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blankseplocked I am fed up with all these fitting Experts, aren't you?
 
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Tagami Wasp
Caldari
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.10.21 14:17:00 - [1]
 

I see certain people come in the forums and pose as fitting experts. myself included. They are proposing fits and game content alterations base on their perceived balance, which is calculated based on all skills @ lvl 5 and then they add on top implants and boosters and blah, blah, blah...
I try to propose fits based on 0.0 fighting experience and without the use of any implants or boosters. Most combat pilots operating in 0.0 fly empty clones, cause they know that when you undock, you write off ship and pod. If you want to balance a ship, do it with an empty clone.

It is quite acceptable to consider using an all lvl 5 character as a baseline, but in order to estimate a ships potential, as far as average user is concerned, it is ridiculous to include implants and boosters and whatnot since it produces false responses.

Where those guys using implants and boosters end up is saying that if they shoot a bow while standing on one foot, blindfolded and whistling to tune "A", they will kill that Dragon with one shot.

So, guys (you know who you are) when comparing ships, stop saying stupid things like "use implant A or B cause that is the only way to fit this."


Otherwise I will keep trolling you, Liang.

Kendon Riddick
Posted - 2009.10.21 14:21:00 - [2]
 

I like this guy.

Davinel Lulinvega
Posted - 2009.10.21 14:22:00 - [3]
 

So wait are you still trolling or still being dumb?

Samaritan Azuma
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2009.10.21 14:26:00 - [4]
 

its even better when they think that their fittings are the only way to go, and any who has a different idea is an idiot.

" if you arent using (inset mod) on (insert ship) you fail!"

these ppl need a beer and a sexual encounter

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.21 14:35:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Samaritan Azuma

these ppl need a beer and a sexual encounter


Sign me up. Everyone needs that! Laughing

fivetide humidyear
Gallente
Fool Mental Junket
Posted - 2009.10.21 14:42:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Tagami Wasp


Where those guys using implants and boosters end up is saying that if they shoot a bow while standing on one foot, blindfolded and whistling to tune "A", they will kill that Dragon with one shot


Do you have a good fit for an abaddon that uses this "bow", my EFT is strangely missing it and without EFT I am lost!!11!!!!!eleventy.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2009.10.21 14:51:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: fivetide humidyear
Originally by: Tagami Wasp


Where those guys using implants and boosters end up is saying that if they shoot a bow while standing on one foot, blindfolded and whistling to tune "A", they will kill that Dragon with one shot


Do you have a good fit for an abaddon that uses this "bow", my EFT is strangely missing it and without EFT I am lost!!11!!!!!eleventy.


Just use 8x 'Ballista' Tachyon Beam Lasers for your Abbadon.

Davinel Lulinvega
Posted - 2009.10.21 14:58:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: fivetide humidyear
Originally by: Tagami Wasp


Where those guys using implants and boosters end up is saying that if they shoot a bow while standing on one foot, blindfolded and whistling to tune "A", they will kill that Dragon with one shot


Do you have a good fit for an abaddon that uses this "bow", my EFT is strangely missing it and without EFT I am lost!!11!!!!!eleventy.

[Abaddon, New Setup 1]
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Dr Fighter
Posted - 2009.10.21 14:59:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
Originally by: fivetide humidyear
Originally by: Tagami Wasp


Where those guys using implants and boosters end up is saying that if they shoot a bow while standing on one foot, blindfolded and whistling to tune "A", they will kill that Dragon with one shot


Do you have a good fit for an abaddon that uses this "bow", my EFT is strangely missing it and without EFT I am lost!!11!!!!!eleventy.

[Abaddon, New Setup 1]
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


setup needs more cowbell.

If you cant see that you fail.

xxxak
Caldari
Intergalactic Syndicate
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2009.10.21 15:10:00 - [10]
 

To OP: Yes and No.

Sometimes implants or a level V skill makes sense, because it can mean 20% more DPS or capstability or something.

So.. sometimes it is the BEST fit. I think most people know they cant always use the best fit, and I hope they know how to step down from it gracefully.

But I agree with you that overpimped fits as a baseline are pretty silly.

youveBeenBookmarked
Posted - 2009.10.21 15:34:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Samaritan Azuma
its even better when they think that their fittings are the only way to go, and any who has a different idea is an idiot.

" if you arent using (inset mod) on (insert ship) you fail!"

these ppl need a beer and a sexual encounter


Incorrect.

These people need to provide beer to their possible sexual partner. :D

Eli Porter
Posted - 2009.10.21 15:34:00 - [12]
 

All level V became a standard for fitting a long time ago. Aruging about it is rather pointless, except for some rare cases(Who the hell trains Shield Upgrades V).

