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Xahara
StarFleet Enterprises
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.10.25 13:23:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Xahara on 30/04/2010 22:10:45
So, for the over 9000th time, I'm going to complain about how blasters need to be boosted.

For their current damage output, they do not have enough range to be effective. They're supposed to be a "cross" between pulse lasers and autocannons, therefore, their optimal and falloff should be a bit higher than 0kms (ok, I'm exagerating, but you get my point).

This makes blaster boats highly inneffective in combat, such as the Deimos, for example. I've stopped flying them for PVP completely, because they just get slaughtered (mainly because of the fact that it is indeed a crappy ship overall). And, on that note, I'd choose a Vagabond over a Deimos anyday to PVP in, or even a Zealot.

But anyways, the Deimos isn't the subject of this post. The fact that you can hit up to 45km with Pulse Lasers and Scorch ammo (and still do a lot of damage) is pretty overpowered compared to the not-so-powerful-anymore, range-defficient blasters.

Currently, Gallente ships are a very hard choice for large fleet engagements, since blasters don't hit far enough, thus forcing us to use failguns instead (see what I did there?). Let me put some ratio numbers in here:


Gun Type - DPS (Dmg Mod X Hi Dmg Ammo / ROF) - Optimal + Falloff - Ratio [DPS X (Optimal + Falloff)]

Neutron Blaster Cannon II - 4.2 X 48 / 7.88 - 3,600 + 10,000 - 347,939
800mm Repeating Artillery - 3.234 X 48 / 7.88 - 2,400 + 19,000 - 421,569
Mega Pulse Laser II - 3.6 X 48 / 7.88 - 12,000 + 8,000 - 0.03375 - 438,578

425mm Railgun II - 3.3 X 48 / 9.56 - 28,500 + 24,000 - 869,874
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II - 12.807 X 48 / 40.16 - 24,000 + 35,000 - 903,123
Tachyon Beam Laser II - 5.4 X 48 / 12.50 - 26,000 + 20,000 - 953,856


Solution: Either increase blasters' damage to match their ridiculous range or increase their ridiculous range to match their damage.

I feel like I've covered most of the aspects in this post, so, support (or flame) away!

EDIT: Moar Numberz.

Juliette DuBois
Posted - 2009.10.25 13:42:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Juliette DuBois on 25/10/2009 13:43:26
If you increase range you crowd out autocannons completely (in BS level this is actually already true). Damage increase at point blank, maybe but itīs more like lasers doing too much real dps. Wink

You could increase speed but not agility of blaster boats, allowing them to close on targets bit faster. Maybe.

Xahara
StarFleet Enterprises
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.10.25 13:49:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Juliette DuBois
Edited by: Juliette DuBois on 25/10/2009 13:43:26
If you increase range you crowd out autocannons completely (in BS level this is actually already true). Damage increase at point blank, maybe but itīs more like lasers doing too much real dps. Wink

You could increase speed but not agility of blaster boats, allowing them to close on targets bit faster. Maybe.



I agree with your post, but Autocannons are getting boosted in Dominion :) Now, I don't know how that's gonna turn out, but yes, I think that to Lasers (and even ACs, regarding the falloff) they are underpowered. And yes, increasing speed would be an awesome solution to this problem. Thank you for your feedback!

Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us

Posted - 2009.10.25 16:40:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Xahara
I agree with your post, but Autocannons are getting boosted in Dominion :) Now, I don't know how that's gonna turn out, but yes, I think that to Lasers (and even ACs, regarding the falloff) they are underpowered. And yes, increasing speed would be an awesome solution to this problem. Thank you for your feedback!


But what about Caldari ships? I know their intended for use with railguns, but their bonuses also apply to blasters. I think a boost to optimal is the easiest solution, allthough that would be against the filosophy of blasters. Increased tracking and damage would be more in line with the intended function of blasters.

Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2009.10.25 17:32:00 - [5]
 

Quote:
Solution: Either increase blasters' damage to match their ridiculous range or increase their ridiculous range to match their damage.


Absolutly true.

The recent changes to the Vigilant (+60% hybrid damage) and how great it works shows us what the blasters should really be. They need to do more damage (20-25% more), keep the current range.

About the Deimos, it needs to have a definite purpose. Right now, it is absolutly worthless with blasters, a Brutix is a dozen times cheaper to lose and does exactly the same thing. I suggest giving the Deimos even more damage or more speed or more range, but something to make it worth flying over a Brutix.

Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
POD-SQUAD
Posted - 2009.10.25 18:25:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Maxsim Goratiev on 25/10/2009 18:26:21
Medium blasters have embarrassing range. Large blasters aren't as bad.
PS: i don't like when i sit at point blank range next to a webbed amarr ship, and it does nearly as much damage with lasers.
An Armageddon with 7 mega pulse laser 2's, 5 t2 ogres and 3 damage mods deals ~1150 dps with all skills at lvl 5, and higher damage ammo type.
Megathron with 7 neutron blaster cannons 2 and 5 t2 ogres deals 1200 damage with 3 damge mods and void ammo..
Range of mega (optimal+falloff) is 27km, range of geddon is 55 km.. that
is with long-range ammunition.
With Armogeddon having 2 times grater range, this is not right.


Anna Kommenos
Posted - 2009.10.26 01:10:00 - [7]
 

so nerf amarr pulse dps, or start fitting them on your megathrons and deimioi


extending hybrid range woulf effectively make them pulse lasers with expendable ammo, which would then result in the inevitable whine of "why do ammar get no ammo usage? blasters should have that too!"

the problem aint the blaster being underpowered, as its meant to be short range and v.high dps. the problem is the pulse being overpowered....if infact there is a problem, i cba researchign it myself.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2009.10.26 12:01:00 - [8]
 

Maybe if we all start fitting brutix and deimos with lasers CCP will listen.

Rico Minali
Gallente
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2009.10.26 12:06:00 - [9]
 

Agreed, blasters are a bit pants.

Put up the damage and particularly tracking and they are fine. They are pretty much intended for fighting at 0, so make it work...

Crotch Goblin
Posted - 2009.10.26 14:44:00 - [10]
 

Easy fix, give us back 90% webs and don't listen to the idiots that can't grasp the concept of staying out of web range. I still can't believe CCP gave in to all you whiny pilots crying about getting ****d because you went into web range.

Nestor Laurenitis
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2009.10.26 17:16:00 - [11]
 

Confirming I want to hit people harder.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2009.10.26 18:06:00 - [12]
 

Oh noes my short-range weapon is short-ranged!
The problem is lasers, and Scorch in particular.

It's always better to nerf than to boost, it avoids power creep and creates entertaining whine threads.

Xahara
StarFleet Enterprises
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.10.26 21:32:00 - [13]
 

Lots of great ideas here! Keep posting guys! :) Lets hope CCP listens to our whines :)

Stil Harkonnen
Posted - 2009.10.26 22:54:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Oh noes my short-range weapon is short-ranged!
The problem is lasers, and Scorch in particular.

It's always better to nerf than to boost, it avoids power creep and creates entertaining whine threads.



oh noes my short ranged weapon is in many cases out damaged by long range weapons which are supposed to be short range weapons.

of course we're whining to get boosted....

Fantom Lancer
Posted - 2009.10.27 04:10:00 - [15]
 

up!

Ablack77
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2009.10.27 06:38:00 - [16]
 

Agreed

/supported

Zadook Nanoo
Posted - 2009.10.27 06:39:00 - [17]
 

/support

eliminator2
Gallente
Vindicated Blast.
Posted - 2009.10.27 08:51:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Maxsim Goratiev
Edited by: Maxsim Goratiev on 25/10/2009 18:26:21
Medium blasters have embarrassing range. Large blasters aren't as bad.
PS: i don't like when i sit at point blank range next to a webbed amarr ship, and it does nearly as much damage with lasers.
An Armageddon with 7 mega pulse laser 2's, 5 t2 ogres and 3 damage mods deals ~1150 dps with all skills at lvl 5, and higher damage ammo type.
Megathron with 7 neutron blaster cannons 2 and 5 t2 ogres deals 1200 damage with 3 damge mods and void ammo..
Range of mega (optimal+falloff) is 27km, range of geddon is 55 km.. that
is with long-range ammunition.
With Armogeddon having 2 times grater range, this is not right.




ever tryed ORBITING your oponent instead of sat at 0km not moving

pHenomena1337
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2009.10.27 10:57:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: pHenomena1337 on 27/10/2009 10:57:27
Supported

Moar damage at the same range should be fine.

Edit: Large blasters are okay.

Alexis Zalman
Posted - 2009.10.27 14:22:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Alexis Zalman on 27/10/2009 14:21:54
Originally by: pHenomena1337

Moar damage at the same range should be fine.

Edit: Large blasters are okay.

No, they are not. Pulse geddons/baddons can shoot poses, blaster battleships can't.
10 optimal/17 falloff w/AM L, 20 optimal/30 falloff with null will bea lot closer to lasers, which still get 45 optimal with T2 range ammo AND better tracking.
Large blasters useless for anything but solo. And such changes will not make them any better at it, just make them an option for fleets.

