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General Misaki
Posted - 2009.10.29 15:32:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: ProContractor
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: ProContractor
So why are those websites still up and running ?
Because it's actually pretty hard to take a website down.


i run a little company for myself selling hosting solutions and most providers have eula that covers intellectual property rights and so on and isk website breaks that rule by selling ingame isk
so if one of my customers did that i will have taken the site down


Is your company located in China?

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.10.29 15:33:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
After receiving a petition from CVA regarding their alliance being disbanded we launched an investigation as per our policy. Our experience in similar situations has often been that accounts were not hacked but, rather, the alliances were disbanded due to failed payment or enemy infiltration. In this case, however, we discovered that the account of the alliance executor was hacked by ISK sellers.

CCP needs you to help us fight RMT by not buying ISK! It may seem like a minor thing to do, all things considered, but keep in mind that these people steal credit cards and hack accounts to get ISK to sell. By choosing to purchase their ISK you are creating a demand for their services and the illegal activities that support them.


The nature of this CVA incident leads me to believe it had to be someone slightly more informed about the alliance and game mechanics than your average isk seller. Why would an isk seller disband the alliance and not just sell all the assets?

Not to say I support isk selling, quite the contrary but it feels like a bit of misplaced anti-iskwar advertising from your side..

Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2009.10.29 15:34:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler

CCP needs you to help us fight RMT by not buying ISK! It may seem like a minor thing to do, all things considered, but keep in mind that these people steal credit cards and hack accounts to get ISK to sell. By choosing to purchase their ISK you are creating a demand for their services and the illegal activities that support them.


CCP needs to help the players by banning the ISK buyers too. It's well known that CCP will only set people in the red when caught (no idea how often it is), but not ban them. Be a bit harsher with a hefty temp ban and more people will think twice...

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.10.29 15:36:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: CCP Wrangler

CCP needs you to help us fight RMT by not buying ISK! It may seem like a minor thing to do, all things considered, but keep in mind that these people steal credit cards and hack accounts to get ISK to sell. By choosing to purchase their ISK you are creating a demand for their services and the illegal activities that support them.


CCP needs to help the players by banning the ISK buyers too. It's well known that CCP will only set people in the red when caught (no idea how often it is), but not ban them. Be a bit harsher with a hefty temp ban and more people will think twice...


ban them and they will move on, put their wallet in the red and they might buy gtcs

Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.29 15:43:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
After receiving a petition from CVA regarding their alliance being disbanded we launched an investigation as per our policy. Our experience in similar situations has often been that accounts were not hacked but, rather, the alliances were disbanded due to failed payment or enemy infiltration. In this case, however, we discovered that the account of the alliance executor was hacked by ISK sellers.

CCP needs you to help us fight RMT by not buying ISK! It may seem like a minor thing to do, all things considered, but keep in mind that these people steal credit cards and hack accounts to get ISK to sell. By choosing to purchase their ISK you are creating a demand for their services and the illegal activities that support them.


Buying ISK is stealing... and you WILL face the consequences!

KaarBaak
Minmatar
Seatec Astronomy
Posted - 2009.10.29 15:44:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
After receiving a petition from CVA regarding their alliance being disbanded we launched an investigation as per our policy. Our experience in similar situations has often been that accounts were not hacked but, rather, the alliances were disbanded due to failed payment or enemy infiltration. In this case, however, we discovered that the account of the alliance executor was hacked by ISK sellers.

CCP needs you to help us fight RMT by not buying ISK! It may seem like a minor thing to do, all things considered, but keep in mind that these people steal credit cards and hack accounts to get ISK to sell. By choosing to purchase their ISK you are creating a demand for their services and the illegal activities that support them.


The nature of this CVA incident leads me to believe it had to be someone slightly more informed about the alliance and game mechanics than your average isk seller. Why would an isk seller disband the alliance and not just sell all the assets?

Not to say I support isk selling, quite the contrary but it feels like a bit of misplaced anti-iskwar advertising from your side..


This.

This response from CCP makes no logical sense. Either CCP is covering for an isk-buyer, or the account was breached via a more serious vector and it is being covered up using "evil RMT-hackorz" as a smokescreen.


ceaon
Posted - 2009.10.29 15:45:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: CCP Wrangler

CCP needs you to help us fight RMT by not buying ISK! It may seem like a minor thing to do, all things considered, but keep in mind that these people steal credit cards and hack accounts to get ISK to sell. By choosing to purchase their ISK you are creating a demand for their services and the illegal activities that support them.


