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Makthrraaa
Mando'ad Legion
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.30 15:18:00 - [1]
 

As subject

Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2009.10.30 15:52:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Makthrraaa
As subject


A lot more than a PvE one...

lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2009.10.30 15:55:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Makthrraaa
PVP Kitsune - Much point?


Only if you fit a warp disruptor.

Makthrraaa
Mando'ad Legion
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.30 16:04:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: lollerwaffle
Originally by: Makthrraaa
PVP Kitsune - Much point?


Only if you fit a warp disruptor.


Is that a no? Really. I'd love to bring some ECM to the fleets I work with, but sadly can't fly a Falcon just yet. Is a Kitsune with it?

Laina Delapore
Caldari
Shadowed Command
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2009.10.30 16:13:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Laina Delapore on 30/10/2009 16:14:05
Personally, I'd say that the point thing applies to PVP solo. A Kitsune in a gang can still be as useful as a Falcon / Blackbird / Rook / Scorpion if used correctly, and has much the same vulnerabilities - i.e drones, snipers.

Of course, the Kitsune is a LOT more fragile than all of the above, so the situations you can use it become fewer. Still, I'd not kick one out of my fleet unless I was blessed with an abundance of Ewar. I think the key point you'd want to consider is whether the Kitsune is so much better than the Griffin for the increased costs.

D'oh. I missed the pun there, too. Silly me. Wink


Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2009.10.30 16:23:00 - [6]
 

They were used in the tournament. Even if 'real' pvp doesn't have a points limit on it I'd say they are worth flying.

I absolutely love the Keres and Sentinel, Hyena im trying to love and Kitsune I know can be very effective for a frig. I'm not a fan of ECM so I don't use it but I've been tempted to try solo in a Kitsune.

For a small gang, hell even a large gang they can be quite valuable. Just bear in mind they are also vulnerable.

The only thing I would wonder is how cap stable they are. I wouldn't fly it with anything less than EAS IV.

Since you are likely to get shot at for being an ecm ship, be sure to dcII and shield extend tank it. if you are in a gang let everyone else do the dps, just worry about keeping at range and jamming.

Solo id go blaster/rockets but I wouldn't imagine it's all that viable. Like the other EAS, you can 1v1 in them but only really against specific ships.

If it's anything like the Keres or Sentinel then it's not the most agile of frigs either... kind of like an assault frig.

At any rate its perfect practice for flying a Falcon later.

Suas
Perkone
Posted - 2009.10.30 16:31:00 - [7]
 

Fly a Blackbird. Above poster is dumb.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2009.10.30 16:34:00 - [8]
 

Fly a Kitsune. Above poster is boring.

Makthrraaa
Mando'ad Legion
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.30 16:34:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Suas
Fly a Blackbird. Above poster is dumb.


Succinct... I'll look into how long to train a Blackbird. All practise is good practise right?

Suas
Perkone
Posted - 2009.10.30 16:41:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Suas on 30/10/2009 16:41:52
Originally by: Makthrraaa
Originally by: Suas
Fly a Blackbird. Above poster is dumb.


Succinct... I'll look into how long to train a Blackbird. All practise is good practise right?


They are better in every sense but speed. You get sufficient EHP, the additional mid and it's far cheaper.

If you want to fly ECM ships a Blackbird is right on the path towards what you should be flying anyway (Falcon / Rook). Getting Caldari Cruiser 4 only takes a matter of days as well (just trained it myself for Phantasm).

Alright then
Posted - 2009.10.30 17:07:00 - [11]
 

I used to be all "why fly a kitsune when you can just fly a griffin" kind of caldari pilot until i did something weird in my griffin.

As just a test really I swapped the racial jammers for 3 x multijammers and a sensor damp and instead of warping to my optimal i warped to 0. This way i made sure my targets were closer and easier to jam, but i was also more vulnerable and my cap would'nt last long. But the sensor damp gave me more time (and calm) to jam align out/stay in fight longer. As i started to love this fit in my griffin i realized that the kitsune was actually better for this kind of playstyle. It has shorter lock range (but that doesnt matter when you warp to 0) but more resist and an extra mid slot for either mwd if in 0.0 or point/extra multi jammer and also better cap. So if you dont mind (dying) taking chances get in a kitsune with 3 x multis and sensor damps and warp to 0 its pretty fun.

For fights with more than 5 hostile against you bring a blackbird and just stay away though.

GavinGoodrich
Posted - 2009.10.30 17:29:00 - [12]
 

Kitsune's my fav. tackler.

Yes, it can tackle. Base scanres is in the 500's without skills/RSB.

Not as fast as an inty to lock, but faster than a blackbird.

Fragile as all heck, but it's also the ONLY fast(ish) tackler that can also score jams!

It WILL get instapopped (not even primaried, 1 ship can kill it quick) in a big fleet fight, so blackbird/scorp is better for pure jam support.

Base price is around 20-24 million. How's your budget? Can you afford to go through 40 of these things comfortably?


If you have any intention of FC'ing, don't use this. Speaking from experience as someone who'd get primaried by reputation + in a fragile ship + something that gets called to die first. Horrible choice for an FC.

Kazang
Wrecking Shots
Posted - 2009.10.31 04:36:00 - [13]
 

Kitsune is really nice for roaming with other frigs and its very fun to fly.

But it has a few problems, like the worrying tendency to explode if its sneezed on. It also has a really rubbish locking range for an ECM ship, it gets a ~70km optimal with racials and decent skills but can only lock up to 52km. This means you have to waste a midslot on sebo or engage much closer with can often lead to the aforementioned exploding.

I haven't used one for a long time, not since the ecm nerf actually, but it used to be really nice for anti falcon and generally anti ecm. You can lock and jam hostile ECM ships before they lock you due to your frigate size and sensor strength, this to me is the main role of the kitsune.


