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Cre'tal
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:55:00 - [151]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
After receiving a petition from CVA regarding their alliance being disbanded we launched an investigation as per our policy. Our experience in similar situations has often been that accounts were not hacked but, rather, the alliances were disbanded due to failed payment or enemy infiltration. In this case, however, we discovered that the account of the alliance executor was hacked by ISK sellers.

CCP needs you to help us fight RMT by not buying ISK! It may seem like a minor thing to do, all things considered, but keep in mind that these people steal credit cards and hack accounts to get ISK to sell. By choosing to purchase their ISK you are creating a demand for their services and the illegal activities that support them.


The nature of this CVA incident leads me to believe it had to be someone slightly more informed about the alliance and game mechanics than your average isk seller. Why would an isk seller disband the alliance and not just sell all the assets?

Not to say I support isk selling, quite the contrary but it feels like a bit of misplaced anti-iskwar advertising from your side..


I like your sig graphic, but did you know that even the act of scanning US currency into a computer can bring down the mighty wrath of the Secret Service? Clearly your intent was not to counterfeit here, but tell that to a buddy of mine in High School that scanned a $1 bill as part of a Computer Science project and got hauled out of the school in handcuffs. I wish I was exaggerating.

Cre'tal
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:06:00 - [152]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 29/10/2009 16:09:44
Isk seller gets account information: Check.
Isk seller cleans out alliance/corp wallet/assets: Check.
Isk seller disbands alliance for no apparent reason: Wat?

::words::

If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.



Your post and your sig make a very interesting juxtaposition. In your post, you don't seem to understand why someone would do something they don't stand to benefit from, but your sig implies that you gank people for "no apparent reason." Long ago, when I started my EVE career, I wondered why someone would shoot at someone else in space when they stood to gain next to nothing for this. (Those days of innocence are long behind me now.)

Funky Feeling
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:07:00 - [153]
 

1. The method of disbanding an alliance is broken.. even though seeing Bob and CVA go down made me feel all warm and fuzzy.
2. The question of why an isk seller would want to disband an alliance boils down to supply and demand.. a simple economics question. So.. presently they are selling their isk to mostly newbs, pvp'rs and some people trying to seed some sort of their own isk development plan .. ie buying freighters and inventory or pos equipment etc. The problem for isk sellers is that the large rich alliances' members don't really need their services. The space is good for ratting, moon mining and the alliances are rich and have ship replacement programs etc. How does an isk seller access this potential market? Simple.. get rid of the alliance and cause some havoc.. In the aftermath of bob.. querious and the areas were rife with pilots from all over coming to try and claim moons, kill ships and otherwise spend tons of isk.. destroying tons of isk. For the alliance on the losing end, their corps will need to spend tons of isk to try and defend and rebuild and the attackers will spend tons of isk trying to capitalize on the opportunity. How to make lots of isk quickly? buy it. Isk seller wins.

either than or the dude was a moron.

OrionDude
POS Builder Inc.
Silent Requiem
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:10:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: Cre'tal
Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 29/10/2009 16:09:44
Isk seller gets account information: Check.
Isk seller cleans out alliance/corp wallet/assets: Check.
Isk seller disbands alliance for no apparent reason: Wat?

::words::

If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.



Your post and your sig make a very interesting juxtaposition. In your post, you don't seem to understand why someone would do something they don't stand to benefit from, but your sig implies that you gank people for "no apparent reason." Long ago, when I started my EVE career, I wondered why someone would shoot at someone else in space when they stood to gain next to nothing for this. (Those days of innocence are long behind me now.)


You clearly misunderstood his sig then.
And dont know Za'Ha'Dum (for those that want to know .. its the BAD BAD place in Babylon 5 TV series).

As you could see Za'Ha'Dum as 0.0 .. hes saying he will gank you if you enter "his" space.
Thats totally not without reason.


Dr Karsun
Gallente
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:13:00 - [155]
 

Not much left to say but...

Amarr Victor!

brutoid
Caldari
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:15:00 - [156]
 

If it was a key-logger then it may still be on his computer. I say get it scanned and find out. Lets have some proof.

