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blankseplocked [Proposal] Revamp Black Ops ships; Make them usefull
 
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.02.09 21:42:00 - [61]
 

bumpies

Flying ZombieJesus
Posted - 2010.02.10 13:48:00 - [62]
 

like to see the sin's base model switched to the mega; blasters over drones. The sin is only really useful to bridge stealth bombers, as it can't do hit and run like the other three black ops

Newbee
Posted - 2010.02.11 14:10:00 - [63]
 

sorry but having more titans than blackops ingame is really... FAIL
--> boost blackops

Ithaki
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.02.12 23:20:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Ithaki on 12/02/2010 23:19:59
Make Black Ops the only type of vessel that can scan out another cloaker, should make things more interesting... ow and give the darn ship a covops cloak so it can move around in enemy space.

Lord Helghast
Posted - 2010.02.12 23:25:00 - [65]
 

isn't that always how it is they try to "not make a solo pwn ship" and instead they nerf the **** out of a ship till no one ever wants to fly it, and some races seem to get hit even worse than others

Liol Wongsta
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.02.13 18:14:00 - [66]
 

Covert cloak - Not fussed.
Increase jump range by minimum 50% - YES.
Can covert cyno into hisec space - YES.
Reduce fuel usage by 60% and then BO led gangs are viable - YES
Warfare links - YES PLEASE, but can understand why they wouldn't be added.
HP / resists are a no brainer - Increase them above t1 hulls.
Can fit probe launcher to scan out Cloakers - WIN. Watch BO numbers climb above carriers then. (make it massively skill intensive and KEEP it there however.

van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2010.02.13 19:01:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Liol Wongsta
Covert cloak - Not fussed.
Increase jump range by minimum 50% - YES.
Can covert cyno into hisec space - YES.
Reduce fuel usage by 60% and then BO led gangs are viable - YES
Warfare links - YES PLEASE, but can understand why they wouldn't be added.
HP / resists are a no brainer - Increase them above t1 hulls.
Can fit probe launcher to scan out Cloakers - WIN. Watch BO numbers climb above carriers then. (make it massively skill intensive and KEEP it there however.


This. Don't really care about the resist, but the rest, it seems so obvious.

EdTeach
Posted - 2010.02.15 03:57:00 - [68]
 


Things I would change re: Black Ops ...

Covert Ops Cloak - As has been stated ad nauseum, why does the leader of a covert ops gang not have the same basic ability as the rest of the gang? If you have to balance it somehow.. remove 75m3 of drone bay from each Black Ops to 'make room' for cpu banks for Covert Ops Cloak. "A hiding ship launches no drones" should be on a plaque above every Black Ops command chair.

Jump Range - Again, it has been stated many times before. It needs to be able to do its job.

Fuel Use - Lowering the amount needed per ship, or raising the amount carried in Fuel bay would be nice. But, if the first two suggestions are implemented I feel that either there will be more Black Ops around to help, or folks won't mind bringing along a Blockade Runner to carry supplies.

----

As far as resists, ehp and dps... I have no problem keeping them either close to or exactly where they are(for now). This ship type is designed for a purpose. I do not believe that purpose is going 1v1 or toe-to-toe with anything... ever. Fitting the Covert Ops Cloak would greatly reduce the ship's vulnerability and any need to take or give damage.

You want to make it more survivable? Maybe give it a +2 warp strength. He who cloaks and warps away... lives to bridge his whole gang out.

I would like to see it become the support vessel it can be, without becoming a ship that pilots would to take into a real battle. You wouldn't throw your reppers out in front would you? I think the same concept applies here. Make the ship too valuable and fragile to risk in open combat, but not in a monetary sense. It should be your ride home, take care of it.

Covert cloak, range and fuel first, then let the dust settle to see if needs more love in the resists, ehp and dps department.


----------


foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows

Posted - 2010.02.15 09:30:00 - [69]
 

Somehow i think black ops should be taken in the SB direction.

Make them paper thin DPS machines that can sneak in, call in more paper thin friends, make a blow, then run away... unless caught, which causes them to die horribly.

But in general, just the jump range, and maybe bit more tought out bonuses should do it for now.

