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blankseplocked [Proposal] Revamp Black Ops ships; Make them usefull
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Corlan Dashiva
New Eclipse
Not Found.
Posted - 2010.07.27 03:28:00 - [151]

Save the BOps!

Fak Jaelt
Cabal Armaments
Posted - 2010.07.27 08:22:00 - [152]

Just started flying a Sin and I now realize how terribly weak it is in many ways. Supporting change to black ops.

Orb Lati
Sebiestor Tribe

Posted - 2010.07.29 23:36:00 - [153]

I'm going to go out on a limb here.
While I do agree that the black ops need some kind of buff, I don't think it should be the ability to use a covert cloak.

IMHO the role of the black ops is primary the ability to move covert ships around via jump portals. However the issue there is the low risk associated with a covert ops "hotdrop", The aggressor has the initiative to pick that low risk moment to spring a hot drop on a target.

The inability of a black ops to warp around cloaked means that there is a risk associated with using them.
An example being to rescue stranded covert ships in a camped system.

The buffs i would be looking at is fuel consumption/fuel capacity and jump ranges. The jump portal is a blackops one unique feature and it is there you should be looking to buff it.

Posted - 2010.07.30 06:39:00 - [154]

I've flown the Sin and the Widow. I've never once considered using them as anything other than a platform to insert bombers into a fight via black ops cyno.

They're terribly expensive, very crunchy, and have such tiny fuel holds it's embarassing.

If they're not going to be improved as combat vessels at least step them all up to the widows usefulness by giving them all some sort of Ewar boost.

I can live with black ops being support if they can fill a support role, maybe an RR boost, or RR and Ewar. Just something more interesting than 600 Million isk battleship with as much HP as a T1 BC and about as much DPS that can jump and bridge a little bit.

Mike C

Posted - 2010.07.30 21:06:00 - [155]

Edited by: Mike C on 30/07/2010 21:53:01
I currently own and operate both the Redeemer and Widow. The Redeemer is one hell of a ship to use for 0.0 jump bridge freighter ganking, and the jump-in-and-insta-perma-jam on the widow can be nice in lowsec. However, they (like all BOBS) were nerfed pre-release, and are excruciatingly underpowered, even compared to an EOS.

  • Sin needs to be a gun platform

  • Drones are simply not a damage platform suitable for the black ops intended role. In fact, the Kronos is much better suited to a drone boat than the Sin, and vice versa. Now I don't fly the sin and I don't plan to (because I'm not rеtarded), but this is all common sense.

  • Black Ops need, at the very least, old mothership jump range (4.0ly base)

  • There are some gate-to-gate jumps you can't make. Their entire purpose can be negated by such a ridiculous situation. However, BOBS were meant to have a very high barrier of entry, so having a Covert Cynosural Navigation skill (requiring BOBS 4 and JDC 5) extend BOBS range would also be sufficient. Not only all of what I mentioned about this, but I had JDC 5 before even injecting (or at that time no inject option so training for 2 seconds) any skill for jump-capable ships so I know what max range is like and how insufficient it is.

  • Massive bridge fuel reduction, now

  • To bridge a BOBS can take 60x the fuel it would have taken to jump it. Do you know what one's fuel bay (at the time cargo bay) feels like after having to bridge all your fellow BOBS because only you have JDC5? Not only that, but the fuel use per LY is completely out of whack, being 27x the fuel used if a titan bridged the same ship the same distance.

  • Fuel bay inproportionate to fuel consumption

  • Because of the bridging fuel use (see above), one may have to refuel two or three times just to bridge a bomber fleet through a single jump. However if bridge fuel use was lowered (set to 1/25 of current should suffice), this issue would no longer be problematic

  • Inadequate Cloak

  • Yes yes we all know how cloaking is now, but this ship really needs the covert cloak. Unlike the stealth bomber which only helped (somewhat), the blackops actually NEEDS the covert cloak. It has little to no real combat capabilities comapared to any pvp ship in eve (and jump mechanics make them their only practical target save for unescorted haulers who have to be idiots to be doing that to begin with) and as such a covert cloak would be far from OP.

  • Ship Maintenance Bay

  • I'm not asking for some huge bay, just enough to store two frigates or a single cruiser. In addition, the maintenance bay would behave like the rorqual's, in that the BOBS bay would only be able to store ships capable of using it's portal. Some may consider this OP, and I'll admit it may be a bit excessive in addition to the covert cloak, but this change (in addition to standard T2 bonuses) would give it a support role which would not necessitate the covert cloak, sort of like the 2008 mothership. Obviously I am not pushing for a corporate hangar, that would be overly excessive even in a wet dream.

