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Mendolus
Gallente
Aurelius Federation
Eternal Evocations
Posted - 2009.10.29 04:22:00 - [121]
 

See this is how it is. In most MMOs if the game client is hacked, and people suffer from it, there is this huge uproar and denouncement from the general public. But in EVE, an alarming amount of people seem to buy into the sandbox almost to the point of absurdity. It is like living next to an active volcano that erupts and you are laughing as the pyroclastic wave kills your neighbors. You are seconds away from the same death and yet you are laughing because for whatever reason, you are stark-raving mad.

Anyone who invests in any alliance should feel the obvious disparity here between what happens as the result of game mechanics as opposed to hacking the game client. However, it seems convenient to play the apathy card so long as you seem reasonably certain that it could never happen to the social group YOU have invested time in. Who are you going to have to blame when it DOES happen to you? No one but yourself.

IMO this turn of events has actually shown just how much underlying respect the EVE gaming community actually does have for CVA with their overwhelming response in the game itself, is a loud and almost audible denunciation of any outside source affecting the game client in a way that breaks the EULA. We want to play a game here, not have the game hacked and destroyed, no? You gonna pay $15/account for a game that gets hacked repetitively or encourage and promote the universal notion that we are seeing in the game itself, that hacking the game client is wrong? CVA just like every other sovereign power bloc has just as much right to play this game within the scope of the EULA as everyone else. Without that right, it is no longer a game, but a virtual dump where there are no tangible or consistent merits to any large group endeavor as it will simply be nullified by criminal action.

I for one, would rather play a game where the real enemy is within the game, not outside, even if it is spying or subterfuge, it is within the scope of the game environment. This is supposed to be a place where the real crimes of the world cannot touch us, why would anyone revel in a criminal breaching that trust is beyond me, other than the notion that they have a lack of comprehension and awareness of the ramifications of universalizing such notions. If it were a CVA director's credit card account that were hacked, would people be cheering just as much I wonder? If it were a flaw in the security of the game client and YOUR credit card account was equally at risk, would you be laughing it up? If it were your game account at constant risk, if you buy GTCs with ISK, would you be laughing it up? If you had to logon every day wondering if the loophole you had no control over in the game client would let some tool hijack YOUR account, would you play this game? Anyone who says yes, is arguing the absurd. Or clinically insane.

Agent Known
Caldari
Night Theifs
Apotheosis of Virtue
Posted - 2009.10.29 04:29:00 - [122]
 

Very nice post Mendolus...hopefully some people will listen.

MidnightWyvern
Caldari
Night Theifs
Posted - 2009.10.29 04:33:00 - [123]
 

And thus you fade into obscurity as the ones who tried and failed to destroy something thousands of us have worked damn hard to create. And all over a personal grudge. Seriously, go be emo somewhere else.

Nomnom Cookie
Caldari
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2009.10.29 04:39:00 - [124]
 

Some seriously excellent drama if true but Vegas odds are currently "Pick a number" to 1 against.

Brenner Abes
Caldari
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2009.10.29 04:40:00 - [125]
 

We love you, CVA.

Falgoria
Amarr
Night Theifs
Apotheosis of Virtue
Posted - 2009.10.29 04:44:00 - [126]
 

Confirming I am jumping on the -AoV- train, What what what!

Abortion Engine
Amarr
GoonFleet
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2009.10.29 05:49:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Mendolus
:words:

People outside another persons social group barely register as human, and thus nobody gives a ****.

Bo'Tox
Amarr
Russian Military Technology
SOLAR WING
Posted - 2009.10.29 06:19:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Shad0wsFury

I have been on both ends of fighting with CVA and against. I have gone through GREAT LENGTHS to make amends for my corp to get us removed from the KOS list (after being pirated multiple times by both CVA themselves and their pets), only to be once again added to their KOS list without warning or reason some time later.

CVA's "policies" are a sham. I'm pretty sure the REAL reason that we were KOS'd is because many of our members have a history with Transwarp Ventures (a CVA pet that engages in active piracy themselves...), and while we had done nothing to them RECENTLY, they managed to whine enough to CVA to have us put back on the list.




