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blankseplocked Crushing Student Debts, Advice?
 
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Arik VanClaw
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
Posted - 2009.10.30 13:39:00 - [1]
 

Hey all, hoping someone can give me some advice. Let's say I have this friend mmkayy.

He went to college out of state and racked up some sizeable student loans. Back home his parents were struggling financially and did some not to smart things by taking out additional student loans in his name to pay for expenses at home. After not to long, said parents went bankrupt and lost their house and the student was unable to finish college and was saddled with over 80k in student loans.

With no skills and no job the loan naturally went into default. Through trying to work with the lendors and collections agencies a deal was made to put these loans into "Modified Graduated" status where only a portion of the interest is paid monthly and the payments increase at intervals until the principle is being paid back as well.

These are private loans and the current balance stands at over 80k and come April payments under the new agreement will be close to $800 a month. Making only 10.00/hr, this friend can hardly support such payments and afford to pay for housing, transportation and food. Due to the previously defaulted status there is no deferrment or forebearance available and interest and penalties are continually tacked on if any payments are missed.

Is there any help for someone in this situation? I've been to this website "Student Loan Justice" and read many stories of students who've had to flee the country, create new identities or even commit suicide just trying to get away from these debts that have spiraled out of control.

There are no similar protections such as bankruptcy or fair credit reporting when it comes to student loans like there is for a home or car loan. These creditors can garnish your wages, your tax returns, take away social security and even disability benefits. It really seems like there's no escape for someone in this position.

Appreciate any advice the Eve community that is knowledgeable in these matters can share. I'd hate for my friend to have to flee the coutnry or live off grid like a criminal just to be able to have a life and not be a slave to a loan institution.

(PS- for the inevitable troll that will say stop playing eve and pay your bills, it really is not me, but a close friend)

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.10.30 13:58:00 - [2]
 

Tell him to sell the parents as slave labour, might pay some of it back. It is after all better than beating them to death as that would have been the option if they had pulled such a stunt on me.

If the parents filed for extra student loans in his name without his consent, can't he have those transferred back to his parents?

Orion Eridanus
Dark Ashes
Posted - 2009.10.30 14:12:00 - [3]
 

Have him talk to the creditors ( in person if possible) to work out a reduction in payments required each month. The cut as many unnecessary expenses as possible ( IE cell Phone, WOW account.) Take any job he can get, 2 if possible one to cover living expenses and the other to pay back the debt, especially if the first can't do both on its own.

I will add more after I return from school.

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2009.10.30 14:13:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 30/10/2009 14:21:34
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 30/10/2009 14:13:51
Shocked

Man I thought I had it bad

Shocked

First off said person went to college and you say they have no skills. There inlies the primary problem.

Second, they need to stop paying to play video games, or any other extracurricular activite they may partake in, and find every second hand job they can in their surrounding area. There is always extra money to be had, one just needs to dig for them.

If one had skills (insert Napolean Dynamite joke here) then one could look for a job that may have some college loan assistance.

Come to think about it, one should check with their local hospitals, they sometimes have loan assistance programs for even janitors and security personel.


But luck good to your friend none the less.


Slade

karma militia
Posted - 2009.10.30 14:21:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: karma militia on 30/10/2009 14:41:25
Edited by: karma militia on 30/10/2009 14:34:50
Edited by: karma militia on 30/10/2009 14:26:40
jesus!

well you might try secretly manipulating whoever your friend owes the money to into bankruptcy, not sure if someone will buy the debt during liquidation though.

or try to find out if there is some limit to the "life" of that particular debt in your country.

as a last resort, look into is creating a strawman. this stuff is very real. a good introduction can be found here.

if you need more information on that subject, let me know and i'll see if i can dig up some reliable information for you. there is plenty of disinformation out there (aka alex jones/infowars).

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2009.10.30 14:39:00 - [6]
 

Your friend sure is deep in the smelly stuff.