CCP needs to help the players by banning the ISK buyers too. It's well known that CCP will only set people in the red when caught (no idea how often it is), but not ban them. Be a bit harsher with a hefty temp ban and more people will think twice...

look how stupid you are

anyone can buy ISK on your name and get your account banned think twice before you talk crap

small chimp
Posted - 2009.10.29 15:46:00 - [128]
 

So when is cva going to change this faulty mechanic!?

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.10.29 15:50:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Tiny Tove
I can't decide who is more stupid, the ISK buyer who happens to be a director of CVA, or the ISK seller who can't keep a low profile.

I'm sure some of Fallout's Favourites will be along shortly to point out that the stupidest is actually me.


I think you are leaping to some conclusions that simply aren't supported by the facts that are available.

While the devs did say that isk sellers were responsible for the hack no where is it said that the owner of the hacked account purchased ISK from said isk seller.

More likely IMO, he got hit with one of the forum phishing posts and didn't realize it.


What I don't understand is why anyone would buy isk from a RMT company when there is a perfectly legitimate way to buy isk provided by CCP that both helps those players with more money than time and those with more time than money and still results in more revenue for CCP.

When I first started playing I was very impressed with CCP's answer to RMT. The ability to sell GTC's for ingame currency seemed inspired.

I mean you can get a billion isk for about $80(US) and you don't have to worry about CCP banning you for violating the EULA.

Seriously how cheap do they have to be selling it for to beat that? Further it would seem to be self defeating a an increased supply of cheap isk would just raise the price of GTC's in isk which would add encouragement to buy GTC's instead.

The GTC sales is just a win all around. Players who would have to quit do to financial issues can pay for their subscription through their in game activities and people with more money but less time can still get the isk to buy those skills/ships/modules they're drooling over. CCP still gets the money for the subscription and everyone is happy.


Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.10.29 15:52:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz
The nature of this CVA incident leads me to believe it had to be someone slightly more informed about the alliance and game mechanics than your average isk seller. Why would an isk seller disband the alliance and not just sell all the assets?
Maybe the isk seller that did the disband was one of the ones hit hard by operation holy rage's over 9000 rmt account bannings and decided to get some back at teh ebil ccp.

Cir Loin
Posted - 2009.10.29 15:56:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: Cir Loin on 29/10/2009 15:58:03
Originally by: small chimp
So when is cva going to change this faulty mechanic!?


Durr. Must read gooder.

Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2009.10.29 15:57:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: ceaon

anyone can buy ISK on your name and get your account banned think twice before you talk crap


Feel free to buy me ISKs... I'd petition a substantially big amount of money suddenly transfered to me without knowledge about why. And I thought they tried to launder the transfers a bit by using strange contracts... You won't see me selling a Velator for 1 billion to lovelovehueihuei however tempting it may be.

Noun Verber
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:03:00 - [133]
 

Isk sellers disband alliances now?

Saartje Sarel
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:03:00 - [134]
 

Edited by: Saartje Sarel on 29/10/2009 16:03:52
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
After receiving a petition from CVA regarding their alliance being disbanded we launched an investigation as per our policy. Our experience in similar situations has often been that accounts were not hacked but, rather, the alliances were disbanded due to failed payment or enemy infiltration. In this case, however, we discovered that the account of the alliance executor was hacked by ISK sellers.

CCP needs you to help us fight RMT by not buying ISK! It may seem like a minor thing to do, all things considered, but keep in mind that these people steal credit cards and hack accounts to get ISK to sell. By choosing to purchase their ISK you are creating a demand for their services and the illegal activities that support them.


Just wondering why CCP doesnt hold that in these scenarios it is simply your own fault and not their problem.
Buying isk is ******ed, doing it with a director level account is supremely ******ed. I'd let them reap the whirlwind tbh.

All you are doing here is saying its ok to buy isk and we'll clean up your **** afterwards for you if it goes wrong.