As for implants, I don't see people using it as a benchmark for ship fittings, except for the 1% and 3% PG and CPU implants, which IMO is viable as many people(Yes, even in 0.0) rely on them to fit their ships, and they aren't that costly.

As for boosters, many pilots flying expensive ships carry Exiles and Blue Pills to help their tank in dire situations, but the other boosters are rarely used and should not be mentioned.

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.21 15:38:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: youveBeenBookmarked

Incorrect.

These people need to provide beer to their possible sexual partner.



Dude, your...character. You're like a space age David Bowie. Shocked

Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2009.10.21 15:39:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Tagami Wasp
Most combat pilots operating in 0.0 fly empty clones, cause they know that when you undock, you write off ship and pod. If you want to balance a ship, do it with an empty clone.


The least expensive hull flown in 0.0 is the interceptor (some BS are actually less expensive taking insurance in account), surely you can add 10% of the hull price in implants given the astounding performance gain you get from a few 3% hardwires...

Davinel Lulinvega
Posted - 2009.10.21 15:39:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Eli Porter
All level V became a standard for fitting a long time ago. Aruging about it is rather pointless, except for some rare cases(Who the hell trains Shield Upgrades V).
I did...

Gneeznow
Minmatar
Ship spinners inc
Posted - 2009.10.21 15:42:00 - [16]
 

OP's right I barely read the ships and modules forum anymore because of prolific know-it-alls like liang and astrophobic who write massive walls of tl;dr text that just make me facepalm about how far people take this videogame

actually, isnt it about time liang ragequits loudly again to the tune of about 500 posts about how fed up he is with eve and how its going

Susy Assulu
Caldari
Atomic Mexicans
Posted - 2009.10.21 15:44:00 - [17]
 

Its perfectly all right to assume the use of boosters, especially on active tanked battleships since the Strong Exile booster costs about 8mil

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.10.21 15:49:00 - [18]
 

Ignoring the fact that not all combat occurs in 0.0 and that implants can therefore be quite common, and ignoring your idea that combat boosters are somehow restricted from 0.0 (wtf?)...

... if you don't want to see people in the Ships and Modules forum debating/discussing the best way to fit Ships and what Modules to put on them, maybe you should stop reading this section of the boards.

Tagami Wasp
Caldari
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.10.21 15:53:00 - [19]
 

Hmmm, Ships and Modules. Exactly. So, can we discuss balance based only on these?

Benco97
Gallente
Terraprobe Dynamics
Posted - 2009.10.21 15:59:00 - [20]
 

I consider myself as close to an "Expert" as one can be in a particular ship class, that class being the Burst.

In my opinion it needs a boost.

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.10.21 16:00:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Terianna Eri on 21/10/2009 16:04:32
Originally by: Tagami Wasp
Hmmm, Ships and Modules. Exactly. So, can we discuss balance based only on these?

There isn't another forum section for implants. I consider implants and Boosters to be modules that go in the head instead of on the ship.

Most people, when posting a fit, will either say that it requires no implants, list what implants are required, and/or include reasonable assumptions about what might be used. A Rifter fit rarely includes implant suggestions; a trimarked Abaddon with navy EANMs or whatever might include an EHP figure with and without slaves since it's reasonable that the implants are used.

The point of posting a fit for discussion is to consider what the ship can do in its environment and discarding implants and boosters "just because" is pretty dumb if you ask me.

Oh, and by the way - some of us that DO pvp out on 0.0 don't use empty clones. +3 implants are cheap and once you're using those you might as well throw in some cheap hardwirings.

MadAtTheWorld
Posted - 2009.10.21 16:07:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Terianna Eri
Ignoring the fact that not all combat occurs in 0.0 and that implants can therefore be quite common, and ignoring your idea that combat boosters are somehow restricted from 0.0 (wtf?)...

... if you don't want to see people in the Ships and Modules forum debating/discussing the best way to fit Ships and what Modules to put on them, maybe you should stop reading this section of the boards.


this, pretty much.

Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2009.10.21 16:17:00 - [23]
 

- Imo using "all l5s" is ok. Its easier to compare performance of various ships.
- Using implants is ok too, even in 0.0, for example +3% cpu/pg is great and cheap.
- And most of shiny ships /with highend implants/ posted are for mission running, so why not use them.

Btw alot of ppl posting "fits" actually want to help others /well, some have no clue they are wrong with their fits Very Happy/, but yes, some are just trolls.