First, he should get his parents to help him until the additional student loans are paid. It is, after all, their fault. IF they're unwilling to do it (and, I stress, "unwilling", not "not able to". As in, they have plasma screen, SUV and AC, but don't want to write any of it off), your friend should seriously consider burning bridges and suing them. I intensely dislike lawsuits, far too many frivolous ones, but in this case it would be justified.
At worst, the parents should be able to house and feed your friend for the duration. Won't cost them much, and that would ease his finances.

If your friend have a girlfrined, that's more tricky. She could help, but that would strain the relationship. Your friend might want to avoid that.

I don't know of any administrative way to help your friend in the US, however.



This student loan crisis is something a lot of us interested in economic keep an eye on. Officials keep on lieing about thing going to get better, but student and credit loans have the potential to do even more damage than the subprimes did, imho.

Master Gotama
Posted - 2009.10.30 14:41:00 - [7]
 

I'm a banker and have my own student loans; so I have some experience with these matters in the US. As far as student loans go, there are two real categories; private and goverment secured/subusdized (Sallie Mae). If your friend has private loans, they shouldn't have to worry about those creditors garnishing wages, though they will still try to collect on the debt. Private loans are not protected by a government guarantee and those creditors do not have the same rights as those with a government guarantee.

Any creditor can get a judgement against your defaulted debts, but that takes time and money, and many lenders will not go through all that hassle; its hard to say for $80K in loans tho. That amount might actually make it worth their effort.

I think bankrutpcy is a last resort option, though it may offer some relief. The problem with bk is that you keep the bk history on your credit for 10 years. Also, many loan applications will ask you if you have ever filed for bk, and lying on a loan application is considered fraud.

If your friend has private loans, and I were in their shoes, I'd at least talk to a bk attorney. Imho, its worth a couple of hundred dollars to talk to someone informed on the subject before making decisions that may impact them for years to come.

If your friend actually has goverment backed loans, i'd say to get a job as a bartender or some other profession where the majority of income is on a cash basis. They can still make decent money and not have it all taken from them.

Elora Danzik
Caldari
Idiots In Spaceships
Dead Terrorists
Posted - 2009.10.30 14:51:00 - [8]
 

Wow just wow.

If he didn't authorize the student loans that his parent took, then yeah see suing above.

As to the rest, How much school did he complete? Surely, he has some computer skills like excel and or word. Just becuase you don't have a degree doesn't mean you are completely f'd. I once got a position with the company I was working for at the time just because I had a little stats and knew excel.

There is always away. Hell even starting something online, like selling stuff on ebay could help. It really doesn't cost that much to get a business license and start selling stuff online.

While it might be a little late to start something this year, you could suggest something like http://www.calendarclub.com/ . Though the start up money would be an issue I realize. However, jut throwing it out there.

karma militia
Posted - 2009.10.30 14:55:00 - [9]
 

well yeah if he/she never authorized the loans then they are void. but his/her parents risk prosecution.

think about storing invisible assets, just incase of a worse case scenario.

dr doooo
Posted - 2009.10.30 15:26:00 - [10]
 


Sorry I can't offer any useful help, but that situation sounds unbelievable. I can't believe they can legally take money out of the state benefits of people living bellow the poverty line, with no bankruptcy option etc. That's like state sponsored loan sharking

Paying back at $800 a month, with a wage of $10per/h, leaves him what? $120? $140? a week to survive on for the next 20? 25? years. That is worse than slavery. At least a slave owner had an obligation to feed and house their slaves, but I can't see how it would be possible on that net income.

Since they are young though, and have no significant academic (or professional?) qualifications to lose, why waste time even starting to pay of a life crippling loan like that. Why not just start again under a new name now? AFAIK it's still not that hard to do if you haven't got Interpol or the FBI or someone else along those lines looking for you.