Aquillar
Minmatar
Intergalactic Combined Technologies
The Chamber of Commerce
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:20:00 - [157]
 

Edited by: Aquillar on 29/10/2009 17:21:14
I'd like to add to this. My account got hacked as well this week, all my assets liquidated (caught this occurring in time to have my corp roles stripped), and CCP will not reverse the changes. I'm CISSP certified, no malware anywhere to be found on my machines (after I spent 48 hours watching kernel debuggers and performing scans from numerous virus scanners, online and offline, 3 malware researchers from work did the same thing and found NOTHING. These are the guys that write your anti-virus definitions. THEY FOUND NOTHING). No phishing/pharming scams, and I don't even do anything outside EVE that would expose me to such a risk, and obviously I have not shared my password with ANYONE. A loyal player for 5+ years, never missed a payment, always followed the EULA right to the word. Never done any buying/selling outside of game. Email is all secure, and no other account was compromised, only EVE. CCP won't indicate/admit that this was their fault as I suspect social engineering (to change my account email address and then take over. Try it: send any company a message saying that you can't access your previous email account anymore because of a hacker and that you need it changed.) or that this was even facilitated by an internal employee (I've heard stories of this occurring in EVE).

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:21:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: Aurorae Andromedae
Absolutely freaking awesome Cool

Laughing You must be one of the sad pirates that got owned by CVA in the past. If it's any consolation I sell lube for the butt hurt ugh.


Katsuri Minamoto
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:22:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: Chwho Bacca
How is this for a conspiracy theory:

With the new expansion Dominion being released soon, with all its changes to sovereignty and the 0.0 life it is only obvious that CCP are trying to bring more people into 0.0; correct?

So, what is preventing people in high/low sec from going to 0.0? The alliances.

Would would need to be done in order to get these high sec and low sec players into 0.0? What would be inviting for them? How about disbanding an alliance in 0.0, making a specific section of Eden free for all? A "highway" into new 0.0 space. If I was evil and was in charge of player movement in Eve, I would suggest sabotaging an alliance that live in 0.0 making a highway for high sec and low sec players to grab the opportunity to go into 0.0. I would pick a specific part of space (Providence) because its strategically placed close for potential high/low sec players to migrate to. Plus it has mercoxit and all the other rare ores, very inviting for high sec players.

Providence was sabotaged in order to create a backdoor to 0.0 for all these new noobs and high sec players to migrate to in order to make the new expansion Dominion a success (profits and popularity of course).

Hows that for a conspiracy theory?


10/10

I'm putting out buy orders for tinfoil hats now.

Azrael Acid
Gallente
Pwn 'N Play
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:23:00 - [160]
 

Just a question... Why is everyone getting all worked up over this? I mean, I understand that we're all curious. But speculating DOOM, and to assume that it was somehow the Director's fault is just rude. Has anyone considered that this event might be somewhat humiliating, and that out of RESPECT, ( yes I'll always preach respect ) CCP decided to leave the details of what happened up to CVA, to reveal at their discretion?

If you logged in tomorrow, and found everything you ever worked for: isk, assets, faction gear, even your toon, and SKILL TRAINING, all lost, would you want to announce it to the entirety of EvE? Even if it wasn't your fault in anyway? Yeah sure, I'd tell my corp mates, and friends, but I certainly wouldn't be posting all over the forums about it. The only reason anyone is talking about it now, is because, let's be honest, it's a large established alliance, and this scares you. If it can happen to CVA, or any other strong, well known alliance holder, then it can happen to anyone and it does. Is it really so hard to believe that hackers actually HACKED an account? It happens every day. We just don't hear about the ones that aren't so well known.

It happened last week to one of my corp mates. He lost everything and the guy who hacked was flying around in his character laughing like a loon, ASKING to be podded for a free ride back to where he'd already moved the jump clone to. My corp mate, got the isk value of his assets back, but can never replace the toon, he spent so much time cultivating. It's really horrible, and I wouldn't wish this on ANYONE. It truly is identity theft.

Unfortunately, this time it was front page news because of who it happened TO. So please, if you have an ounce of self respect, keep the speculations to yourselves. I think we have plenty enough information to thoroughly discuss this event ten times over as it is. CVA has been through enough without having to listen to people gloating. Remember, Karma is a *****. And believe it, if you're laughing now, I bet you will be back here crying WHEN someone hacks you.Wink

brutoid
Caldari
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:36:00 - [161]
 

Originally by: Azrael Acid
Just a question... Why is everyone getting all worked up over this? I mean, I understand that we're all curious. But speculating DOOM, and to assume that it was somehow the Director's fault is just rude. Has anyone considered that this event might be somewhat humiliating, and that out of RESPECT, ( yes I'll always preach respect ) CCP decided to leave the details of what happened up to CVA, to reveal at their discretion?