I agree.
I had a Very Small question about their policies and reimbursement and was told to GTFO.
If they couldnt be civil and handle a small case of several million isk, then how would they treat ppl with dreads and titans trying to defend CVA space, etc.... and wanting reimbursement?

CVA? Cant say I am sorry to see them go....

Aethrwolf
Caldari
Podrratu
Posted - 2009.10.29 06:23:00 - [129]
 

interesting.. while I have no personal animus toward CVA there are a few things to consider.

1. If the account was hacked the investigation needs to happen in its own time. Meaning that it should not be investigated with priority over the hacked account petitions already in the system. Any favoritism in this matter hearkens back to certain scandals in the past involving BoB.

2. If the account wasn't hacked but someone gained access through an EULA violation such as account sharing, then CVA should NOT be restored since they would have been abetting EULA violations at the highest levels. When you hold yourself as an example to others, you must be willing to make an example of yourself.

3. If this was an emorage action, then we already have an example of how things will go down.

on related notes:

Regardless of the investigation's outcome this could shatter CVA through loss of confidence to its members, the chaos caused by opportunistic players, and the lack of sov that nothing but time will likely cure, meaning they may very well miss out on free sov related upgrades when Dominion hits. Can anyone answer this question.. CAN CCP restore CVA to what it was/had before without taking away things that players so far unaffected have gained in the meantime? (restoring single accounts is one thing, but a whole alliance?

Good luck regardless.. its a broken mechanic and it should be changed.

Here's my selfish line.. This had better not be "fixed" via an extended dt just to restore this if its going to be restored. I'll cry foul and favoritism if it does and I'm sure I wont be alone.

Psilocin
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.10.29 06:25:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Isilwen Nightfall
Originally by: Ranger 1

Actually, the point is that in EVE we don't have the option to assasinate the leadership of an alliance... however if you take the time and have the wit, and your opponent is careless, you can assasinate the alliance itself.
This is equitable to me.



Hacking an account?
That's hardly equitable.



I don't know what's worse, the whiners complaining about a perfectly valid game mechanic or the ******s crying hax every time this happens.

Go play WoW.

CRUSH BOSS
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.10.29 09:03:00 - [131]
 

:condi:

Richyp
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.10.29 09:15:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Isilwen Nightfall
Originally by: U Mad

Protip, metagaming is still gaming.

U me bro?


Sorry, playing EvE does not mean "metagaming" EvE.
I fully support the concept of "harsh, cruel universe" which is EvE, but this kind of actions goes BEYOND all that. It's unsporting, even in a cruel and ruthless game like this.



But the game itself is boring, watching whiners like you cry is the only reason to pay a monthly fee.

MullahMogwai
Minmatar
Dromedaworks inc
The Crimson Federation
Posted - 2009.10.29 09:20:00 - [133]
 

This is a good day :)... Im dancing and singing (and im a misanthrop)..

Tigerfish.. now we can continue to take down their former "pets".. :)

Alliance Lottery
Amarr
Dromedaworks inc
The Crimson Federation
Posted - 2009.10.29 09:52:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Isilwen Nightfall
Originally by: Ranger 1

Actually, the point is that in EVE we don't have the option to assasinate the leadership of an alliance... however if you take the time and have the wit, and your opponent is careless, you can assasinate the alliance itself.
This is equitable to me.



Hacking an account?
That's hardly equitable.



Who said anything about hackin an account.. ??

Alvar Kesh
Gallente
Ealurian Shipyards
Posted - 2009.10.29 10:06:00 - [135]
 

lol, 2 years, damn that's a long time, OP should go to a psychiatrist, poor guy Very Happy

Isilwen Nightfall
Caldari
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.29 10:57:00 - [136]
 

Edited by: Isilwen Nightfall on 29/10/2009 11:00:07
Originally by: Psilocin
I don't know what's worse, the whiners complaining about a perfectly valid game mechanic or the ******s crying hax every time this happens.

Go play WoW.