KingsGambit
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.10.30 15:45:00 - [11]
 

When asked about debt, I always respond with how my early 20s were ruined by debt. I overspent on credit cards and brought about 6k of student loans over from finishing my degree. Multiple cards meant spreading payments quite thin and the monthly interest was a killer. Not working for a couple of years right after uni didn't help. But on starting my first and still current FT job, apart from the first month where I went a bit crazy, I started sinking every spare penny into paying it off. Transferring balances all into one place really helped. Psychologically, I saw a difference each month, and financially I was finally paying more of the balance along with the interest.

It took me close on 18 months of this to pay off the credit cards, at which point I cancelled all but one. That was a memorable and immensely satisfying day, especially when they tried to convince me not to! Meanwhile I was paying the student loans back in monthly payments, and saving what before was going on to the cards. Once I had enough saved, I phoned up the loans company and asked them "If I wanted to send in a cheque to totally clear my balance with you, what number would I have to put on it?". I sent it in and to this day have the letter that confirms I owe them nothing. I've since managed to stay debt free and have even built up some healthy savings. I feel for you/your friend, debt is a killer.

A friend of mine here in the UK got into trouble too. I don't know exactly how much but it was way more than he could handle. After struggling for a long time, he phoned up a company that basically got in touch with all his creditors. With each they had approximately the same conversation...our client is struggling financially and cannot handle this much debt. Will you agree to write off part of it if he agrees to pay the rest as best as he is able, under the terms of a contract? The choice they had was to accept this, or have him declare himself bankrupt and they get nothing. All of them took it...a lot of the debt was written off and he has since had to make regular payments at a manageable level. There's regular reviews, and they take part of any bonus income and overtime...basically he's allowed his (provable) living and travel expenses, an agreed amount extra and the rest goes to this company. He'll be debt free within the next year or two.

I would consider having your friend look into something along those lines. Short of declaring bankruptcy, which is a life and soul destroying thing, particularly in your 20s, it will be a horrid life for many years unless he can find an extraordinarily well paid job. He *needs* to speak to either a debt management company if such a thing exists in the US, or his creditors. He needs to tell them he cannot cope with the current situation despite best efforts and something needs to change or he'll have to declare bankruptcy and the creditors will get nothing.

At worst, nothing will change. At best, he will have a large portion of debt written off, and the rest made much more manageable (f.ex 5-6 years at $500 or so with regular reviews to see how much he needs to live on, how much he can afford to pay, etc). Most likely, he will get an arrangement made to curb the interest and at least part of the balance written off. If he has to declare bankruptcy, he'll struggle for the rest of his life to get any credit which will make buying a car or home almost impossible.

So have him look for companies that help people in serious debt in the first instance. Failing that, have him speak to his creditors and to make sure he says he simply cannot manage that level of debt and they need to negotiate something manageable. American students have it pretty bad in regards to debt, I suffered greatly because of mine and it wasn't even remotely close to $80k. My good friend is in her final year of law in Conneticut. Her undergrad studies cost her $40k/yr alone, no idea what the professional school is costing. Shocked

Elora Danzik
Caldari
Idiots In Spaceships
Dead Terrorists
Posted - 2009.10.30 17:10:00 - [12]
 

I wouldn't say that bankrupcy is a soul destroying thing.

When I was in my early 20's I had crappy run for awhile. No schooling, crappy job, little chance of advancement. I had roughtly 10K in student loan and credit card debt.

I ended up getting into an accident with out insurance. However, I didn't realize it had lapsed. Lots of relationshp stuff happened and I lost track of it. Ended up making an arrangement with the insurance company to pay then back the 5k in repair costs.

Things we okay for a bit. Then about 11 months after I hit him. The jackass decides to sue me and the insurance company for a total of 100K. (25k insurance, 75 me) with the request that the insurance company pay anythhing judged against me.

So I could fight it, wait and see, or delcare bankrupcy. Since fighting it would have been as bad as wait and see. I delclared bankrupcy. It was actually a relief. I did get one crappy credit card shortly after that I still have to this day.

