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blankseplocked [Proposal] Revamp Black Ops ships; Make them usefull
 
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Jackie Myth
Posted - 2010.09.27 03:46:00 - [181]
 

Please no covops cloak - not on Battleship size. Blackops jump through covert cyno, why covop cloak? jumping through gates? stupid idea use scouts to scout systems not blackops lol

+Longer jump range
+boost resistances
+boost targeting range
+more bonuses

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.09.27 13:52:00 - [182]
 

what about changing the bs size to t3 size. Not cruiser not battlecuizer but something in between battlecruizer and combat recon size. Price tag must be the same and enough powergrid to actualy fit it properly.

Haiden Po
Posted - 2010.09.28 11:52:00 - [183]
 


Tinkerbele
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Posted - 2010.09.30 14:50:00 - [184]
 

Ok, I've completely skilled for this ship now. You can go ahead and remove the nerfs CCP.

Thanks for waiting!!!!

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.01 22:40:00 - [185]
 

The only way i can decent fit the sin is by using 2 ancillairy current router T2's.


Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.03 20:57:00 - [186]
 

back to page 1

Reaver Glitterstim
Legio Geminatus
Posted - 2010.10.03 21:28:00 - [187]
 

Seems to be the answer is obvious. Keep the Black Ops underpowered in all soloist fields (damage, tank, etc.), but make sure its other roles are good enough to make it shine in its field and for there to be a purpose for using it that is concurrent with its hefty skill and isk costs. Achieving that, it doesn't matter so much if not many players fly these ships. Maybe their uses are more specialized, and not so many find themselves in the position to be using it.

Hyperdallas
Caldari
Zor Industries
Posted - 2010.10.08 13:30:00 - [188]
 

bump

Rawbone
Gallente
S3MINAL FLUID
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2010.10.09 00:16:00 - [189]
 

Supported. Make them worth the investment in time and isk.

Chris Cochrane
The Knights Templar
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2010.10.09 08:09:00 - [190]
 

Edited by: Chris Cochrane on 09/10/2010 08:18:39
The only boost they really need is the ability to warp while cloaked; keep in mind they are paper thin, so they're not really overpowered.

EDIT: they do need a longer jump range and a bigger fuel bay, as for the covert ops cloak, it wouldn't hurt to give it a try honestly, worse case scenario, if it becomes over powered they can just change a few numbers around and nerf it again...

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.10 21:05:00 - [191]
 

Changes needed:
Sin:
-Sin needs 2000 base power more, a lol 8800 (ccp did u forgot a 1 in front of the 8800? redeemer has 17000 base power) base power on a semi hybrid boat is fail
-Remove all turret slots and replace 5 % hybrid damage bonus for a 25m3 drone bandwidth usage bonus per gallente bs level and increase max drone usage from 5 to 10 (max dps 950 with ogre's).
-Change agility bonus to a 7,5% bonus in max velocity of drone flight time
-Give sin the special bonus of scooping drones from 7,500 meters and deploying drones at 5,000 meter.

Redeemer:
-Need a 30% boost in large pulse damage and a reduction from 125m3 drone to 25m3 drone bandwidth)

Widow:
-Needs a 200 cpu boost
-Needs 25% boost in torpedo dps
-Needs a slight boost in cap recharge 10-20%

Panther:
-Needs 1 extra mid slot
-Needs a 40% boost in projectile dps and a reduction from 125m3 to 25m5 drone bandwidth
-Velocity bonus need to be changed in a 10% fall off bonus per Black Op level

Changes in general:
-Range increase from max 4,5ly to 6,5ly
-Range formula should get an exception that the Black Op can always jump 1 system jump. Some systems with + 4,5ly (10ly-20ly, A to B with +4,5ly range need to be done manually in the current state)
-Standard fuel bay increase from 1000m3 to 3000m3
-A bonus should be given to the fuel bay amount when a Black Op Jump Portal is fitted, it will add a additional X amount of m3 of fuel bay per black op level, example adds 3000m3 to fuel bay per Black Op level.
-The Black Op Jump Portal should give a 10% reduction in fuel usage of that module per black op level. Currently a recon that bridges uses 1500-1600 fuel while only 6666 fits in the fuel bay

gonesideways
Posted - 2010.10.11 01:54:00 - [192]
 

Still nothing on this eh.