Wrong message.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:07:00 - [135]
 

Edited by: Rodj Blake on 29/10/2009 16:08:19
Originally by: Zeba
CVA = Dirty ISK buyers? I knew providence was not very good territory to make alliance level isk but damn..



Originally by: Tiny Tove
I can't decide who is more stupid, the ISK buyer who happens to be a director of CVA, or the ISK seller who can't keep a low profile.


Those ISK sellers that were banned by CCP recently have taken to spamming dodgy links to key-loggers. Being hacked by an ISK seller does not automatically mean that you've bought ISK.

I'm sure that if there was any evidence that the director in question had bought ISK, he would now be banned.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:08:00 - [136]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 29/10/2009 16:09:44
Isk seller gets account information: Check.
Isk seller cleans out alliance/corp wallet/assets: Check.
Isk seller disbands alliance for no apparent reason: Wat?

I suppose it could be an act of reprisal for CCP making life difficult for them lately, but it does seem odd.

Still, you can be reasonably sure that this is all of the information currently available to CCP... however there does seem to be more going on under the surface.

I find it interesting that this was laid directly at the feet of an RMT by CCP, the possibility that a phishing link was clicked isn't mentioned. That would seem to indicate that there is strong evidence that the account in questions is guilty of purchasing isk. By the way, phishing link does not automatically mean isk seller.

While I am pleased that things have been set right for CVA, appropriate action should be taken if one of CVA's executor directors is buying isk.

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:13:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: KaarBaak
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
After receiving a petition from CVA regarding their alliance being disbanded we launched an investigation as per our policy. Our experience in similar situations has often been that accounts were not hacked but, rather, the alliances were disbanded due to failed payment or enemy infiltration. In this case, however, we discovered that the account of the alliance executor was hacked by ISK sellers.

CCP needs you to help us fight RMT by not buying ISK! It may seem like a minor thing to do, all things considered, but keep in mind that these people steal credit cards and hack accounts to get ISK to sell. By choosing to purchase their ISK you are creating a demand for their services and the illegal activities that support them.


The nature of this CVA incident leads me to believe it had to be someone slightly more informed about the alliance and game mechanics than your average isk seller. Why would an isk seller disband the alliance and not just sell all the assets?

Not to say I support isk selling, quite the contrary but it feels like a bit of misplaced anti-iskwar advertising from your side..


This.

This response from CCP makes no logical sense. Either CCP is covering for an isk-buyer, or the account was breached via a more serious vector and it is being covered up using "evil RMT-hackorz" as a smokescreen.




I didn't want to say it, but yes it looks like a coverup.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:23:00 - [138]
 

Quote:
I didn't want to say it, but yes it looks like a coverup.


That makes no sense though. There is no reason CCP would have for "covering" for a RMT.

I do agree that something more may very well be going on, however I doubt that it is on CCP's part.

Ya34le5Tg
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:29:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: CCP Wrangler
After receiving a petition from CVA regarding their alliance being disbanded we launched an investigation as per our policy. Our experience in similar situations has often been that accounts were not hacked but, rather, the alliances were disbanded due to failed payment or enemy infiltration. In this case, however, we discovered that the account of the alliance executor was hacked by ISK sellers.

CCP needs you to help us fight RMT by not buying ISK! It may seem like a minor thing to do, all things considered, but keep in mind that these people steal credit cards and hack accounts to get ISK to sell. By choosing to purchase their ISK you are creating a demand for their services and the illegal activities that support them.


Yes.
Pretty much like them macro miners that we try so hard to blow up. And anyone that share a belt with a macro miner without killing him are guilty by ASSosiation

small chimp
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:30:00 - [140]
 

Edited by: small chimp on 29/10/2009 16:42:09
how about some tinfoil hats?

wickedpheonix
Caldari
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund
31ST Reliables Division
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:31:00 - [141]
 

Conspiracy Theory time?

CVA director is a RMT ringleader and gives his pass to a RMT buddy who then cleans out the alliance and disbands it so that in the ensuing chaos they can have a very big and great opportunity to launder the ISK they stole.

(sorry it's a bull**** joke).

Godspeed to CVA in getting their sov fixed and all - good luck.

BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:34:00 - [142]
 

Alright, not that I really want to side with CVA, but when someone says "Isk Seller" why does everyone immediately think of a huge Chinese corporation (not the in game kind) grinding and stealing billions of ISK per day. Sure, those are the majority of Isk Sellers, but look at the E-Bank Ricdic Theft.

