of hand.

-Galan

xxxThe Doctorxxx
Posted - 2009.11.01 06:17:00 - [33]
 

Keep in mind we are talking about 'policing' only a system or so. Not trying to create a New Eden Order. The policing of can-flipping and scamming is only one of several ideas that could be implemented.

Galan Amarias
Amarr
Kantian Principle
Posted - 2009.11.01 06:59:00 - [34]
 

All you need to watch a single system is a corp. You will have very little effect anywhere else in the EVE cluster, one or two systems in high sec are fairly meaningless.

I stand by my earlier statement, if you want people to sign on, make a name for yourself.

-Galan

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2009.11.01 07:01:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Galan Amarias
You do realize that Concord respond to exactly one thing and one thing only right? Global Criminal Countdown. If you have one they kill you, if you don't have one they do nothing. Since you can't be innocent and GCC, how do you suppose Concord has innocent blood on their hands?


I was thinking more of 'carebears' who make mistakes in sec space. They likely make up most of CONCORDs victims. As a deterrent for actual criminal activity they fail because they're just as much of a threat to the law abiding trying to repel the people with long criminal histories.

Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.11.01 07:31:00 - [36]
 

You are trying to create a force and impose laws in high security space? Jesus Christ, talk about doing it wrong, I don't think you could be doing it any more wrong.

Nonetheless, I highly encourage you to try this, just make sure you keep us updated on the forums because I looooove reading stories of fail.

D3F4ULT
Gallente
Pegasus Mining Korp
Posted - 2009.11.01 08:23:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Vaal Erit
You are trying to create a force and impose laws in high security space? Jesus Christ, talk about doing it wrong, I don't think you could be doing it any more wrong.

Nonetheless, I highly encourage you to try this, just make sure you keep us updated on the forums because I looooove reading stories of fail.


ditto.
So much fail.

Higgs Foton
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2009.11.01 08:42:00 - [38]
 

xxxTheDoctorxxx, your plan is stupid. You will be the laughing stock of hisec with your stupid police and patrol ideas. All it takes is one wardec from an evil alliance (and there are LOTS of them around in Empire) and your cunning plan is twarthed.

We do have stuff like you want in EVE though. Thats in 0.0. Are your ready and willing to cut out a piece for yourself and fight for it, or do you want to stay safe in Empire and feel all inportant with your police and elections? Because whatever you do, if you do it in Empire, nobody will notice. And nobody will care. And people with a sense of humor will grief the **** out of you. And they have every right to do so, because EVE only rewards those who thrive on chaos.

I actually have some doubts about that last sentence, but i included it because it is cool to say something like that. :)

Shroomer
Burning Napalm
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.11.01 09:52:00 - [39]
 

I fully support this. Send this character 50 mil, and I will pledge my allegiance, and promise to uphold civility with all my honour.

Edit: Actually, could you make it 100 mil?

Jessica Lorelei
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2009.11.01 11:02:00 - [40]
 

the op is a mentally ill megalomaniac, really he belongs in 0.0 with all the other mentally ill megalomaniacs Twisted Evil

Winters Chill
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2009.11.01 11:17:00 - [41]
 

I applaud this initiative.

Only because when you seek to impose order you create chaos and destruction.

Destruction... ohhh yeah... *rubs nipples*

Ifly Uwalk
Caldari
Concentrated Evil
Posted - 2009.11.01 16:27:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: xxxThe Doctorxxx
I'm putting together a group of people interested in organising some more law and civility within Empire space.


The Somali Coastguard Authority is proud to bring Traditional Somali Coastguard Services to the citizens of New Eden.

Please message me ingame with a full member list of your corp so we know whom to Guard. Please also tell me the location of your POS(es) so we may base our ships there. We don't necessarily need the password(s), we can just orbit the tower(s).

Although having the password(s) usually makes Guarding a lot easier.

Ifly Uwalk

RasTrent
Private Nuisance
Segregati0n
Posted - 2009.11.01 17:36:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: RasTrent on 01/11/2009 17:36:45
i will second ifly, we are very interested in assisting you in any way possible. i think this is a very noble action for you to take. might i suggest the Lonetrek region be looked at for your main focal point of empire space, there are a few starter systems there where a lot of people tend to pick on new guys who are just trying to make some start up money.

xxxTheDoctorxxx you have the Somali support please contact us in game for anything that we could be of assistance to.