Flying ZombieJesus
Posted - 2010.02.16 16:27:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: foksieloy
Somehow i think black ops should be taken in the SB direction.

Make them paper thin DPS machines that can sneak in, call in more paper thin friends, make a blow, then run away... unless caught, which causes them to die horribly.

But in general, just the jump range, and maybe bit more tought out bonuses should do it for now.


They're already pretty paper thin - going even moreso would make them hard to use, as they're 650mil each. Losing even one of them means that you lost the battle, so they have to be a little resilient.

Xtover
Suicide Kings
Posted - 2010.02.17 15:25:00 - [71]
 

I agree, let it be able to probe out cloaked ships, require Astrometrics V .

Zurin Arctus
Posted - 2010.02.17 19:54:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Xtover
I agree, let it be able to probe out cloaked ships, require Astrometrics V .


Idea of giving Black Ops a boost supported, but Xtover is a ****tard.

Issue one: According to CCP, the current database/server structuring does not allow people to query the location of cloaked ships. Everything would have to be overhauled to allow this.

Issue two: Even if it were feasible, would you really want to break cloaking by allowing anyone to scan down a cloaked ship? Bad idea and you should feel bad.

Xtover
Suicide Kings
Posted - 2010.02.17 20:32:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: Xtover on 17/02/2010 21:24:08
Originally by: Zurin Arctus
Originally by: Xtover
I agree, let it be able to probe out cloaked ships, require Astrometrics V .


Idea of giving Black Ops a boost supported, but Xtover is a ****tard.


Wow you shoot the messenger too, eh? How DARE someone support a topic you don't agree with!

Quote:
Issue one: According to CCP, the current database/server structuring does not allow people to query the location of cloaked ships. Everything would have to be overhauled to allow this.


[citation needed]

if there's no query showing how to find cloaked ships, however every ship and every item in a system has a coordinate. look it up when you make a bookmark. It's not in place but can be. I'd LOVE to see that quote. Please find it for me.

Quote:

Issue two: Even if it were feasible, would you really want to break cloaking by allowing anyone to scan down a cloaked ship? Bad idea and you should feel bad.


It's not breaking cloaking. it's taking a BLACK OPS VESSEL TO HUNT DOWN ANOTHER. it's a ship that costs anywhere from half to three-quarters of a billion isk (more than a carrier, for example), and that currently less people own than own titans in the game... LESS THAN 300 PEOPLE FLY THEM, and most don't want to train for it let alone spend the ISK.

First, I love everything cloaky. over 90% of my main's kills are in bombers.

I however also can fly a widow and would love to see it more useful instead of sitting in a station, or used as a mobile stargate filled with cargo expanders, ozone and isotopes.


Saerynn
Lost Intentions

Posted - 2010.02.19 17:06:00 - [74]
 

Supporting significantly more love for BOBS to justify the cost and training. To start:
- COCD
- Increased base jump range
- Increased fuel bay
- Reduced portal consumption
- T2 resists

I'd also like to see CCP revisit the bonuses and slot layouts on a per-ship basis, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I don't support allowing covert cynos in high-sec.

Xtover
Suicide Kings
Posted - 2010.02.19 17:09:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Saerynn
Supporting significantly more love for BOBS to justify the cost and training. To start:
- COCD
- Increased base jump range
- Increased fuel bay
- Reduced portal consumption
- T2 resists

I'd also like to see CCP revisit the bonuses and slot layouts on a per-ship basis, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I don't support allowing covert cynos in high-sec.



I'd like to retract my support for allowing probing of cloaked ships, and reserve that for a new T2 destroyer class.

However I support the above, AND cynos in hisec. The only reason they're not allowed is because empires have "cynojammed every hisec system"

since they can bypass cynojammers, it only makes sense.


Saerynn
Lost Intentions
Posted - 2010.02.19 17:21:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Xtover
The only reason they're not allowed is because empires have "cynojammed every hisec system"

since they can bypass cynojammers, it only makes sense.


I agree that makes sense from a role/backstory basis (and TBH it would probably be fun) - I don't support it because I suspect it would lead to a proliferation of BOBS-based ganks in high-sec, eventual cries of "OMG OP" and ultimately being nerfed to worse than they are now.