As I said before, in my opinion this is NOT a valid game mechanic :) It's a loophole :) I'm sure it's valid for you, due to the fact that you abuse it :D
And no, I'll go playing EvE, thanks :)


Originally by: Richyp
But the game itself is boring, watching whiners like you cry is the only reason to pay a monthly fee.


If you're serious (and I'm sure you are) you are in need of help. And fast :) I know it's cool to sound 1337, but this is pathetic :)

Originally by: Alliance Lottery

Who said anything about hackin an account.. ??


Well, that's what probably happened. The character used to disband the alliance was a 3-year-old officer, who logged outside of his usual timezone, and from another client.
Of course, you can say "But that's a CVA statement! It's obvious they will claim an hacking!" Well, maybe. But from the looks of things, it's the most logical explanation right now.

General Rivera
Caldari
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2009.10.29 11:15:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Mendolus
See this is how it is. In most MMOs if the game client is hacked, and people suffer from it, there is this huge uproar and denouncement from the general public. But in EVE, an alarming amount of people seem to buy into the sandbox almost to the point of absurdity. It is like living next to an active volcano that erupts and you are laughing as the pyroclastic wave kills your neighbors. You are seconds away from the same death and yet you are laughing because for whatever reason, you are stark-raving mad.

Anyone who invests in any alliance should feel the obvious disparity here between what happens as the result of game mechanics as opposed to hacking the game client. However, it seems convenient to play the apathy card so long as you seem reasonably certain that it could never happen to the social group YOU have invested time in. Who are you going to have to blame when it DOES happen to you? No one but yourself.

IMO this turn of events has actually shown just how much underlying respect the EVE gaming community actually does have for CVA with their overwhelming response in the game itself, is a loud and almost audible denunciation of any outside source affecting the game client in a way that breaks the EULA. We want to play a game here, not have the game hacked and destroyed, no? You gonna pay $15/account for a game that gets hacked repetitively or encourage and promote the universal notion that we are seeing in the game itself, that hacking the game client is wrong? CVA just like every other sovereign power bloc has just as much right to play this game within the scope of the EULA as everyone else. Without that right, it is no longer a game, but a virtual dump where there are no tangible or consistent merits to any large group endeavor as it will simply be nullified by criminal action.

I for one, would rather play a game where the real enemy is within the game, not outside, even if it is spying or subterfuge, it is within the scope of the game environment. This is supposed to be a place where the real crimes of the world cannot touch us, why would anyone revel in a criminal breaching that trust is beyond me, other than the notion that they have a lack of comprehension and awareness of the ramifications of universalizing such notions. If it were a CVA director's credit card account that were hacked, would people be cheering just as much I wonder? If it were a flaw in the security of the game client and YOUR credit card account was equally at risk, would you be laughing it up? If it were your game account at constant risk, if you buy GTCs with ISK, would you be laughing it up? If you had to logon every day wondering if the loophole you had no control over in the game client would let some tool hijack YOUR account, would you play this game? Anyone who says yes, is arguing the absurd. Or clinically insane.


Possibly one of the best said post in forums EVER, well done.Very Happy Hail CVA

Exit Scanner
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2009.10.29 11:35:00 - [138]
 

Will ccp change the game for 1 account? Thats a little weird... Rollback sov for cva would be a stupid call no matter if you are cva friendly or not!

Richyp
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.10.29 11:37:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Isilwen Nightfall

If you're serious (and I'm sure you are) you are in need of help. And fast :) I know it's cool to sound 1337, but this is pathetic :)


I'm not trying to sound "1337", it's just funny to watch e-honour pubbies like yourself get all hot under the collar about a game, than it is to actually login and click on a red dot and press F1-F8 and be a superskilled space warrior pilot man.

Originally by: Isilwen Nightfall

Well, that's what probably happened. The character used to disband the alliance was a 3-year-old officer, who logged outside of his usual timezone, and from another client.
Of course, you can say "But that's a CVA statement! It's obvious they will claim an hacking!" Well, maybe. But from the looks of things, it's the most logical explanation right now.



If you were going to disband an alliance (which you wouldn't because of your aforementioned pubbie e-honour code etc..) you would do it out of your normal timezone too.