The bankrupcy fell off in 2007, and it didn't negatively affect me earily this year when I bought a house.

If the loans are NOT classified as student loans then that may be an option. However, Federal Stafford loans and the Parent version cannot be written off in a bankrupcy.

if he wants to persue that option he should talk with a lawyer. They will usually consult for the first visit for free so at least he would have the information as to the feesability of it.

Arik VanClaw
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
Posted - 2009.10.30 18:05:00 - [13]
 

Thank you all for your responses.

Suing/Prosecuting the parents is one potential option but that is a very hard thing for this person to do as they are very close. His parents would help if they could but have no resources. The bankruptcy lead to a divorce and now the mother lives in low rent govt. assisted housing for seniors and the father lives with his parents. The bankruptcy allowed the IRS to garnish the fathers wages to pay off debts and neither parent has much disposable income to spare as they both have very low paying jobs (think less thank 30k per year).

These are federally backed loans so I don't think bankruptcy is an option for him (think Stafford or Parent loans). He has called the agency that holds the loan but the only negotiation they would agree to was the "modified graduated" status mentioned above that by April pushes his payments outside of a sustainable range. Subsequent calls to renegotiate have met with refusal to change anything about the current arrangement.

I'm really thinking he needs to speak to an attorney of some kind that can arrange a more manageable payment plan, maybe even have some of the debt dismissed or reduced in return for regular payments. Would your standard bankruptcy attorney be the kind of lawyer to talk to about something like this?

I think the main thing is just finding some way to make the payments more manageable, i.e. $300 a month or something for the next 20 years. Not $300 a month for the rest of his life b/c that will only ever cover interest or $800 monthly this year and then it keeps going up so it's paid off soon but you can never afford to pay it anyway so it defaults and you're back at square one.

Also, concerning the garnishment etc.. see below on what they can do to you for not paying back student loans:

The Higher Education Technical Amendments of 1991 (HEA) eliminated all statutes of limitations for any collection action by a school, guaranty agency, or the United States under a federal loan program. The amendments also eliminated all limitation periods for tax intercepts, wage garnishments, and other collection efforts.
If you're not able to discharge your student loans in bankruptcy or establish a repayment plan in a Chapter 13 proceeding, the federal Department of Education has the right to:

Tack collection fees of 25% and collection agency "commission" fees of approximately 28% onto the principal, interest and penalties you already owe

Take your federal income tax refund until all your defaulted student loans have been paid
Garnish up to 15 percent of your wages, without suing you first

Take as much as $750 per month (up to 15 percent of your income) in federal benefits to which you might be entitled, including social security retirement and social security disability income, and apply that amount toward your outstanding defaulted student loan debt

Sue you for your outstanding student loan debt and place liens on your property

Drunk Driver
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.10.30 18:13:00 - [14]
 


Declare bankruptcy.

Start over with no debt.


Elora Danzik
Caldari
Idiots In Spaceships
Dead Terrorists
Posted - 2009.10.30 19:00:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Elora Danzik on 30/10/2009 19:00:26
a bankrupcy attorney could help.

Chapter 7 bankrupcy is where they just wipe it off the books.

Chapter 13 is where the restructure the debt.

I don't know the specifics becuase I went through 7 but it would be worth talking to one to at least find out. At this point though it seems that he almost has to get some kind of attorney involved because it seems no one it listening to him.

granted he will still have to pay the attorney, but a good one will be understanding of the situation and let him make payments. The bankrupcy attorney I used had a flat fee for Chapter 7 plus retainer fee.+


edit: dman selplnig.

Florio
Miniature Giant Space Hamsters
Posted - 2009.10.30 19:15:00 - [16]
 

So it looks like your friend and his parents have 6 years of hard graft to pay for their collective utter stupidity, although the bulk of the fault lies with the idiot parents. Go bankrupt, or suck it up and pull together as a family to nuke it.

