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Washell Olivaw
Posted - 2009.10.23 22:01:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 23/10/2009 22:08:09
Originally by: Shoukei
It appears that the best arguments fan boys managed to come up with so far is... "Well, its as fast as XP and not as bad as Vista!" Then they ran off to buy a "new" version because some piece of software was intentionally prevented from working on the "old" one Rolling Eyes


Proper argument: The 64bit version of Windows XP was never aimed at the home user. Between Microsoft then not pushing for drivers for consumer hardware and currently phasing out XP all together a home user using XP/64 to run his games and software typically experiences an unstable system. Vista shipped in a 32bit and 64 bit version, but Microsoft was pushing this time and companies needed to make new drivers for Vista anyway. At the same time consumers started getting some benefit from it because home computers started shipping with 3+ GB, requiring a 64bit OS to fully utilize. Windows 7 ships with both the 32bit and the 64bit version in a single package. Both Vista and Windows 7 are significantly more stable in a 64 bit environment compared to XP.

So if you want 64 bit and/or 3+ GB of memory, XP isn't the first choice.

Originally by: brutoid

'XP Mode consists of the Virtual PC-based virtual environment and a fully licensed copy of Windows XP with Service Pack 3 (SP3). It will be made available, for free, to users of Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise, and Ultimate editions via a download from the Microsoft web site.


Virtual PC has no support for 3D hardware acceleration. It'll run the old accounting program the department refuses to let go but it's incapable of running any type of demanding game.

brutoid
Caldari
Posted - 2009.10.23 22:19:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Washell Olivaw

Virtual PC has no support for 3D hardware acceleration. It'll run the old accounting program the department refuses to let go but it's incapable of running any type of demanding game.


Why would anyone want to run 3D non-natively anyway? Use virtualbox or vmware if one wants 3d acceleration. I was just letting people know that you essentially get XP SP3 for free if you buy Windows 7. Everyones a winner! Very Happy

Saint Lazarus
Pwn 'N Play
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.23 23:11:00 - [63]
 

All this windows XP v Vista/7 needs to stop!




because Google Chrome OS is out next year and after a few releases and upgrades we just need overwhelming demand to bring back a Linux EvE that can run on it (who'd rather time spent making this rather than Dx11 support?).


Then all the windows lovers can bicker amongst themselves :D

heres hoping by 2012(little too hopeful but im a dreamer) its a reality

Washell Olivaw
Posted - 2009.10.23 23:34:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 23/10/2009 23:51:23
Originally by: Saint Lazarus
because Google Chrome OS is out next year and after a few releases and upgrades we just need overwhelming demand to bring back a Linux EvE that can run on it


"x" linux distribution is out next "y" and then windows will finally be beaten on the desktop market is something I've been hearing for over a decade.

Here's what google says: Google Chrome OS is being created for people who spend most of their time on the web, and is being designed to power computers ranging from small netbooks to full-size desktop systems.

Running games, fraps, video editors, etc isn't "spending most of your time on the web"

Saint Lazarus
Pwn 'N Play
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.24 00:19:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Washell Olivaw
Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 23/10/2009 23:51:23
Originally by: Saint Lazarus
because Google Chrome OS is out next year and after a few releases and upgrades we just need overwhelming demand to bring back a Linux EvE that can run on it


"x" linux distribution is out next "y" and then windows will finally be beaten on the desktop market is something I've been hearing for over a decade.

Here's what google says: Google Chrome OS is being created for people who spend most of their time on the web, and is being designed to power computers ranging from small netbooks to full-size desktop systems.

Running games, fraps, video editors, etc isn't "spending most of your time on the web"



Pfft you cant compare no name companies idle threats compared to Googles, you know Google, the guys doing a pretty good job of taking over the interwebs/world.


And a Netbook OS is just the start obviously, they have this recurring habit of building on their ideas , I really dont see them stopping at just a simple Netbook based OS (considering they already created Android a handheld device OS thingymabob), and honestly do you?

Washell Olivaw
Posted - 2009.10.24 01:40:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 24/10/2009 01:49:43
Originally by: Saint Lazarus
Pfft you cant compare no name companies idle threats compared to Googles, you know Google, the guys doing a pretty good job of taking over the interwebs/world.


