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Zhellix Chun
Posted - 2009.10.24 14:36:00 - [1]
 

I mostly PvE, maingly because my skills are generally pretty crappy being as I am still skilling up this character. I can run 3's fine with either a Harbinger, a Hurricane, a Drake or a Myrmidon (Yes I know I am wierd for crosstraining so much so fast) as I cannot decide what I want to jump into BS wise for L4's and running L4's while possible in a drake or a Myrmidon takes so much more time it seems less efficient than chain running L3's for ISK.

So, I have been doing a fair amount of research on battle clinic etc, and I am wondering why is there such a focus on cap boosters for PvE ships for level 4's? I dislike filling up my cargo hold with cap boosters when I need to hold ammo as well (unless of course firing pewpew lasers). Let alone what happens should you actually run out of boosters in the middle of a bad place.

So, is there any such thing as a decent starting BS for L4's that doesn't use cap boosters and is cap stable? If so, what would they and the fitting be? There's a lot of odd fits on Battle Clinic for example, or obviously pvp ships marked for PvE. So assuming I won't be really PvP'ing for a while (read a few months at minimum) and in PvP I am likely going to focus on BC sized anyways (As I doubt I'll have the skills to make running a BS worthwhile by then), assuming all of this:

What would be ideal starter L4 BS's and their fittings? Note: This means starting, not something with all faction/plex/T2, if such a thing is possible.

Junko Togawa
Caldari
Posted - 2009.10.24 14:43:00 - [2]
 

Dominix has the advantage of being very versatile in its use, both for PvE and PvP, and a pretty forgiving choice. Personally I stick to missile boats for simplicity.

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.10.24 14:44:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Terianna Eri on 24/10/2009 14:43:57
Too lazy to give you a starter BS fit but I'll answer your questions:

Cap Booster: Fitting a cap booster basically lets you power anything you care to name with a single module, which means you don't have to spend any slots on other cap mods. This, in turn, lets you fit more modules that help you deal damage or take less damage, which means you kill things faster, so you don't need to run the tank as much, so you go through cap boosters relatively slowly. Even when I used a Maelstrom with T1 guns (briefly), most missions I hardly had to touch the cap booster since the rest of my modules were doing their jobs so well, and I could pulse the shield booster off of the ship's natural cap recharge most of the time.

Also, if you don't loot missions (I didn't until I got a Marauder, since it took so long and was so tedious, and even now I only loot because I'm wreck balling for salvaging so I might as well empty the wrecks), you don't miss the cargohold space.

Are there ships that don't use cap boosters and are cap stable:
Cap stability is terribly overrated. With a decent damage output most missions won't last longer than 15-20 minutes (ish), and the amount of time where you're actually being fired upon by enough ships to warrant turning on the tank is quite low. Also, the incoming DPS decreases with time since the NPCs will be dying.

That said, you can, if you really want to, make a cap-stable mission BS. The two that come to mind are an apocalypse with 3-4 cap rechargers in the mids and a single rep (because the apoc has awesome cap), and a raven hull running 2x small deadspace shield boosters.
EDIT: Forgot about the dominix Mad

Zhellix Chun
Posted - 2009.10.24 14:55:00 - [4]
 

Thanks for the information, I personally am mostly having a hard choice between the Abaddon, Raven, Maelstrom and Megathron. I suppose I should have added that to my original posting but wanted to get a feel without bias from people.

As for the Domi, I dislike drone boats because I find them horribly boring most of the time (Which is why I am not flying my Myrmidon now even though it has a massive tank) and instead am flying an active drake (Yes I know, shame on me, but I prefer having more Gank with just enough Tank to survive the missions).

I have given some thought to the Maelstrom, as I really like the idea of being able to swap damage to fit the rats (Which is also why I like missile boats) but with the coming changes, I am not sure if I should be focussing on AC's or Artillery.

Anyways, question still stands, if any are willing, to post up some starter level 4 BS fits with their BS of choice (Or even link me to a battle clinic loadout I missed). I have the ability to use T2 drones, but not heavies yet (which is another reason I've been avoiding the Dominix).

Tomarrion Altor
Amarr
Special Operations Corp
Mortal Destruction
Posted - 2009.10.24 15:17:00 - [5]
 

I usually did that in an apocalypse. Fill the highs with pulse lasers, cap rechargers and a tracking comp in med slots.

The lows...since you said its a starting fit, I would put just one gank module and dedicate the rest slots for tank. So you have DCII, LAR and 4 more slots for mission specific hardeners..which should be WAY more than enough if you want to be on the safe side. However 2 gank modules and 3 hardeners should also be enough...

Your guns should take care of all the cruisers and BSs, use drones for frigates. If range is a problem you can put tracking enhancer instead of one hardener and range rig.

Torn Slightly
Minmatar
Nephite Rangers
Zero Hour Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.24 15:26:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Torn Slightly on 24/10/2009 15:41:45
Edited by: Torn Slightly on 24/10/2009 15:27:18
Edited by: Torn Slightly on 24/10/2009 15:26:54
Myrmidon is not a good comparison to a dominix - it has no damage bonus and cannot hit close to the dps of a domi.

