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Devoider
Posted - 2009.10.29 11:33:00 - [1]
 

Every setup i seem to make for a t1 gal frig always ends up being crushed by a standard cookie cutter rifter setup.

Is there something i am missing or do gallente frigs just completely suck? Ive tried 400mm plate tristans - dual rep tristans, gank incursus, plate incursus...

Blasters and rails are so situational - for instance my 400 plate tristan with electrons and rockets lost to an incursus because he kited me and by the time i had switched to null he had made up the hp difference and it was a very close fight. (i still lost). next fight i used null by default and he got under my tracking and i died whilst he was still in armor - the 3rd fight i fit rails and he almost died but managed to get away. every incurusus i have had has always lost a rifter.

help meh please

Susy Assulu
Caldari
Atomic Mexicans
Posted - 2009.10.29 11:54:00 - [2]
 

Post your fit for the incursus, the rifter is a tough opponent when flown well though :)

Spectre3353
Gallente
Heavy Risk...
Posted - 2009.10.29 14:40:00 - [3]
 

I don't think the problem is so much the Gallente line of frigates sucking as it is the Rifter simply being the best T1 frigate by far. Good range, good tracking, great slot layout/cpu/grid, great speed and an awesome ship model. On top of that, there are so many effective and viable ways to fit a Rifter that you never really know what you're going to get when you engage one. My advice is this:

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em (train for a Rifter).

Ry Vern
Posted - 2009.10.30 18:43:00 - [4]
 

ive killed many rifters in an incursus b4......ppl tend to focus on ship fittings too much and not much on piloting the ship which is also a major factor on deciding who wins.......im not gonna into details of what you do and how to fit your ship cuz frankly i dont want ppl to improve on their pvp so i can have more easy targets :)

Spectre3353
Gallente
Heavy Risk...
Posted - 2009.10.30 19:20:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Ry Vern
ive killed many rifters in an incursus b4......ppl tend to focus on ship fittings too much and not much on piloting the ship which is also a major factor on deciding who wins.......im not gonna into details of what you do and how to fit your ship cuz frankly i dont want ppl to improve on their pvp so i can have more easy targets :)


I've killed many Rifters before as well using an Incursus and a Taranis but it doesn't change the fact that the Rifter is a far superior ship. Any remotely smart or well fit Rifter will be able to smoke most any Gallente blaster frigate, even some of the T2 ones (ie: Enyo, Taranis).

rodensteiner
Amarr
OMGROFLSTOMP
Posted - 2009.10.30 20:28:00 - [6]
 

I think the biggest advantage the Incursus would have is DPS. That is the only way I can see you beating a Rifter, to be honest.

If you neut him, the Autocannons will keep firing.

If you try to stay at range, he'll load barrage, plus he's probably faster.

If you try to stay at even greater range and use rails, he'll probably catch you (because he's faster) and I don't think rails do much damage, plus I'm guessing rails don't have the best tracking.

I'd probably fit the biggest blasters possible, fit for maxiumum gank, and go in guns blazing. Get as close to him as possible, overload guns from the onset, and hope he dies before you do.

Cunane
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.30 23:24:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: rodensteiner
I'd probably fit the biggest blasters possible, fit for maxiumum gank, and go in guns blazing. Get as close to him as possible, overload guns from the onset, and hope he dies before you do.


That right there is why I love Gallente. Seriously though Rifters are just so good at what they do, and you never know what your going to get so it's always an uphill struggle.

Alura Vern
Posted - 2009.10.31 12:29:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Spectre3353
Originally by: Ry Vern
ive killed many rifters in an incursus b4......ppl tend to focus on ship fittings too much and not much on piloting the ship which is also a major factor on deciding who wins.......im not gonna into details of what you do and how to fit your ship cuz frankly i dont want ppl to improve on their pvp so i can have more easy targets :)


I've killed many Rifters before as well using an Incursus and a Taranis but it doesn't change the fact that the Rifter is a far superior ship. Any remotely smart or well fit Rifter will be able to smoke most any Gallente blaster frigate, even some of the T2 ones (ie: Enyo, Taranis).


The point is was trying to make is dont get hung up on what is the superior ship type because there is alot more factors that influence the outcome of a battle

DARTHxFREE
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.10.31 16:10:00 - [9]
 

His/Her skills are better then yours.

Conclusion:
no standard solution

Benny Has
Posted - 2009.10.31 17:08:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Benny Has on 31/10/2009 17:10:16
Don't know why so many people keep bringing up the incursus.
No way a properly fit rifter with half a brain loses to an incursus.

You should be looking at the tristan not the incursus.
It compares much better to the rifter because it is actually on the same meta level.

