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Xixa Nova
Posted - 2010.12.31 18:29:00 - [271]
 

Bump this up indeed!

I like the cloaked velocity actually, and they don't really need a covert cloak IMO, but...

They could use a jump/bridge range increase (just a small one)
They desperately NEED more EHP/resists. Equal to T1+5% (shield/armor/hull) HP and standard T2 resists would be good.
More Power/CPU - equal to their T1 version + 5-10% or so, to bring it in line with other T2 ships.
Extra turret/missile hardpoints for Panther
12.5 or 15% drone damage per level (instead of 10%) for Sin.

As is, these ships are paper-thin and can't output any respectable DPS. They cost 800 million ISK, have high skill requirements to fly, and are completely suck. I want to love them so bad - I love stealthy ships. Making these ships into the natural progression from Cov Ops --> Recon --> Black Ops would be nice. As is, they are in a class by themselves and aren't very useful.

MissBehaving
Caldari
Cold Moon Destruction
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2011.01.06 18:45:00 - [272]
 

+1 to this fix this **** already.

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2011.01.08 13:53:00 - [273]
 

Guys in big alliances just want cheap jump bridge machine. But then they already have titans and they complain blackops are useless.

Change blackops into small gang vessels with decent fitting for damage and tank with sensible sensor strenght so someone would actually use these ships more often. I personally think blackops were balanced to be used by people who have no actual need for them at first place.

Plzx. :/

MissBehaving
Caldari
Cold Moon Destruction
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2011.01.09 05:19:00 - [274]
 

BUMP fix it..

Illyria1
Posted - 2011.01.09 06:05:00 - [275]
 

Supported. I would at least love extra jump range. I mean seriously. Bigger fuel bay would be good for 2nd.

RagingRifter
Minmatar
Invictus Australis
Posted - 2011.01.09 07:18:00 - [276]
 

- does not warp cloaked like ever other ship that goes through a covert ops portal
- not enough jump range
- not a big enough fuel bay as to not require an alt with a cover hauler

i think any of one of these things "mainly jump range" would make this ship a bit more popular

CCP FIX YO ****

-Rage

PEACE THROUGH POWER

Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.09 13:23:00 - [277]
 

mabe ccp should give then most bonuses discribed in this topic and change their size to T2 battlecruisers. Desighn new T2 battleships (or T3)

Zia Aiz
Amarr
Imperial Shipment

Posted - 2011.01.10 15:42:00 - [278]
 

Increased jump range & fuel bay size, why yes that does sound more tempting.

rofflesausage
Posted - 2011.01.10 16:10:00 - [279]
 

-Players do not appear in local when in this ship

I can but dream....Very Happy

OC 2av2
Posted - 2011.01.10 19:27:00 - [280]
 

Ooops!
I did post this in a wrong place before. I had intention to post here, but not into EVE General Discussion. That is why I am repeating it here:




Sorry, I didn't read all tread (too long), but I think Black Ops need fixing without doubts!

According this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_ops

"A black operation or black op is a covert operation typically involving activities that are highly clandestine and, often, outside of standard military protocol or even against the law. A key factor in making an operation "black" is that it is carried out with great secrecy; in many cases no official records of the operation are kept."

Obliviously Black Ops are using stealth-sneaking tactics and by all this Black Ops should have -99% CPU bonus for Covert Ops Cloaking Device II!!!

Evil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad

Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
The Black Armada
Posted - 2011.01.10 19:57:00 - [281]
 

1) Extend the max rage of the jump portal. (if nothing else the ship can be used as a Transport ship best friend)

2) allow Covert cynos in high sec. (this will allow high sec war dec's the opportunity to set up Recon ambushes in high sec)

Those two things should give the black ops ship a good role within eve; Both in industry and combat.

Make it happen CCP!

Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2011.01.10 19:57:00 - [282]
 

Edited by: Caius Sivaris on 10/01/2011 20:10:10
Originally by: Xixa Nova

Bump this up indeed!

I like the cloaked velocity actually, and they don't really need a covert cloak IMO, but...

They could use a jump/bridge range increase (just a small one)
They desperately NEED more EHP/resists. Equal to T1+5% (shield/armor/hull) HP and standard T2 resists would be good.
More Power/CPU - equal to their T1 version + 5-10% or so, to bring it in line with other T2 ships.
Extra turret/missile hardpoints for Panther
12.5 or 15% drone damage per level (instead of 10%) for Sin.



As it is Black Ops can already bring 1000 unscoutable DPS, adding hardpoints and fittings would render them really OP.


Originally by: Xixa Nova

As is, these ships are paper-thin and can't output any respectable DPS.



I'd really love your definition of respectable dps...

