open All Channels
seplocked Assembly Hall
blankseplocked [ISSUE] Blasters 2.0
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (26)

Author Topic

Spugg Galdon
Posted - 2009.11.07 21:36:00 - [61]
 

@ Nafiy Gnaw.....

Thanks, you saved me a whole lot of ranting when I got home from work after reading the flaming I got.

@ Alfons Richthofen......

Please remove the offensive remark from your post. It is neither constructive or acceptable.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2009.11.08 00:02:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 08/11/2009 00:33:20
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 08/11/2009 00:02:11
Blaster problems, in my view:

(1) A problem with all sub-BS ship fitting and bonuses.

On all ships, there is one type of blaster worth fitting: the neutron blaster. Everything else, and you do not in fact have that significant damage advantage over other weapon systems up close (making blasters pointless). This is a problem, because all sub-BS ship (bar Mega) cannot fit neutron blasters without fitting mods and paper EHP.

This results in a line of ships which are worthless at ranges they're supposed to dominate at, namely point blank, excepting the odd drone ship.

Take the Brutix: the only way you'll get a BC which has a damage advantage up close is by fitting neutrons, 3 MFS and a shield tank. As a result, you get a paper-thin ship which even when it does get to its optimal range (aside from horribly dying to anything smaller then it) dies to proper BCs which can in fact gank and tank at the same time.

Myrmidon works much the same way, although gets a better (passable generally) tank in return for a smaller DPS advantage over its opponents up close. It also has a, for PVP purposes, stupid active rep bonus. For solo work, low DPS is a horrible idea, for gang work active repping is generally a bad choice on top of low DPS being a horrible idea.

Frigates are plagued with split weapon systems or being Tier 2 in case of Incursus. Thorax is plagued by inability to fit buffer and neutrons. Vexor is good because drones plus small guns work on the ship, thanks to the dps output of the bonused 75m3 drone combination.

Diemost is a 110 million Thorax. It also suffers from ******ed fitting, not to mention that the idea of a point blank HAC is probably bad anyway.

Astarte has all the Brutix problems, again. The ship if fit for tank becomes trash because of damage output. If fit for gank, it's too paperthin.

(2) Generic problem with up close damage of blasters.

Current DPS figures of competing ships are such that you only have some form of advantage over them with neutrons, and even then the advantage is very minute at best. Combined with fitting issues, it means that you can often kill blasterboats in their optimal (I fly Minmatar and do it all the time - after one point I decided that kiting blasterboats is tedious when you can just reload to Hail and show them who's boss at 1km), not to mention the horrible death if they have to actually sustain damage while closing range.

The damage advantage is just a bit too low as it is, which when compounded with fitting issues and useless bonuses on sub-BS... well, hurts blasters.

Also, do not rebalance things looking at Scorch in sight. It's a ammo which provides you with a ~124% boost to range over high DPS faction, which is a bit frivolous and out of line with everything else (like, javelins, null, barrage).

Boosts need to be aimed at making blasters better in the area where they're supposed to have a advantage, and in fixing the whole load of sub-BS ships which are generally trash.

Alfons Richthofen
Posted - 2009.11.08 17:45:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: nafiy gnaw
Edited by: nafiy gnaw on 07/11/2009 17:42:03
Edited by: nafiy gnaw on 07/11/2009 17:41:10
Edited by: nafiy gnaw on 07/11/2009 17:40:57
Edited by: nafiy gnaw on 07/11/2009 17:38:32
Originally by: Alfons Richthofen
Originally by: nafiy gnaw
Originally by: Alfons Richthofen
You're all forgetting that blaster gunships usually have a superior drone bay. For example the Zealot's 0 drone bay, the sacrilege's 15(15 band) drone bay VS the Ishtar's 125+250(125band) and the Deimos' 50.

If Gallente weapons were just as versatile as lasers what would the Amarr have?


And the Ishtar has more or less 0 guns and the deimos is just pure broken whether used with blaster or railguns?


Lv5 skills used:
Zealot has 0 drones and 5 guns (276 dps, scorch, 1039.5pg/5 slots used, 34+5 range)
Ishtar has 5 drones and 3 guns (475 dps no guns, 0pg/slots used, 85km drone range, sentries do similar damage)

Quit crying you sack of sh*t, till heavy drones take power grid and slots, your argument is completely stupid. The Ishtar doesn't have to fit a single thing to worry about damage while the Zealot needs to sacrifice 3 low slots to compare to the Ishtar's damage. Also gunboats have to worry about tracking when something gets too close too, the Zealot can't track any kind of frigate that tackles it up close while the Ishtar can neut the **** out of it and sic drones on it.