My main was considering this path. Seeing the swift action by ccp higherups ill stick to a BS and continue to pull the trigger with the precision of an untrained monkey...

...but not caldari they suck ;) that is another discussion...

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.12 10:44:00 - [193]
 

Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 12/10/2010 10:54:32
Dear CCP i did the creative part of thinking what changes are best in post #191, now go implement them in incarna

U can mail me ingame if u want explainations based on the % changes

van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2010.10.12 13:44:00 - [194]
 

Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen

Changes in general:
-Range increase from max 4,5ly to 6,5ly
-Range formula should get an exception that the Black Op can always jump 1 system jump. Some systems with + 4,5ly (10ly-20ly, A to B with +4,5ly range need to be done manually in the current state)
-Standard fuel bay increase from 1000m3 to 3000m3
-A bonus should be given to the fuel bay amount when a Black Op Jump Portal is fitted, it will add a additional X amount of m3 of fuel bay per black op level, example adds 3000m3 to fuel bay per Black Op level.
-The Black Op Jump Portal should give a 10% reduction in fuel usage of that module per black op level. Currently a recon that bridges uses 1500-1600 fuel while only 6666 fits in the fuel bay



While I think your individual changes to the ships are ludicrous (BOs have no fitting issues, but the Sin and Panther suffer from bad BO bonuses, granted), your general changes are far more interesting. BOs need more range, not much, but they still need it 5.5-6 LY should suffice. Personally I'd like to se the BO-skill affect jumprange, not just Jump Drive Calibration. BOs need better fuel economy, whether that should be adjusted with a larger fuel bay or not doesn't matter to med. A handful of bombers and a Recon or two usually means a one way ride unless you bring a Blockade Runner along. I don't mind bringing a Blockade Runner but today you cant sustain longer campaigns without several of them.

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.12 14:56:00 - [195]
 

Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 12/10/2010 15:02:20



The Individual changes are based on fitting the black ops semi faction in such a way that their bonus gets applied right and doing around 1000-1100 DPS, sin gets 950 DPS. Redeemer & panther as DPS boats, redeemer DPS for heavy stuff, panther DPS for smaller stuff (Fall Off bonus & good tracking, look macharial). The widow for semi heavy DPS vs bigger stuff (battleships and stuff) and still has a little bit of buffer tank with 3 multi spec's. The sin is on this way an anti support boat with 10 drones with max skills & a good amount of high and mid slots for supporting its anti support role. Removing the heavy drones from the other black ops are my explanation to the increase % of damage output to the main weapon group.
Try to fit a sin in its current state with Blasters or Railguns. U will see that it is impossible to even come close to match the other Black Op's survival ability (ehp, buffer tank) and DPS. The only way to get it all fit is by fitting 2 T2 Ancillary Current Routers & by that the other Black Op's get an advantage since they don't have to fit fitting riggs. Besides that it takes alot of time to apply the DPS to the target due slow ogre's or fail sentry drone optimal and fall off.

Typhoon base power grid: 12500
Phanter base power grid: 12750

Armaggedon base power grid: 16500
Redeemer base power grid: 17000

Dominix base power grid: 9900
Sin base power grid: 8800

Scorpion base power grid: 9000
Widow base power grid: 8800

Why got a semi hybrid boat 1100 power less than its T1 counterpart while the other Black Op got 250 -500 more while the Sin is an Armour & Hybrid boat that needs allot of power alone for Armour plates & Hybrid guns (shield boat's (Widow) doesnt need power as much as armout boat's). Fitting a Large Armour Repair System is not a option because it will take 2300 power (1/4th) to get a 350 DPS tank with resist's that are lower than a cruiser. The capacitor isn't exactly big ether.