But as a basic jammer in a average small gang engagement the blackbird does the job for cheaper.

Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2009.10.31 04:58:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Kazang
I haven't used one for a long time, not since the ecm nerf actually, but it used to be really nice for anti falcon and generally anti ecm. You can lock and jam hostile ECM ships before they lock you due to your frigate size and sensor strength, this to me is the main role of the kitsune.


But as a basic jammer in a average small gang engagement the blackbird does the job for cheaper.

Jamming Battleships prior to ECM nerf with a Kitsune was great. With an AB, they proceeded to use the following 15-20 secs of a missed jam to attempt to lock, by which point another jam was successful.

If you really want to make a target's life hell, a Kitsune-Keres pair can scramble, jam, and sensor damp to make the heaviest of firepower a target unable to do anything until they die (someone call in a wave of Stealth Bombers?).

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2009.10.31 05:20:00 - [15]
 

It can knock any subcapital out of a fight solo unless it's mids are filled with ECCM's. That's pretty good for a frigate. What more do you want? Do you really want a 20M isk ship to be able to disable 3-4 BS's like a falcon can? Would that not be massively overpowered and make the falcon pointless? For that matter, given that a falcon can do that, is the falcon/rook not still overpowered? I wish my pilgrim/curse could disable 3-4 BS's at once, it struggles with just one. Maybe the pilgrim/curse should get 90% disruption with scripted TD's instead of 60%, that would balance it out some.

I'm not whining here, I'm illustrating a point. The point is that you should get what you pay for. ECM is and always has been the most powerful EW in game. The kitsune is the weakest of them but it's still incredibly powerful for a lowly frigate. It has its uses for low SP pilots interested in small gang pvp. Yes the caldari recons are better at it and guess what, they also require a minimum of one additional month of training and they cost 5x as much for just the hull.

Marko Riva
Posted - 2009.10.31 08:30:00 - [16]
 

EAS are toys, fun to fly in a very controlled situation where you get to select the encounter, like a small roaming AF gang looking for single ratters. In any other situation where there's more enemies and you possibly aren't able to control them (they're not slow and short range) then EAS are silly ships and will just make you look stupid on your killboard.

They are NOT cost effective and because their life expectancy can be counted in seconds in case of the Kitsune I'd rather have a BB in my fleets (unless the aforementioned AF gang, but I'd still prefer a Falcon in this case) due to being a tad more beefy with a 1600, even though that means the Kitsune will have more jamming power per module.

Final verdict; don't bother unless you want to go on a drunken "lets have some laughs" roam.

DeputyFruitfly
Posted - 2009.10.31 09:20:00 - [17]
 

Put me down in the "fun as hell to fly" camp.

Lars Lodar
The Python Cartel.
The Jerk Cartel
Posted - 2009.10.31 12:00:00 - [18]
 

The kitsune is a fine ship.

It is rather fragile and expensive so I think it's best at range where you're not really threatened and can stay on the field whereas a tackler/brawler fit is bound to get popped .

Besides speed it also has a higher jam strength than a blackbird, which a lot of people forget. Compared to the griffin, the kitsune has 20% higher jam strenth

[Kitsune, ECM - Range]
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I

BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Umbra' I White Noise ECM
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range

Salvager I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I

Small Ionic Field Projector I
Small Ionic Field Projector I


Since you really shouldn't be in firing range of a ship, it's best to leave the highs for post fight cleanup.

Greg6
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2009.10.31 14:38:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: GavinGoodrich
Kitsune's my fav. tackler.
...
If you have any intention of FC'ing, don't use this. Speaking from experience as someone who'd get primaried by reputation + in a fragile ship + something that gets called to die first. Horrible choice for an FC.


Seconded. FC'ing in an ECM boat is a bad move, I've learned the hard way. :)

ONLYDEADCAN SEE
Posted - 2009.11.01 11:59:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Lars Lodar
The kitsune is a fine ship.

It is rather fragile and expensive so I think it's best at range where you're not really threatened and can stay on the field whereas a tackler/brawler fit is bound to get popped .

Besides speed it also has a higher jam strength than a blackbird, which a lot of people forget. Compared to the griffin, the kitsune has 20% higher jam strenth

[Kitsune, ECM - Range]
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I

BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Umbra' I White Noise ECM
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range

Salvager I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I

Small Ionic Field Projector I
Small Ionic Field Projector I


Since you really shouldn't be in firing range of a ship, it's best to leave the highs for post fight cleanup.


Above setup is useless since there is no MWD.

No MWD = no PVP

Use this instead;

[Kitsune, gang]
Signal Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II

BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Umbra' I White Noise ECM
Phased Monopropellant I Hydrazine Boosters

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I

With my skills ECM optimal 69 km. locking range is 68 km. with above setup.Use whatever you want at highs.

Eli Porter
Posted - 2009.11.01 12:08:00 - [21]
 

Nothing beats a Kitsune for saving a carebear friend in trouble.

Get there fast, jam any single target with ease and tackle it. Possibly a solo ganker's worst nightmare.

That said I would like to see it more viable in gangs, by decreasing EAF sig radius across the board.

Seonnyn
Posted - 2009.11.02 16:52:00 - [22]
 

Our Kitsune pilot Jammed a Scorpian.
Most epic.

Zyress
Posted - 2009.11.02 17:47:00 - [23]
 

They'll never see it coming...
[Caracal, Caracal ECM]
Co-Processor II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
'Hypnos' Multispectral ECM I
ECM - Multispectral Jammer II
ECM - Multispectral Jammer II
ECM - Multispectral Jammer II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
[empty rig slot]

Hobgoblin I x2


 

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