    TL;DR the black ops really needs
  • Increased range, 4.0ly base (9.0ly @ JDC5) should suffice

  • Bridge fuel coefficient changed to at least a humane level

  • Fuel Bay proportional to bridge fuel use (Fuel Bay should hold enough isos to bridge BOBS and 25 Manticores 4.5ly @ Bridge 4 JFC 5)

  • Very small JH2-only ship maintenance bay

  • My 2

    EDIT: **** forgot to support lol
    Originally by: Chribba
    Originally by: Mike C

    EDIT: As you can see Chribba has already spoken, SO ****ING MAKE IT SO ALREADY #1

    Gabriel Karade
    Noir. Mercenary Group
    Posted - 2010.07.31 00:32:00 - [156]

    If anything just tweak the build cost; they are much more palatable now that you can pick them up for under 400m - perhaps tweak it downwards further. The short range is an annoyance and could possibly be increased, but lots of the ideas here are barking.

    As far as the Sin goes I quite like it as is (aligns and warps almost as fast as Vagabonds when used correctly) and is all round very versatile - it doesn't need changing into a carbon copy of the other Black Ops. But, if the damage were to be beefed up: change the 5% bonus to a 7.5% bonus instead of crazy ideas involving changing models and adding extra turrets (never going to happen).

    Hemmo Paskiainen
    Posted - 2010.08.20 23:26:00 - [157]

    Guess i need to keep bumping it untill it get fixed YARRRR!!

    DarkStar 1
    Posted - 2010.08.23 03:11:00 - [158]

    i like the small ship maintenance array idea

    boost blops

    Eve Orwell
    Goonswarm Federation
    Posted - 2010.08.24 11:05:00 - [159]

    i agree, small ship maintainence bay would be awesome, and maybe give it (instead of a corp hangar) a bomb bay, to carry around bombs for the stealth bombers. Or not, if that sounds outrageous

    Posted - 2010.09.03 10:56:00 - [160]

    bumping with a quote:

    "Data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features..."

    Test Alliance Please Ignore
    Posted - 2010.09.03 14:43:00 - [161]

    Oh my god boost boost boost boost BOOST

    AT LEAST let them have the Covops cloaking device, a larger Fuel bay and bigger jump range

    Absent Cloaker
    Posted - 2010.09.03 15:46:00 - [162]


    but do to the lack of action from ccp I'll have to speculate that they might add another role of the BOps. It would be pretty epic if two BOps in the same fleet could open a wormhole between them for more conventional assaults. I promise that more ppl would fly them if that were the case

    Test Alliance Please Ignore
    Posted - 2010.09.04 18:01:00 - [163]

    Friendly bump - Support this

    Lev Aeris
    United Amarr Templar Legion
    Fidelas Constans
    Posted - 2010.09.04 18:10:00 - [164]

    more range, larger fuel bays.
    Agreed that the gallente t2 BS are ass backwards...give the drones to the pve marauder and the guns to the black ops.

    Test Alliance Please Ignore
    Posted - 2010.09.04 19:38:00 - [165]

    Edited by: ImmaSplodeYou on 04/09/2010 19:40:12
    Originally by: Lev Aeris
    more range, larger fuel bays.
    Agreed that the gallente t2 BS are ass backwards...give the drones to the pve marauder and the guns to the black ops.

    Unfortunately that would make it ugly for CCP because Blackops = Tier 1 Tech 2 and Marauders = Tier 2 Tech 2, and Hulls of T2 ships share many attributes with their T1s. However your suggestion would be nice :(

    Only thing I could think of is if they gave the Marauder a 100% drone damage role bonus and nerfed the turret highslots


    Fix the ****ing blackops, this is now my crusade


    Dirt Nap Squad
    Posted - 2010.09.04 20:26:00 - [166]

    Here's my 2 ISK again.

    • Change the cloaked velocity bonus to (or in addition to) a 20% per level reduction of scan resolution penalty of cloaking devices.

    • Increase Jump and bridge range by 50% (should be enough to get some of those regional jumps that are just out of reach currently)

    • Change the Sin's agility bonus to a 7.5% tracking bonus per level.

    • Change the Panther's speed bonus to 10% falloff per level bonus.