But then you gotta train rockets Confused

Jarik Utoni
Minmatar
Valhalla Industries
Posted - 2009.10.31 17:29:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Devoider
Every setup i seem to make for a t1 gal frig always ends up being crushed by a standard cookie cutter rifter setup.


everything looses to a rifter, don't feel bad rifters are just too awsome

Pepper Candy
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.10.31 23:23:00 - [12]
 

http://redfed.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=4803676

http://redfed.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=4803677

http://redfed.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=4803678

how the hell does this person do that!

all of those fights were arranged 1v1s!

i need to get his fit -)

so far i see ions and warriors meaning no plate?

Marko Riva
Posted - 2009.11.01 05:52:00 - [13]
 

incursus > rifter

Fit a plate, scram, web and get close. Not many people are able to truly 'dogfight' and time it well enough to stay at 7km or something. If they can then they deserve to win, most can't so most of the time you'll crush them.

The ship is fine, you just need to get used to properly piloting frigates (there's more to it than hitting the approach or orbit buttons). If he kites you outside webbing range (...) that means you can do a 180 and either get away or force him to hit approach to keep you pointed after which you turn around again and grab him.

In short; point and you lose, scram and you win.



Lego Maniac
Posted - 2009.11.01 06:37:00 - [14]
 

[Incursus, frig duels]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I

Light Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]


Hobgoblin II x1

note: requires a +1% or higher cpu implant

get in their face and sock it to 'em

Marko Riva
Posted - 2009.11.01 06:50:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Lego Maniac
[Incursus, frig duels]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I

Light Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]


Hobgoblin II x1

note: requires a +1% or higher cpu implant

get in their face and sock it to 'em


no web = no range control = killed by capable rifter pilot.

Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.11.01 12:13:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Lego Maniac
[Incursus, frig duels]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I

Light Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]


Hobgoblin II x1

note: requires a +1% or higher cpu implant

get in their face and sock it to 'em


Needs rigs too, obviously.

Izzybella
Posted - 2009.11.01 14:41:00 - [17]
 

Here is the setup for the incursus that i use. I beaten plenty of rifters with it.

[Incursus, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Small Armor Repairer II

Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator

Light Ion Blaster II, Null S
Light Ion Blaster II, Null S
Light Ion Blaster II, Null S

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

Hobgoblin II x1

Also i find that the tristan is a good combat frig and i set it up like this:

[Tristan, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Small Armor Repairer II
Adaptive Nano Plating II

J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters

Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]


Hobgoblin II x1

Beaten a few rifters with this as well

Marko Riva
Posted - 2009.11.01 14:51:00 - [18]
 

[Incursus, solo]
Damage Control II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

1MN MicroWarpdrive II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator

Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
[empty rig slot]


Warrior II x1





Switch to null when applicable.

Pepper Candy
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.11.01 15:41:00 - [19]
 

marko that is pretty much the setup i run but with an AB instead of mwd. having an mwd and aiming to fight in scram range is effectively the same as not having a web - anything with an ab and full tackle is gonna kite you easily.

Pepper Candy
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.11.01 15:46:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Marko Riva
[Incursus, solo]
Damage Control II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

1MN MicroWarpdrive II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator

Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
[empty rig slot]


Warrior II x1





Switch to null when applicable.



using an ab instead of an MWD.

i believe this setup is superior:

[Incursus, RvB]
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II

X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters

Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Hybrid Ambit Extension I


Hobgoblin II x1

it has slightly less dps but longer range and slightly worse tracking.

Emperor Ryan
Amarr
The Illuminatii
Mildly Intoxicated
Posted - 2009.11.01 21:11:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Spectre3353
I don't think the problem is so much the Gallente line of frigates sucking as it is the Rifter simply being the best T1 frigate by far. Good range, good tracking, great slot layout/cpu/grid, great speed and an awesome ship model. On top of that, there are so many effective and viable ways to fit a Rifter that you never really know what you're going to get when you engage one. My advice is this:

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em (train for a Rifter).



Punisher with Ac's Beats a Rifter Hands down, Only way Rifter MIGHT win is if it stays at about 9km range, in which case use ambit rigs on the Punisher with Barrage and you will always win

General Coochie
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2009.11.02 02:32:00 - [22]
 

had many rifter and taranis kills in this ship. But as been said rifters are so damn versatile and some pilots will have good enough skill to give you hell. But it works fairly well.

125mm coil guns * 3
x5 web. j5 scram, cold gas AB
200mm plate, DC II

stay at like 6-7km, keep transversal low. AB rifters with web and scram are gonna be tough obviously. Hopefully they start the fight at range thinking they can kite your blasters meaning you have the advantage. They can disengage which sucks, but not all do as most fights are pretty close. It wont win you all fights, but it will win you fights. I found the 400mm plated rifters to be the nastiest. I can often disengage from the fight, most ppl in rifters doesnt seem to be able to keep u in range properly.

Did I say its dirt cheap?