Meant people like you claiming it. You will not find a statement from Google saying that they're going wipe windows of the desktop market. Nor have "no name' companies like Novell or Red Hat made such claims.

Originally by: Saint Lazarus
and honestly do you?


20 years of chicken and egg. You can't sell/give away your OS unless there is a large application library for it. You won't get a large application library until your OS has a significant market share. Google Chrome OS is aimed at cloud computing and within that, at present, niche it is likely to do very well. If services like Onlive take off and perform at a satisfactory level and pricepoint, than the niche for cloudcomputing may very well become the main market. But expecting Linux, even when distributed by Google, to replace windows on your average workcomputer and home PC is an ignorant notion at best. If vista is barely able to entice XP users, why on earth would they go to Chrome OS? It would pretty much make every piece of software they own obsolete, unless they start messing with stuff like WINE.

P.S.: I know the application library for linux isn't exactly small from a home user point of view. But when dealing with specific apps within a corporation, where proper support is an issue that must be met, things get a lot tougher.

Shoukei
Caldari
Boobs Ahoy
Posted - 2009.10.24 02:19:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Shoukei on 24/10/2009 02:19:23
Next big paradigm shift is complex javascript apps that run in browser. You can already make perfectly good word, power point, excel, and other office style application, which makes a lot of sense for most larger companies. Heck, is there still someone who doesn't use web based email client, unless they have been locked in?

There is a good reason why everyone is switching to web apps, and Google plans to make the most of it. On the other hand, Microsoft is trying to prevent it every step of the way, because that means business will stop buying windows licenses for every computer.

But lets go back to the subject. XP is awesome, and win7 does not bring anything significant to the table. It should be a service pack, not new version.

Josh Silver
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2009.10.24 03:05:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Josh Silver on 24/10/2009 03:06:01
Forget DX11, just remove the Sensor Booster effect and I'm happy.
Also an option to disable the terrible eye-cancer nebulae skyboxes.

brutoid
Caldari
Posted - 2009.10.24 03:09:00 - [69]
 

Embrace DX11, use adaptive (LOD) tessellation to make a new Sensor Booster effect.

Very Happy

Saint Lazarus
Pwn 'N Play
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2009.10.24 03:49:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Washell Olivaw
Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 24/10/2009 01:49:43
Originally by: Saint Lazarus
Pfft you cant compare no name companies idle threats compared to Googles, you know Google, the guys doing a pretty good job of taking over the interwebs/world.


Meant people like you claiming it. You will not find a statement from Google saying that they're going wipe windows of the desktop market. Nor have "no name' companies like Novell or Red Hat made such claims.

Originally by: Saint Lazarus
and honestly do you?


20 years of chicken and egg. You can't sell/give away your OS unless there is a large application library for it. You won't get a large application library until your OS has a significant market share. Google Chrome OS is aimed at cloud computing and within that, at present, niche it is likely to do very well. If services like Onlive take off and perform at a satisfactory level and pricepoint, than the niche for cloudcomputing may very well become the main market. But expecting Linux, even when distributed by Google, to replace windows on your average workcomputer and home PC is an ignorant notion at best. If vista is barely able to entice XP users, why on earth would they go to Chrome OS? It would pretty much make every piece of software they own obsolete, unless they start messing with stuff like WINE.

P.S.: I know the application library for linux isn't exactly small from a home user point of view. But when dealing with specific apps within a corporation, where proper support is an issue that must be met, things get a lot tougher.



Actions speak louder than words, Googles hardly going to come out with such statements nor do they need to.



And I honestly dont get why you find it an ignorant notion when you clearly see the advantages with services like Onlive. You also admit that Linux's current application libary isnt exactly small, so your first point is moot, there isnt alot of compatibility with windows applications but there is a huge amount of applications already for Linux distributions which can only grow with the success in their attempt at netbook domination



so after success on the netbook platform why wouldnt they attempt a proper Desktop OS? because of windows only software? theres already an amazing amount of Linux alternatives for casual users or for people with specfic needs they could implement a WINElike web application (online meaning users didnt have to fiddle with it, just select a program from a list and Google keep it up to date and working) to let them run say Photoshop in a browser.