The only change that should be done to the Deimos is another medium slot for a web and maybe one less high slot in exchange.


Hail, EFT warrior for the win.

You DO realise that what looks good in EFT dont necessarily mean its gonna be useful in battle?

1: Heavy drones require 80-100 seconds (and that is with drone navigation lvl5) to travel 85km to target. I can align and escape in a Frieghter 5 times in 100 seconds. A sniper that actually requires 80 seconds to touch its target? lol.

2: Sentry drone is instant but only Curator hits to 70km and its the worst damage Sentry,a sniper HAC can easily hit 100km and laugh at the sentry as a stationary sentry is just completely incapable of chasing down any thing.

3. Same old argument: You can destroy drones(easily), you cannot destroy someone's turrent.

4. A drone boat cannot agro anyone at station or Gate in low-sec otherwise its byebye omfpwned drones. And that is 95% of the battle in low-sec cannot be fought in a Ishtar.

And, your argument just fails: A 85KM sniper is never a good sniper, let alone it rely on drones to "snipe", lol.

Neither is calling someone a bag of whatever add any weight to your argument, if you have any sort of argument in the first place. Which is, a big fat NO.

-nafiy


A sniper zealot can't aggro at station either, a sniper zealot can't do sentry damage at 80km, a sniper zealot can't chase down an enemy due to it's lack of defenses, EFT is a perfect valid damage presenting tool. And I never said Ishtars were better snipers, I just said their DPS was high with a large optimal.

And I like how you completely left out the parts that you have no argument against, like how the Ishtar and Deimos are completely superior at closer ranges anyways. EFT works just fine, hate you superior "i can do it myself hurr my math is better than computers" * inappropriate text removed - CCP Ildoge.

nafiy gnaw
Posted - 2009.11.08 21:08:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: nafiy gnaw on 08/11/2009 21:11:55
Edited by: nafiy gnaw on 08/11/2009 21:10:45
Originally by: Alfons Richthofen


A sniper zealot can't aggro at station either, a sniper zealot can't do sentry damage at 80km, a sniper zealot can't chase down an enemy due to it's lack of defenses, EFT is a perfect valid damage presenting tool. And I never said Ishtars were better snipers, I just said their DPS was high with a large optimal.

Lol What? Do you even pvp? Which sentry goes to 80 km? Sine when is heavy drones good at taking on HACs?

Originally by: Alfons Richthofen
And I like how you completely left out the parts that you have no argument against, like how the Ishtar and Deimos are completely superior at closer ranges anyways. EFT works just fine, hate you superior "i can do it myself hurr my math is better than computers" f4gs.


And tell me, how is Deimos and Ishtar being superior at close range? The only way a Deimos can outdamage a Zealot is to fit neutron blasters couple with void ammo. Void ammo gives a -50% in tracking (which does NOT show up on the DPS of EFT) means at close range, against anything that has a transversial velocity (such as, a Zealot), it does pathetic damage.

And thats exactly the reason why this thread exist. People are moaning because blasters are supposed to be superior at close range but they are actually not.

So while a blaster Deimos looks although it has a higher DPS, in a real close-range fight it does -less- DPS.

No, I cant do maths better than a computer, but what I can do better is use my brain and battle experience and a computer cant do that.

Oh, forgot to mention, you cant even seem to use EFT, with all skills at V, with 2 heat sinks II and heavy pulse laser II, a Zealot actually does 406 DPS with Scorch. Even with no heat sinks Zealot with HPII does 301 DPS. So please tell me where does your 276 comes from.

Also, when equipped with the 75km sentry drone Warden II and no guns, a Ishtar does 338 damage. That is actually LESS than a 5-gun Zealot.

-nafiy

Xahara
StarFleet Enterprises
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.11.08 21:16:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Alfons Richthofen
stuffs



First of all, the Ishtar is not a good sniper HAC, as you'll be moving/aligning somewhere all the time, leaving no option for the use of sentry drones, because you'll just fall out of range of scooping them.