Read Wranglers post.

Originally by: Azrael Acid
If you logged in tomorrow, and found everything you ever worked for: isk, assets, faction gear, even your toon, and SKILL TRAINING, all lost, would you want to announce it to the entirety of EvE? Even if it wasn't your fault in anyway? Yeah sure, I'd tell my corp mates, and friends, but I certainly wouldn't be posting all over the forums about it. The only reason anyone is talking about it now, is because, let's be honest, it's a large established alliance, and this scares you. If it can happen to CVA, or any other strong, well known alliance holder, then it can happen to anyone and it does. Is it really so hard to believe that hackers actually HACKED an account? It happens every day. We just don't hear about the ones that aren't so well known.

It happened last week to one of my corp mates. He lost everything and the guy who hacked was flying around in his character laughing like a loon, ASKING to be podded for a free ride back to where he'd already moved the jump clone to. My corp mate, got the isk value of his assets back, but can never replace the toon, he spent so much time cultivating. It's really horrible, and I wouldn't wish this on ANYONE. It truly is identity theft.

Unfortunately, this time it was front page news because of who it happened TO. So please, if you have an ounce of self respect, keep the speculations to yourselves. I think we have plenty enough information to thoroughly discuss this event ten times over as it is. CVA has been through enough without having to listen to people gloating. Remember, Karma is a *****. And believe it, if you're laughing now, I bet you will be back here crying WHEN someone hacks you.Wink


Read Aquillars post.

Aquillar
Minmatar
Intergalactic Combined Technologies
The Chamber of Commerce
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:42:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Azrael Acid
Just a question... Why is everyone getting all worked up over this? I mean, I understand that we're all curious. But speculating DOOM, and to assume that it was somehow the Director's fault is just rude. Has anyone considered that this event might be somewhat humiliating, and that out of RESPECT, ( yes I'll always preach respect ) CCP decided to leave the details of what happened up to CVA, to reveal at their discretion?

Same thing happening to me right now.

Originally by: Azrael Acid
If you logged in tomorrow, and found everything you ever worked for: isk, assets, faction gear, even your toon, and SKILL TRAINING, all lost, would you want to announce it to the entirety of EvE? Even if it wasn't your fault in anyway? Yeah sure, I'd tell my corp mates, and friends, but I certainly wouldn't be posting all over the forums about it. The only reason anyone is talking about it now, is because, let's be honest, it's a large established alliance, and this scares you. If it can happen to CVA, or any other strong, well known alliance holder, then it can happen to anyone and it does. Is it really so hard to believe that hackers actually HACKED an account? It happens every day. We just don't hear about the ones that aren't so well known.


Happened to me 6 days ago. It looks like it's happening to a lot of people lately.

Originally by: Azrael Acid
It happened last week to one of my corp mates. He lost everything and the guy who hacked was flying around in his character laughing like a loon, ASKING to be podded for a free ride back to where he'd already moved the jump clone to. My corp mate, got the isk value of his assets back, but can never replace the toon, he spent so much time cultivating. It's really horrible, and I wouldn't wish this on ANYONE. It truly is identity theft.

See above.

Originally by: Azrael Acid
Unfortunately, this time it was front page news because of who it happened TO. So please, if you have an ounce of self respect, keep the speculations to yourselves. I think we have plenty enough information to thoroughly discuss this event ten times over as it is. CVA has been through enough without having to listen to people gloating. Remember, Karma is a *****. And believe it, if you're laughing now, I bet you will be back here crying WHEN someone hacks you.Wink


I spent 6 days arguing back (and not so much forth) with CCP in hopes they would do something. Now that this has has happened to CVA, I'm furious, and suddenly I'm hearing stories left right and center about it happening to lots of people, yet CCP won't do anything about it!

Tista
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:47:00 - [163]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
After receiving a petition from CVA regarding their alliance being disbanded we launched an investigation as per our policy. Our experience in similar situations has often been that accounts were not hacked but, rather, the alliances were disbanded due to failed payment or enemy infiltration. In this case, however, we discovered that the account of the alliance executor was hacked by ISK sellers.