    IMO The other 2 ships should be fine with the top 2 bullets I made and the other aspects of the whole ship class is balanced in terms of tank/gank.

    Rip Minner
    ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
    Posted - 2010.09.04 22:45:00 - [167]

    Edited by: Rip Minner on 04/09/2010 22:47:44
    Ya there pure crap for a tech 2 ship just becouse you can jump with alittle clocking abitly. wtf sorry ars of a BS if you ask me. Not so great of the fighting is there main problem.

    O I can jump a little or alot and even if you inc jump range by 2000% there still crap in a fight.ugh

    A stealth bomber group is way more usefull/takes less time to train/and cost less.

    Test Alliance Please Ignore
    Posted - 2010.09.06 19:57:00 - [168]


    Posted - 2010.09.07 02:36:00 - [169]

    don't want to train for this type of ships anymore after reading what these ships are currently capable of :/

    so i agree with the need for changes, at least jump range...

    AoF Lottery Services
    Posted - 2010.09.07 06:47:00 - [170]

    Edited by: AtheistOfFail on 07/09/2010 06:47:46
    Originally by: Raid'En

    Hate to say but i agree. Didn't get the thread at all until we had a bomber gang and had to take a covert ops hauler along. I kept wondering what it was for... until we ran out of fuel. Shocked

    Hemmo Paskiainen
    Posted - 2010.09.14 15:21:00 - [171]

    Dear ccp,

    I refuse to pay plex with rl isk untill its fixed. This is costing u allready 6 x 3 x 27= 487 euro's




    Black Viper Nomads

    Posted - 2010.09.15 09:23:00 - [172]

    Please address this particular issue.

    Titans don't need to drag around a fleet of haulers to do what they do.

    Why should Black Ops require this?


    D Scan
    Posted - 2010.09.15 23:47:00 - [173]


    Posted - 2010.09.18 01:07:00 - [174]

    I think we need to rethink what black ops is. I say remove these black ops ships and replace them with something battle cruiser size. Something that isn't offensive but can jump between systems without a cyno and can use covert ops cloak. Hell, just make it jump into the system at 12,000km from the gate or something. So it can jump in and spy on the enemy without them knowing. Which to me is the point of black ops.

    I just think black ops should be the ultimate spy ship. Not this half cloaker half damage useless mutant. And not something one has to have two payed accounts just to use.

    Test Alliance Please Ignore
    Posted - 2010.09.19 00:10:00 - [175]


    Please solve this, if nothing else make the Sin have Dampener bonuses and panther web/TP bouses just for the hell of it

    But mainly allow them to fit a covops cloak and all that good stuff

    Star Frontiers
    Posted - 2010.09.19 13:11:00 - [176]

    Black Ops needs some serious love. Hell , theres more titans flying around than BO`s (probably).

    The jump range is a start but i think a little more innovation is whats needed with them.
    CCP please do something about them, I dont know what you guys are playing at.

    Black Viper Nomads
    Posted - 2010.09.22 16:16:00 - [177]

    Is it too much to ask for some feedback here?

    Managing to fix rockets but ignore this?

    Bit sad really. Anyone from CCP or CSM care to comment or has this "priority CSM issue" been swept aside in favor of capital PVE in the forthcoming update?


    Gimmy Rotten
    Posted - 2010.09.23 10:37:00 - [178]

    BO ships really need an overall boost !

    - cloak warp
    - bonus/skill level
    - skins
    - fuel bay
    - jump range
    - integrated covert cyno AND jump portal

    Just Make It Happen !


    Posted - 2010.09.24 16:14:00 - [179]

    back to first page

    Broski Enterprises
    Elite Space Guild
    Posted - 2010.09.25 02:23:00 - [180]

    Edited by: Viribus on 25/09/2010 02:25:06
    Personally, I think to be in line with other covert-style ships, Blops should get a bonus to their racial ewar instead of useless things like velocity and agility, along with other improvements (less mass, for one, reduced fuel use, longer range (supposed to go behind enemy lines, not two jumps away...), actual T2 resists, better fitting, etc.)

    The Widow is fine, for bonuses at least, but it would make sense to give the Sin a point range bonus, the Panther a web range bonus, and the Redeemer a neut transfer bonus. This would be consistent with the other covert/recon ships for each race.

    It's a bit silly to compare tanking and offensive ability to their T1 counterparts, since blops ships aren't meant to be effective in straight-up combat, but they need a serious boost to mobility, fitting, and bonuses.

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