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blankseplocked Truth about EVE's "great" GFX's?
 
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Posted - 2009.10.22 10:36:00 - [1]
 

Hello,

Is this true? c/d

Haxfar Portlaind
Posted - 2009.10.22 10:39:00 - [2]
 

Seems mostly as a "look how bad that game is, and how shiny mine is!"

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2009.10.22 10:39:00 - [3]
 

duno for sure , but i think theres something seriously wrong with lighting , the new planets glows like they were suns.

Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2009.10.22 10:59:00 - [4]
 


Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Posted - 2009.10.22 11:05:00 - [5]
 

Your Nyx is on fire.

Bonny Lee
Caldari
Starkstrom
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2009.10.22 11:08:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Bonny Lee on 22/10/2009 11:08:43
Lets look if JGE can handle a 50 man fight without lagging.
EvE isnt a Arcade-Shooter and so the gfx fits.

Zartanic
Posted - 2009.10.22 11:13:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Kuolematon
Hello,

Is this true? c/d


Work it out for yourself.

Shilling a game is so last year by the way.

Roman
THE KULT MERCENARIES
No Kings
Posted - 2009.10.22 11:20:00 - [8]
 

I don't really know what this thread is about.

But as someone who models in 3D, and does texturing, i can tell you the EVE Models are pretty low poly, and actually the textures are pretty poor. CCP does a great job using light maps and bump/normal maps to get them looking good.

If you actually spend any time inspecting the maps, they aren't really very good.


Neamus
Posted - 2009.10.22 11:21:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Neamus on 22/10/2009 11:26:04
Consider the source of the criticism, then log in to EvE on a decent PC and see that its a lie. Followed shortly be the realisation that "Tikigod" has no genitals.

The point of whether the models and textures of are a high quality or not is irrelevant, its the finished product and over all look that counts, and imo it looks pretty spiffy.

Serpents smile
Posted - 2009.10.22 11:24:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Roman
I don't really know what this thread is about.

But as someone who models in 3D, and does texturing, i can tell you...




If you indeed do then you also know that the more poly's and the higher the texture detail is, the more things will bog down.
You try rendering on your pc a 300 man fleet highly detailed (BSG like) with 2400 x 2400 maps. Now start animating that. Laughing

Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2009.10.22 11:26:00 - [11]
 

The most amazing thing there is that they have such a **** posting arrogant muppet as a community manager if you look at his recent posts they are all vitriol and bitterness.

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2009.10.22 11:29:00 - [12]
 

Coming from a guy whos game has not even been truely tested Rolling Eyes

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2009.10.22 11:34:00 - [13]
 

imo doesn't matter if it's true or not, it looks good in the end and that's all that matters to me, if they bloom the crap outta missing textures and sharp edges they got my approval as long as the end result is good.

Nyxster
Gatecrashers
Posted - 2009.10.22 11:41:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Roman
I don't really know what this thread is about.

But as someone who models in 3D, and does texturing, i can tell you the EVE Models are pretty low poly, and actually the textures are pretty poor. CCP does a great job using light maps and bump/normal maps to get them looking good.

If you actually spend any time inspecting the maps, they aren't really very good.




Thats because there is a big difference between designing and rendering a 3DS/Maya show-object and numerous instanced 3D components for a video game. XBOX/PS3's can afford to sling high-res graphics around because they have dedicated hardware routines that the coders can test, Eve was and has always been designed to allow people even with older machines and low spec graphics cards enjoy the game as much as those with 3K gigwatsupapwngrafxengines. Since Eve has a big player base in a lot of E.European and other countries, where a high end machine is like a average years wages for most government jobs, the only way you can create a "global" MMo is to accept that you have to balance playability with "shiny".

Also JGE can boast all it wants, we have yet to see a 1000+ fleet battle on a single shard take place, and I hasten to add I can think of a dozen or more games where "shiny" distracted you from how crap the underlying gameplay was, and then epic gameplay from the likes of Elite distracted you from the frankly comic lack of shinyness.