The tank sure ain't their strong point but then you just portaled a Falcon, and you have the option not to jump in the fight if it doesn't look good. The 1400m/s that my Panther does go a longer way to keep it alive than a tank ever will anyway.

Originally by: Xixa Nova

They cost 800 million ISK, have high skill requirements to fly, and are completely suck. I want to love them so bad - I love stealthy ships. Making these ships into the natural progression from Cov Ops --> Recon --> Black Ops would be nice. As is, they are in a class by themselves and aren't very useful.



Well yes they are not a progression from covops/Recon at all. They're a side effect of capital training for most people. And that's good that way I think.

Originally by: OC 2av2

Obliviously Black Ops are using stealth-sneaking tactics and by all this Black Ops should have -99% CPU bonus for Covert Ops Cloaking Device II!!!

Evil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad



Pro-tip : you're a lot sneakier out of system that cloaked in it. I can't remind a single instance of me warping to a target anyway, always jumped to one.

As a Blackops pilot I don't think there is much wrong with them except perhaps the Sin. Sure I would be glad if they were buffed (more fittings, more slots, more tank, MOAR EVERYTHING) but the Covert Ops cloak would be of no use on mine.

Meeko Atari
Posted - 2011.01.10 20:58:00 - [283]
 

Edited by: Meeko Atari on 10/01/2011 23:48:12
I would love the Cov Ops Cloak to be given to the BOps, Is it needed? not really.

A bigger fuel bay, better fuel consumption and longer jump range is what they need, and out of all of those I would settle for the longer jump range.

As far as more damage / tank, that is really not the role of a BOps, If your standing toe to toe slugging it out with other battleships...

something went wrong


Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.10 21:46:00 - [284]
 

Originally by: Caius Sivaris
As it is Black Ops can already bring 1000 unscoutable DPS, adding hardpoints and fittings would render them really OP.

Only the redeemer has 850 dps and 1000 with drones all l5 (decent 80k efh buffer tank, phanter got 900 damage fitted, widow with torps (<30 km) 600, sin 450 drone + 200 rails or 350 neut blaster (no tank at all). I agree with u that some ships are fine damage ( i know redeemer is decent) and slot layout but dont talk like every bo is the same because im gallente and i feel offended if u claim the sin has a good slot layout and a 1000 dps

Originally by: Caius Sivaris

I'd really love your definition of respectable dps...



It surely isnt the drones for the sin, takes too much time to apply damage and sentries are fail due range issues compined with sentry optimal and fall off


I would like to add a new fix to them, if u jump to cyno u get -70% cap bonus, thats a pain

Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2011.01.10 21:56:00 - [285]
 

Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen
Originally by: Caius Sivaris
As it is Black Ops can already bring 1000 unscoutable DPS, adding hardpoints and fittings would render them really OP.

Only the redeemer has 850 dps and 1000 with drones all l5 (decent 80k efh buffer tank, phanter got 900 damage fitted, widow with torps (<30 km) 600, sin 450 drone + 200 rails or 350 neut blaster (no tank at all).



Fail fits I guess. My Panther is 1021 dps before overloading for All level V (RF gyros) and 1073 for my actual skills and implants... And it bring an heavy neut too...

Bigger fuel bay and range while nice would only make eve smaller and the hotdrops gankiers... Not sure we want that...

Meeko Atari
Posted - 2011.01.10 21:56:00 - [286]
 

Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen
Originally by: Caius Sivaris
As it is Black Ops can already bring 1000 unscoutable DPS, adding hardpoints and fittings would render them really OP.

Only the redeemer has 850 dps and 1000 with drones all l5 (decent 80k efh buffer tank, phanter got 900 damage fitted, widow with torps (<30 km) 600, sin 450 drone + 200 rails or 350 neut blaster (no tank at all). I agree with u that some ships are fine damage ( i know redeemer is decent) and slot layout but dont talk like every bo is the same because im gallente and i feel offended if u claim the sin has a good slot layout and a 1000 dps

Originally by: Caius Sivaris

I'd really love your definition of respectable dps...



It surely isnt the drones for the sin, takes too much time to apply damage and sentries are fail due range issues compined with sentry optimal and fall off


I would like to add a new fix to them, if u jump to cyno u get -70% cap bonus, thats a pain



The Damage a BOps can do on its own is nothing compared to the damage it can bridge on top of you.

Wollari
Phoenix Industries
Wicked Nation
Posted - 2011.01.10 22:39:00 - [287]
 

Love 4 BlackOps please

Alara Talorra
Posted - 2011.01.11 00:05:00 - [288]
 

As others have said, an increase in jump/portal range and reduction in fuel consumption would be great.

I'll throw in with the T2 resists, comparable to other T2 ships, and stats equal to or greater than their standard BS equivalents. Having the jump drive and portal ability doesn't justify a weaker ship - we pay and train to have that capability.

