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Spugg Galdon
Posted - 2010.05.22 07:18:00 - [361]
 

Edited by: Spugg Galdon on 22/05/2010 07:18:49
So boost speed and give blaster boats moar utility? I still think they shouldn't be as agile as minnie ships, just faster straight line speed. Blaster damage also needs to be increased, Within that zone of death vs a blaster boat should be a zone of death.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2010.05.22 07:23:00 - [362]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 22/05/2010 08:30:07
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 22/05/2010 08:29:00
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 22/05/2010 08:04:38
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 22/05/2010 07:26:51
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Ions and 1 mfs? With ganky BCs? It does 700 dps, ffs, at hugging ranges.
Tank matters just as much as gank.



Yeah, keep parroting that, because that will really end up in a massively useful ship. Except:
-In TQ, the best way to lose a solo BC is to get blobbed and die; and bar a skirmish fit, the second best way to deal with this is by having enough DPS to kill it as fast as possible.
-People you fight may actually fit a local tank, and if you cannot break it, you're stuck there doing a "who has more cap boosters" match.
-Unlike EHP and DPS which are useful always, local tank is useful only while you are primary which really matters, even in small gang situations.

Originally by: Goumindong

Quote:
Tbh, I wouldn't agree on armor rigs being a must (passive tanking, yes). For a ship like the Brutix the killer really is the speed penalty

Again, see how it keeps coming down to the speed aspect?

Making them fast and agile will not remove the advantage of skirmish from Minmatar. The advantage of skirmish is to be able to run away and you cannot do that when your effective range is within full tackle(scram/web) range


Except the part where it does since you can no longer get away, and while the lol idea of stuff like Brutixes becoming the new zoom to it and tackle ship doesn't seem to nerf skirmish of another race to you, it sure does seem that way for me. Particularly since you want to do it by tweaking base values based on armor fit and then assuming people are ******ed enough not to fit it with two speed mods+shieldfit+possibly snakes if they're not poor and be able to catch even a damn vagabond every time.

FYI, a shield buffer brutix with 6 lows and a bit more fitting so it doesnt need RCU would already be going 1920m/s heated with OD/nano. That's more then enough to tackle the ships in the same shipclass really quickly (and most non-Minmatar HACs for that matter).

The reasonable change is changing the penalty on armor rep and possibly resist rigs from speed to something irrelevant. Boost base values by a significant amount and yes, of course you break other stuff. Sure such a Brutix would be marginally useful as some sort of semi-capable solo BC and it'd be massively useful for the "look, i brought a turbofast bc sized tackler lolol" crowd.

And of course it can skirmish, it's called railguns (people don't do this because brutix can't exactly fit railguns well, much in the same way it requires fitting mods for a rack of neutrons and anything really). It's not such a novel concept, people are doing it with medium artillery already. With non-******ed fitting and a extra low it'd be actually fairly solid for this.

Oh, and btw, there is one thing the Brutix and similar ships do need to borrow from Minmatar ships, and it's versatility. Currently, you're in a Brutix, a frigate lands on top, either you have ECM drones or you die a painful death. This makes people not want to fly the ship solo so much, because drake/hurricane/harbinger/myrmidon do not have that problem. It's really simple to fix it, too, just give the ship 25m3 more dronebay and a utility high (it lacks slots compared to, eg, Cyclone already so there is no need to take something away somewhere else).

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2010.05.22 07:43:00 - [363]
 

Edited by: The Djego on 22/05/2010 08:13:52
Edited by: The Djego on 22/05/2010 07:43:50
Originally by: Ephemeron
tweaking close range in positive manner would be undoing the Great Nano Nerf. Make webs 90%, remove MWD deactivation for scramble, make ships fast again.

That has worked in the past, then CCP had to **** things up.

Raw damage is a single factor that can be used to manipulate balance in this case. It is the easiest way that would involve least amount of unexpected errors. Alternative balancing requires adjustment of multiple variables, the consequences of which are harder to predict and harder to tune properly.

While I don't doubt that balance can be achieved by adjusting many different factors, I simply find it unnecessary complication. And I don't trust CCP with anything complicated. We gotta keep things as simple as possible for them to get it right.


I to would prefer pre QR stats, even if I flown nearly the hole nano age a plated/trimarked face **** solo BS. It is quite funny that I do use mostly nano setups with ranged dps for exactly the same job this days.