Mr Ignitious
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2009.10.21 16:21:00 - [24]
 

By this time I largely have all level 5 skills for the ships I can fly (I still use my own skill set in eft when fitting thing for myself of course). You're trying to assume everyone has the same skills as you, but this is certainly not the case. Shield upgrades 5 is an extremely useful skill for any shield tanking pilot.

Beyond that - no, not many people use pirate implants in 0.0 but i know many people fly with +3's or +4's, I'm usually using +4's myself. Low sec this changes quite a bit though, it shouldn't be to surprising to find a LG slaved pilot in low sec, with no bubbles it reduces the risk of getting podded drastically.

Your argument about boosters in every fit to be competitive is stupid. I RARELY see ANYONE bring them up in ANY ship fitting thread. You may see them mentioned with the stat increase they could give, but noone is going to rage that you aren't using boosters.

Furthermore there are best fits in eve if the thread is about a specific ship fulfilling a specific role. Frequently people will ask questions about how to fit their ship for... tackling, mission running, probing, or some other particular task. If someone asks "I want a good fit for my hyperion"... that will get them nowhere, but if they ask "I want a good fit for my hyperion, I intend to use it for running missions for the gallente navy" then you can more than likely find a fit that out performs all others for that one task.

And as above mentioned, there are a lot more forms of pvp out there than just the meandering through 0.0.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2009.10.21 16:34:00 - [25]
 

I have always been a huge fan of 3% hardwirings, and I think anyone not using them is crazy. It's like free skillpoints (even in 0.0 - which I have flown in frequently and still used implants). Tbh it looks like you're just mad because you posted an utterly ******ed suggestion and it got shot down by a "fitting expert". u mad?

If you would prefer, I can always give ehp/tank/dps for "my skills" - but as a general rule it's within 1% of max skills and usually a bit higher because I believe in hardwirings. As for pirate sets... Yeah they are expensive and I've only ever owned one. Thinking about buying a Virtue set though. :)

BTW, Gneez: <3 you make me laugh. I virtually never see you post anything I strongly disagree with - so I'm really curious what you think I'm so wrong about. I'm thinking that it has to be my complaint about Lasers vs Everything else. But, I can understand why people get all defensive there.

-Liang

NoNah
Posted - 2009.10.21 16:41:00 - [26]
 

Agreed.

Personally I think there should be cap so people can't become so called forum elite. Say... max 1 post every 5 minutes.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2009.10.21 16:54:00 - [27]
 

3% implants are what 20mil each? and for a few fits (hamdrake) they mean the difference between fitting and fitting mod.

the only places I have seen more expensive implants/boosters fit are in pve setups, faction ship setups, and on active tanks.

in pve well, you better not lose them, and +10% dps, and 3 other 5% effects for around 500mil are well worth it.

for faction ships you spent at least 500m on the hull, and likely at least that much on the mods, to add some crystals to a nightmare, or slaves to a navy mega adds a lot to the setup,

as for boosters adding blue pill on top of crystals isn't even enough tank in many situations. also the hyperion/brutix/myrm fits that are active are interesting at best, and somewhat usable in small gangs, adding exile can help in some situations, also see blue pill maelstrom.

although I often come at fitting threads with the lowsec pirate in mind.

Tagami Wasp
Caldari
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2009.10.21 17:05:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Tagami Wasp on 21/10/2009 17:14:57
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I have always been a huge fan of 3% hardwirings, and I think anyone not using them is crazy. It's like free skillpoints (even in 0.0 - which I have flown in frequently and still used implants). Tbh it looks like you're just mad because you posted an utterly ******ed suggestion and it got shot down by a "fitting expert". u mad?

If you would prefer, I can always give ehp/tank/dps for "my skills" - but as a general rule it's within 1% of max skills and usually a bit higher because I believe in hardwirings. As for pirate sets... Yeah they are expensive and I've only ever owned one. Thinking about buying a Virtue set though. :)

BTW, Gneez: <3 you make me laugh. I virtually never see you post anything I strongly disagree with - so I'm really curious what you think I'm so wrong about. I'm thinking that it has to be my complaint about Lasers vs Everything else. But, I can understand why people get all defensive there.

-Liang


Goon much? Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy peeved huh?

Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Tagami Wasp
Goon much? Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy peeved huh?

Are you even trying? Confused


Nope. Smile

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2009.10.21 17:07:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Tagami Wasp
Goon much? Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy peeved huh?

Are you even trying? Confused

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2009.10.21 17:11:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Tagami Wasp


Goon much? Very HappyVery HappyVery Happy peeved huh?


I think that was sort of the opposite of a peeved response... even had a little heart symbol and everything.


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