For most casual home users a much more simplified browser based OS would be a real draw if it had enough functionality because simply put its not as bloated as Windows (most people refuse to go from XP to Vista because ultimately they're the bloody same). To think they simply wouldnt bother to even try come up with solutions is as ignorant as thinking they wont attempt a takeover.


If home users could get a faster, simpler, more secure, easy to use FREE OS that could play games and had all the basic functions they needed why wouldnt they use it over windows. They could give a **** about the comparable app libarys if they had what they wanted or that the industry standard workstation continued to be Windows based. Comparing those benefits to the questionable benefit of switching to Vistas a bit silly really.




Right now the real challenge seems to be the games part because Onlive and services like it are a long way away, and even a fanboi as big as me aint gonna make the move if I cant play EvE on it Laughing But if I can see the problem so can they


Washell Olivaw
Posted - 2009.10.24 04:35:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 24/10/2009 05:04:37
Originally by: Saint Lazarus
You also admit that Linux's current application libary isnt exactly small, so your first point is moot, there isnt alot of compatibility with windows applications but there is a huge amount of applications already for Linux distributions which can only grow with the success in their attempt at netbook domination


It's not moot. My boss will not accept: "Yes, I posted that bug on the sourceforge forum. Now we'll just have to hope someone picks it up and fixes it". Do you know how few applications are properly supported for a commercial environment? And as long as people use windows at work, they'll prefer it at home.

Originally by: Saint Lazarus
If home users could get a faster, simpler, more secure, easy to use FREE OS that could play games and had all the basic functions they needed why wouldnt they use it over windows. They could give a **** about the comparable app libarys if they had what they wanted or that the industry standard workstation continued to be Windows based. Comparing those benefits to the questionable benefit of switching to Vistas a bit silly really.


The home users still using vanilla XP and IE6? Nothing is faster, simpler and easier to use than the OS you already know. Yes, chrome OS will likely be more secure, but the average home user can't distinguish real security from fake security. And while chrome OS may be free, expect half the price difference made up by MS in OEM deals, and the other half pocketed by the dealer. Leaving the average consumer paying the same.

Originally by: Shoukei
You can already make perfectly good word, power point, excel, and other office style application, which makes a lot of sense for most larger companies.


Plenty of higher management isn't comfortable with making the internet connection an even bigger umbilical cord. There are also security and legal issues with working in the cloud. E.g. when american data is on an european server, which nation's laws apply to the aspect of privacy? European laws are a lot more strict.

Khemul Zula
Amarr
Keisen Trade League
Posted - 2009.10.24 04:48:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Khemul Zula on 24/10/2009 04:51:53
Originally by: Saint Lazarus
If home users could get a faster, simpler, more secure, easy to use FREE OS that could play games and had all the basic functions they needed why wouldnt they use it over windows.
Unless it starts coming preloaded with the major PC brands, the average home user probably isn't going to bother.

Plus, looking at the way the PC market has been going for years now, I doubt those selling points would matter. For an example of how important those selling points are look at, from the point of view of reputation (not real world comparison), Windows versus MacOS. MacOS is marketed as the faster, simpler, more secure, more stable operating system (basically marketed as no viruses, no crashes, no BSOD). Windows PCs have a reputation for being slow, unreliable, buggy, virus-infested systems that are more difficult to use. And yet a rather large majority of the market still goes out and buys a PC with Windows preloaded.

Unless one of the major manfacturers defects, Microsoft isn't going to be threatened anytime soon.
I'm not knocking Google or their attempt here. I'm all for a new option as far as operating systems go. I just don't see anyone really even hurting Microsoft's hold on the market as it is at the moment. The general PC market for all its hatred and criticism of MS, doesn't really seem to want to give it up.

Shoukei
Caldari
Boobs Ahoy
Posted - 2009.10.24 07:01:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Washell Olivaw
Plenty of higher management isn't comfortable with making the internet connection an even bigger umbilical cord. There are also security and legal issues with working in the cloud. E.g. when american data is on an european server, which nation's laws apply to the aspect of privacy? European laws are a lot more strict.