Look, it's really frakkin' simple. Life is too short to frack around. Spend and live a lifestyle below your means and save up a year's worth of expenditure in cash, setting aside some money for retirement as early as possible. Once you've got one year's cash you can start investing in riskier stuff. Use credit cards, but pay them off in full by direct debit every month. Simple.

Vonlutt
Amarr
Posted - 2009.10.31 00:48:00 - [17]
 

Join the military, seriously.

Intense Thinker
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.31 01:09:00 - [18]
 

He could always ***** himself out to 80 fat chicks for $1000.

Hey, fat chicks need loving too












Only they gotta pay for it

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2009.10.31 01:20:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Intense Thinker
He could always ***** himself out to 80 fat chicks for $1000.

Hey, fat chicks need loving too












Only they gotta pay for it



He'll be paying for it too.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2009.10.31 01:23:00 - [20]
 

This is funny.

Got sold on the college thing, and in the end you paid for at least 4 years of your own indoctrination to ideals you would have never been drawn to in the first place, to get a little piece of paper that says you know something, so you can sit in a cubicle just like everybody else who got suckered.




Academic Dishonesty
MIT calls Academia's Bluff
job Market and the racket

The college con


Degree does not automatically equal prosperity


College degree is a bad idea


And on and one.

Recently Gerald Celente told an assembly of grads that they will have to be "unique" to survive in the coming economy. This means it's not automatic... "oh, you have a degree.... well... here's your job then".

Nope.

So you got suckered. Don't feel bad not paying them back. This will drive the cost of tuition down, and make those fields that require college (engineering, sciences, etc) more attainable for the non-suckers.

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2009.10.31 01:25:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
So you got suckered. Don't feel bad not paying them back. This will drive the cost of tuition down, and make those fields that require college (engineering, sciences, etc) more attainable for the non-suckers.
And meanwhile you couldn't even read the thread properly. Who got the worst deal? I'd say you.

Orion Eridanus
Dark Ashes
Posted - 2009.10.31 02:39:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Vonlutt
Join the military, seriously.


They won't take him with that much debt

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.10.31 05:07:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Elora Danzik
Edited by: Elora Danzik on 30/10/2009 19:00:26
a bankrupcy attorney could help.

Chapter 7 bankrupcy is where they just wipe it off the books.

Chapter 13 is where the restructure the debt.

I don't know the specifics becuase I went through 7 but it would be worth talking to one to at least find out. At this point though it seems that he almost has to get some kind of attorney involved because it seems no one it listening to him.

granted he will still have to pay the attorney, but a good one will be understanding of the situation and let him make payments. The bankrupcy attorney I used had a flat fee for Chapter 7 plus retainer fee.+


edit: dman selplnig.


I have been told student loans can somehow get around bankruptcy and stay with you.

bit ironic with all that invest in our children's future and go to college crap that gets thrown around.

The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2009.10.31 05:58:00 - [24]
 

1) Don't freak out ... the world's in a recession ... you aren't the only one in this position .... Don't default on your loan .. it will haunt you the rest of your life

2) File for a deferment for unemployment or such ... you should get up to a year

3) negotiate your payment ... give them your story .. you'd be surprised on how they will work with you (better some money than none at all)

4) Defer you loan by going to school ... ie ... go to a community college ... as long as you're taking classes they will not call in your loan ... believe it or not ... it may be cheaper just to stay in school Shocked

Just some friendly advice ... a 'friend' of mine has gone through this Wink


MightyRhinox
Minmatar
Rhinox Heavy Industries
Twilight Military Industrial Complex Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.31 08:04:00 - [25]
 

F*ck the c*nts, leave the country.

Nebulous
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.10.31 11:32:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Nebulous on 31/10/2009 12:01:08
(this is based on UK law) The key to debt/loan problems is to never under any circumstance pay them back, this purely because they never borrowed you the money in the first place, effectively when you are given a loan it is a "SCAM", they basically give you your own money in advance (banks have got no money, for it is money made from debt, infact all money is debt).