It does make a bit of sense to me that a normal player could have hacked an account, stolen/sold as much ISK as he could, and then just for the purpose of being your average greifing Eve player, disbanded the alliance.

It's a bit of a stretch, but not much of one seeing as how ISK can be sold for real money as well as purchased with it. We'll probably never know though unless either CVA or CCP decides to come out with more information.

Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:38:00 - [143]
 

The person who was 'hacked' is not the CVA executor but a Director in the Executor's corp. Nor is he as far as we are an isk buyer/seller - indeed how this chap made his ISK is well known within the alliance.

And can all the conspiracy theorists please note that the CCP statement said:

Quote:
...we discovered that the account of the alliance executor was hacked by ISK sellers.


I assume that hacking accounts and clearing them of ISK is a relatively easy way of generating ISK to sell for RL cash and indeed as part of this 'incident' the CVA member's account and corp hangers were cleared of significant assets.

Why someone who was trying to 'steal' ISK would then draw attention to their crime by disbanding the alliance (and even setting up other corps with the alliance name to prevent us from reclaiming it) beats me.

However it is possible that this hacker simply hit pay dirt when it discovered it had access to a CVA Director's account and thought the 'fun' of disbanding the alliance would be worth losing his/her account...

Seems kind of a silly thing to do...






Atum
Gallente
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:38:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: small chimp
how about some tinfoin hats?

We need more than just tinfoil after t20 and k.

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:47:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Hardin
Why someone who was trying to 'steal' ISK would then draw attention to their crime by disbanding the alliance (and even setting up other corps with the alliance name to prevent us from reclaiming it) beats me.

However it is possible that this hacker simply hit pay dirt when it discovered it had access to a CVA Director's account and thought the 'fun' of disbanding the alliance would be worth losing his/her account...

Seems kind of a silly thing to do...


The crime would have been detected anyway.

On the other hand, there may be plenty of people willing to pay a good sum of isk to see an alliance disbanded. If you are a smart isk-seller, you might make a profit out of giving an alliance the bump.







small chimp
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:47:00 - [146]
 

but can someone explain why isn't ccp fixing this faulty mechanic!?

Cre'tal
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:49:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: ProContractor
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: ProContractor
So why are those websites still up and running ?
Because it's actually pretty hard to take a website down.


i run a little company for myself selling hosting solutions and most providers have eula that covers intellectual property rights and so on and isk website breaks that rule by selling ingame isk
so if one of my customers did that i will have taken the site down


It appears that you are an honest law-abiding person, and I'm guessing that you don't live in China or Russia.

Not implying that the Chinese or Russians are a dishonest people, but those countries governments (along with others) tend to turn a blind eye towards certain things.

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:52:00 - [148]
 

It is *also* possible that the CVA director in question had his computer compromised by a keylogger. Remember all of those keylogger links that were posted way back when?

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:53:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: small chimp
but can someone explain why isn't ccp fixing this faulty mechanic!?
For the same reason CCP leave everything dodgy in as a feature: Just to annoy you personally.

Chwho Bacca
Posted - 2009.10.29 16:53:00 - [150]
 

How is this for a conspiracy theory:

With the new expansion Dominion being released soon, with all its changes to sovereignty and the 0.0 life it is only obvious that CCP are trying to bring more people into 0.0; correct?

So, what is preventing people in high/low sec from going to 0.0? The alliances.

Would would need to be done in order to get these high sec and low sec players into 0.0? What would be inviting for them? How about disbanding an alliance in 0.0, making a specific section of Eden free for all? A "highway" into new 0.0 space. If I was evil and was in charge of player movement in Eve, I would suggest sabotaging an alliance that live in 0.0 making a highway for high sec and low sec players to grab the opportunity to go into 0.0. I would pick a specific part of space (Providence) because its strategically placed close for potential high/low sec players to migrate to. Plus it has mercoxit and all the other rare ores, very inviting for high sec players.

Providence was sabotaged in order to create a backdoor to 0.0 for all these new noobs and high sec players to migrate to in order to make the new expansion Dominion a success (profits and popularity of course).

Hows that for a conspiracy theory?


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