Hacker claims were thrown at Haargoth too, because there's no way he could've got bored with the whole super serious kenny bull**** so he must've been hacked.

Luminus Aardokay
Gallente
SI Radio
Split Infinity.
Posted - 2009.10.29 12:06:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Mendolus
See this is how it is. In most MMOs if the game client is hacked, and people suffer from it, there is this huge uproar and denouncement from the general public. But in EVE, an alarming amount of people seem to buy into the sandbox almost to the point of absurdity. It is like living next to an active volcano that erupts and you are laughing as the pyroclastic wave kills your neighbors. You are seconds away from the same death and yet you are laughing because for whatever reason, you are stark-raving mad.

Anyone who invests in any alliance should feel the obvious disparity here between what happens as the result of game mechanics as opposed to hacking the game client. However, it seems convenient to play the apathy card so long as you seem reasonably certain that it could never happen to the social group YOU have invested time in. Who are you going to have to blame when it DOES happen to you? No one but yourself.

IMO this turn of events has actually shown just how much underlying respect the EVE gaming community actually does have for CVA with their overwhelming response in the game itself, is a loud and almost audible denunciation of any outside source affecting the game client in a way that breaks the EULA. We want to play a game here, not have the game hacked and destroyed, no? You gonna pay $15/account for a game that gets hacked repetitively or encourage and promote the universal notion that we are seeing in the game itself, that hacking the game client is wrong? CVA just like every other sovereign power bloc has just as much right to play this game within the scope of the EULA as everyone else. Without that right, it is no longer a game, but a virtual dump where there are no tangible or consistent merits to any large group endeavor as it will simply be nullified by criminal action.

I for one, would rather play a game where the real enemy is within the game, not outside, even if it is spying or subterfuge, it is within the scope of the game environment. This is supposed to be a place where the real crimes of the world cannot touch us, why would anyone revel in a criminal breaching that trust is beyond me, other than the notion that they have a lack of comprehension and awareness of the ramifications of universalizing such notions. If it were a CVA director's credit card account that were hacked, would people be cheering just as much I wonder? If it were a flaw in the security of the game client and YOUR credit card account was equally at risk, would you be laughing it up? If it were your game account at constant risk, if you buy GTCs with ISK, would you be laughing it up? If you had to logon every day wondering if the loophole you had no control over in the game client would let some tool hijack YOUR account, would you play this game? Anyone who says yes, is arguing the absurd. Or clinically insane.


You sir have gained a boatload of levels in my respect meter. Very good post!

Stratio
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Damu'Khonde
Posted - 2009.10.29 12:27:00 - [141]
 

Edited by: Stratio on 29/10/2009 12:31:04

Originally by: BULLETPROOF 50CENT
We would take down CVA. We lacked firepower, so we pledged that we would do it covertly, utilizing an advantage we had - we were all owners of multiple accounts, multiple alts, and our group was bound by what most pilots in eve do not have - RL friendship that goes back for years.
...
So for 2 years, we worked various channels, various alliances, to come to today. Today, you see our product. Enjoy.

You said surprisingly little in the opening post regarding how you did it, but it sounds like you were claiming to have infiltrated CVA.

As we now know that one of CVA's accounts was hacked, are you going to admit to account hacking or are you going to admit that you had nothing to do with CVA briefly disbanding?

David Grogan
Gallente
The Motley Crew Reborn
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2009.10.29 12:37:00 - [142]
 

recommends to ALL members of ALL Alliances' execetor corps to do a routine password change. Just in case.

CVA and our small alliance are not friends... but i do feel sorry for them cos cheating by account hacking is a coward's way to beat an alliance.

zoolkhan
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.10.29 12:42:00 - [143]
 

Edited by: zoolkhan on 29/10/2009 12:44:09
Originally by: Stratio
Edited by: Stratio on 29/10/2009 12:31:04

Originally by: BULLETPROOF 50CENT
We would take down CVA. We lacked firepower, so we pledged that we would do it covertly, utilizing an advantage we had - we were all owners of multiple accounts, multiple alts, and our group was bound by what most pilots in eve do not have - RL friendship that goes back for years.
...
So for 2 years, we worked various channels, various alliances, to come to today. Today, you see our product. Enjoy.