If the best encouragment a JGE "emissary" can think of why we should play it over EVE is its shinyness - then roflcopter have they got big issues ahead in player retention....


Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2009.10.22 11:52:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Verone
I'm sorry, what?

I can't...

...hear his whining...

...over the sound...

...of how ****ing awesome...

...and visually stunning...

...Eve Online...

...happens to be...

...with a good...

...set of hardware.

I also challenge him to do better...



Dear Lord this post would be epic if it wasn't for t he current implementation of the current EVE-O forums. I dont get what the OP's point is though. If it looks ****ing awesome in the end who gives a **** how you got there?

The games graphics are one of the things that got me into it in the first place. I honestly though player made videos where company release promo graphics, imagine my surprise when I found out the game looked that good all the ****ing time. Especially for someone to whom the ****y WoW graphics had always bothered.Razz

Harvey Norman
Kairos Group
Posted - 2009.10.22 12:00:00 - [16]
 

Coming from a competitor game that post is totally believable.

Losing the sarcasm, if JGE stoops down to the level of bashing other games to make theirs look better, it's quite despicable. If I was in a position to fire that guy, I sure as hell would, he gives the team an overall bad name, just looking at his posts.

It may be true or not, but to me (GTX 285) EVE on super high ultra omgwtfbbq graphics looks pretty orgasmic.

James Wilton
Posted - 2009.10.22 12:02:00 - [17]
 

I only have a one say about Jumpgate Evolution...

"I doubt they'll let you fly capital ships or anything bigger/spectacular."

Why you ask?

Imagine trying to control a carrier using your joystick or first person view... Now go figure.

Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Perditus Peregrinus
Posted - 2009.10.22 12:19:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 22/10/2009 12:19:54
I'll chime in just because I know a thing or two about the Eve graphics. I don't care about JGE and to be honest I am not posting in response to that thread.

Put simply, Eve models suck. They use a lot of shortcuts to hide low detail. Some examples are:

Simulating rounded edges with shadows (look at turrets)
Adding low-detail bump maps to create a sense of volume (see Myrmidon)
Bad culling (see Ion Siege Blaster Cannon)
Awful texture alignment (see Dominix)
Low resolution textures (see anything)
High use of environmental maps ("gloss" is very 1990s)

Ships should be more matted in space than glossy/shiny. Put simply, the ships reflect their environment with so much mirroring, that it's almost disappointing when you fly a ship up next to another ship and you can't see the approaching ship's reflection. Eve uses low resolution meshes and uses abysmal quality textures. Large ships suffer the most from it because I can count the pixels on my Moros.

The culling issue drives me crazy on some ships like the Curse and when looking at the Ion Siege Blaster where you can actually SEE THROUGH parts of the mesh. Big no-no, removes volume completely.

The effects in Eve have in my opinion gotten worse as well. Pulsating effects have been removed with more static effects in an attempt to 'busy' the eve viewing audience, ensuring quick effects that excite the senses rather than visual stimulation to create a more natural visual effect.

Lasers and blasters have had their effects done the worst. Pulse lasers look like snot now and blasters are like, 2 frames of light. It's disappointing to see a game go backwards in effects.

So far we have lost engine trails, drone trails, dynamic turret firing effects [think recoil], cyno effects, decent jump effects (the front-to-back skinning was the coolest), lasers lost their 'pew,' blasters are nigh exciting, and probably the worst of all: explosions now use static particle effects rather than physics-based particle effects.

BORING.


CCP needs to step up their graphics.

Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2009.10.22 12:20:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: James Wilton
I only have a one say about Jumpgate Evolution...

"I doubt they'll let you fly capital ships or anything bigger/spectacular."

Why you ask?

Imagine trying to control a carrier using your joystick or first person view... Now go figure.
Is it a problem that I lol'ed?Laughing

Garr Anders
Minmatar
The Red Circle Inc.
Posted - 2009.10.22 12:38:00 - [20]
 

Actually, I think the linked post is correct.