*shrugs*

DPS as a number is as meaningless as blaster pvp this days, there is a reason all "pro" blaster pvp is shown with maximum tank and minimum DPS this days.

Fixing webs for blaster ships is not complicated or leads to game breaking ships, it simply fixes the meta game and gives blaster ships back his niche. I'm not saying it is the only thing that is wrong with it, but it is the thing that gives you back at least a point in the meta game by not being as handy caped as other ship classes at point blank.

Originally by: Ephemeron
Just calculate how long you need to active repair in order to break even with the plate on HP added - forget the cap requirements

1600mm plate: 4200 hp, *1.25 from skill, *1.52 from rigs, total hp bonus: 7980
medium armor repper: 320 hp over 9 sec (after skill), *1.375 hp ship bonus, *1.2 from combat booster, *1.41 from active boost rigs (stacking penalized), you get: 744.48 / 9 sec or 82.72 hp/sec


Without slaves, a active tank will remain nearly the same time on the field as a buffer fit(for non comedy active tanks). In many situations unfortunately this will be true in both ways, meaning that it made no real difference going with buffer or active.

The problem is that it comes at a huge pricetag of weapon range, flexibility with the fittings, speed(trimarks), slots, dps and being more affected by neuts.

With Implants and Combat Boosters it can be effective, but as stand alone on most ships in plain T2 it puts to many drawbacks up in front for something that "might" make a difference in the end.

Originally by: Cpt Branko

But anyway, the rep bonus has nothing at all to do on turret ships which need damage mods to be useful.



This.

localhorse
The Demi-Fallen Ones

Posted - 2010.05.26 11:28:00 - [364]
 


crimson fire
Posted - 2010.05.27 18:25:00 - [365]
 

need love

Belsazzar
Posted - 2010.05.27 18:31:00 - [366]
 


Ryan Starwing
Gallente
Cryptonym Sleepers
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.05.30 13:48:00 - [367]
 

Edited by: Ryan Starwing on 30/05/2010 13:49:12
If ccp fixes hybrids they fix most gallente and caldari gun boats.

Hybrids use both cap and ammo to top it off with a 10 second reload and a fixed damage type. On top of blasters having shortest range in the game and rails having the lowest dps or close to it if they are bonused for damage.

Though blasters do deal 10% more dps, and range bonused rails got more range but are limited by the 250km targeting range which the apoc can match. These strengths are not enough to justify the weaknesses.

PS:Gallente drone boats and Caldari missile boats =/= Gun boats.

tldr:Hybrids suck and need a buff.

Leila Duran
Posted - 2010.05.30 17:40:00 - [368]
 

heal the hybrid.

Sebastian Baseesh
Madhatters Inc.
Posted - 2010.05.30 17:44:00 - [369]
 

As a main gallente driver I'd like to see this evened out.

Jaybird
Gallente
The Scope

Posted - 2010.05.30 22:50:00 - [370]
 

yep.

Aram Solari
Gallente
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.05.31 00:59:00 - [371]
 

Edited by: Aram Solari on 31/05/2010 01:00:38
Agreed.

Blasters AND Hybrids on a whole need work.

Enzu777
Posted - 2010.05.31 01:03:00 - [372]
 

plz as a gallente

Ethos777
Posted - 2010.05.31 01:03:00 - [373]
 

plz as friend of a gallente

Ryan Starwing
Gallente
Cryptonym Sleepers
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.06.01 00:53:00 - [374]
 

Edited by: Ryan Starwing on 01/06/2010 00:54:02
Come on people we need to keep this thread on the 1st page so maby ccp will see it and do some math and figure out that blasters/rails are underpowered and offer nothing over the other weapon systems except 10% more dps/range with all the down sides that the other turret systems have with lowest range/dps.

Qui Chen
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.01 06:46:00 - [375]
 

+1

Presbyter
Posted - 2010.06.01 13:21:00 - [376]
 

+1

CrashOveride
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.06.05 07:38:00 - [377]
 


lets face it.. with the combination of 0 range, 60% webs, and speed nerfs.. blasters are a thing of the past. Fit projectiles like everyone else and win with alpha. Not like like any of it matters in pvpppppp anyway. lock fast and high alpha. minnys win.

z0de
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2010.06.05 13:20:00 - [378]
 


True Trade
Posted - 2010.06.05 13:24:00 - [379]
 

Hear our collective cry! CCP AT LEAST TELL US WE HAVE BEEN HEARD!