So in short Sin needs some individual changes. The other individual changes are to balance races more and make Black Op's more popular. They are fun to fly and it is a waste to let such fun pas fellow EVE players :)

van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2010.10.13 10:42:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen

So in short Sin needs some individual changes. The other individual changes are to balance races more and make Black Op's more popular. They are fun to fly and it is a waste to let such fun pas fellow EVE players :)



We've had no issues in turning our BOs from Covert Taxis into dps-boats when needed. With the exception of the Sin. But that is not due to fitting constraints rather than game mechanics. It's very hard to apply drone dps before a target is evaporated. But we've found other uses for it. Our experience tells us that Grid and CPU is enough on all boats for us to do what we please with them, but that the specific BO skills are a bit out of order for Sin and Panther. That seems, however, like a far lower priority than being able to jump and portal some friends to the next door system and back again.

RRNL
Caldari
Posted - 2010.10.14 13:41:00 - [197]
 

bump

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.16 12:28:00 - [198]
 

still need fixing

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.18 12:34:00 - [199]
 

I would love to see the sin getting 10 drones

Xorv
Posted - 2010.10.19 07:54:00 - [200]
 

Supported.

In addition to tweaks to the individual BO ships, and significant jump range boost, I also think that this class of ship and every Cov-ops ship should be removed from Local Chat to make them genuinely stealthy

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.20 21:41:00 - [201]
 

omg not page 2 again

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.22 11:30:00 - [202]
 

how about making T2 covert battleships not apear in local as only ship ingame?

Tarkelan
Posted - 2010.10.23 18:31:00 - [203]
 

Supported.

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.26 09:49:00 - [204]
 

still need fix

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.28 13:42:00 - [205]
 

bump

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.29 15:58:00 - [206]
 

need fixing

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.01 11:01:00 - [207]
 

still broken

Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.01 12:51:00 - [208]
 

More bumping.

Though... Black Ops is fine as a weak deployment vehicle. Hell, if you made it both weaker in combat terms but made it a better deployment vehicle, it would be much more awesome:

Step 1: Remove all turret/bay hardpoints, so top slots can only equip probes/utility stuff
Step 2: Remove drone bay

Step 3: Double the base jump range, maybe more. Cut fuel costs to 10% or so of current.
Step 4: Add a bay to distribute bombs/ammo to other members of the fleet.

There, fixed. Black Ops is now the raft that carries in the special forces for covert missions, rather than an orange-painted raft with two machine guns buckled to the sides for no apparent reason. Doesn't need a covops cloak, really, bonus to velocity is fine, from what I've seen from the guy that runs ours.

Defenseless Miner
Posted - 2010.11.02 14:57:00 - [209]
 


Midori Tsu
The Concordiat
Posted - 2010.11.02 15:05:00 - [210]
 

Originally by: Lost Greybeard
More bumping.

Though... Black Ops is fine as a weak deployment vehicle. Hell, if you made it both weaker in combat terms but made it a better deployment vehicle, it would be much more awesome:

Step 1: Remove all turret/bay hardpoints, so top slots can only equip probes/utility stuff
Step 2: Remove drone bay

Step 3: Double the base jump range, maybe more. Cut fuel costs to 10% or so of current.
Step 4: Add a bay to distribute bombs/ammo to other members of the fleet.

There, fixed. Black Ops is now the raft that carries in the special forces for covert missions, rather than an orange-painted raft with two machine guns buckled to the sides for no apparent reason. Doesn't need a covops cloak, really, bonus to velocity is fine, from what I've seen from the guy that runs ours.


ludicris changes. i tihnk even less people would fly black ops ships if this changes were made.


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