Okie Wren
Posted - 2011.01.11 01:07:00 - [289]
 

Flog!

Uzrial
Posted - 2011.01.11 03:46:00 - [290]
 

Aside from them needed a bit of a buff towards range and fuel. I think the major reason why you dont see them used so much is because they require a tremendous amount of planning and out of game skill. So many things need to go right and people need to really have their **** together to use them well. Its much easier to throw a gang together and roam your way to a target than it is to meticulously plan out logistics. That being said they still provide essential services.

ShadowFire15
Posted - 2011.01.11 07:17:00 - [291]
 

Edited by: ShadowFire15 on 11/01/2011 07:19:14
/me hums the un-nerf blackops song. It has a very catchy tune.

Star light
Star bright
First star I see tonight
I wish I may I wish I might
Have this wish come true tonight

I wish for bigger fuel bay and extended jump range at least by a little. Please with a cherry on top. :) ccp I promise to not bother you about fixing other stuff....at least until tomorrow.

Dasquirrel715
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.01.11 09:20:00 - [292]
 

Originally by: Mike C
Edited by: Mike C on 30/07/2010 21:53:01
I currently own and operate both the Redeemer and Widow. The Redeemer is one hell of a ship to use for 0.0 jump bridge freighter ganking, and the jump-in-and-insta-perma-jam on the widow can be nice in lowsec. However, they (like all BOBS) were nerfed pre-release, and are excruciatingly underpowered, even compared to an EOS.

  • Sin needs to be a gun platform

  • Drones are simply not a damage platform suitable for the black ops intended role. In fact, the Kronos is much better suited to a drone boat than the Sin, and vice versa. Now I don't fly the sin and I don't plan to (because I'm not rеtarded), but this is all common sense.

  • Black Ops need, at the very least, old mothership jump range (4.0ly base)

  • There are some gate-to-gate jumps you can't make. Their entire purpose can be negated by such a ridiculous situation. However, BOBS were meant to have a very high barrier of entry, so having a Covert Cynosural Navigation skill (requiring BOBS 4 and JDC 5) extend BOBS range would also be sufficient. Not only all of what I mentioned about this, but I had JDC 5 before even injecting (or at that time no inject option so training for 2 seconds) any skill for jump-capable ships so I know what max range is like and how insufficient it is.

  • Massive bridge fuel reduction, now

  • To bridge a BOBS can take 60x the fuel it would have taken to jump it. Do you know what one's fuel bay (at the time cargo bay) feels like after having to bridge all your fellow BOBS because only you have JDC5? Not only that, but the fuel use per LY is completely out of whack, being 27x the fuel used if a titan bridged the same ship the same distance.

  • Fuel bay inproportionate to fuel consumption

  • Because of the bridging fuel use (see above), one may have to refuel two or three times just to bridge a bomber fleet through a single jump. However if bridge fuel use was lowered (set to 1/25 of current should suffice), this issue would no longer be problematic

  • Inadequate Cloak

  • Yes yes we all know how cloaking is now, but this ship really needs the covert cloak. Unlike the stealth bomber which only helped (somewhat), the blackops actually NEEDS the covert cloak. It has little to no real combat capabilities comapared to any pvp ship in eve (and jump mechanics make them their only practical target save for unescorted haulers who have to be idiots to be doing that to begin with) and as such a covert cloak would be far from OP.

  • Ship Maintenance Bay

  • I'm not asking for some huge bay, just enough to store two frigates or a single cruiser. In addition, the maintenance bay would behave like the rorqual's, in that the BOBS bay would only be able to store ships capable of using it's portal. Some may consider this OP, and I'll admit it may be a bit excessive in addition to the covert cloak, but this change (in addition to standard T2 bonuses) would give it a support role which would not necessitate the covert cloak, sort of like the 2008 mothership. Obviously I am not pushing for a corporate hangar, that would be overly excessive even in a wet dream.




    TL;DR the black ops really needs
  • Increased range, 4.0ly base (9.0ly @ JDC5) should suffice

  • Bridge fuel coefficient changed to at least a humane level

  • Fuel Bay proportional to bridge fuel use (Fuel Bay should hold enough isos to bridge BOBS and 25 Manticores 4.5ly @ Bridge 4 JFC 5)

  • Very small JH2-only ship maintenance bay



  • My 2˘




    Most of this, and maybe enough of a maintenance bay for people to change mods, not hold any sort of ship.

    Also, who was the dev who though of the agility bonus for sin WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!
    Improve these ccp and things will be better.