Second, on the Zealot vs Deimos argument, the Zealot can do instant damage at a variety of ranges, with quite a bit of tank, while the Deimos, to actually be used, needs to have a 1600mm plate and needs to burn towards its opponent to actually apply damage, while its speed isn't that good either. Of course, there's a lot of variables to take into account, such as warp-in distance and whatever.

But, in general, blaster boats could use more base speed/reduced mass or a significant boost to damage or (look up the thread for some awesome suggestions).

Also, a Zealot vs Deimos fight is actually a dumb example, because the zealot is a sniper and has range bonuses, while the Deimos is not really geared to be a sniper (although it can fill that role) and it's supposed to be an "In Yo' Face!" gankboat. And, for that role, I can say that a Shield Brutix (before you start flaming me for even combinating those two terms, go and check it out yourself. They're pretty good boats), although it doesn't have the agility and speed of a Deimos, in terms of numbers, it has a similar tank, much more damage output and it doesn't suffer from plates' penalties.

So, past that, I want to bring up a especific thing that's been bothering me a bit, which is Gallente Command Ships, nomenately, the Astarte. I believe the armor rep bonus should be upped to 10%, because right now, it is not worth the buck. I reckon it's role is for small gang warfare, so, that small rep bonus doesnt do the trick, compared to the almighty Absolution...

But anyways, that's an issue worth a whole different thread. This one is about boosting blasters.

Alfons Richthofen
Posted - 2009.11.08 21:18:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: nafiy gnaw
Edited by: nafiy gnaw on 08/11/2009 21:11:55
Edited by: nafiy gnaw on 08/11/2009 21:10:45
Originally by: Alfons Richthofen


A sniper zealot can't aggro at station either, a sniper zealot can't do sentry damage at 80km, a sniper zealot can't chase down an enemy due to it's lack of defenses, EFT is a perfect valid damage presenting tool. And I never said Ishtars were better snipers, I just said their DPS was high with a large optimal.

Lol What? Do you even pvp? Which sentry goes to 80 km? Sine when is heavy drones good at taking on HACs?



Originally by: Alfons Richthofen
And I like how you completely left out the parts that you have no argument against, like how the Ishtar and Deimos are completely superior at closer ranges anyways. EFT works just fine, hate you superior "i can do it myself hurr my math is better than computers" f4gs.


And tell me, how is Deimos and Ishtar being superior at close range? The only way a Deimos can outdamage a Zealot is to fit neutron blasters couple with void ammo. Void ammo gives a -50% in tracking (which does NOT show up on the DPS of EFT) means at close range, against anything that has a transversial velocity (such as, a Zealot), it does pathetic damage.

And thats exactly the reason why this thread exist. People are moaning because blasters are supposed to be superior at close range but they are actually not.

So while a blaster Deimos looks although it has a higher DPS, in a real close-range fight it does -less- DPS.

No, I cant do maths better than a computer, but what I can do better is use my brain and battle experience and a computer cant do that.

Oh, forgot to mention, you cant even seem to use EFT, with all skills at V, with 2 heat sinks II and heavy pulse laser II, a Zealot actually does 406 DPS with Scorch. Even with no heat sinks Zealot with HPII does 301 DPS. So please tell me where does your 276 comes from.

Also, when equipped with the 75km sentry drone Warden II and no guns, a Ishtar does 338 damage. That is actually LESS than a 5-gun Zealot.

-nafiy


Zealot does 301 with multifrequency, I used scorch ammo because (276) people are crying about the range being too huge. A Zealot with 75km range cannot do 338 damage even with 3 heat sinks and Aurora ammo, so it's not less than a 5 gun Zealot firing at the same range. (Heavy Beam Laser II)

And the Deimos is superior in close range because it has DRONES, 5 MEDIUM TECH II HAMMERHEADS. A scrambled Zealot with hammerheads and hybrids on it will die VERY fast to a Deimos.

The Gallente specialize in close quarters combat so don't try to change that. With Federation Navy Antimatter a Deimos also will hit harder than a Zealot with Amarr Navy Multifrequency even without drones.

nafiy gnaw
Posted - 2009.11.08 22:01:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: nafiy gnaw on 08/11/2009 22:01:54
And a Full Neutron-fit Deimos will just die faster than anybody when scrambled, your point? Ever wondered why the Deimos was called the Diemost?

Tyslas
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
Posted - 2009.11.09 01:57:00 - [68]
 

/support

Spugg Galdon
Posted - 2009.11.09 03:37:00 - [69]
 

Alfons.... you're missing the point.