Unless you noticed, companies have intranets. What gave you this silly notion that you have to use externally hosted aps instead of locally hosted ones?

With that said, your musings are entirely irrelevant Wink

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2009.10.24 07:10:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: Neamus
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 22/10/2009 16:08:20
Originally by: Shoukei
Preferably never, because i am keeping win xp no matter what microsoft does to force me into buying some new crappy os.


I agree, and im not happy with Win 7 either, even if it runs nicely. I simply loathe the new toolbar and Start menu. Progress. Bah. Stupidity I call it! Might end up going back to Win XP really. insane isnt it..




In summary:

We fear change, who stole my packet of Werther's Original and why doesn't EvE come on 1.44Mb floppy disks?



Why change anything for the change itself? many dont like it. And it is I who pays their salaries by bying their OSes. Not to mention theres no real alternative for us who dont like it. heck, they could at least make the old one optional, but nooo. So its a step back for my part. And many others I know.

its also stupid comparing an increase in number of megabytes with a software change. While the first one icnreases storage nothing else, the OS change changes the way you work. Thats a difference! For me, its like changing from working with a computer with a harddrive to working with a computer with CD storage and booting only. Stupid




Yeah, why did I ever switch from DOS to windows? DOS was perfectly functional, why change what some of us were used too. I even liked it.

**** it, where are my DOS disks. Lets see if I can get DOS back on here. Rolling Eyes

Washell Olivaw
Posted - 2009.10.24 07:24:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Shoukei
What gave you this silly notion that you have to use externally hosted aps instead of locally hosted ones?


Maybe because that is the very definition of Cloud Computing... Or this article... Or this one... Or the fact that on a network drawing the symbol for the internet is a cloud... And yes, one of the solutions is to host within the company, but that takes away most of the benefits.

Wikipedia article, fairly decent summary of pros and cons.

Danbar Roth
Amarr
Posted - 2009.10.24 07:51:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Washell Olivaw
Originally by: Shoukei
What gave you this silly notion that you have to use externally hosted aps instead of locally hosted ones?


Maybe because that is the very definition of Cloud Computing... Or this article... Or this one... Or the fact that on a network drawing the symbol for the internet is a cloud... And yes, one of the solutions is to host within the company, but that takes away most of the benefits.

Wikipedia article, fairly decent summary of pros and cons.


Someone that actually knows what he is talking about, on eve-o? Blasphemy!

One big problem with cloud computing, thin clients and general centralization is that productivity drops to 0 if and when the network goes down.
However working in a service role i would think the advantage would outweight the disadvantage due to cutting support costs drastically.

I get the sense this thread has derailed slightly...
On the topic of Dx11, the eve-in-space engine probably wont gain much from Dx11 as it isn't all that advanced, however in WIS i think it might be alot more useful.
I don't really know anything about 3d programming tho and have no idea of what kind of work would be involved in changing to Dx11.

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2009.10.24 08:18:00 - [77]
 

Look at it this way: DX9 Is safe. Its Tried and Tested and beaten to death with the Bugbludgeon of Doom. While DX10 or even, DX11 has more shinies, its simply safer to wait and see whether or not they are long term (DX10 already being cast aside like a heavily used Wii...toy). While it is fine for Non-MMO games to develop individual games on the current "best" it is smarter for MMO's to go with the more Long-Term, since if CCP had jumped and made a DX10 client months after it was out, they would have had to re-do soon thereafter for either DX11 and risk a "Deja-Vu" moment -if- DX11 failed even half as hard, or downgrade to DX9 for long term stability. YOu can probably see the nagtive effects both of these situations would hold...

Now, CCP stuck with DX9, which is still the more long term favourite (Though DX11 MAY take the stage, it is still unclear even though Windows 7 is shaping up to be the most popular and widely distributed OS since XP) and it proved overall to be a smart idea. Considering the Longevity DX10 experienced Laughing

Shoukei
Caldari
Boobs Ahoy
Posted - 2009.10.24 10:28:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Washell Olivaw
Originally by: Shoukei
What gave you this silly notion that you have to use externally hosted aps instead of locally hosted ones?