The models have a fair low detail, same as some of the textures.
In fact a highly complex BS model isnt much more complex than a simple frigate but the point is:

Resource saving

If you have each ship with x millions of polygons you'll kill every GPU in just a 10 vs 10 small gang fight. By "optimizing" the looks of the ships versus the size of the polygons and keeping a lower texture size but "hiding" it with enviromental effects, it allows a GPU to at least try to draw 400 vs 400 fleet battle fights and still look shiny.

Kazang
Wrecking Shots
Posted - 2009.10.22 12:43:00 - [21]
 

Its a question of scaling and performance.

If I game has very high detail textures and models performance will be veyr bad on low end cards with high bandwidth and memory. Whereas lighting is totally scalable and is relatively low cost in performance wise, in the sense that lighting calculations are easier for a low end card than high detail models and textures.

The textures are also quite old and re-texturing is a awful lot of work compared to tweaking lighting and shaders.

Miss Ogynist
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
Posted - 2009.10.22 12:44:00 - [22]
 

I like EVE's graphics. The ship models are fantastically done. But the nebula backgrounds need some love now. They look a bit artifacty and grainy sometimes. Also, more black space please.

Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2009.10.22 12:46:00 - [23]
 

You will find that the ships do have low poly count , so that it doesn't destroy there machine with such big fights, so the jumpgate guy is correct that they use light textures to give the appearence of nicer looking ships , which they do , but if you have jumpgate with much higher poly counts , only the people which higher end graphic card are only going to be playing this game since when you get so many ships on the screen then they will be watching a slide show.



so jumpgaate can have bigger poly models but if they have a plan to even have a remotely large fight then most people will suffer

Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Posted - 2009.10.22 12:54:00 - [24]
 

I was one of those who was waiting JGE like raising sun and then I found it it's like carebear in space ..

Sanzorz
Amarr
Mark Of Chaos
Posted - 2009.10.22 12:59:00 - [25]
 

Graphics in EVE are fine. Sure some things could need a refreshing design, but it's not utterly important. Gameplay is better than graphics and always been.

Aside from that then alot really don't care, as many in gangs or fleet battles zoom out and use the tactical overall, and you rarely tend to see alot of ship design, but rather ALOT of gunfire and explosions Twisted Evil

Warrio
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2009.10.22 13:13:00 - [26]
 

Quote:
-Tikigod-
Jumpgate Evolution Emissary

Fair and balanced.

Erinyes Nazgul
Posted - 2009.10.22 13:21:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Erinyes Nazgul on 22/10/2009 13:21:09
So when did JGE ship? Oh yeah....it hasn't. Let me know when they have a playable game so I can mock it. Rolling Eyes

Hooch Flux
Caldari
Posted - 2009.10.22 13:30:00 - [28]
 

You know, the CCP devs may have used shortcuts and whatnot to get their graphics, but it looks fine to me.

And in the end, that's all that matters.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2009.10.22 13:55:00 - [29]
 

For a game that's mostly tactical and somewhat strategic, EVE looks too good.
So what if the models are relatively low-poly, so what if the textures are relatively lowres, so what if the shining and whatnot hides all that ?
I play EVE on lowest settings for texture and shader, shadows, bloom and HDR off, and it still looks damn good.
I would totally play EVE if it had the graphic detail of the first Elite.
Heck, I would probably get more accounts since, hey, I could run dozens of instances flawlessly Twisted Evil

Zartanic
Posted - 2009.10.22 13:57:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Zartanic on 22/10/2009 13:58:47
I think the graphics in this game are very good considering the limitations they have to work to. CCP do have good graphics designers in my opinion. They do take short cuts but that is to ensure smooth gameplay which is more important. I'm sure they will continue to push the graphics as far as they can though.

EDIT: Atika, admit it, you bought EVE thinking it was Excel Online right?Very Happy


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