Blasters can NOT track their targets when in their optimal range. Unless the target is bigger than the gun (cruiser shooting a BS) or stood perfectly still. The argument is that the EFFECTIVE (not theoretical EFT) DPS is hopeless. The weapon system is flawed in that it is supposed to be used within 3 - 6 km but can't hit titan (yes I have exagerated) if transversal is anything above 100. For the short range weapon of eve this is not right. The short range weapon should be able to track its targets within its optimal. Fall off isn't really an option as te weapons range is hopeless and just going 500m into fall off drops your DPS rapidly.
All we ask is that blasters be able to track their target. A smidge more base damage too but tracking is the priority.

Razzor Death
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.11.09 08:41:00 - [70]
 

do something already...

FU22
The 8th Order
Posted - 2009.11.09 09:29:00 - [71]
 

Not supported, if anything a SLIGHT range increase on blasters or a slight range nerf on scorch so people stop their complaining.

Taudia
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2009.11.09 10:22:00 - [72]
 

In order to keep the flavor difference between ACs pulse and blasters, but get blasters in-line with regard to performance, blasters damage need to be raised a bit.

The difficulties associated with not being able to deal damage at speed disruption range (10-13km) is a huge disadvantage over lasers and ACs.

Nim Mizer
Gallente
Voices of War
Event Horizon.
Posted - 2009.11.09 13:37:00 - [73]
 

/support

Jst take a look at the Killboards. Deimos vs Zealot has 1:10 ratio.

I'd always prefer a Brutix > Deimos.

Al'kanree
Posted - 2009.11.09 13:56:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Al''kanree on 09/11/2009 14:17:49
lol guy crying about Deimos try this setting in short range.

[Deimos, dps]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Armor Explosive Hardener II


Cap Recharger II
Warp Scrambler II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II

Drone Link Augmentor I
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Anti-EM Pump I
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I


Hammerhead II x5

Only 723 dps (with the drone) in short range and the tracking is not too bad.


[Deimos, dps long range]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
10MN Afterburner II

Drone Link Augmentor I
250mm Railgun II, Spike M
250mm Railgun II, Spike M
250mm Railgun II, Spike M
250mm Railgun II, Spike M
250mm Railgun II, Spike M

Medium Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Medium Hybrid Burst Aerator I


Warden II x2

About 318 DPS Better than zealot

no the blaster is correct

no supported


Taudia
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2009.11.09 14:52:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Al'kanree
Edited by: Al''kanree on 09/11/2009 14:17:49
lol guy crying about Deimos try this setting in short range.

[Deimos, dps]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Armor Explosive Hardener II


Cap Recharger II
Warp Scrambler II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II

Drone Link Augmentor I
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Anti-EM Pump I
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I


Hammerhead II x5

Only 723 dps (with the drone) in short range and the tracking is not too bad.


[Deimos, dps long range]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
10MN Afterburner II

Drone Link Augmentor I
250mm Railgun II, Spike M
250mm Railgun II, Spike M
250mm Railgun II, Spike M
250mm Railgun II, Spike M
250mm Railgun II, Spike M

Medium Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Medium Hybrid Burst Aerator I


Warden II x2

About 318 DPS Better than zealot

no the blaster is correct

no supported




You think a 150 mil boat with 700 dps at 5km but no tank whatsoever is good? try comparing it to the Brutix or the Ferox and see if you find anything the deimos does better than the two (aside from a little damage).

Al'kanree
Posted - 2009.11.09 15:02:00 - [76]
 

Quote:

You think a 150 mil boat with 700 dps at 5km but no tank whatsoever is good? try comparing it to the Brutix or the Ferox and see if you find anything the deimos does better than the two (aside from a little damage).


Yes it's true. But he try to compare the zealot again the deimos to say the blaster or railgun are not good.He say the zealot are more dps in short range. It's false and it's also false for the long range.

For me they are no problem with the hybrid turret with gallente (but they are certainly some problem with the caldari)

Spugg Galdon
Posted - 2009.11.09 15:49:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Spugg Galdon on 09/11/2009 15:49:06
An "honor tank" diemos?

This thread is not to discuss ships but weapons... and EFT warrioring doesn't help. Again Theoretical DPS isn't effective (actual) DPS.