And deimos has been dead for a long time, just get a zealot...

Xahara
StarFleet Enterprises
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2009.10.30 15:15:00 - [21]
 

Keep the feedback coming, guys! :)

Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
POD-SQUAD
Posted - 2009.10.30 18:19:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Maxsim Goratiev on 30/10/2009 18:19:45
Blasters can barely outDPS pulses, and they have massively shorter range. That is not right.

IIIAsharakIII
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2009.10.30 20:06:00 - [23]
 

Move blasters to the highest tracking position. Leave pulses as they are, maybe lower tracking a little due to their range bonus. This will give gallente blaster boats a "uniqueness" to them which will also make them deadly. They still have to climb up to within 5km range, but from there on in, blasters should be king.

Neliel Soifon
Posted - 2009.10.30 21:44:00 - [24]
 

Agreed, pulse are awsome, they got tracking, range and damage.
Blasters are simply not powerfull enough for their extremely short range: either boost the damage output or increase the range.

HairySack Hangin
Posted - 2009.10.31 00:22:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Crotch Goblin
Easy fix, give us back 90% webs and don't listen to the idiots that can't grasp the concept of staying out of web range. I still can't believe CCP gave in to all you whiny pilots crying about getting ****d because you went into web range.


I agree wholly with this guy.
Make webs useful again. Currently even a rapier/huginn has to throw multiple webs on a target just to begin slowing them down.
If I decloak my rapier (with max skills) at 10km from an inty and it immediately MWDs away, by the time I lock and throw my webs on it the ship is already at 40km and if I overheat it can still coast beyond maximum range of even faction webs before they begin to slow appreciably.

Blasters, now... their tracking could definitely use a boost to make fighting at point blank with one suicide (even for a frig v/ bs), but leave their range alone.

Maleficent's Heart
Garoun Investment Bank

Posted - 2009.10.31 09:11:00 - [26]
 

/support

Kain Lemaire
Posted - 2009.10.31 09:57:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Kain Lemaire on 31/10/2009 09:57:21
Originally by: Xahara


Solution: Either increase blasters' damage to match their ridiculous range or increase their ridiculous range to match their damage.





/support

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions

Posted - 2009.10.31 10:20:00 - [28]
 

I would prefer more damage than more range.

But yeah, atm, blasters need a boost really bad.

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2009.10.31 11:18:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 31/10/2009 11:20:08
Originally by: eliminator2
Originally by: Maxsim Goratiev
Edited by: Maxsim Goratiev on 25/10/2009 18:26:21
Medium blasters have embarrassing range. Large blasters aren't as bad.
PS: i don't like when i sit at point blank range next to a webbed amarr ship, and it does nearly as much damage with lasers.
An Armageddon with 7 mega pulse laser 2's, 5 t2 ogres and 3 damage mods deals ~1150 dps with all skills at lvl 5, and higher damage ammo type.
Megathron with 7 neutron blaster cannons 2 and 5 t2 ogres deals 1200 damage with 3 damge mods and void ammo..
Range of mega (optimal+falloff) is 27km, range of geddon is 55 km.. that
is with long-range ammunition.
With Armogeddon having 2 times grater range, this is not right.




ever tryed ORBITING your oponent instead of sat at 0km not moving


You Noob , its the only way to use blasters efficiently atm. Try orbiting something within blasters optimal then speak again .
And no your frigate orbiting BS doesnt count.

Blasters Needs a buff badly , their dps(on paper) output is not even close to compensate for their pathetic range and inability to properly track targets in their optimal. While with large blasters issue isnt that great , small and medium are broken badly.

I suggest : Their range should stay the same but

- increase their dps or
- increase tracking or
- bring back 90% web with slightly tracking increse or
- nerf lazors


Good Advice
Posted - 2009.10.31 14:25:00 - [30]
 

I'd say that blasters need to be changed entirely and give something new to the gun field. Currently, Lasers have their niche, Projectiles are getting reworked to allow for some nice damage switching, but blasters work just like lasers, just worse.

Changes to Blasters:
Rewrite description to say they are a high damage weapon that has difficulty hitting at anything but close range.

Increase damage by 50%
Increase tracking by 300%
Reduce optimal to 1
Tweak falloff to slightly less
Change +optimal modifiers on ammo to +falloff

Now, blasters do incredible damage at close range, but have difficutly hitting anything and damage decreases with every km of range. It turns blaster ships into close range death dealers that suck for anything past 5km or so. I'm ok with that.


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