(i am the US Timezone Diplomat so feel free to contact me at any point)

Thanks
RasT

Mytzso
Private Nuisance
Segregati0n
Posted - 2009.11.01 17:57:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: xxxThe Doctorxxx
I'm putting together a group of people interested in organising some more law and civility within Empire space..


Finally someone who possesses courage and chivalry, you are exactly what New Eden needs. Lead us and we will help you in any way we can. Our blasters are at your disposal noble Sir.

Charcul
CMS-17 Initiative
CMS-17 Expanse
Posted - 2009.11.01 22:41:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Aelisha
Good luck, but I can assure you that if I received a mail informing me my home system was under 'civil authority jurisdiction' the reply would likely be a CONCORD mail explaining my views in more polite terms than I would care to, including a 24 hour timer.



This.

Li Fengxian
Gallente
Butterfly Effect Corp.
Posted - 2009.11.01 23:26:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Li Fengxian on 01/11/2009 23:27:21
I can see what you want to accomplish, and while I won't get in I applaud any and all attempts to create more political and institutional developments (Parliaments, Senates, etc) in Empire coming from players.

One day, perhaps Empire will stop being runned by NPCs and be an inamovible part of the background, and instead be thoroughly run by PCs to become dynamic, organic factions.

Saju Somtaaw
Kagan-Kincaid Enterprises
Posted - 2009.11.01 23:41:00 - [47]
 

Time to fire up the production lines to take advantage of all the vic...customers.Twisted Evil

Aurora Nyx
Inglorious-Basterds
Posted - 2009.11.01 23:52:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Aurora Nyx on 01/11/2009 23:52:16
My cats breath smells like cat food.

James Tritanius
Posted - 2009.11.02 19:44:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: James Tritanius on 02/11/2009 20:36:43
I fully support this movement. I shall be the first one to sign up for your glorious endeavor. Please contact me via in game mail.

edit: spelling

Ard UnjiiGo
Meatshield Bastards
Posted - 2009.11.02 20:17:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Ard UnjiiGo on 02/11/2009 20:18:30
I'm in low sec Metro now and need your help urgently!

I'm surrounded and persecuted by pirates on all sides!

There is no Concord here and we need the noble citizens of EVE to exterminate this infestation.

Please help!!


Aphoticus
Posted - 2009.11.02 21:27:00 - [51]
 

Doc,

Send me a mail in game.

I will give you an idea for a foundation that can lead to success in this idea of yours.

tyroney
Posted - 2009.11.02 21:57:00 - [52]
 

Just one thing for the moment:

"without vision, the people perish" - You want to bring... whoever together in order to agree on... stuff and then do... something.

I think the number and general focus of the posts in this thread so far are evidence that you need to reevaluate what you're doing and how you want to do it. Why aren't you starting a corporation or trying to form an alliance? What are you doing?

Vinsurith Morteth
Posted - 2009.11.02 22:15:00 - [53]
 

The OP's idea isn't a horrible one. Citizens can band together to protect eachother. Unfortunately, the game mechanics holds some of it back. But, eve was (atleast I would hope) built to think outside the box. Which means the excuse that "the game mechanics" don't allow a "neighborhood watch" isn't a good excuse. In reality the game mechanics benefit griefers. The only way for true carebears to beat them is to petition the player. Some people look at that like they are snitches or p***ies. CCP could allow a form of sanctioned neighborhood watch. It will be difficult though...one persons idea of civility is another persons oppression.

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2009.11.02 22:32:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Neci Maren
Participating in Government is a social contract. I lay down my rights of anarchy to be protected by you, or your government.

Why should I give up my freedom to live under your rules?

This is exactly the question. And it's a question you have no answer for. Behold:

Originally by: xxxThe Doctorxxx
I've purposely not plotted a specific course because thats what I want the assembly to do. My goal here is to get people on board to just talk, not lend muscle, money or anything other than time and thought. The concept I'm thinking of extends beyond physical security, it would cover things like credit, a helping hand to n00bs, even things like cheap regulated transport of goods.

When governments vote, they vote on yes/no measures. Somebody proposes something, and the representatives vote on that person's idea. They don't hold open-ended, free-form votes to do "whatever you guys want".

