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Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2009.10.23 18:56:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Mutnin on 23/10/2009 18:58:37

Grrr I need to vent...

This guy is a pre-dual remap toon and I've been holding off using his one neutral remap, because he has decent Int/Mem skills and I want to go with a full Perc/will remap when I do it.

I've been getting those pesky needed support skills out of the way and it seemed before I was only 2 months away from my planned remap. Now dammit if I'm still not 2 months away from my planned remap.

After I remap, that's when I get to start training the fun stuff, but dammit to hell, I swear skill training bites my ***.. Evil or Very Mad

Estel Arador
Posted - 2009.10.23 19:37:00 - [2]
 

Simple solution: forget about min/maxing and remap now.

Alt Tabbed
Posted - 2009.10.23 20:03:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Estel Arador
Simple solution: forget about min/maxing and remap now.



Blasphemy....BURN THE WITCH BURN HIM BURN HIM


You must ONLY train skills which you're currently maxed in...NEVER allow yourself to be brought down to the level of the common village PEASANT by training outside your STRICT CAST training regime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




ohhh and QQ that EACS is closed....

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2009.10.23 20:05:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Estel Arador
Simple solution: forget about min/maxing and remap now.


Na, man they are skills I need now. The bulk of them are my Armor Compensation skills up to level V's. At my current attributes they are each about 8 days in training time. If I do them after I remap, it would add 2 days to each and be like adding a 5th comp skill.

That and I need to finish off my rank 1 Perc/will learning skills to level V. Then there are a few other odds and in's that I really need to get done and it would be stupid to remap before I do it. Just sucks is all.. Crying or Very sad


amdul kabar
Posted - 2009.10.23 21:07:00 - [5]
 

I wasted a remap of Perc/will early on and had to switch to Mem/Int. I just decided to queue a year worth of non-gunnery/spaceship skills. There's the small and medium turret here and there, but the training time for Per/Will skills during that one year period is less than a month.

Elora Danzik
Caldari
Idiots In Spaceships
Dead Terrorists
Posted - 2009.10.23 21:10:00 - [6]
 

Get EVEmon if you don't have it.

Plan EVERYTHING you want to train ATM.

Then ask it to optimize. It will tell you how your remapped skill should look to shorten training time.

My current suggested remap saves a month of training a years worth of skills.

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2009.10.23 22:19:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: amdul kabar
I wasted a remap of Perc/will early on and had to switch to Mem/Int. I just decided to queue a year worth of non-gunnery/spaceship skills. There's the small and medium turret here and there, but the training time for Per/Will skills during that one year period is less than a month.


Well unless you just care bear all day there is much more than 1 month of perc/will skills. Now of course the first year there is likely much more Int/mem. Still at min there is 2 to 3 months needed in the first year to be competitive at PVP.



amdul kabar
Posted - 2009.10.23 22:58:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Mutnin
Originally by: amdul kabar
I wasted a remap of Perc/will early on and had to switch to Mem/Int. I just decided to queue a year worth of non-gunnery/spaceship skills. There's the small and medium turret here and there, but the training time for Per/Will skills during that one year period is less than a month.


Well unless you just care bear all day there is much more than 1 month of perc/will skills. Now of course the first year there is likely much more Int/mem. Still at min there is 2 to 3 months needed in the first year to be competitive at PVP.





I am not sure what you have in mind as essential PvP skills, but I have already trained some gunnery and spaceship skills before I made the second remap. It's not alot, but at the same time the support skills I am training for is just as relevant for combat, it's not as if I am training mining and research skills to fill in the gap.

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2009.10.23 23:50:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Mutnin on 23/10/2009 23:50:32
Originally by: amdul kabar

I am not sure what you have in mind as essential PvP skills, but I have already trained some gunnery and spaceship skills before I made the second remap. It's not alot, but at the same time the support skills I am training for is just as relevant for combat, it's not as if I am training mining and research skills to fill in the gap.


Well what I did with a new alt I'm training, was to train up my learning skills to 4's during the 100% bonus at the original mapping. I then trained my Gunnery support skills to 4's and trained for T2 Med guns.

I also trained some basic missile skills to 3's and 4's. Trained frig 5, Cruiser 4 and BC 4. This took about 2 1/2 months or so.

I then did my first remap which is a full Int/Mem and started knocking out all the basic support skills. The alt just hit 8 mil SP's and he's starting to come together pretty well and is a awesome Rifter pilot.

Together that's about 4 mil of his 8 mil that are Perc/Will skills that I needed to do before going full Int/Mem.

By doing it that way I can now leave him on a 4 to 5 month Int/Mem plan that still lets me fly some decent ships in the meantime so I'm not too bored with him. After that I still have my second remap that I can go full Perc/Will.

In less than a year he will probably be speced out better than my current toon as the new one is training @ 2,5k sp's and hour compared to 2k with my main.


Estel Arador
Posted - 2009.10.24 13:04:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Mutnin
Na, man they are skills I need now. The bulk of them are my Armor Compensation skills up to level V's.


That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You never need Compensation skills to V now. They're something you train when you've got nothing else to train. You'd be far better off training some damage increasing skill or something (except for that you'd "have to" remap, of course).

Helene Troi
Gallente
Crimson Umbra
Posted - 2009.10.24 13:17:00 - [11]
 

I must admit committing to whole year of training just guns, missiles and ships was daunting at first but now I'm set on my path I find it rather liberating...

@ op... you've no reason to vent atm, that comes later when you realise you forgot something...

Shocked

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2009.10.24 15:12:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Estel Arador
Originally by: Mutnin
Na, man they are skills I need now. The bulk of them are my Armor Compensation skills up to level V's.


That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You never need Compensation skills to V now. They're something you train when you've got nothing else to train. You'd be far better off training some damage increasing skill or something (except for that you'd "have to" remap, of course).


If you do large gang battles where getting called primary means over whelming DPS and death regardless of what your skills are then yes I could maybe agree with you. I solo most of the time and when soloing you are up against the odds or in fights that can be very close.

Having a little extra resist on my ship can make the difference in winning or losing in a close fight. That's something I'm willing to put the time in training for, because for me tank is just as important as damage.

All I mention was it sucks having to put that time in sometimes. Remember we each play our own games, what you might not feel is important for your playing style might be very imorant for mine. YARRRR!!

Estel Arador
Posted - 2009.10.24 20:34:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Mutnin
Remember we each play our own games, what you might not feel is important for your playing style might be very imorant for mine.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that playing styles are relevant. Simple maths dictate that training the 'worst' damage increasing skill from IV to V is better than training all compensation skills from IV to V.

You claim that "Having a little extra resist on my ship can make the difference in winning or losing in a close fight.". What determines winning or losing a fight is the total damage (it takes x amount of damage to kill your opponent, and that damage needs to be done before he gets you), determined by battle duration and DPS. Increasing resists increases the duration and increasing damage increases DPS

The following chart shows the effects on total damage by training all compensation skills from IV to V (4x rank 2) or one weapon specialization skill from IV to V (1x rank 8).

Duration DPS Total Damage
EANM II 100,78 100 10078
Energized Plating II 101,98 100 10198
Damage skill 100 101,85 10185


As you can see training the compensation skills is worse than the damage skill if you use an EANM and better if you use Energized Plating. However, that assumes you receive no damage at all in types you haven't tanked for. If you receive just 7% of your damage in an untanked type, you're already worse off than training the damage skill.

That's why I said you shouldn't train the compensation skills to V until you have no other usefull skills to train.


 

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