Kazang
Wrecking Shots
Posted - 2009.11.02 07:18:00 - [23]
 

The trick to gallente frigates is to never ever use electrons.
They are just terrible.

There are a myriad of great fits for the incursus and tristan so I'm not gonna go into individual fits but general rules are just to play to the ships strengths, like incursus's falloff bonus so use guns that get decent falloff (ie not electrons) and use it against ships that don't have that advantage.


Tristans can beat rifters pretty easily if you play it right its just matter skills and counter fitting.

Seralder
Posted - 2009.11.02 12:24:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Seralder on 02/11/2009 12:27:26
Edited by: Seralder on 02/11/2009 12:25:50
Edited by: Seralder on 02/11/2009 12:25:28

[Armor-Tristan for heavy support, My Setup in a Gang]

Damage Control II
200mm thungsten
Adaptive Nano Plating II

X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
1MN AB
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

[Armor Rig]
[Armor Rig]
[Armor Rig]


[Solo-Tristan, gonna kill u]
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Small Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II

Warp Scrambler II
1MN Afterburner II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200

Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
OE-5200 Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket
OE-5200 Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Nanobot Accelerator I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I

tristan is a heavy frigate, not a speed frig :)

Wacktopia
Sicarius.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2009.11.02 13:09:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Wacktopia on 02/11/2009 13:12:07
Yeah, that's a toughy. The 'problem' is this: Gallente do slightly more damage and are slightly slower. At frigate level this does not work out well since speed and agility play a massive role.

The cookie-cutter Rifter setup appears to do 76dps whereas the Incursus can muster 111dps. So, if you can somehow overcome the Rifter's speed advantage then you win on paper.

The only idea I could come up with would be to fit speed rigs (Aux Thrusters) and hope the Rifter pilot didn't rig or chose other ones. Not a great solution but an idea.

DARTHxFREE
Aliastra
Posted - 2009.11.02 13:25:00 - [26]
 

Tristan can tank 90-111dps and for me put out 135dps.
Most of the time this should be enuf tank to keep a hostile T1 frig at bay, only problem I had was a shield tanked Rifter on a 4km orbit, I didn't have null ammo, so had to rellie on 1x drone and at the time, poor rocket skills, he fled when he lost his shield.

Navy Cap Booster 400 might be hard to get a hold of.

[Tristan, Dual Rep]
Small Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Small Armor Repairer II

1MN Afterburner II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Warp Scrambler II

Light Electron Blaster II, CN Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, CN Antimatter Charge S
Rocket Launcher II, CN Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, CN Gremlin Rocket

Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hobgoblin II x1

SuperNova221
J5 Industries
Posted - 2009.11.02 14:04:00 - [27]
 

Single rep Tristan with good skills can beat a Rifter.

Not easily however, Rifter's are very good ships, you need a good setup, skills and piloting to win with a Tristan.


Shevar
Minmatar
Target Practice incorporated
Posted - 2009.11.02 21:07:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Devoider
Every setup i seem to make for a t1 gal frig always ends up being crushed by a standard cookie cutter rifter setup.

Is there something i am missing or do gallente frigs just completely suck? Ive tried 400mm plate tristans - dual rep tristans, gank incursus, plate incursus...

Blasters and rails are so situational - for instance my 400 plate tristan with electrons and rockets lost to an incursus because he kited me and by the time i had switched to null he had made up the hp difference and it was a very close fight. (i still lost). next fight i used null by default and he got under my tracking and i died whilst he was still in armor - the 3rd fight i fit rails and he almost died but managed to get away. every incurusus i have had has always lost a rifter.

help meh please


There are 2 good dueling t1 frigs the punisher and the rifter.

Live with it.

Smabs
Posted - 2009.11.02 23:15:00 - [29]
 

Quote:
There are 2 good dueling t1 frigs the punisher and the rifter.



No. You'll find that the Merlin, Tristan and Incursus are all capable of beating a rifter or punisher depending on the fits. The problem is that the merlin and tristan both have split weapon systems and tight fitting, so they need more SP to work well. I'm not so sure about an incursus but I've heard of people being pretty successful in those, too.

Anyway, a rifter is definitely more newbie friendly and easier to train for. And it's a short bit of training up to a thrasher from there.

As for being kited or orbited really close.. well, if you've got a web the rifter won't be 'that' much faster and so you can manual pilot to reduce transversal or manage heat to overload the ab and close range (if you have overheating).

MightyRhinox
Minmatar
Rhinox Heavy Industries
Twilight Military Industrial Complex Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.03 10:10:00 - [30]
 

I've found a speed and agility rigged incursus works well against rifters.

That said, I suck and base my conclusions on how long it takes me to die rather that whether I win or not.

Outside of that, sounds like he's just a better pilot and fitting won't help much, go fight more, pay attention to what your opponent is doing and learn.


 

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