Maybe because that is the very definition of Cloud Computing... Or this article... Or this one... Or the fact that on a network drawing the symbol for the internet is a cloud... And yes, one of the solutions is to host within the company, but that takes away most of the benefits.

Wikipedia article, fairly decent summary of pros and cons.


How did we get to Cloud Computing?

If you want to retort my posts feel free. However, it is better if you don't invent a new position for me that is easier for you to retort in the process. I haven't said any of the things you take issue with. Go argue with your phantom elsewhere ugh

StealthNet
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.24 11:52:00 - [79]
 

Basically, there is only one vidcard capable of DX11 atm. Windows 7 was launched 2 days ago.

So no, no DX11 for a while. EVE will adopt it eventually, but not this year. If we get lucky, maybe sometime in 2011.

Uozi
Gallente
SUBX Missions Inc.
Posted - 2009.10.24 12:41:00 - [80]
 

DX10.1, DX11 same difference for me, only thing out of the bag that i REALLY would like to have from those two, is the support for crossfirex and sli in windowed mode. I find it rather annoying that one of my gpus is rolling its thumbs while the other one is working like a madman to keep up with gfx from 4 accounts, causing rather high heating (though it is getting winter, so that heats up my office room).
Heck i can run them in real-fullscreen wouldnt bother me, if it wasnt for the fact that when switching between the accounts my mouse pointer disappears until i move the mouse. Half a second to switch account, 2-5seconds to find the bloody damn mouse pointer :(

Washell Olivaw
Posted - 2009.10.24 12:43:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Washell Olivaw
Google Chrome OS is aimed at cloud computing and within that, at present, niche it is likely to do very well. If services like Onlive take off and perform at a satisfactory level and pricepoint, than the niche for cloudcomputing may very well become the main market.


Originally by: Shoukei
Next big paradigm shift is complex javascript apps that run in browser. You can already make perfectly good word, power point, excel, and other office style application, which makes a lot of sense for most larger companies. Heck, is there still someone who doesn't use web based email client, unless they have been locked in?

There is a good reason why everyone is switching to web apps, and Google plans to make the most of it.


Originally by: Washell Olivaw
Plenty of higher management isn't comfortable with making the internet connection an even bigger umbilical cord. There are also security and legal issues with working in the cloud. E.g. when american data is on an european server, which nation's laws apply to the aspect of privacy? European laws are a lot more strict.


Originally by: Shoukei
Unless you noticed, companies have intranets. What gave you this silly notion that you have to use externally hosted aps instead of locally hosted ones?


Originally by: Shoukei
How did we get to Cloud Computing?

If you want to retort my posts feel free. However, it is better if you don't invent a new position for me that is easier for you to retort in the process. I haven't said any of the things you take issue with. Go argue with your phantom elsewhere ugh


As you can see, we were talking about cloud computing from the first post you replied to. Java/Web apps such as google docs fall well within the scope of cloud computing. No invention was needed.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.24 13:08:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Furb Killer on 24/10/2009 13:08:26
Originally by: StealthNet
Basically, there is only one vidcard capable of DX11 atm. Windows 7 was launched 2 days ago.

So no, no DX11 for a while. EVE will adopt it eventually, but not this year. If we get lucky, maybe sometime in 2011.

HD5750, HD5770, HD5850 (mine :D), HD5870. One of us cant count, i bet it is you.


Quote:
Preferably never, because i am keeping win xp no matter what microsoft does to force me into buying some new crappy os.

I heard windows 98 runs really fast, why use bloated XP? Or even beter, 3.1. Or why not just use DOS? Hell real men game in ascii anyway.

StealthNet
Gallente
Posted - 2009.10.24 15:04:00 - [83]
 

Doh, they are all basically the same family, and all based on ATI. I have a 5870 myself. Pretty nice vidcard indeed.