You said surprisingly little in the opening post regarding how you did it, but it sounds like you were claiming to have infiltrated CVA.

As we now know that one of CVA's accounts was hacked, are you going to admit to account hacking or are you going to admit that you had nothing to do with CVA briefly disbanding?



nothing as lol as needing 2 year preparation time to disband 5 year old alliance, that respawns with ccp in 5 minutes.

wait... there is... it is posting such a lol post and then all been fake claim of foreign deeds, equally plausible as
al kaeda claiming to be responsible for our recent rise in value added tax.

double-lol, but only comedy bronce


ps: Mendolus post, i 2nd it.

Isilwen Nightfall
Caldari
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.29 12:45:00 - [144]
 

Edited by: Isilwen Nightfall on 29/10/2009 12:47:25
Originally by: Richyp

I'm not trying to sound "1337", it's just funny to watch e-honour pubbies like yourself get all hot under the collar about a game, than it is to actually login and click on a red dot and press F1-F8 and be a superskilled space warrior pilot man.



It is indeed a game, and a game must be played fairly :) Disbanding an alliance and claiming "victory" is not what a game should be about: fun. And if you really find this fun, I repeat that you need help.
It's not about this E-honour you speak of, it's about knowing what a game is.
Apparently, my concept of "game" is quite different from yours :)

And please, we saw you Goons at the fanfest. We saw who are the ones who think they're really "space warriors" :P

P.S. There's more to EvE than pressing F1-F8 and hacking accounts.

BuckStrider
Caldari
Nano-Tech Experiments
Posted - 2009.10.29 12:57:00 - [145]
 

From the OP:

Quote:
We thought for a moment to make this public, but what could we do? Nobody would believe a small, relatively unknown group of empire industrialists, over a trusted, powerful, well-known and seemingly well-liked coalition. If I said to you before this, that CVA would disband, would anyone have believed me? I think not.


To the OP:

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!.....Go rename yourself 'Balloon Boy'

An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.10.29 13:02:00 - [146]
 

This one time I was really ****ed. Then for two years I was upset about it. Then I did something. Then it got rolledback in a day. I have accomplished so much with my internet-badassary.

Agent Known
Caldari
Night Theifs
Apotheosis of Virtue
Posted - 2009.10.29 14:05:00 - [147]
 

This whole threadnought is a lie because CVA was restored. Cool

Night Epoch
Caldari
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2009.10.29 14:18:00 - [148]
 

I see your cunning, long-crafted plan was a smashing success.

-Night Epoch, currently docked in 9uy, which still reads CVA Sov 4.

Dhonner
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2009.10.29 14:24:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Night Epoch
I see your cunning, long-crafted plan was a smashing success.

-Night Epoch, currently docked in 9uy, which still reads CVA Sov 4.


* High fives Night Epoch

Dulas
Caldari
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2009.10.29 14:34:00 - [150]
 

Edited by: Dulas on 29/10/2009 14:34:27
Originally by: Richyp
Originally by: Isilwen Nightfall

If you're serious (and I'm sure you are) you are in need of help. And fast :) I know it's cool to sound 1337, but this is pathetic :)


I'm not trying to sound "1337", it's just funny to watch e-honour pubbies like yourself get all hot under the collar about a game, than it is to actually login and click on a red dot and press F1-F8 and be a superskilled space warrior pilot man.

Originally by: Isilwen Nightfall

Well, that's what probably happened. The character used to disband the alliance was a 3-year-old officer, who logged outside of his usual timezone, and from another client.
Of course, you can say "But that's a CVA statement! It's obvious they will claim an hacking!" Well, maybe. But from the looks of things, it's the most logical explanation right now.



If you were going to disband an alliance (which you wouldn't because of your aforementioned pubbie e-honour code etc..) you would do it out of your normal timezone too.

Hacker claims were thrown at Haargoth too, because there's no way he could've got bored with the whole super serious kenny bull**** so he must've been hacked.


OMG, this post was pure goon sex. Tell him that your alliance is bigger next, and then, use it…. O M G


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