I usually run two accounts to mission with.

Missions are much more fun when you have things to do. Therefore fitting for gank and managing cap is more interesting and a lot faster.

Below are 2 domi fittings and a raven. The raven has less dps (510 with hammerhead 2's)

This fit with my skills is over 700 dps at about 40km with garde II's (More when using antimatter)

It is not even close to cap stable. I burst the repper as needed.

Most everything melts fast. Just watch out for the heavy dps missions where the npc's start close.

Edit:
2nd domi fitting updated.
Everything runs on both domi set-ups for about 3 minutes and tank about 370dps gurista.

Raven will run until cap charges run out, or about 1m 50 with out the cap charger on.

[Dominix, Sentry]
Large Armor Repairer II
Power Diagnostic System II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

350mm Railgun II, Uranium Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Uranium Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Uranium Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Uranium Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Uranium Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
[empty rig slot]


Ogre II x5
Garde II x5


This is easier to fit. Replace the painter and a mag stab if you want to be cap stable.

[Dominix, Sentry 250]
Large Armor Repairer II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Cap Recharger II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Dual 250mm Railgun II, Iridium Charge L
Dual 250mm Railgun II, Iridium Charge L
Dual 250mm Railgun II, Iridium Charge L
Dual 250mm Railgun II, Iridium Charge L
Dual 250mm Railgun II, Iridium Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
[empty rig slot]


Ogre II x5
Garde II x5

[Raven, Mission]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II

X-Large Shield Booster II
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hammerhead II x5


Zhellix Chun
Posted - 2009.10.24 15:38:00 - [7]
 

Aha! See now that's what I needed! I was thinking that a Dominix was just primarily a drone boat, where the drones did most of the damage themselves. The only thing that sucks about the Dominix route is having to learn heavies to T2, that's going to suck up a lot of time.

The Raven was what I was leaning towards simply towards efficiency standpoint. Raven isn't -quite- as ugly to look at as an Apoc or a Domi though...

What about a Megathron? PVE mostly in minmatar space? Any solid fits for a newbie jumping into BS's?

Torn Slightly
Minmatar
Nephite Rangers
Zero Hour Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.24 15:55:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Torn Slightly on 24/10/2009 15:59:45
I don't use the heavies (they were in eft for comparison for me :)

My drone bay usually has bouncer 2's or wardens 2's and garde 2's (Training sentry drones 5 allows the use of all the t2 sentries as opposed to the heavies having to train each specialization to 4).

I much prefer sentries for missions.

I have never flown a mega. It is easier to tailor drone damage to the npc type, where as the hybrids are stuck (Guns are a nice bonus on a domi ;).

The domi and raven work pretty well whatever opponent you are fighting due to having flexible damage types. As I fly both in the same mission and micro manage, I can't say how boring they would be to fly separately (If they are dull, might want to mission with others in your corp for more fun).

The raven is easier to fly. You don't have to manage drone aggro much (A couple of missions are a pain for that). Sentries are much easier to pull in though if they do get aggro.

Both ships need decent skills to get the best out of - missile and shield skills on the raven, and drone, gunnery and armor skills for the domi.

I like watching missiles fly at the opponent ;)

The domi takes down everything, but bs's faster. BS's are about even (Domi may have to switch sentries and ammo depending on spawn groups distance changing).

The raven is my secondary ship. I picked it as it was easy to manage along with my drone boat.

I'll leave it up to others with experience to comment on the other choices.

I used to mission in mini space, currently in gallente for the LP.

The domi is ugly unfortunately :(

One other thing that may sway your decision.

The sentry domi is like a fortress, it doesn't really move much as you need to be close to scoop up your stationary sentries.

The raven is a mobile platform (missiles + light and medium drones).

I like both :)

Von Kapiche
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.24 16:05:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Von Kapiche on 24/10/2009 16:06:05
Cap booster + CCC rigs is overkill; rigor rigs on that Raven will do wonders for your killtime for anything smaller than a BS. A cap booster setup can't really be called cap-stable, you run out of boosters eventually... I fly that setup on an alt, I hate the thing but it's reasonably effective with middling skills.

OP: I don't know why you want cap stable, eventually you'll only have a couple of ships shooting at you in a room but your ship will still be repping away as if the entire room was still there. It's quite easy to fit a Dominix to be cap stable with the guns off, but ~5 mins of cap life shooting antimatter, would that be a reasonable compromise? 60% or so of a Domi's damage comes from it's drones. Something along the lines of one of those posted here would make a good starting base, and check out the other hundred or so Domi fitting threads.

Pros: everything uses drones, domi is versatile and cheap, grows with skills well.
Cons: takes a lot of SP to work well. Uses rails ;)

Torn Slightly
Minmatar
Nephite Rangers
Zero Hour Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.24 16:15:00 - [10]
 

Spot on about the rigor rigs. Only reason I still have the ccc's are there were none in my area until yesterday and those are way overpriced. It hasn't been an issue mostly due to my domi taking out small things very quickly

Good advice from Von Kapiche.


 

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