What I meant was: at least two big players with DX11 hardware (nvidia any1?) It won´t take long for them (december), despite the fact they delayed their hardware a bit. Fact is, they already declared they are not that interested in DX11 so, prepare to wait.

brutoid
Caldari
Posted - 2009.10.24 15:41:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: StealthNet
Fact is, they already declared they are not that interested in DX11 so, prepare to wait.



Doh, its called 'marketing'. Downplay the competitions feature set whilst they have free reign of the market. Dont for a second think nvidia didn't want Fermi released for Win 7. DX11 will be heavily focused on when they finally have working silicon.

Washell Olivaw
Posted - 2009.10.24 17:56:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: StealthNet
Fact is, they already declared they are not that interested in DX11 so, prepare to wait.


Their line-up is DX9/10/10.1 cards, ATI's line-up is DX9/10/10.1/11 cards. It's not exactly in nVidia's best interests to tell people the benefits of DX11. Once their card hits the market, you can expect a campaign that why DX11 in itself isn't that great, their card makes it brilliant!

Shoukei
Caldari
Boobs Ahoy
Posted - 2009.10.24 19:47:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Washell Olivaw
As you can see, we were talking about cloud computing from the first post you replied to. Java/Web apps such as google docs fall well within the scope of cloud computing. No invention was needed.


If you scroll up, you will notice that my initial post does not quote yours, and that i am not suggesting cloud computing. Most people would at this point not be dishonest and not omit this minor detail. Instead, you have decided to make it look as if we were having a continuous discussion, which is entirely misleading on your part.

Keep fighting your phantom, and keep inventing positions for people you are trying to respond to. Who knows, if you do it long enough, it just might make some sense ugh

Washell Olivaw
Posted - 2009.10.24 20:51:00 - [87]
 

A quote isn't neccesary to qualify as a reply. Nor does your post make any sense unless it was a reply to mine.

Boomershoot
Caldari
Suddenly Ninjas
Posted - 2009.10.24 21:11:00 - [88]
 

every year, at some point of time, people start whining because their "uber overclocked <brand> <cpu clock> <random tech term for coolness>" is obsolote.

in about 6 months my desktop will get to the 10-years theresold, and since i bought it 9 years and 6 months ago it ran well, without any major problem (eve nthe hard drives are in good conditions after 8 years).

Now, since it's going to be obsolete (for real) in the near future, i decided to wait until USB 3.0 is implemented on motherboards and the prices start to drop (june? maybe i'll wait till next september.)

then, my computer won't be the best, but it will last (hopefully 10 more years).

That's to avoid spending money on stuff that gets minor improvements over time.







As for DX11, i couldn't care less. when (and IF) it will become as stable as DX9c we can start thinking of DX11 in EVE

Uozi
Gallente
SUBX Missions Inc.
Posted - 2009.10.24 22:56:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Saint Lazarus
And a Netbook OS is just the start obviously, they have this recurring habit of building on their ideas , I really dont see them stopping at just a simple Netbook based OS (considering they already created Android a handheld device OS thingymabob), and honestly do you?


Android has gotten quite some criticism of not living up to expectations. and google isn't doing as good a job at 'taking over the interwebs/world' as you might think, they are a big player, but their size fails in comparison to Microsofts'. Coincidently Microsoft has a handheld device os 'thingymabob' as well, and has had for a long time.

I guess I'm as skeptic as Weshell Olivaw, Linux has for a very long time been tutored to be the end of Microsoft OS domination, as soon as it was 'ready for the desktop'. Oh and the track record of software released from google isn't exactly that good. They suffer from the same problems both Microsoft and Apple does, trying to conquer the world, except with Microsoft they seem to be able to achieve it :)

disclaimer, not a microsoft fan, not a google fan, apple fan, but use all 3 companies products for everyday use.

Shoukei
Caldari
Boobs Ahoy
Posted - 2009.10.24 23:50:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Washell Olivaw
A quote isn't neccesary to qualify as a reply. Nor does your post make any sense unless it was a reply to mine.


Quote is an indicator, and my post doesn't talk about cloud hosting. Tell me, is there any kind of physical sensation associated with having an abnormally low IQ? Is there like a numbness or heaviness inside your head? Or is the affliction completely transparent to the sufferer?



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