CCP needs you to help us fight RMT by not buying ISK! It may seem like a minor thing to do, all things considered, but keep in mind that these people steal credit cards and hack accounts to get ISK to sell. By choosing to purchase their ISK you are creating a demand for their services and the illegal activities that support them.


That was some class A propaganda from you Wrangler, keep up the good work... if only Stalin could see you =]

Azrael Acid
Gallente
Pwn 'N Play
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:53:00 - [164]
 

Quote:
I spent 6 days arguing back (and not so much forth) with CCP in hopes they would do something. Now that this has has happened to CVA, I'm furious, and suddenly I'm hearing stories left right and center about it happening to lots of people, yet CCP won't do anything about it!


I truly am sorry to hear of what's happened to you. That is terrible, and you should be angry. I would be! In light of recent events, ( and I know you've been told this already, but here goes ) the only thing I can think of suggesting is petitioning till someone does something. As sad as it is, maybe now CCP will see that this isn't just a few occurrences here and there. It's happening ALL the time. I hope you can get it resolved.Sad Perhaps there is some new mutated script that has given these hackers a better tool, who knows. Or maybe it's just been happening more in anticipation of Dominion, and hackers wanting to make sure that they have a piece of the 0.0 pie.. who knows? Seriously though, this issue needs to be adressed asap, before Dominion, if EvE is ever going to remain playable.

Cre'tal
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:57:00 - [165]
 

Originally by: OrionDude
Originally by: Cre'tal
Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 29/10/2009 16:09:44
Isk seller gets account information: Check.
Isk seller cleans out alliance/corp wallet/assets: Check.
Isk seller disbands alliance for no apparent reason: Wat?

::words::

If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.



Your post and your sig make a very interesting juxtaposition. In your post, you don't seem to understand why someone would do something they don't stand to benefit from, but your sig implies that you gank people for "no apparent reason." Long ago, when I started my EVE career, I wondered why someone would shoot at someone else in space when they stood to gain next to nothing for this. (Those days of innocence are long behind me now.)


You clearly misunderstood his sig then.
And dont know Za'Ha'Dum (for those that want to know .. its the BAD BAD place in Babylon 5 TV series).

As you could see Za'Ha'Dum as 0.0 .. hes saying he will gank you if you enter "his" space.
Thats totally not without reason.




No, I don't get the Za'Ha'Dum reference, but I stand by my point. People come into my office at work all the time. Or they come to my front porch trying to sell me something that I don't want. That is "my" space, and I've never once killed any of them. People kill people all the time in EVE with little or no real benefit. (I don't count e-peen waving or killmails as a real benefit.)" It stands to reason that some hacker who managed to log into someone else's account might want to "have a little fun" and disband the second oldest alliance in the game.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.10.29 17:59:00 - [166]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 29/10/2009 18:06:02
Aquillar:
CCP has told you, within a week, that they are not going to do anything about your account?
Or did they say they were still investigating?

I ask because there is a difference.

Quote:
No, I don't get the Za'Ha'Dum reference, but I stand by my point. People come into my office at work all the time. Or they come to my front porch trying to sell me something that I don't want. That is "my" space, and I've never once killed any of them. People kill people all the time in EVE with little or no real benefit. (I don't count e-peen waving or killmails as a real benefit.)" It stands to reason that some hacker who managed to log into someone else's account might want to "have a little fun" and disband the second oldest alliance in the game.


I'm not sure what point your trying to make, especially in the first few lines of your post... doesn't matter really.
My point is that ISK sellers rarely do anything that doesn't directly involve making a profit. They don't play EVE because they enjoy it, and don't give two hoots about politics. For them to do something along the lines of disbanding an alliance is very much out of character. Again, revenge may be a possible motive... revenge for CCP making their lives more difficult, so they try to disrupt a major entity in the game. But that would seem to be a bit of a stretch.



Chwho Bacca
Posted - 2009.10.29 18:27:00 - [167]
 

Edited by: Chwho Bacca on 29/10/2009 18:29:07
Originally by: Katsuri Minamoto
Originally by: Chwho Bacca
How is this for a conspiracy theory:

With the new expansion Dominion being released soon, with all its changes to sovereignty and the 0.0 life it is only obvious that CCP are trying to bring more people into 0.0; correct?