Look at the US Declaration of Independence to see what you're doing wrong. That document explicitly states what the purpose of a government is -- to secure certain unalienable rights -- and by what authority a people can reject a government and establish a new one.

Your proposal is in stark contrast. You seek to impose authority (tyranny) on the people of New Eden and you won't even state clearly what you're offering in return. Why should anybody follow you, unless they're a power-worshipping liberal for whom tyranny alone is enticement enough?

The Fighting Republicans vote no.

Vinsurith Morteth
Posted - 2009.11.02 23:04:00 - [55]
 

Quote:
Look at the US Declaration of Independence to see what you're doing wrong. That document explicitly states what the purpose of a government is -- to secure certain unalienable rights -- and by what authority a people can reject a government and establish a new one.

Your proposal is in stark contrast. You seek to impose authority (tyranny) on the people of New Eden and you won't even state clearly what you're offering in return. Why should anybody follow you, unless they're a power-worshipping liberal for whom tyranny alone is enticement enough?

The Fighting Republicans vote no.


Agreed. If you're trying to form an organization to defend against griefers (or whatever) then that's one thing. But, there needs to be some sort of give and take. If you are a "government" then it would need to be decided what powers it holds and what limits keep it in check. You've said there is no true plan yet so I would go back and refine the details first before offering the idea. Something like this would require bylaws and a voting system and an opt-out for corps that aren't interested. There are plenty of corps that could and would use the protection but what will it cost them and what can they offer? What system of government would govern this alliance? Unitary, Federal, Oligarchy...the free-form method would cause problems depending on the scale and numbers of said alliance. This is an interesting predicament. Smile

Neci Maren
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2009.11.03 00:06:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Neci Maren on 03/11/2009 00:12:14
Edited by: Neci Maren on 03/11/2009 00:06:58
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Neci Maren
Participating in Government is a social contract. I lay down my rights of anarchy to be protected by you, or your government.

Why should I give up my freedom to live under your rules?

This is exactly the question. And it's a question you have no answer for. Behold:

Originally by: xxxThe Doctorxxx
I've purposely not plotted a specific course because thats what I want the assembly to do. My goal here is to get people on board to just talk, not lend muscle, money or anything other than time and thought. The concept I'm thinking of extends beyond physical security, it would cover things like credit, a helping hand to n00bs, even things like cheap regulated transport of goods.

When governments vote, they vote on yes/no measures. Somebody proposes something, and the representatives vote on that person's idea. They don't hold open-ended, free-form votes to do "whatever you guys want".

Look at the US Declaration of Independence to see what you're doing wrong. That document explicitly states what the purpose of a government is -- to secure certain unalienable rights -- and by what authority a people can reject a government and establish a new one.

Your proposal is in stark contrast. You seek to impose authority (tyranny) on the people of New Eden and you won't even state clearly what you're offering in return. Why should anybody follow you, unless they're a power-worshipping liberal for whom tyranny alone is enticement enough?

The Fighting Republicans vote no.


You know you were all good til the "power-worshipping liberal for whom tyranny alone is enticement enough?"

American republicans and liberals, at least the rational ones, seem to be on the same side when it comes to tyranny, we just disagree on several aspects of government like "social Democracy" and "civil rights."

If someone decided to suppress the voice of the people, and install them self as Emporer, we'd be side by side to topple such a fool.

It is nice of you to attempt to spread the hate, that's very republican of you :).

Believe me though, if they shut down Fox News or Rush Limbaugh, I would be protesting.

Novantco
The Tuskers
Posted - 2009.11.03 00:38:00 - [57]
 


Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2009.11.03 01:18:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Neci Maren
You know you were all good til the "power-worshipping liberal for whom tyranny alone is enticement enough?"

American republicans and liberals, at least the rational ones, seem to be on the same side when it comes to tyranny, we just disagree on several aspects of government like "social Democracy" and "civil rights."

What is "social democracy" if not the latest jargon term for seizure of wealth and forced dependence on government? Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny. Liberals would gladly sacrifice your civil rights for a benevolent dictator who claims to represent "the people".

Quote:
Believe me though, if they shut down Fox News or Rush Limbaugh, I would be protesting.

Is that all you'd do? Those who aren't willing to fight for their freedom (in game) deserve to lose it (in game).


Pages: 1 [2]

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only