    ChromeStriker
    Posted - 2011.01.11 15:01:00 - [293]
     

    supported!
    not sure if its been said before but why not go along the stealth bomber root fit them out with capital weapons with some bonuses? anty capital anyone Twisted Evil

    lwxsky oli
    Minmatar
    FACTS on EVE
    Posted - 2011.01.11 23:00:00 - [294]
     

    make them able to fit capital sized weapon and can shoot target battleship and up. (similar to the idea of stealth bomber)

    Lubomir Penev
    Dark Nexxus
    S I L E N T.
    Posted - 2011.01.12 02:32:00 - [295]
     

    Originally by: Dasquirrel715
    Originally by: Mike C

  • Ship Maintenance Bay

  • I'm not asking for some huge bay, just enough to store two frigates or a single cruiser. In addition, the maintenance bay would behave like the rorqual's, in that the BOBS bay would only be able to store ships capable of using it's portal.





    Why are you quoting someone having no freaking idea of what he's talking about... The one time I used an Orca maintenance bay it was to drop a Tengu in it and it sure isn't a mining ship.

    Frankly I was on a few Blacks Ops hotdrop recently and Black Ops pwn. Maybe they could use a light increase in range but even with Jump Drive calibration 4 they open lots of possibilities (exemple, systems in range from Osoggur with JDC4).

    The fuel cost/fuel bay equation got the merit of limiting the size of the hotdropping gang, which is IMHO a good thing, the last thing EVE needs is mroe way to ridiculously outblob people.

    Proposal wanting to make them sort of a carrier are plain stupid, I bet a good 95% of Black Ops pilots are carrier pilots, so if the situation call for a carrier they'll just jump in theirs...

    The only thing I agree about 100% is that the Sin got issues and should basically be redone, but by someone with a clue for a change...

    As for people wanting the covert ops cloak I've yet to read a single good reason, Black Ops don't warp to targets, they jump to them, and jumping from covert cyno to covert cyno is a way better way to evade camps than a covert ops cloak will ever be. Could someone provide a realistic scenario where a Covert Ops cloak would make a huge difference?

    Leovarian Lavitz
    Minmatar
    Eternal Profiteers
    Santa Cruz Alliance
    Posted - 2011.01.12 05:51:00 - [296]
     

    . A variety of ideas were put forward which would make them harder to move around, the most promising of which was a ‘Cyno Spooling’ time.
    Basically the idea is this: Cyno pilot drops a cyno in the destination system and depending on the distance from the departure system it takes a certain time to either get the cyno field up to the required strength or for the capital ships jump drives to get up to speed to make the jump. This time would increase with distance and the cyno would need to be defended during this period. This would limit the ability of Super-Capital (and Capital) fleets to hotdrop on targets with no warning from half the galaxy away, it would also mean that a Capital fleet would not be able to cross the entire galaxy in about 20 minutes. (taken from: http://keithneilson.co.uk/csm-summit-december-2010-part-3/)

    This should not affect blackops jump drives and covert jumportals/covert cynos. That will be a huge boost to the stealth class.

    Hemmo Paskiainen
    Gallente
    Posted - 2011.01.12 15:28:00 - [297]
     

    Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 12/01/2011 15:44:13
    Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen on 12/01/2011 15:40:42
    Originally by: Lubomir Penev

    Frankly I was on a few Blacks Ops hotdrop recently and Black Ops pwn. Maybe they could use a light increase in range but even with Jump Drive calibration 4 they open lots of possibilities (exemple, systems in range from Osoggur with JDC4).



    What is your answere to the fact that some 0.0 are hugh? Sometimes u need to travel a region to get to a target region. How do u want to cross that without empty'ing your fuel bay for half? or bring 2 vloaky haulers to bridge a small gang? How about the +20 lightyear regional jumps? They still need to be done manualy and are often camped. (bo bridge fuel cost)


    Avrose
    Posted - 2011.01.12 16:01:00 - [298]
     

    See here is the pinch.

    You got a ship that can move around semi well without being seen that has okay dps where in a normal fight two BO ships de-cloaking of your port weapons locking without delay will shred anything before most people know what happened.

    Just based on that mental picture non-cloakers first reaction is to nerf cloaking.

    Long story short don't be afraid of the BO ships by buffing them fear being foolish in playing this multiplayer game alone!

    Lubomir Penev
    Dark Nexxus
    S I L E N T.
    Posted - 2011.01.12 16:48:00 - [299]
     

    Originally by: Hemmo Paskiainen
    How about the +20 lightyear regional jumps? They still need to be done manualy and are often camped.



    if you can't escape a camp on a region gate you are pretty hopeless, most often people now camp one jump further to be on a smaller gate and that one is jump bridgeable.

    There got to some risks still associated with BO, or are those calls for 'balance' are really call for a pwnmobile?

    Trin Javidan
    Posted - 2011.01.12 21:50:00 - [300]
     

    Edited by: Trin Javidan on 12/01/2011 21:50:52
    ccp pls fix them


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