So, what is preventing people in high/low sec from going to 0.0? The alliances.

Would would need to be done in order to get these high sec and low sec players into 0.0? What would be inviting for them? How about disbanding an alliance in 0.0, making a specific section of Eden free for all? A "highway" into new 0.0 space. If I was evil and was in charge of player movement in Eve, I would suggest sabotaging an alliance that live in 0.0 making a highway for high sec and low sec players to grab the opportunity to go into 0.0. I would pick a specific part of space (Providence) because its strategically placed close for potential high/low sec players to migrate to. Plus it has mercoxit and all the other rare ores, very inviting for high sec players.

Providence was sabotaged in order to create a backdoor to 0.0 for all these new noobs and high sec players to migrate to in order to make the new expansion Dominion a success (profits and popularity of course).

Hows that for a conspiracy theory?


10/10

I'm putting out buy orders for tinfoil hats now.


Looks like a lot of people will be mining tritanium for the hats :)

It really does sound like an inside job by CCP. There is no explanation and the excuse that was given really does sound like a tactic from so called "propaganda due". Would it be shocking to find out that an employee of CCP is working and co-operating with foreign ISK sellers? They seem to be always blaming these ISK sellers, CCP seems to only complain about something if it affects their business which is actually business 101. What scares me is that CCP staff could use inside information to create an alt of their own from day 1 and become the alliance leaders of all the top alliances and control and manipulate the game play.

CCP should have an Internal Affairs department and investigate staff to see if they are manipulating game play with alts and to see if they are working side-by-side with ISK sellers. Not only would an Internal Affairs department within CCP be fantastic for customer confidence, it would lower the risk of profit loss for the company and any company would do anything to lower profit loss margins. It would be good for the customers and it would be good for CCP.

Its really something worth investigating and any staff member of CCP reading this should have their business head on and absorb what I just said.

Aquillar
Minmatar
Intergalactic Combined Technologies
The Chamber of Commerce
Posted - 2009.10.29 18:29:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 29/10/2009 18:06:02
Aquillar:
CCP has told you, within a week, that they are not going to do anything about your account?
Or did they say they were still investigating?

I ask because there is a difference.



Here's the appropriate excerpts from my emails back and forth, with the latest at the top.

GM replies removed, You are not permitted to publicize any private correspondence with Customer Support, please see forum rule #9

Just a sidenote to this one, previous to this whole situation, I haven't been on the forums since 2005.

GM replies removed, You are not permitted to publicize any private correspondence with Customer Support, please see forum rule #9

The address book thing, these are people that should be investigated for EULA violations, ISK buying and selling. I started a conversation with one pretending to be a Chinese ISK seller and cornered him into admitting he was ISK buying. He can still be seen online playing EVE every day.

There's so much more...

brutoid
Caldari
Posted - 2009.10.29 18:36:00 - [169]
 

Originally by: Aquillar
Words of much interest


Wow, i feel for you bud as it does seem like a case of double standards here. Shame you're not in CVA otherwise it seems your problem would be sorted already.

I sincerely hope you get it sorted m8.

Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2009.10.29 18:40:00 - [170]
 

I'm a bit confused because CCP is making it seem like there are roving bands of isk sellers cruising the internet and hacking random EVE players accounts. This is absurd. You don't get your account hacked unless you deliberately go to the isk sellers site and either give them your account information (ban worthy) or do something really dumb and download trojans/keyloggers from them or give them your email address and open isk seller emails without any anti-virus installed.

So, can we have a follow-up to the isk seller part? It seems pretty conclusive from CCP statements that the CVA alliance executor either buys or sells isk because the idea that isk sellers hack random computers to find rich EVE players is ludicrous. If RMT is what happened, I think we would like to know how widespread the RMT in CVA is.

And if CVA is innocent of RMT then you should say that as well, because I'm viewing CVA as dirty isk seller/buyers atm.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.10.29 18:44:00 - [171]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 29/10/2009 18:49:36
It's fairly common knowledge that in a case of a hacked account you get your isk back, not items that were sold. Apparently this was done, probably after your assets were sold off for less than you feel they were worth. Irritating yes, but you have been reimbursed to the fullest extent that you can be.

Let's face it, they got your password somehow. The intrusion didn't magically happen.