Graugaard
Minmatar
Internacine

Posted - 2010.02.19 17:23:00 - [77]
 

I would start actually flying a redeemer if CCP did some love.
/signed

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.02.23 16:19:00 - [78]
 

bumpie cause they are stil broken

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.02.23 22:01:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 23/02/2010 22:02:49
Originally by: Saerynn
Originally by: Xtover
The only reason they're not allowed is because empires have "cynojammed every hisec system"

since they can bypass cynojammers, it only makes sense.


I agree that makes sense from a role/backstory basis (and TBH it would probably be fun) - I don't support it because I suspect it would lead to a proliferation of BOBS-based ganks in high-sec, eventual cries of "OMG OP" and ultimately being nerfed to worse than they are now.


Maybe limit the use to sec status, only allow Covert cyno's in 0.5 or .06 systems. Maybe allow covert cyno also to be used in mission/ trough gates aswell... Gives advantages and risk,.... bypassing ship restrictions but also allow hot drop risk. The last thing would be hard to implement, maybe allow them only in L4 missions.

Javelin6
Dirt Nap Squad
Posted - 2010.02.28 09:53:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Javelin6 on 28/02/2010 09:54:03
Since Black-Ops are being reviewed thanks to the CSM, He is my personal wish list:

  • Swap the cloaked velocity bonus for a jump/portal range bonus.
  • Remove scan resolution penalty for fitting cloaking devices.
  • Swap Panther speed bonus for a projectile tracking bonus.
  • Swap Sin agility bonus for hybrid ROF or tracking bonus.
  • Use standard T2 resists for all Black-Ops Battleships

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.02.28 11:08:00 - [81]
 


Melcairwen Taldir
Gallente
Aliastra

Posted - 2010.02.28 12:25:00 - [82]
 


Mistress Frome
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.02.28 23:38:00 - [83]
 

Should give them more base jump range than carriers imo.

Hun Jakuza
We Are So Troubled Everyone Runs Screaming
Posted - 2010.03.01 06:45:00 - [84]
 

No thx. Not need more hotdrop for cloaky sh*t

Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.01 06:46:00 - [85]
 

No way

SkwisgaarSkwigelf
Deliciously Vicious
Posted - 2010.03.01 07:17:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: SkwisgaarSkwigelf on 01/03/2010 07:24:45
Panther and Sin need some major love still. Speed bonus? Lame.

Covops cloaks, I think yes.

Jump range... that's a tough one to make a call on.

The ability to scan down cloakers would be a nice counter, but would have to be evaluated carefully. Personally I would like to see a covops style t2 battlecruiser, maybe that would be a good role for such a ship. (T2 hurricane? pure sex!)

*EDIT* Nevermind. I re-evaluated my edit and edited it out.

Xtover
Suicide Kings
Posted - 2010.03.01 12:35:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: SkwisgaarSkwigelf
Edited by: SkwisgaarSkwigelf on 01/03/2010 07:24:45
Panther and Sin need some major love still. Speed bonus? Lame.

Covops cloaks, I think yes.

Jump range... that's a tough one to make a call on.

The ability to scan down cloakers would be a nice counter, but would have to be evaluated carefully. Personally I would like to see a covops style t2 battlecruiser, maybe that would be a good role for such a ship. (T2 hurricane? pure sex!)

*EDIT* Nevermind. I re-evaluated my edit and edited it out.



not at T2 BC, a T2 destroyer- but anyway.

a covops cloak is a must have to the BOBS- sure it's powerful but also super expensive and skill-intensive.

as to jump range... 2ly is horrible. with JDC IV I can jump 13ly with a carrier.

Naomi Knight
Amarr
Posted - 2010.03.01 12:47:00 - [88]
 

Just make them worth to be used for their price tag+sp need.

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.03.07 22:34:00 - [89]
 

just bumping it up again to remind ccp what to do else beside fixing lag issues for next patch, more input always welcome to speed up the process

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.03.08 19:21:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen
just bumping it up again to remind ccp what to do else beside fixing lag issues for next patch, more input always welcome to speed up the process


See CSM minutes :)


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