Banks: They take deposits. These are held in trust for the depositor. They must, by law, always be prepared to return any and all deposits back to depositors on demand. That's the LAW. They would not be able to do that if they were ever to lend out any money on deposit to anyone requesting a loan. They cannot, therefore, lend or invest anything entrusted to them. So the question is: Where do they get the money from, in order to loan it to you?


Ultimately when you stop paying back a loan the bank will pass it onto a "collection agency", this actually works in your favour, these people under no circumstance can ever take anything from you, even if they use bayliffs they can not force their way into your house, if they turn up with the police then the police are only there to see that a breach of the peace is not committed. (lastly a lot of people watch to many films and think that collection agencies send thugs to your house to beat you up, this is not true, this only happens if you borrow from a loan shark).

Before any attempt to physically collect on a debt you will first recieve letters from the collection agency threatening to take you to court, the first mistake they make is by sending you a letter to your "legal fiction" name, this is noticable by when they put your name in block capital letters, if you wish you can put "return to sender, no legal fictions at this address", if you chose to reply to the letter you need to do the following, posted on the next post.


Nebulous
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.10.31 11:43:00 - [27]
 

To:


Dear Sirs,

Please read the following notice thoroughly and carefully before responding. It is a notice. It informs you. It means what it says.

I refer to your letter dated .

As you are a third party intervener in this matter acting without authority, I DO NOT give you permission to interfere in my commercial affairs as you have no legal standing. I do not have a contract with you and any permission that you believe you may have from me is hereby withdrawn. If you believe that you have power of attorney to act on my behalf you are hereby fired, and any consent that you believe you may have, tacit or otherwise, is hereby withdrawn.
I am familiar with the terms of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. And I believe, should you continue in contacting me after my request for you to cease your activity, that you will be guilty of harassment and blackmail, and you will be in breach of these acts, and you will be reported to the relevant bodies.

I am well aware of Section 40, sub-section (3) which you may consider entitles you to proceed. However upon full commercial liability and penalty of perjury you will need to supply the following Proofs of Claims:

1. Proof of Claim that your actions are reasonable.

2. Proof of Claim that any obligation on my part is due, or believed by you to be due to you, and not to some other party.

3a. Proof of Claim that any obligation on my part is to yourself by providing sight of the appropriate contract, or

3b. Proof of Claim that any obligation on my part to persons for whom you act by providing sight of the appropriate contract.

4. Proof of Claim that any obligation on my part protects you from any future loss.

5. Proof of Claim that any obligation on my part is enforcement of a legal process on a Human Being under Common Law jurisdiction, who cannot possibly have such liability under said jurisdiction.

You would of course need to provide these Proofs, including showing the full and audited accounting, if you chose to go to law.

Please also note that if you contact me by telephone, after a formal request not to, you will also be in breach of the Wireless Telegraphy Act (1949) and, as such, I will report you to both Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading. And take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

Finally, you do not, nor have you ever had, my permission to use or process my personal data in any way, and so pursuant to the Data Protection Act 1998, I hereby demand that you cease use of any and all data with regard to me, and that you immediately destroy all of my data held on your records. Failure to do so will result in a report being submitted to The Information Commissioner for Data Protection breaches.

You will be deemed to have been served notice of my request and I will deem it served three (3) days from the date of this letter. This has been sent by recorded delivery. I am advising you that any communications from you including but not limited to letters, phone calls and text messages received after this date will be recorded/noted with the intention of them being used as evidence.

Do not contact me again.

Sincerely and without ill will, vexation or frivolity,


Lastly never put your name down as they do, if your name is joe bloggs then do not put "yours sincerely Joe Bloggs", you should describe yourself as "Joe" of the family "Bloggs", therefore you are not adressing yourself as a legal fiction, if anyone ever adresses you as such, even in court you should ignore them, you can not be held for contempt because you are not a legal fiction, you should be adressed as "joe", as that is what you are commonly known as (common law).