Xahara
StarFleet Enterprises
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.11.09 15:49:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Al'kanree
EFT Warrioring




So, you need 2 Tracking Enhancers to actually be efficient? That doesn't seem efficient at all to me.

Also, if the Cruiser size difference in Blasters vs Pulse Lasers is that big, then why is this not translated into Large Blasters aswell? Blasters still need a tracking boost to justify their damage and Large ones need a damage boost, on top of that.

So, here you go, if you like numbers:

[Armageddon, gank]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
[empty high slot]

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Ogre II x5


1088 DPS over 25km (15+10)


[Megathron, gank]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Scrambler II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Conjunctive Magnetometric ECCM Scanning Array I

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
[empty high slot]

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Ogre II x5


1148 DPS over 17.5km (4.5 + 13), even though you would be shooting only in falloff...

The difference in DPS is barely noticeable, whilst the range is entirely different. If I were to choose between an Armageddon or a Megathron to go with in a large fleet battle, I would definitely choose the first one, for various reasons: Megathron doesn't have enough damage output and tracking to justify its choosing (even though it has a tracking bonus); Armageddon can hit targets at a much superior range; Armageddon can switch ammo in 1 second and hit over 55km; Megathron doesn't have enough speed to catch up with targets to apply damage; what else?

The only good thing is that it has 1 more mid slot for any miscellaneous module... Could fit a TC there, but would have to downgrade 1 EANM for an Adaptive Plating, reducing tank ability.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2009.11.10 01:49:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 10/11/2009 01:53:05
Originally by: Spugg Galdon
Alfons.... you're missing the point.

Blasters can NOT track their targets when in their optimal range. Unless the target is bigger than the gun (cruiser shooting a BS) or stood perfectly still.


If all you're asking for is tracking then you still end up with useless ships.

The tracking problem isn't really there unless you're doing something wrong or shooting smaller ships then you. Maybe with two AB frigates fighting each other... maybe.

You must be simply doing something horribly wrong. I have little problems tracking ships of same size using ACs loaded with Hail M, which track about 50% worse then blasters with CNAM and have a yet shorter optimal and falloff then neutrons.

Range is more of a issue, but that is how blasters work. Lack of real DPS advantage in realistic fits compared to competitors is more of a issue then anything else. Damage and ships (and fitting) in general is the problem.

Also, you cannot separate ships from the weapons. Bad ship bonuses need to go. Armor rep bonus, I'm looking at you specifically. (alternatively, introduce dual reps as one module and reduce fitting requirements of reps in general, so ships can fit damage and tank)

Taudia
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2009.11.11 23:04:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Cpt Branko


Range is more of a issue, but that is how blasters work. Lack of real DPS advantage in realistic fits compared to competitors is more of a issue then anything else. Damage and ships (and fitting) in general is the problem.

Also, you cannot separate ships from the weapons. Bad ship bonuses need to go. Armor rep bonus, I'm looking at you specifically. (alternatively, introduce dual reps as one module and reduce fitting requirements of reps in general, so ships can fit damage and tank)



The first paragraph there sums it up pretty well as I see it. Even with comparable damage bonuses, blasters deal inferior damage at inferior range compared to lasers. The armor rep bonus is not nearly as bad as the MWD cap penalty bonus though - medium size blasterboats aren't going to win fleet battles, so the dps they are likely to be subject to isn't too large for a good active rep tank to have an effect and switching it to a res bonus takes a lot of the flavor away. Perhaps an AB bonus instead?

Xahara
StarFleet Enterprises
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.11.16 14:51:00 - [81]
 

C'mon, guys! This needs to be a Threadnaught so CCP actually pays attention to this issue! Keep the feedback coming! :)

Bevil Smyth
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2009.11.16 15:31:00 - [82]
 

/supported

medium and large blasters specifically seem to be pretty lacking these days. Tracking + Damage boost seems like the most reasonable suggestion, leave range in its niche.

im seeing less and less med/large blasters on ships these days and its a real shame.

Denga Vulture
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.11.16 18:48:00 - [83]
 

/support

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2009.11.16 19:42:00 - [84]
 

From my understanding of racial balance, blasters are supposed to rule within the short confines of their optimal - but now they only do so (in med/small level in particular) if you gimp your buffer to the point where you're much more fragile then ships with 30-50% more EHP then you. Making your ship a glass cannon to get 15%-20% more DPS sucks, when you're already outranged by a factor of 2-3.