For those that don't realize it, CCP does have a department that is the equivalent of "internal affairs" that monitors employee interactions of all kinds on the live server very closely. If someone internal is up to no good, they will be caught. Actually if someone internal were doing this, they would have been caught already.

So your assertion that
Quote:
I spent 6 days arguing back (and not so much forth) with CCP in hopes they would do something. Now that this has has happened to CVA, I'm furious, and suddenly I'm hearing stories left right and center about it happening to lots of people, yet CCP won't do anything about it!

isn't really accurate in any way now is it.



MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.29 18:51:00 - [172]
 

Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 29/10/2009 19:00:45
Originally by: Vaal Erit
I'm a bit confused because CCP is making it seem like there are roving bands of isk sellers cruising the internet and hacking random EVE players accounts. This is absurd. You don't get your account hacked unless you deliberately go to the isk sellers site and either give them your account information (ban worthy) or do something really dumb and download trojans/keyloggers from them or give them your email address and open isk seller emails without any anti-virus installed.

So, can we have a follow-up to the isk seller part? It seems pretty conclusive from CCP statements that the CVA alliance executor either buys or sells isk because the idea that isk sellers hack random computers to find rich EVE players is ludicrous. If RMT is what happened, I think we would like to know how widespread the RMT in CVA is.

And if CVA is innocent of RMT then you should say that as well, because I'm viewing CVA as dirty isk seller/buyers atm.
Keyloggers. It happens. And why would CCP need to report to you every time someone in the game gets a keylogger?

1. There will always be a business for tinfoil hats, no matter how much information CCP releases. Feel free to call everyone that has ever downloaded a virus, trojan horse, keyloggers, or whatever else dumb or stupid. It still happens, even if you happen to be sitting in a chair high above everyone else.

2. They don't have to release personal player information. Let THEM deal with it. If there were EULA violations, I emphasize ***IF THERE WERE*** EULA violations that's between CCP and the player to sort out; not CCP, the player, and "Nosy Larry".


Pookie McPook
Posted - 2009.10.29 19:02:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
In this case, however, we discovered that the account of the alliance executor was hacked by ISK sellers.



So are we going to see CVA restored and its CEO permabanned for buying ISK? Lulz.

Aquillar
Minmatar
Intergalactic Combined Technologies
The Chamber of Commerce
Posted - 2009.10.29 19:04:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: Vaal Erit
I'm a bit confused because CCP is making it seem like there are roving bands of isk sellers cruising the internet and hacking random EVE players accounts. This is absurd. You don't get your account hacked unless you deliberately go to the isk sellers site and either give them your account information (ban worthy) or do something really dumb and download trojans/keyloggers from them or give them your email address and open isk seller emails without any anti-virus installed.

When this kind of thing happens, it's pretty obvious. Typically lots of pop-ups and downloads trying to start and things going on. Email is the easiest to detect, even if you have HTML email enabled. No one even knows my EVE email address (Anyone who can successfully send me an email to my EVE email address with their character name will get 1 million ISK from me. Oh ****, is this against the EULA? I'm making an out-of-game ISK deal!!)

Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 29/10/2009 18:49:36
It's fairly common knowledge that in a case of a hacked account you get your isk back, not items that were sold. Apparently this was done, probably after your assets were sold off for less than you feel they were worth. Irritating yes, but you have been reimbursed to the fullest extent that you can be.

Not common knowledge to me as in all my time playing this has never happened before (to me)

Originally by: Ranger 1
Let's face it, they got your password somehow. The intrusion didn't magically happen.

That's correct. I invite you to interview me regarding my security practices and I will explain to you how I already mitigated it. The only things I can't mitigate are those out of my control, e.g. social engineering. I do security consulting for major banks because I know what I'm doing.

Originally by: Ranger 1
For those that don't realize it, CCP does have a department that is the equivalent of "internal affairs" that monitors employee interactions of all kinds on the live server very closely. If someone internal is up to no good, they will be caught. Actually if someone internal were doing this, they would have been caught already.
Anyone on the inside has a huge advantage over someone who has to first find access to those resources. Any determined employee can find the means to go undetected once on the inside if he/she knows what they are doing.