-----------------------

Nebulous
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.10.31 11:51:00 - [28]
 

Lastly before you try to take anyone on like how I have described above you need to read up on what the law "really" is and how you need to handle yourself if you end up in court, you can have almost any request for money from yourself thrown out in a matter of minutes if you know what to say, (unless you owe the government money, i.e. taxes etc, that is completely different and does not apply here).



------------------------------------------------

Kravick Drasani
Posted - 2009.10.31 19:20:00 - [29]
 

Couple of things that have been said in this thread need to be repeated.

First, this person is an American. American laws etc. I know you're trying to help but posting laws from UK or other parts of the world don't help any in this situation. We could only be so lucky if we had your laws.

Second, Ronald Reagan legalized loan sharking during his reign as president. The Sallie Mae Corporation (largest student loan company in the US) is loan sharking given corporate form. Instead of thugs sent to your door its wage garnishment and property seizures. You cannot under any circumstance declare bankruptcy to get out of your student loans. You can attempt to consolidate them, negotiate lower payment options, etc. but thats entirely on the whims of the company that holds your debt. These companies can sell your debt to other companies (and we have to pay it unlike the in the UK) without our consent. When a new company gets a hold of your debt they can restructure it any way they like and will most likely throw out the old agreement you had with the previous company. On a similar some what related topic, the same thing now applies to medical bills (thanks Bush). No, we are not kidding when we say that these corporations/banks can and do these things to us if they are student or medical related. They don't care that its physically impossible to pay these loans off and still have enough money to live. That is not their problem. They just want what you owe and will try to force you to pay it back any way possible.

A fellow co-worker of mine used to work at a collection agency. His job was to call people and harass them into making their payments. He got fired because he wasn't enough of a **** to people on the phone.

Third, higher education really is a lie. At least in the United States where our higher paying jobs which require degrees are being shipped off to China/India. To be honest, you're better off being a construction worker working for the state repaving roads than going into debt and not being able to find a job that you went to school for. This is a growing problem in this country. People are going to school, getting their degrees, and then not being able to find jobs relating to those degrees and having to work at low paying jobs as a result. They would have been better off just not going to school in the first place. Yes, its ****ing backwards and this isn't right but its what is happening. We still need electrical engineers and what not but those jobs are few and far between. In fact about the only thing we have an abundant need for are accountants. I don't know about you but I'm terrible with numbers and spread sheets give me a headache.

I don't like this situation and I myself but thats reality in America. Most people want to bury their heads in the sand and refuse to listen. They think just because they get a degree they're guaranteed work in that field. Not so, and the job market is slowly shrinking here and not due to recession. It was shrinking long before the recession took place.

Nebulous
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.10.31 20:04:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Kravick Drasani
Stuff


Hello Kravick, yes you are right, it would be wrong to take advice if you are in the USA based on UK law, I did highlight that however.

I of course can not be 100% correct but I believe the foundations of borrowing/contracts are the same in most western country's, to owe someone money you need to have a contract between two "people", corporations can't sign because they have no Right, or Mind, to contract, because they are soulless legal fictions (this is why they address you as a legal fiction also, to try and justify what they are doing), this is purely in the instance of the loan provider, a collection agency has got even less rights, because nothing at all was signed between you and the collection agency "EVER", it wasnt even signed at your end.

Secondly if you are in the USA i'm sure you have laws against being harrassed, if someone continues to call/e-mail/mail you after a demand not to, then they are harrassing you and can be reported for doing so.

Lastly I read somewhere not long ago that an american managed to keep his house without having to pay anymore of his mortgage off, he basically just higlighted in court the fact that the bank had not borrowed him the money, for they never legally had the money to borrow him in the first place.

At the end of the day the OP just needs to spend some serious time looking into his rights and the law, do not contact a lawyer however for they will lie to you, if most people knew the way the law works then these scumbags wouldnt have a job, they make a living from the ills of society... enough said really.


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