A blasterboat landing within his optimal should have a heavy advantage to compensate for its (in comparison) horrible range along with locked damage types and cap-using weapons.

Now that isn't so, because either the ships suck (which they sort of do, since rep bonus is incompatible with doing DPS), the guns suck (neutrons don't, but everything below that doesn't have a real DPS edge over competition and gets a horrible drop in range, and neutrons have horrible horrible fitting requirements).

These are the problems which need fixing in some way. Give me some incentive to kite a blasterboat (or train for one if I want to do short-range ganking).

Korvin
Gallente
Shadow Kingdom
Best Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.11 13:50:00 - [85]
 

The Hybrid turrets need some love, blasters and railguns.

i tried to compare guns with their advantages here, but still much things to be discussed.

Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION

Posted - 2009.12.14 17:14:00 - [86]
 

Blasters do seem to be a pretty weak weapon. Your opponent will always have an easy plan of trying to keep range and if they can you are dead. If he sees you took the 10 seconds to load null he can move in and your transversal sucks. So you must dedicate resources to closing range but your tank often won't hold when you do.

I agree the tracking should either be enhanced *or* the tracking of lasers and autocannons should be nerfed *or* a bit of both. The damage should be boosted a bit too.

Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
POD-SQUAD
Posted - 2009.12.14 18:40:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Korvin
The Hybrid turrets need some love, blasters and railguns.

i tried to compare guns with their advantages here, but still much things to be discussed.

The double tracking on a eam laser surprised me alot.I fail to see any reason for it.

darkmancer
Posted - 2009.12.15 00:34:00 - [88]
 

supported

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope

Posted - 2009.12.15 10:24:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 15/12/2009 10:25:51
I see a lot of people posting in this thread arguing that blasters are just fine, but I don't see any of those same people with very many, if any, kills using blaster ships. Or kills of any sort for that matter.

If you don't have solid experience flying blaster ships, and indeed solid experience flying most if not all races ships and ship sizes in PVP, you have no business posting in this thread. Zero. NONE.

Since Dominion I think that the balance between lasers and projectiles is at a really good point. Lasers are the benchmark by which all other guns are now judged, and projectiles now have some unique features like real working damage selection with high damage ammo and improved falloff and tracking and so on. The damage curves actually end up being unique enough that each weapon system has it's own advantages and disadvantages.

The goal of improving blasters-

Blasters don't need more range. That's not their role. Short range is FINE. Leave the range alone. They're role is to do massive amounts of damage at extreme short range, and be able to hit reliably inside this small envelope of performance.

Boost blaster tracking to whatever point is needed to guarantee hits within their optimal range and boost blaster damage to the point that it's significantly more powerful than the next highest DPS weapon at that short range (probably lasers) by about 35-45%. Yes, you heard right- 35-45%.

Blasters need to work as well at point blank range as scorch works at long range. In other words, no other gun system should even be in the same league as blasters when fighting at extreme close range. Don't like having your face melted off? Then don't close to within 4km of a blaster ship. Problem solved.

T2 ammo is another issue, but T2 short ranged ammo needs to be addressed as well. Right now the damage difference between T2 guns/ammo and T1 guns and faction ammo is extremely small. Too small in fact. T2 ammo needs to have it's penalties removed and it's damage increased by a large margin so that the combination is clearly superior to T1 guns and faction ammo.

As an example, Void should have the tracking penalty removed. The longer optimal and shorter falloff make it unique, as does the higher cap use, but it should have significantly higher base damage than faction antimatter to make up for the higher cap use.

Similar changes need to occur for Conflag and Hail.

Blasters need a lot more tracking and a lot more damage. Not range. We have lasers and ACs for range.

Al'kanree
Posted - 2009.12.15 14:26:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: Al''kanree on 15/12/2009 14:27:48
Edited by: Al''kanree on 15/12/2009 14:26:22
Quote:
Posted - 2009.12.11 13:50:00 - [85] - Quote Report The Hybrid turrets need some love, blasters and railguns. i tried to compare guns with their advantages here, but still much things to be discussed.


Hey guy

The beam as a good tracking ok. But look also the need in capa for that the double of the rail gun.

One weapons is not only dps and tracking but also How it's possible to fit your ship.

In first time you complaining about blaster and now you are in the railgun. It's not exactly the same weapons



Pages: first : previous : 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (26)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only