WittyName Here
Posted - 2010.06.05 14:58:00 - [380]
 

Supported

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2010.06.13 09:53:00 - [381]
 

Edited by: The Djego on 13/06/2010 09:53:35
Bumpski

Still waiting for the day CCP puts back solo into solo blaster pvp...

Terios Corvalis
Gallente
HUN Corp.
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2010.06.15 10:42:00 - [382]
 

Edited by: Terios Corvalis on 15/06/2010 10:55:34
Edited by: Terios Corvalis on 15/06/2010 10:45:58
Instead of boosting blasters I'm saying it's a good thing that weapon systems for different races has advantages/disadvantages like dps, ROF, falloff, optimal. This game would be pretty boring if only the name and the damage type would be different for all races.

Clearly you need the balance these weapon systems tho. Instead of boosting the falloff and optimal of blasters, I think the ship platforms themselves should be changed. For example the typical blaster ship hulls like thorax, brutix, megathron and hyperion and their T2/faction variants should get a 25% base speed bonus, so you still need to get within point blank range to cause a lot of damage, but with a faster ship U would have the chance to do it.

Nowadays it's really not a wise thing to pick up a fight for an astarte with a sleipnir, because U wont stand a chance to get in range in time. The same applies for fleet fights, for example 10 cyclones would simply **** 10 brutixes in no time because the brutixes would spend the most of their time by chasing down their targets instead of shooting them.

It's pretty abnormal that I have to use ACs on gallente ships, since they're better even without the ship bonuses.

BFish
Gallente
Bushwhackers
Rough Necks
Posted - 2010.06.17 05:17:00 - [383]
 

As a butthurt Gallente pilot I am definitely inclined to agree with this argument.

Supported

Joshmanus
Gallente
Toy Makers
Posted - 2010.06.17 11:07:00 - [384]
 

Would be cool if T2 ammo buffed trackingspeed & falloff instead of nerfing it, that would solve quite a few problems id assume.

Aram Yong
Gallente
University of Caille

Posted - 2010.06.19 08:45:00 - [385]
 

Back to the top.

I noticed this description on my Neutron Blaster II today.

"No other turret class can match the sheer destructive power of particle blasters"

Oh really?

Autocannon and Pulse Laser equivalents blow the above away and still have SUPERIOR range.

Mihali
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.19 11:47:00 - [386]
 

Think the Gallente have been nerfed long enough. Before the speed nerf, people feared our blaster boats, now it's just lolblasters.

Ryan Starwing
Gallente
Cryptonym Sleepers
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.06.20 22:43:00 - [387]
 

Edited by: Ryan Starwing on 20/06/2010 22:49:42
Edited by: Ryan Starwing on 20/06/2010 22:49:01
bump

Blasters are made to be the weapon made for landing on the person at 0 and melting them before they can say oh ****. That is the blasters role, be at point blank and melt everything within the zone of death.

PS:Cross training to amarr more range more eph 10-15% less dps but true dps applied at optimal is seems to be the same.

Syekuda
Hell's Revenge

Posted - 2010.06.20 22:59:00 - [388]
 

I have to admit, blasters have ridiculous range compared their damage. like op says, more damage or more range. but giving the "role" of the blasters I would go with 25/75 on range/damage if you ask me. More damage is the way to go imo.

supported

Kvo Vadis
Posted - 2010.06.20 23:25:00 - [389]
 

Change Gallente boats damage bonus from 5% to 7.5% (Like Vindicator has)
It will solve several problems:
1. Quick temporary solution. CCP do not have much time for fine tuning Gallenete race.
2. It will boost hybrid weapon of Gallente ships but not Caldari (Actually Caldari have optimal bonus for all hybrid weapon ships)
3. This boost will not change Gallente tactics as extremely close range fighters.

P.S. For those who say "It will not solve the problem of applying DPS" read item "1"
P.S.S Cross training to Minmatar ships. They are very good for PVP: CAP independent weapon, fast ships, have slots for neutralizers, selectable damage type, very good range due to falloff, tiny Auto Cannon PG requirements YARRRR!!

Psycho symbiosis
Blue Sun.
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2010.06.21 07:20:00 - [390]
 

support


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