Originally by: Ranger 1
So your assertion that
Quote:
I spent 6 days arguing back (and not so much forth) with CCP in hopes they would do something. Now that this has has happened to CVA, I'm furious, and suddenly I'm hearing stories left right and center about it happening to lots of people, yet CCP won't do anything about it!

isn't really accurate in any way now is it.

I don't understand where there's a lack of accuracy in that statement. It has been 6 days, it has been back and forth with CCP, it has happened to CVA (and others, CVA is just the highest profile case), I am indeed furious, and CCP indeed has not done anything to help solve my problem. Explain?

Ridiculous.

weat bix
Caldari
Posted - 2009.10.29 19:06:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
After receiving a petition from CVA regarding their alliance being disbanded we launched an investigation as per our policy. Our experience in similar situations has often been that accounts were not hacked but, rather, the alliances were disbanded due to failed payment or enemy infiltration. In this case, however, we discovered that the account of the alliance executor was hacked by ISK sellers.

CCP needs you to help us fight RMT by not buying ISK! It may seem like a minor thing to do, all things considered, but keep in mind that these people steal credit cards and hack accounts to get ISK to sell. By choosing to purchase their ISK you are creating a demand for their services and the illegal activities that support them.


I understand why people are upset with CVA disbanding/being hacked.
But as ccp wrangler posted it was done because the player went to an isk seller For this reason they should not have been restored "buy isk pay the price" for one of the oldest corps to be found buying isk should make all honest players leave that corp. Those who buy isk are worse than those selling it.
Yet i see everyone ignoring the wrongs of CVA and instead praising them for cheating So i have come to understand that if your corp gets big enough you can do as you like however if you are a small corp or solo player there is no help to be found from anywhere.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.29 19:06:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: Pookie McPook
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
In this case, however, we discovered that the account of the alliance executor was hacked by ISK sellers.



So are we going to see CVA restored and its CEO permabanned for buying ISK? Lulz.
And do you know without a doubt that the CEO was buying ISK?


Ukucia
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2009.10.29 19:09:00 - [177]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1

My point is that ISK sellers rarely do anything that doesn't directly involve making a profit. They don't play EVE because they enjoy it, and don't give two hoots about politics. For them to do something along the lines of disbanding an alliance is very much out of character. Again, revenge may be a possible motive... revenge for CCP making their lives more difficult, so they try to disrupt a major entity in the game. But that would seem to be a bit of a stretch.

Do you have any idea how much ISK they could get for disbanding CVA? When you've been around that long, you've got a lot of enemies.

Another possibility is that they hoped the chaos would help them get away with the loot.

Another possibility is CCP is claiming it's RMTers, but it was someone with a grudge using a keylogger developed by RMTers.

And so on and so on. We simply don't have enough info to make any judgments.

Aquillar
Minmatar
Intergalactic Combined Technologies
The Chamber of Commerce
Posted - 2009.10.29 19:09:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
1. There will always be a business for tinfoil hats, no matter how much information CCP releases. Feel free to call everyone that has ever downloaded a virus, trojan horse, keyloggers, or whatever else dumb or stupid. It still happens, even if you happen to be sitting in a chair high above everyone else.

It tends to happen more to those in the high chairs (in the corporate world).

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
2. They don't have to release personal player information. Let THEM deal with it. If there were EULA violations, I emphasize ***IF THERE WERE*** EULA violations that's between CCP and the player to sort out; not CCP, the player, and "Nosy Larry".
If this comment was directed to me, I'd like to point out that I was requesting information for my own account. In Canada, it's illegal for a company to deny a customer that request (with some exceptions of course, but this request is hardily an exception).

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2009.10.29 19:11:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
They don't play EVE because they enjoy it, and don't give two hoots about politics. For them to do something along the lines of disbanding an alliance is very much out of character.



Just click the button for the lulz. When something is so easy, why not do it?

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.29 19:11:00 - [180]
 

Originally by: Aquillar
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
2. They don't have to release personal player information. Let THEM deal with it. If there were EULA violations, I emphasize ***IF THERE WERE*** EULA violations that's between CCP and the player to sort out; not CCP, the player, and "Nosy Larry".
If this comment was directed to me, I'd like to point out that I was requesting information for my own account. In Canada, it's illegal for a company to deny a customer that request (with some exceptions of course, but this request is hardily an exception).

No, it was directed to the poster above that post and everyone else requesting information about an account that does not belong to them.



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